How is that relevant to the OP?Originally Posted by Blueprint
He wants to run programs for production, Ableton is very different from Serato.
How is that relevant to the OP?
He wants to run programs for production, Ableton is very different from Serato.
check local CL ads for apple fanboys ditching their brand new 2011s for the new retina model. i got picked a brand new 15" hi-res display, 128gb ssd, 8gb ram, 2.0 i7 with 3 year apple care for $1300 the week the retina model came out. this thing was $3000 a month ago lol...there's probably some cheaper ones out now as well
Fixed. Aftermarket (OWC, OCZ) SSDs are less expensive and perform better.
The SSD isn't upgradeable right now but all they did was tweak the connector. OWC is working on aftermarket upgrades for it in line with what they offer for the just disconinued Airs.
Agreed. It's atrocious.
Here are Geek Bench scores for the computers I'm considering (eventually) with the prices as I'd buy them, sorted by price.
My personal early 2011 13" MBP (120 GB SSD; 4GB ram; i5): 5967 (my score is lower than geekbench reports probably because I didn't close everything that was running in the background…things like Alfred, a few sound card hardware agents from NI and M-Audio, etc.)
My personal early 2011 13" MBP (i5): 5967 for about $1800 when I bought it.
Mid 2012 11" Air (i7): 6907 for about $1400
Mid 2012 13" Air (i7): 6861 for about $1700
No Film School Hackintosh (quad-core i7): 9880 for about $1700
Mid 2012 13" MBP (i7): 7841 for about $1800
current 21.5" iMac (quad i7): 10096 for about $2100
current 27" iMac (quad i7): 11477 for about $2700
Mid 2012 15" MBP (good i7): 12281 for about $2900
Retina MBP (i7): 11870 for about $3300
Some of those prices include aftermarket RAM upgrades to 16GB (2x8GB chips) if the computer can be upgraded. Same with aftermarket SSDs. My build for the hackintosh is more expensive than his because of the SSD I'd use. It likely wouldn't change the geekbench score much, but if it works with the build, it does about 750 MB/s reads and writes…not Mb/s.
Considering the scores and warranties, I don't think the hackintosh is really worth it unless you really need PCIe devices. And unless they update the Mac Pro line, I doubt that's going to change any time soon. They just can't run the current top-end processors and motherboards unless Apple refreshes that line……at least, that's the way I understand it.
Frankly…once I get a sound card both for my DVS and production that I know will work with USB 3.0 or I find out how well the upcoming Thunderbolt docking stations and/or TB Firewire adapters work……I'll be seriously considring an 11" Air as my next computer. I've wanted a smaller computer since the first time I "upgraded" from a 12" screen to a 15" screen and hated ever minute of using it.
BTW, for reference, my score of just under 6000 is perfectly fine for any DVS (used SSL) or controller DJing (used TP2 and Ableton Live) and will easily host a lot of stuff in Maschine (more than a group worth of samples + several instruments + ~30-40 analog modeling EQ plugins + compressors or channel strips…and meters…transient controllers, etc.) and a reasonable Pro Tools session (60+ tracks; channel strips; effects; lots of analog modeling EQs and gain stages…though I can't–for example–run something like Waves NLS or Slate VCC on every single channel without jacking my latency up to 1024 samples when running at 96k). And for a more reasonable tracking/composing session, it'll run Maschine or Pro Tools at 64 or 128 samples with reasonable plugins (not the analog modeling stuff).
Frankly, if your stuff will work with USB 3.0, I think the Air is a perfectly viable computer now.
I know of at least one guy who uses a 2011 13" Air ans a RME USB card for mobile recording with Pro Tools…including 24-30 channels in, plus 5 monitor groups, plus channel strips at 128 samples for hours at a time.
It's kind of ridiculous how good they've gotten. And I'm seriously considering the marginal upgrade to an 11" Air just for the smaller, higher-resolution screen……I'm just waiting for the docking stations to come out (and be reviewed) and to see what I'm going to have to spend on new audio interfaces (or thunderbolt adapters) and DVS to get it to work on USB 3.0 (please, oh please, let the TS A6 package work with it…it's so cheap).
Last edited by mostapha; 06-22-2012 at 03:14 PM.
Great information mostapha. As far as using DVS, i do have traktor, i just didn't put it in the OP, because i didn't think the new airs would have a problem running it. Are the DVS's coming out with a USB 3.0 connection?
I think the 13" Air with 8gb ram and i7 processor would be great for Ableton or Logic, Ableton does say to have 1.8GHz and the 13" Air i7 has 2.0GHz, does that make a difference?
i think they also changed the form factor.
from this link:
http://ifixit.org/2753/macbook-pro-w...play-teardown/
I'm not saying that the vendors wont make replaceable hardware for it though. just found the above article interesting.
but to be clear, i think a 15in retina would be more than fine to run Ableton with VST's for a while.
Last edited by xyloft; 06-24-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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I'm sure they will eventually. No idea on a time frame.
According to the NI forums, there are some people having luck loading 10.7.3 (as opposed to 10.7.4) on their new Airs and Pros with USB 3.0 and having things work. My guess is that the chipset they use is partially reverse compatible……but only gives performance good enough to run audio interfaces when you run the wrong driver and the system thinks it's a 2.0 chipset.
Rolling it back to 10.7.3, however, isn't trivial. And it's one of those things that you'd have to do at home after you bought it. Definitely something I'd try though. I'm still on 10.7.3…didn't know 4 came out anyway. Apparently Avid qualified it while I wasn't paying attention. I should look into that at some point.
I'm sure it does to some degree. But, uhh…here's the actual information from the Ableton website: 1.8 GHz G4/G5 or faster (Intel® Mac recommended), 2 GB RAM (4 GB recommended, if supported by your computer), Mac OS X 10.4.11 (10.5 or later recommended), DVD-ROM drive.
I think the Air is okay. The last time Apple put G5s in computers was in like 2005. Clock speed isn't everything; not by a long shot.
From, OWC: Yeah… that kind of limits our upgrade options. As of this minute (about 3:45 CDT, 6/12/12), no, there aren’t any upgrades available for the MacBook Pro w/ Retina Display. That said, though, we’re working on it. The Retina MBP’s SSD, though shorter and wider, looks to have the same connection as the SSD inside the 2012 MacBook Air. Whether we’ll come up with a special Aura Express for each model, or whether we develop a “unified” SSD we have yet to determine, but our Development team is on it like cat hair on dress pants. "
Love the imagery at the end (mostly because I love cats) but you might be right. Whatever. Aftermarket upgrades will be available eventually.
The funny thing is that, as I stated above (or at least gave the information for), the normal 15-inch MBP is a better computer for less money. As it always seems (at least for me), it's a choice between a good display and a good computer…before it was because matte displays aren't available on the 11" and 13" models and anything bigger isn't (in my eyes) a laptop. That's still true, but now there's yet another display option……that still isn't available as a matte display. Currently, it's the size I want vs. having a second internal SSD…since I've given up with getting a legit screen resolution in a laptop this decade without spending out the ass and hating every minute I use it because it's too damn big.
So…I don't care. The Retina MBP doesn't appeal to me in any way. It's not even the thing about soldered ram or waiting for SSD upgrades……I just think it's a shit computer for the money with one good feature that will hopefully trickle down to the real ones.
Then again…I'm still hoping for an 11" MBP before I break down and buy an Air. Personally, I don't care if the thing's an inch thick…I just want the smaller screen.
Last edited by mostapha; 06-24-2012 at 08:39 PM.
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