dB Technologies FlexSys F315... Alternative to the JBL PRX635?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Are you serious Bill? Splaying two cabs with horizontal dispersion wider than 70 degrees is a no no because of serious comb filtering, most decent nightclubs who've got decent sound systems use cabs with about 60 x 40 degree dispersion or even less and then splay them to get better sound coverage with less comb filtering.

Where did I say anything about splaying? That's one recommendation I'll never make. Those who do splay cabs only do so because they don't know any better.

[richard stringer]

You said :

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice
If anything for average clubs even 90 degree dispersion isn't wide enough.

Most nightclubs i've ever been to don't have one speaker per side, they normally either have at least two or three per side, so I figured you meant splay 90 degree cabs. I personally hate 90 degree cabs, if I had the money to choose whatever cabs I wanted i'd never use another 90 degree cab ever again but unfortunately I don't have that much money anymore so I have to go with the loudest cab I can afford, and at the moment, with the mid/highs i've got, that was 90 degree cabs. I wouldn't splay cabs with any wider horizontal dispersion than 60 degrees, and even then it'd be a maximum of two cabs per side.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I wouldn't splay cabs with any wider horizontal dispersion than 60 degrees, and even then it'd be a maximum of two cabs per side.

I never splay them, combing and reduction of midrange dispersion is unavoidable no matter what the HF dispersion angle. If vertical spiral stacking is impossible then cabs should be cross-fired. It's not as good as a vertical spiral, but better than either straight out or splayed.

http://homepage.mac.com/randyhyde/we...udioStuff.html

[richard stringer]

Thanks for linking to that Bill, that's interesting to see the differences. Cross firing speaker cabinets though would look very odd and actually make it look like the person doing the event doesn't know what they're doing.

[jayhwk]

Thanks for linking to that Bill, that's interesting to see the differences. Cross firing speaker cabinets though would look very odd and actually make it look like the person doing the event doesn't know what they're doing.

Just to let you know, there are a lot of alternate viewpoints on that article and the technique:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index....,120127.0.html

Specifically, take a look at Jack Arnott and Brad Weber's posts.

Also, http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index....c,5554.20.html includes a grilling of the above article's author.

I'm not sure if I have a horse in this game (yet) - I've seen good results with an array of crossfired horns and separate low frequency elements in an install situation where there was no room to do anything else, but I'd like to buy a pair of SRX712's and actually measure in an anechoic chamber what the article is simulating, as well as do some more modeling in EASE instead of GPA.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Thanks for linking to that Bill, that's interesting to see the differences. Cross firing speaker cabinets though would look very odd and actually make it look like the person doing the event doesn't know what they're doing.

That's part of the reason why trap cabs intended for splaying came about. Consumers/operators in the 70s assumed that the dispersion characteristics of speakers were the same as those of lights. They insisted on splaying cabs because it looked 'right' based on that mistaken assumption. The better speaker manufacturers knew better, but gave the consumers what they wanted anyway. Business is business, after all. The other manufacturers followed suit. A good history of the evolution of cab design, and the eventual repudiation of the splayed/cluster array, is found here and in the follow up chapters:
http://www.gtaust.com/filter/05/07.shtml

As for cross-firing, it's now used widely in the midrange elements of three way line arrays, with forward facing woofers outboard of cross-fired mids outboard of a central tweeter array.

[richard stringer]

Bennett Prescott says : "I don't even know where to start.

This "cross firing" technique will result in HF reflections, uneven coverage, unbalanced frequency response, and increased lobing".

Bennett Prescott is a top industry professional sound engineer, if that's what he says then I trust his word. All the top guys say bad things about cross-firing point source speaker cabs.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Bennett Prescott says : "I don't even know where to start.

This "cross firing" technique will result in HF reflections, uneven coverage, unbalanced frequency response, and increased lobing".

Bennett Prescott is a top industry professional sound engineer, if that's what he says then I trust his word. All the top guys say bad things about cross-firing point source speaker cabs.

The strings on my bass are older than Bennett Prescott. He's not an engineer, he's a salesman; the extent of his engineering 'expertise' is to copy and paste marketing snippets from other sources. He and the other elitist gear snobs like him who populate PSW are the reasons why I have never been a member there, and never will be.

[Evil Steve]

The strings on my bass are older than Bennett Prescott. He's not an engineer, he's a salesman; the extent of his engineering 'expertise' is to copy and paste marketing snippets from other sources. He and the other elitist gear snobs like him who populate PSW are the reasons why I have never been a member there, and never will be.

He is a good salesman, though...

As far as PSW, never have I seen such a group of prima donnas. Like any internet forum, it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. Guaranteed, if Tom Danley doesn't advise cross-firing cabinets, you can bet your bottom dollar nobody at PSW will think it's a good idea.
I have no idea whether it's a good idea to cross-fire cabinets or not. My belief is to get a loud enough speaker to do the job properly with one per side. If a crowd is so big I can't do it with one a side, I'm paying a professional to load, unload, set up, tune... I'm bringing a mixer, decks and mic.
Any time I've tried to array loudspeakers, horizontally or vertically, it's sounded like crud somewhere in the room. Usually where I'm standing. I'm sure there are cabinets out there that will work, but I don't want to own them, store them, carry them, load them in my vehicle, own or drive a vehicle of the size required to transport them, rent them, set them up, tune them... That's for bigger fish than me.

[richard stringer]

The strings on my bass are older than Bennett Prescott. He's not an engineer, he's a salesman; the extent of his engineering 'expertise' is to copy and paste marketing snippets from other sources. He and the other elitist gear snobs like him who populate PSW are the reasons why I have never been a member there, and never will be.

Bennett Prescott may be a salesman, but he's also a sound engineer matey, he's got extensive knowledge of live sound and not just in the sales area, he works for the legendary B&C company, have a look here :

http://www.linkedin.com/in/bennettprescott

Sorry Bill, but who are you to slag him off? And i'm not being horrible Bill, but maybe you don't get on with those guys because they disagree with your ideas. The guys on ProSoundWeb are industry professionals, some work for loudspeaker manufacturing companies and most are live sound engineers.