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Thread: All pioneer Digital DJM Mixers (DJM 850 +) have a terrible analog sound

  1. #11
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    Please watch the videos. Watch them twice, 3 times even. I can only point you in the right direction, the rest is up to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubflakes View Post
    No, it isn't. Warmer is a term used by just about every sound engineer (Yourself excluded) on earth to describe analog sound and the harmonic distortion that goes with it in comparison to the harshness of digital recordings.

    https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/analogue-warmth



    That's a decision made by the producer and engineer. Whether the majority of recordings have fallen victim to the "Loudness Wars" it's not the be all, end all of recording. Digital mixes can still be warm, and do not have to have the dynamic range mashed out of it. I mix a lot of deeper styles and I can assure you, very few of the tracks I play are overly compressed or brick walled. Hyper-compressed music is like nails across a chalkboard to me, so I avoid it whenever possible. I Consider dynamics as much as anything else when I'm digging for tracks. As for producers, there are plenty of studios that can sum digital mixes down to analog to achieve harmonic distortion prior to pressing.

    You've took my comment incorrectly. Your reply isn't wrong but your understanding is still a bit off.

    I was referring to Vinyl Enthusiasts and it's in inaccuracies. See the 3rd video, that is the extra they are witnessing. Digital recording (16bit 441) isn't harsh, it's distorting it that's harsh. Harmonic distortion is an essential production tool, both analogue and simulated digitally. but, any playback medium that adds it itself, is a floor, an inaccuracy of that device, regardless to liking it. If a tune is already smashed to death, there's no room for that extra distortion, the sound is already full. With analogue studio gear, it's a quick way for experienced engineers to add that texture, colour they seek to their production.

    As a side note... may of my favourite 90's Trance tunes were ruined when mastered to CD single. Engineers were only learning and made many mistakes. They couldn't push things that hard incorrectly on a vinyl, the needle would skip the groove and the established Vinyl engineers had MASTERED the Vinyl Art perfectly. It's also worth noting, those early CD's could of been louder and cleaner, had they done it right.

    Edit: That's a good SOS link... Lots of info for anyone new to the subject. I suggest people read it more than once. It supports my original comment.
    Last edited by mitchiemasha; 05-16-2019 at 10:36 PM.

  2. #12
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    Most people who are bashing Pioneers sound today... are doing so because of how bad they were. THIS!
    But on the other hand, people have complained about them bitterly for years, and I think it's become a bit of a thing that people like to complain about much much more than being an actual problem.
    Light-o is onform. The full post! Nail and Head!!
    Last edited by mitchiemasha; 05-16-2019 at 09:00 PM.

  3. #13
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    I don't understand why people are buying the Pioneer models with features bracketed out of them. That's your first mistake.

    Yes, Pioneer's phono preamps sometimes are iffy. People even complain about their RIAA curves not being right. Some of their models have harsh phono highs and/or phasey lower mids, for sure. If your main concern are the built-in phono stages on a mixer you already have, you can always buy outboard phono preamps. There are decent enough ones that are cheap.

    The DJM-800's overall sound's a little bloated in the lows, glassy in the mids, and can get crunchy or tinny in the highs. This is mostly a processing thing and is mostly only noticeable for most people back to back with other good mixers. It is pretty subtle, in my opinion. It also only has Cirrus Logic DACs and its power supply & analog out sections don't really have a whole lot of oomph. Some people think they sound worse as the night goes on when using the analog sections. The DJM-1000 that preceded it was their flagship design that led to the 800 and was better sonically in every way. The DJM900NXS2 is also better.

    The DJM-800 sounds better with digital inputs and/or utilizing the digital output to an outboard DAC/DSP than using the analog ins/outs. Some of its processing signature is still present even on the DJM900NXS2 with massively-overhauled code, but for sure there is additional smoothness and an almost artificial sense of refinement to the NXS2's presentation, especially on the treble attack. It almost sounds more delicate than what you pipe in, like maybe they overdid their attempts to push back against people saying the prior ones had issues. Not saying the NXS2 highs are damped or quiet, just some kind of beautification going on with it and politeness to them. Might have something to do with the 64bit processing, which during SRC at least in post-production stuff is usually a big advantage.
    End the reign of the House of Saud.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2012/...robert-zubrin/

  4. #14
    Yea def, I pretty much always use the S/PDIF connections from the CDJ's to the mixer when using Pioneer, it doesn't make a HUGE improvement but it is better so why not use it??? On the output side I am going analog because my processing input is analog.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manu View Post
    Nothing new, people already mentioned that with the DJM 800/600 back in the day... Duff analogue, harsh digital sounding like they slapped a limiter on top to make the mixer sound louder.

    Pioneer these days just loves to throw DAC conversion figures.
    Like the MP2015, the DJM-800 has no limiter, even optionally, which is interesting because, yeah, sometimes the Pioneer does sound almost compressing even with the EQs at 12 o'clock (so the channel meters are accurate because the gains affect the ADC input signal on the Pioneers) and you're all out of the red... maybe the PS and analog output issues over a long night thing?

    I find the old, obscure-variant, poorly-spec'ed Burr Brown DACs Pioneer used at one time, one on each XLR, to sound very musical compared to some of the Wolfsons and AKMs with higher specs. Almost seemed like someone was actually really listening to the designs during development and doing whatever they wanted for the sound they were looking for, to hell with chip maker claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubflakes View Post
    Yup. Sucks that they became the industry standard. Allen Heath is way more deserving IMO. Pioneer became the standard based out of convenience, not quality. They had their fingers in all the pies, so it was much easier for clubs and venues to package purchase CDJs and a DJM. More and more clubs had them and then more and more DJs requested them in riders and here we are.
    A&H has had their own issues with phono preamps which they've only recently started resolving. While they weren't harsh, they tended to be high capacitance and low gain, sounding smeared, quiet, and dull with many cartridges. IMO their rise to fame for sound quality had a lot more to do with how the line level inputs sounded compared to using an early Pioneer's analog outs as that's how most people connected them. With people just going analog in/out, it was hard to see much advantage to not only the DJM-500/600, but even the DJM-800 when there was a Xone to choose from. BTW, the DJM-800's phonos IMO are of the phasey "meh" variety for them and not really among the harsh ones from Pioneer, but not outstanding like the ones in some other brands. I wouldn't count the Xone 62 and 92 as being way up there on their phono stages either, though.

    Edit:

    I should also mention I think the DJM-900NXS2 is probably one of the most open and spatial mixers I've heard from Pioneer. It doesn't sound constrained or closed in, in spite of whatever other minor signatures it has with maybe gloss or politeness or whatever you want to call it.
    Last edited by Reticuli; 05-17-2019 at 05:22 PM.
    End the reign of the House of Saud.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2012/...robert-zubrin/

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