"throwing" a record

[imstr8trippin]

I use ghetto tables: stanton str8-30s. when starting off a track that i'm cueing, i am usually off a very slight amount due to the push i have to give the record to get it up to speed with the other live record. this is because when putting any amount of pressue on my tables, the platter slows down. str8-30s torque is a joke. i think my inconsistency comes from the fact that i need to give it that push, which must be perfect to get the beats matched. so, my question is will getting tables with more torque (i.e. 1200s) make this task easier. or, will i have the same problem that just takes practice to correct?

[Ohashi]

yes.

[tylerhollyfield]

no no no no no

[DJStickey]

No, it's in two things: your torque, and your slipmats. If there isn't enough torque, then you'll have to correct. If there's enough torque, but too much friction between the slipmat and the platter, then you'll have to correct. The only way to get a completely seamless record release is with some really slick slipmats (for example Butter Rugs) and use them on a table that has 2.0+kg of torque.

[Dave T]

I agree with Stickey,

The third variable is lots of practice!!!

[Sigma]

This thread is the exact reason why I tell people not to buy cheap decks and "DJ in a box" setups. My mate bought some Technics decks years ago that were direct drive, although they weren't 1200s. He had to give the records a push when he brought them into the mix and over time he got used to it and became pretty good at mixing. Problem was when he upgraded, he was so used to giving the records a push that it took him quite a while to break the habit.

[Jonah Brotman]

i've noticed that a quick fix for some slipmat problems is a piece of wax paper under the mat (comprable to the plastic film sheets that come with tech mats)....just outline your mats on wax paper and cut 'em out......it helps more than you would think.

a buddy of mine had some crappy numarks and when i put some wax paper under his mats he couldn't believe the difference.

also....if you have never had the chance to play on techs before...start saving.....the difference in torque is ridiculous. (the only comparison ive had is that same friend's crappy numarks....i had my tables for a while before i ever tried his and i finally realized the difference that everyone talks about)

[Sigma]

also....if you have never had the chance to play on techs before...start saving.....the difference in torque is ridiculous.

If you own Techs, then have a play on the TTX or any of the other high end decks cos the difference in torque is also ridiculous. Some other brands have 3 times the torque of 1200s.

[denno]

Originally Posted by Sigma

If you own Techs, then have a play on the TTX or any of the other high end decks cos the difference in torque is also ridiculous. Some other brands have 3 times the torque of 1200s.

yeah I use TTXs and whenever I am checking out vinyls in the store on their 1200s I am shocked by the lack of torque..

speaking of which.. TTX is variable torque, but I havent got a clue how to change it.. sucks ass that

[mostapha]

I honestly think that slipmats make more of a difference than the torque with the high-torque decks.

T.120 with bad slipmats < 1210mk2 with good slipmats. Maybe not if you're into heavy scratching scratching or are heavy-handed, but everything I do works at least as well or better on the Techs. And they have other things I like...mostly the feel of the decks. I could probably use either with equal effectiveness, but I don't really need anything "advanced" other than maybe a key lock. I could totally dig a table like the Stantons/Numarks with Key Lock that adjusted key independent of tempo, and they might be worth a hit in wow&flutter and feel. I'll upgrade from my Technics when something like that comes out, as long as they do it well and put a precise motor in it.

I haven't used a TTX or PDX.

Also, being able to change a target light w/o opening the deck would be cool, along with removeable cables. Why Technics hasn't done this confounds me...unless they think that making money off of Service Calls is that important.

[imstr8trippin]

Originally Posted by Sigma

This thread is the exact reason why I tell people not to buy cheap decks and "DJ in a box" setups.

ya...i'm wishing that i had just bought the 1200s. my reasoning for going cheap was that i just wanted to try it out. now, i'm thinking that i should have just bought the 1200s, and if i didn't like spinning records, i could just have sold them and most likely gotten all of my money back. oh well..............

Originally Posted by Jonah

a buddy of mine had some crappy numarks and when i put some wax paper under his mats he couldn't believe the difference.

did the wax paper trick. it helps a lot. however, i still get some lag no matter how delicate i am.

thanks for the replies, everyone.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by mostapha

I could probably use either with equal effectiveness, but I don't really need anything "advanced" other than maybe a key lock. I could totally dig a table like the Stantons/Numarks with Key Lock that adjusted key independent of tempo, and they might be worth a hit in wow&flutter and feel. I'll upgrade from my Technics when something like that comes out, as long as they do it well and put a precise motor in it.

There's nothing wrong with the motor in either the TTX or the Stanton STR8-150. I dunno if you read the review of the STR8-150 and other OEM decks someone posted up in the turntable section, but under the platter are optical sensors that make sure the rotational speed is perfectly accurate. As for feel, well if you've ever tried a Stanton you would know it feels built like a tank. If you get used to one deck then others are bound to feel different at first.

Also, being able to change a target light w/o opening the deck would be cool, along with removeable cables. Why Technics hasn't done this confounds me...unless they think that making money off of Service Calls is that important.

It's simple - they don't need to. Some people will blindly buy Technics without ever considering other turntables. As I said once before - Technics are by far the least innovative of the DJ gear manufacturers. They rely on reputation.

[Jonah Brotman]

Originally Posted by Sigma

If you own Techs, then have a play on the TTX or any of the other high end decks cos the difference in torque is also ridiculous. Some other brands have 3 times the torque of 1200s.

i believe it....but i've never played on TTXs or other super high torque tables...so i could only really comment on the technics.

[białystok]

They rely on reputation

And performance. Nobody would buy them if they stunk. Fact is you get a lot more features with other brands though. Sonically speaking I think the Technics are tops (don't quote me on this). I FINALLY got to play with a st-150 and I actually liked it a lot. Trying to pitch bend will rub the skin off your fingers but I liked how solid it felt. Ton of cash too. They are definitely nice turntables.

[Sigma]

Ton of cash too.

In the UK the 1200 MK2 is actually about £15 more expensive than either the STR8-150 or the ST-150.

Seriously, you American guys would be shocked if you knew how much we paid over here in the UK for a single turntable. I'll convert some prices for you using the current exchange rate: -

Numark TT-500 - $353
Numark TTX - $505
Vestax PDX-2000 MK2 - $583
Stanton ST-150/STR8-150 - $594
Technics SL-1200 MK2 - $619
Technics SL-1200 MK5G - $843

[białystok]

HOLY JESUS - that is incredible!!!!

I had no clue....

Technics SL-1200 MK5G - $843

That is absurd....

[Sigma]

Bad isn't it? It's the same for everything else DJ related too. If I was buying a complete setup, it would literally be cheaper to buy a plane ticket to New York and get the stuff there. lol.

Vinyl is pricey too. Taking Scenario Records as an example, a US 12" will cost £6.99 which is $12.40. UK releases are only about £1 cheaper unless it's the mainstream stuff you get in the larger stores, then you might pay £2.99 or £3.99.

[The Judge]

Originally Posted by Sigma

Bad isn't it? It's the same for everything else DJ related too. If I was buying a complete setup, it would literally be cheaper to buy a plane ticket to New York and get the stuff there. lol.

Vinyl is pricey too. Taking Scenario Records as an example, a US 12" will cost £6.99 which is $12.40. UK releases are only about £1 cheaper unless it's the mainstream stuff you get in the larger stores, then you might pay £2.99 or £3.99.

Lol yeah. We're screwed right up the backside aren't we?

[Mr.Pink]

hey sima i found a street in my city called sigma ave.

[Ray403]

ughhhh... I remember using STR8-30s, they have less torque than belt drives...

[Burger Daddy]

How is the key correction on the ST 150? Does it significantly cause any hiccups in the sound like the CDJs or the Pitch effect on the DJM?

[mostapha]

Originally Posted by Sigma

There's nothing wrong with the motor in either the TTX or the Stanton STR8-150. I dunno if you read the review of the STR8-150 and other OEM decks someone posted up in the turntable section, but under the platter are optical sensors that make sure the rotational speed is perfectly accurate. As for feel, well if you've ever tried a Stanton you would know it feels built like a tank. If you get used to one deck then others are bound to feel different at first.


It's simple - they don't need to. Some people will blindly buy Technics without ever considering other turntables. As I said once before - Technics are by far the least innovative of the DJ gear manufacturers. They rely on reputation.

Actually, before I started spinning...I was just like "ooh, DJs...they're inherantly cool." One of my friends in HS got really into d&b/hardcore and bought an ST-150 with the intention of learning to DJ. I don't think he ever actually did, because he was very ADD with his hobbies and his money.

I was convinced that they were the best things EVER. A couple years later, when I finally decided to get into DJing, I was all set to buy a pair before I even heard of Technics. I played with some in a store and they felt pretty good, but nothing like the Technics. There's just something about the way they feel that I really like.

Also, even though I'd rather play well than look good if I had to choose one, the TTX and new Stantons look like toys. The Vestaxes are cool, but don't really have the feel that I like from the Techs.

Also, I have to say that I've found some damn-good deals on Technics. My first pair were $500 and the m5g was $350, all were used, and none have had any major problems. I used one deck needing cable replacement as an excuse to buy the m5g, but it would take 10 minutes to fix. I'll probably do that, sell the mk2s for (probably) more than I paid for them (they were part of a "package" deal), and buy another m5g. If I could find st-150s or the like for a similar price, then maybe I'd consider it.

I don't need the torque. I don't really need the key lock. And I don't need the fact that my decks feel cheaper than they could be for less money, even if it is purely my own touch that detects it.

If I were scratching heavily, I'd probably go buy higher torque and wider pitch tables, but I really don't think I need them. And Used Technics are just cheaper over here. Who would choose a new Toyota over a gently used Mercedes? Assuming of course that you could find a toyota with some specific specs that were better than a specific mercedes's specs that would make this comparison possible. Maybe comparing a top-end Celica to a C230 Coupe.

They're kinda close in price range (when comparing new to used, especially) and the Celica can be made to be much faster (though may not be stock, i honestly don't remember).

But, it's front wheel drive as opposed to rear, and just doesn't feel like a nice, solid, German car. It's still quality, just different quality, because of different priorities. That's all that's different between the top-level decks: priorities.

[DJ Unicron]

I guess it isn't too bad for beginners to start on low-end drives, as long as they aren't cheap-ass shit!
Don't get into trying if you want to put in under 500 euro (converted $590). Belt drive or table below 1.0kg/cm are just no good!
Anything higher will work, if you start out with a 4kg/cm or higher table, you'll get spoiled! (and you might not be able to work on Techs as well!)
I personally took my first steps on a Numark TT02. (something like the TT500 with the tech's level of torque, simullar to the Ion TT03 (Ion is owned by Numark). After using those, my Reloop 4000's at home felt weak... And it's only a 0.6kg/cm differance.
Table with low flutter / wow are also acceptable, you'll have to become better at pitchbending as well.

If I will ever be able to cough up 900 euro (yeah, that's the price of a Tech 1210 M5G-3d incl. slipmat in the Netherlands) or 1050 euro ($1239) for a Pio 1000mk2, I'll still use my other tables as well, just not to become brand dependant.

[Mayhew]

Originally Posted by Sigma

In the UK the 1200 MK2 is actually about £15 more expensive than either the STR8-150 or the ST-150.

Seriously, you American guys would be shocked if you knew how much we paid over here in the UK for a single turntable. I'll convert some prices for you using the current exchange rate: -

Numark TT-500 - $353
Numark TTX - $505
Vestax PDX-2000 MK2 - $583
Stanton ST-150/STR8-150 - $594
Technics SL-1200 MK2 - $619
Technics SL-1200 MK5G - $843

It's the same way in Canada. We do have some stuff cheaper up here, but tech's are even more expensive.

[AgentSanchez]

I had a chance to mix on some Stantons last week - STR8-150s I believe. I found them to be serviceable and the torque was nice, but I don't know. The FEEL just wasn't there - coming from using 1200s exclusively, the Stanton tables felt crude.