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Thread: Lab gruppen

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    Lab gruppen

    Anyone with any experience with any lab gruppen running in 2 ohms on subs in a club s week after week with no issues?

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    The Bloodhound Manu's Avatar
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    Thread moved to "amp/speakers"

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    Member Daniel S's Avatar
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    Yeah, there should be no issue with that, as long as we're strictly speaking of if the amp kan keep up with it. The other issue is will it sound the best? Then the answer is no. I remember a chat with a well respected speaker designer and he recommended never to have more than 8 Ohms on the amp, since it sounds the best. It had something to do with the damping factor. However, most run 4 Ohms, since running 8 Ohms would mean more amps and more money. Running 2 Ohms is usually done as an emergency band aid or by weekend warriors on a limited budget.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel S View Post
    I remember a chat with a well respected speaker designer and he recommended never to have more than 8 Ohms on the amp, since it sounds the best. It had something to do with the damping factor.
    He might be well respected, but he's not well informed. Damping factor is a non-factor. http://www.cartchunk.org/audiotopics/DampingFactor.pdf

    OP, any amp rated for 2 ohm operation can do what you want, and any amp rated for 2 ohm operation can fail to do it, depending on how hard you run it.
    Bill Fitzmaurice
    Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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    A real Lab G can do this without issue but that is a good question... is this a real Lab G or a chinese fake?
    The second point I want to make is that while the amp can operate into 2 ohms it may or may not produce the output needed. The FP10k for example makes 2100w/ch at 4ohms but only 2500w/ch at 2ohm. That would power most dual 18 boxes pretty nicely 1 box per channel but double up the boxes on each channel and now each one is only getting 1000w. So while this can work as a temporary solution it may not be ideal long term.
    Paul O'Brien
    Old Tech Guy
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    VIP Member Incognito's Avatar
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    Is it a real Lab Gruppen or a Chinese clone. I have seen the real Lab Gruppen take some serious abuse & just keep ticking while with the clones it all depends on how good of a clone it is since they're not all built equal.
    If I had to play only for people who liked the music because they heard it on the radio, it wouldn't make me happy. -- David Guetta

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    The Bloodhound Manu's Avatar
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    I have seen other brands including behringer stating 2 ohm figures, which they obviously can't handle. Besides running at 2 ohms requires more ventilation because it may run hot and humid, and that's the main problem within a club environment.

    It's much easier to run 4 ohm loads, or to bridge amps. A lot of clubs do run mono so it makes more sense. And to be honest, it's more about the actual volume output. Enter speaker actual output levels.

    Conanski


    The FP10k for example makes 2100w/ch at 4ohms but only 2500w/ch at 2ohm.
    There goes the point of running it at 2 ohms. At 4 you can already push a lot of sound, so I still don't see the point of going 2, unless you need stupid loud. It's like having a ferrari, because you have it, does not mean you need to run it flat out all the time. Something is always bound to go wrong. I'd rather keep an amp 10+ years, rather than taking the risk of having it replaced every few years or less (OP says weeks). Including speakers too in the equation, burnt coils and whatnot because some DJ spiked it beyond. Going constantly flat out on an amp is taking a risk, the brand is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
    [...] depending on how hard you run it.


    This, pretty much. Nail, head, thank you Sir.
    Last edited by Manu; 08-11-2019 at 02:15 PM.

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    VIP Member Incognito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manu View Post
    I have seen other brands including behringer stating 2 ohm figures, which they obviously can't handle. Besides running at 2 ohms requires more ventilation because it may run hot and humid, and that's the main problem within a club environment.

    It's much easier to run 4 ohm loads, or to bridge amps. A lot of clubs do run mono so it makes more sense. And to be honest, it's more about the actual volume output. Enter speaker actual output levels.
    4 ohms bridged is seen as the same as 2 ohms stereo to the amp. Also, Behringer is nowhere even close to being in the same grade of gear as Lab Gruppen so that shouldn't even be a comparison to consider. Lab Gruppen is touring grade while Behringer is enthusiast grade at best, when was the Last time you've seen Behringer amps or speakers on a rider?


    Quote Originally Posted by Manu View Post
    There goes the point of running it at 2 ohms. At 4 you can already push a lot of sound, so I still don't see the point of going 2, unless you need stupid loud. It's like having a ferrari, because you have it, does not mean you need to run it flat out all the time. Something is always bound to go wrong. I'd rather keep an amp 10+ years, rather than taking the risk of having it replaced every few years or less (OP says weeks). Including speakers too in the equation, burnt coils and whatnot because some DJ spiked it beyond. Going constantly flat out on an amp is taking a risk, the brand is irrelevant.
    I have seen Crown Macrotechs in permanent installs ran hard night after night for decades with 2 ohm loads and no issues, the VLZ series are rated to 1 ohm loads & reliably deliver. My point is I like to design systems with headroom so that the system isn't constantly being pushed to its limits & I have made protests against installs that I have seen designed to squeeze every drop of potential from the system. I have also been silenced over time when that same system performed night after night with not so much as a hiccup years down the line.

    That said however, we don't know the intention of the OP here, he could be wanting to run his speakers at 2 ohms due to it being two dual 18" subs per channel & has no intention of running them full out. He does however still have the option to re-wire the system in series parallel to change the impedance load seen by the amp if that's the case.
    Last edited by Incognito; 08-12-2019 at 03:53 PM.
    If I had to play only for people who liked the music because they heard it on the radio, it wouldn't make me happy. -- David Guetta

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    The Bloodhound Manu's Avatar
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    It would be nice indeed to get more elements to the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    when was the Last time you've seen Behringer amps or speakers on a rider?

    That's the whole point, none

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    when was the Last time you've seen Behringer amps or speakers on a rider?
    I see it all the time, as in 'No Behringer, No Bugara'. If history repeats we may one day see 'No Turbosound' as well.
    Bill Fitzmaurice
    Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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