Buying a crossover soon, need help with choosing one

[Coronaoperator]

If your going to setup like the top picture in a long and skinny bar to carry the sound then delay the speakers as shown in the diagram about 1ms per foot away from the first set. You use the delay to prevent echo's and reverb, not comb filtering.

The second picture is if you have the 4 speakers all facing into the dancefloor, then no delay is needed.

If your using subs and tops you need a crossover anyways. A limiter included in the dsp will also protect your speakers from DJ's abusing and possibly damaging them.

The dbx driverack pa + has an auto EQ fuction to help EQ your room. Works well on the mids and highs. The lows still need fine tuning by hand. Its a good unit but pricey.

The dcx2496 has parametic eq's, but no auto-eq function so you have to tune your system yourself. Its a good unit as well.

At our venue we use a dbx260 and the behringer dcx2496. We have 4 speakers into the dance floor like the second picture with no delay. Further back (65 feet from the mains) we have speakers for fill like in the 1st picture with delay added. It sounds like a DJ not beatmatching on the mix without the delay.

[akillj]

If your going to setup like the top picture in a long and skinny bar to carry the sound then delay the speakers as shown in the diagram about 1ms per foot away from the first set. You use the delay to prevent echo's and reverb, not comb filtering.

The second picture is if you have the 4 speakers all facing into the dancefloor, then no delay is needed.

If your using subs and tops you need a crossover anyways. A limiter included in the dsp will also protect your speakers from DJ's abusing and possibly damaging them.

The dbx driverack pa + has an auto EQ fuction to help EQ your room. Works well on the mids and highs. The lows still need fine tuning by hand. Its a good unit but pricey.

The dcx2496 has parametic eq's, but no auto-eq function so you have to tune your system yourself. Its a good unit as well.

At our venue we use a dbx260 and the behringer dcx2496. We have 4 speakers into the dance floor like the second picture with no delay. Further back (65 feet from the mains) we have speakers for fill like in the 1st picture with delay added. It sounds like a DJ not beatmatching on the mix without the delay.

Sorry for the confusion on my part, thank you for clearing that up. Very informational, much appreciated. +rep

[Evil Steve]

coronaoperator
Thanks for clarifying. A picture is worth a thousand words. You said exactly what I wanted to say when I had no time.
Akillj
The diagrams give you a better idea of what's happening in different situations.
Please notice that the speakers are not close together. When you place two speakers close together and point them in the same direction, and when those speakers are reproducing the same frequency band, you are going to get trouble.
There are people on this forum who will tell you it never happens. There are people on this forum who will tell you the audience can't hear it. There are people everywhere on the internet who haven't got a clue what they're talking about, but send out their flawed opinion like it's pure fact.
There are other people who won't go out and check whether these opinions are truly facts. I find this frustrating. I don't want you to be one of those people.

Please forgive the sarcasm in my last post. I got a little frustrated when I saw someone who clearly doesn't know what he's talking about (at least in this case) state an opinion like it was a fact. I got further frustrated when you gave the impression that you agreed with this. In my opinion, "I completely agree" as posted in your response to sss18734, means you completely agree that "It's not really a big issue with non-bass frequencies. Nothing that the audience would notice, anyway.." For the record, I completely disagree with that opinion. My post was to encourage you to find the truth from an alternate source. Again, I'm pressed for time to find a link. Again, please forgive me. Nevertheless, I strongly encourage you to find some factual information on sound artifacts like comb filtering. I would also encourage you to try to find information on how to deploy a PA system properly, depending on the room size, and the intended audience. There's no harm in finding solid information, then making your decisions based on that info. Manufacturers like Rane, Electrovoice, JBL, Klipsch, Yamaha, and many others have very informative articles right on their websites. It may require you to invest some time in your own education, but that's not a bad thing -- in my opinion.

[Incognito]

If your going to setup like the top picture in a long and skinny bar to carry the sound then delay the speakers as shown in the diagram about 1ms per foot away from the first set. You use the delay to prevent echo's and reverb, not comb filtering.

The second picture is if you have the 4 speakers all facing into the dancefloor, then no delay is needed.

If your using subs and tops you need a crossover anyways. A limiter included in the dsp will also protect your speakers from DJ's abusing and possibly damaging them.

The dbx driverack pa + has an auto EQ fuction to help EQ your room. Works well on the mids and highs. The lows still need fine tuning by hand. Its a good unit but pricey.

The dcx2496 has parametic eq's, but no auto-eq function so you have to tune your system yourself. Its a good unit as well.

At our venue we use a dbx260 and the behringer dcx2496. We have 4 speakers into the dance floor like the second picture with no delay. Further back (65 feet from the mains) we have speakers for fill like in the 1st picture with delay added. It sounds like a DJ not beatmatching on the mix without the delay.

[sss18734]

When you place two speakers close together and point them in the same direction, and when those speakers are reproducing the same frequency band, you are going to get trouble. Again, please forgive me. Nevertheless, I strongly encourage you to find some factual information on sound artifacts like comb filtering. I would also encourage you to try to find information on how to deploy a PA system properly, depending on the room size, and the intended audience. There's no harm in finding solid information, then making your decisions based on that info. It may require you to invest some time in your own education, but that's not a bad thing -- in my opinion.

I think you're getting much too upset. He's running a very basic PA, not a line array. Running a pair of mains per side is something we do fairly often with no issues whatsoever, with minimal processing. I'd rather see him use a single pair of mains, but what he's trying to do is perfectly fine for a slight boost in output. For what it's worth, most SOBER people can't even tell the difference between a 128 kbps mp3 and a FLAC file... Let alone comb filtering.

With the amount of passive aggressiveness and sarcasm in your posts, it almost sounds like you're predicting that his setup is going to sound like a scratch-your-nails-on-a-chalkboard orchestra.

[Evil Steve]

I'm not exactly sure how to apologize properly to you for my sarcasm. Apparently saying "I apologize" is not adequate... Please let me know what it will take to adequately prove how sorry I am.
I'm not particularly upset.
When you say that using the wrong tool for a job is something "we" do often. I'm not really sure who "we" are.

I guess, by nature I'm a pretty sarcastic person.

I'll try to write the next bit without sarcasm.
I'm saying any improperly deployed system sounds bad.
I'm saying the OP should do some research on how to deploy his system the best way possible, considering he's using the wrong tool for the job.
In a previous thread, I (and others) tried to counsel purchasing the proper tool for the job. Advice not taken.
Now I'm trying to counsel that the OP do research to find how to make the best of a self-inflicted bad situation.

If you think you know everything about how to deploy a system, by all means, spoon-feed the info. If you think that the problems that come from a poorly selected, poorly deployed PA system are inconsequential, that's your opinion, and you are welcome to it.

As far as my passive aggressive behavior... Please don't try to psychoanalyze me. I doubt you know any more about psychoanalysis than you do about sound.
If my post seems to you to be passive aggressive, I've already apologized. Since we are typing, I'm not sure how you can properly analyze tone. I'm not going to go away mad, here. Nevertheless, I am going to go away from this thread. I think I've said all I need to say.

Cheers
Evil

[sss18734]

I'm saying any improperly deployed system sounds bad.
I'm saying the OP should do some research on how to deploy his system the best way possible, considering he's using the wrong tool for the job.

While you may have a golden ear, the vast majority of people do not. And while it would be nice to custom-optimize every element for every performance, doing so is time consuming and unnecessary - especially on the small scale we're talking about here.

Let's not kid ourselves - this is not professional grade gear that we're talking about, and the focus on DJ-quality gear is not audiophile in nature by any stretch. Less-than perfect audio quality (albeit still perfectly fine for the audiences it is meant for) for the sake of simplicity is worth it in the mobile DJ industry.

And I think when he said "I totally agree," he was referring to having 4 tops vs 2.

[akillj]

And I think when he said "I totally agree," he was referring to having 4 tops vs 2.

Yes that's what I was referencing.

Anyway thanks both of you, sss18734 and Evil Steve for contributing to this thread.

I don't have much else to say

[akillj]

Sorry for posting again, but I come back and realize my original question wasn't really answered, i'm still looking for a crossover (or even a dsp if its in the same price range) for my setup.

So far what i've seen is the BBE Ds24 (Or ds 26) and the Behringer DCX2496. I've had good experiences with behringer mixers but i'm cautious.

The DBX PA+ is a bit out of my price range. Looking for something cheap and reliable, say $300 tops.

[Coronaoperator]

To answer your original question - NO- the ds24 and the driverack pa+ does not have sufficient delay (7ms and 10ms) to achieve your goals if you are setting up like in my diagrams. 7 and 10ms equate to between 7 and 10 feet of distance which is no where near enough delay to do a delay stack. These short delays are only usefull in 3-way systems where you want to align the mid section with the tweeters.

The DCX2496 is the only dsp in your price range that can do delay stacks. I would stay away from used units as the early production run had some issues with the grounding. Modern units are solid as a rock.

To answer your second question, measure the distance and enter that distance in the unit, done. If you want to be fairly close then 1ms / foot.