questions about getting a sub . EV vs Alto ? 700w vs 2000w ? 2x12" vs 1 x 18"?

[DJ Matt]

im looking at picking up a sub
i DJ in quite a large bar with 800 people capacity but it has no sub. the rest of the system is "ok"..
now, when i say 800 capacity my events have between 100 and 250ppl and i can have the audience up near me when DJing
iv spoken to them about upgrading, but its a bit of a lost cause, bass is important enough to me, to want to bring my own.

so i want to get a sub and keep it in storage and take it out when im DJing (they have a couple of 10 inch tops already that i can put near the dancefloor)

anyways, im looking at the following

EV18" sub that is 700 watt (EV ELX200-18SP)
EV 15" 700 watt (EV EKX-15SP)
EV 12" 700 watt (ZxA1)


alto 15" 2000 watt (TS315S)
alto 12" 2000 watt (Alto TS312S)

the EVs are more expensive, but lower wattage.... i believe the EV are better brand right? but will there be much difference? is the 2000w option better here?


also
which would be better? 2 x 12" subs or 1 x 18" ?

also what tops would you recommend to pair up with whatever option you recommend? if i got some decent tops would I get away with the cheaper sub?
like some EV or RCF tops with the alto sub? or should i stick with all one brand ?

[conanski]

Get the biggest most powerful sub you can afford, just about any tops will sound decent with it. All the DJs I work with prefer 18" subs more than 15's or 12's, a larger driver will generally get louder than a smaller sub all else being equal but that's not the only reason, an 18 also produces more impact. I'd suggest the EKX18sp, I've been using them for a few years now and they do a great job, sound good, aren't too heavy and have been reliable. The reviews for the Alto subs aren't very flattering.

[DJ Matt]

Get the biggest most powerful sub you can afford, just about any tops will sound decent with it. All the DJs I work with prefer 18" subs more than 15's or 12's, a larger driver will generally get louder than a smaller sub all else being equal but that's not the only reason, an 18 also produces more impact. I'd suggest the EKX18sp, I've been using them for a few years now and they do a great job, sound good, aren't too heavy and have been reliable. The reviews for the Alto subs aren't very flattering.

ok thanks yea you are probably right.
although one person once told me that i need 15" tops to go with a 18" sub otherwise i will lose something in the middle..? could be nonsense , i dont know.

also i wonder about LD compared to Alto? similar price range.
i have heard them in a club i play in and they seem ok.... im not a great judge of bass speakers

[conanski]

although one person once told me that i need 15" tops to go with a 18" sub otherwise i will lose something in the middle.

No, when they're high passed at 80-100hz a 15" add nothing over a 12" but the 12" box is significantly smaller and lighter and therfore easier to move. I only have one pair of 15" powered speakers and I only have those because I couldn't refuse the deal that fell in my lap, I have 4 other pairs that are all 12's, the 15's don't come out unless everything else is in use.

im not a great judge of bass speakers

It just takes experience. I have the opportunity to use a lot of different boxes as an equipment supplier and I have heard even more in action, just some of those include the Mackie SRM1801, HD1801, the EV EKX18sp and ETX15sp, Yorkville PS15s, PSa1s, PSa2s, ES18p, QSC KW181. They all make bass but some get louder, some go lower, some deliver more thump, some just sound like there is something missing, some aren't very reliable, some are too big and heavy or are an awkward shape. There are compromizes to be made with any equipment purchase and only you can decide what those will be for you, but consider that subs have the hardest job in a sound system so if you want to be confident that your choice will last for many years you really should try to buy in at a little better than entry level, because reliability is the corner most often cut when a speaker is built to the lowest possible price point.

[DJ Matt]

No, when they're high passed at 80-100hz a 15" add nothing over a 12" but the 12" box is significantly smaller and lighter and therfore easier to move. I only have one pair of 15" powered speakers and I only have those because I couldn't refuse the deal that fell in my lap, I have 4 other pairs that are all 12's, the 15's don't come out unless everything else is in use.


It just takes experience. I have the opportunity to use a lot of different boxes as an equipment supplier and I have heard even more in action, just some of those include the Mackie SRM1801, HD1801, the EV EKX18sp and ETX15sp, Yorkville PS15s, PSa1s, PSa2s, ES18p, QSC KW181. They all make bass but some get louder, some go lower, some deliver more thump, some just sound like there is something missing, some aren't very reliable, some are too big and heavy or are an awkward shape. There are compromizes to be made with any equipment purchase and only you can decide what those will be for you, but consider that subs have the hardest job in a sound system so if you want to be confident that your choice will last for many years you really should try to buy in at a little better than entry level, because reliability is the corner most often cut when a speaker is built to the lowest possible price point.

yeah, although these will be left sitting around in a bar (in a storage cabinet) ,so i dont want something that I will be too precious about
because im sure it will get scuffed
so its a balance between something reliable, decent sounding, but also not too precious.

so im just always afraid that if i buy something that im not familiar with ill end up with total trash sound, which defeats the purpose for me, it has to be nice to some degree.

[light-o-matic]

EKX-15SP is the best investment of the subs you listed, can't go wrong there. Don't get hung up on that 2000W number, the EV is rated 1300W which is plenty, and the peak SPL rating is actually higher than the Alto. Basically you won't be getting more bass from the Alto.

And.. sure it is tough when you are looking at two subs and you can only afford a smaller sub in the better brand, but can afford a larger sub in the cheaper brand.. the larger sub may go deeper.. but then the smaller sub may perform better within the frequency range it does have... It's a tough problem. Obv if you could budget for the EKX18SP this problem goes away And the ETX18SP beats them all!

But anyway, back to reality.. I think if it was me, I'd get the ETX15SP and call it good. Because it's an excellent sub and it's deep enough for what you're doing. It'll sound great and it'll be easier to transport, and will last for many years. If you add a second one down the road it'll pack quite a good punch for medium sized events, yet still be portable. I wouldn't get a lesser quality 18 sub like the Alto just to chase a few hz more depth.

As far as getting tops for it to build a whole system.. well, you can mismatch them.. as long as the tops have a high pass filter mode that matches the low pass filter in the sub.. and most of them do. If you have a quality top like Yamaha DXR for example and match them to a competing brand like the EV EKX or ETX sub, sure it will work and will almost definitely sound good.. but.. maybe not as smooth as a brand matched system would be. In short, unless you have a good reason to not brand match them, I would match them.

[light-o-matic]

Huh.. well I just read your message about them being in a closet and getting scuffed and whatnot.
Well.. padded covers are a good investment.. I have them for my EV tops and they look great after a bunch of trips rattling around in dirty vans.

BUT.. if, at the end of the day, this sub is really for this bar and it's kind of a throwaway that you don't want to spend a lot on.. then.. again.. sure, you will notice a major improvement in your sound even with the Alto.. which as I said, is not a bad brand for budget gear, and it'll hurt a lot less if someone spills on it or steals it or bashes its grill in................ I'd rather have the EV.. but........

[DJ Matt]

and what would be the difference between the EKX series and ELX series. and whats the difference between SP and P the model numbers are a bit confusing.

i found a second hand EV ELX 118P which could do the job and isnt too pricey

[light-o-matic]

and what would be the difference between the EKX series and ELX series. and whats the difference between SP and P the model numbers are a bit confusing.

i found a second hand EV ELX 118P which could do the job and isnt too pricey

SP is the subwoofer, P is the top. So, EKX15P is a 15 inch top, EKX15SP is a 15 inch sub. BTW don't get 15 inch tops if you are running with a sub.. get 10 or 12.

The ETX is the top model line, the EKX is positioned below that, then you have the ZLX at the bottom. The ELX is actually what started the whole thing and they are a bit different but yea I would say they sit in the line between the ZLX and EKX, more or less.

If you look at the specs of similar subs (let's say, all 18 inch powered subs) in the ELX, EKX, and ETX, you will see that a greater rated max SPL as you go up the line... 132dB for ELX, 134dB for EKX, 135dB for the ETX... and as well each of them has a progressively deeper response.. 47Hz, 40Hz, 33Hz...

The output of the ELX is not bad considering, but not very deep bass...

[DJ Matt]

invaluable information, thanks

SP is the subwoofer, P is the top. So, EKX15P is a 15 inch top, EKX15SP is a 15 inch sub..

hmmm, thats strange, im wondering why the Electro-Voice ELX118P 18" Active Subwoofer is just "P"
it seems to be an exception to the rule


actually reading the spects for it now it says its frequency response is as follows

Freq. Response (-3 dB) 42 Hz - 100 Hz2
Freq. Range (-10 dB) 32 Hz - 130 Hz2
Max. Measured SPL3 134 dB


should a bassbin not normally go as far as 200hz? i always thought that was roughly the crossover point