Mixer with a Gain Meter

[steveryan]

Why is it that no manufacturer has yet to produce a mixer with a Gain Meter??

Seems like a useful thing to me...

DJ's are always having to adjust the gain after the song has gone live. Would it not be better to have a little meter to look at that shows if the song has a stronger or weaker amplitude than what's playing on another channel?

A rainbow shaped LED meter that wraps around the gain knob would be perfect, but any meter would work even if it's analog.

I don't know why this hasn't been done already. Would be nice to balance out the gain before hitting the crossfader.

Ya ever seen a DJ mixer with a gain meter?

[mitchiemasha]

Because gain is irreverent. What matters is what voltage it's at after the gain. Which is show by the input PFM. Many mixers have this on each channel, those that don't you can switch the Master meter to be the PFM of the Cue.

[steveryan]

Right, but the PFM is always a combination of EQ and Gain, correct? Why not separate them?

[light-o-matic]

It's done this way (post EQ) because the DJ is interested in what the level will be when they bring the track in.. or more to the point they are trying to match the level of one track to the level of another track.. and since the eq contributes to that result, the channel metering is after that.

If for example your next track had weak bass compared to the previous track, and you were to boost the bass eq to compensate for that, then you want the meter to match that of the other track WITH the bass boosted.

But so far as DJs always adjusting the gain after the track is mixed in.. I guess it depends on how you mix.. because I always adjust it beforehand and rarely have to touch it after.

[steveryan]

It's done this way (post EQ) because the DJ is interested in what the level will be when they bring the track in.. or more to the point they are trying to match the level of one track to the level of another track.. and since the eq contributes to that result, the channel metering is after that.

If for example your next track had weak bass compared to the previous track, and you were to boost the bass eq to compensate for that, then you want the meter to match that of the other track WITH the bass boosted.

But so far as DJs always adjusting the gain after the track is mixed in.. I guess it depends on how you mix.. because I always adjust it beforehand and rarely have to touch it after.

But isn't post EQ kind of assuming that all tracks are recorded at the same level?

Some tracks are recorded weaker than others. There should be an independent meter showing where its at. Adjust that first, then adjust the EQ.

I see all these instructions online of how to set gain. It's like they assume all tracks are recorded the same.

1. Drop all channels to zero
2. Set the master volume on 8
3. Set the low, mid and high EQ knobs to their middle setting (Straight up and down usually)
4. Play a song
5. Adjust the gain to 0db on the PFM's.

Somehow, this is supposed to good for all records regardless of what level they're recorded at? How could that possibly be?

[conanski]

5. Adjust the gain to 0db on the PFM's.

Somehow, this is supposed to good for all records regardless of what level they're recorded at? How could that possibly be?

It won't be and that is why this control needs to be changed for every track.

[steveryan]

It won't be and that is why this control needs to be changed for every track.

That's what I'm talkin about. A gain meter is not a bad idea.

The sound technician in charge of the system would love that meter. They could instruct the DJ's to keep an eye on it so it doesn't go red. It would serve as a warning indicator for DJ's that press the gain too far. A lot of DJ's, especially new ones, are kinda confused about gain. They simply crank it up too far and clip the channel because they think of it as just another volume control. If the gain meter goes red, they'll know it needs to be turned down.

[Nicadraus]

That's what I'm talkin about. A gain meter is not a bad idea.

The sound technician in charge of the system would love that meter. They could instruct the DJ's to keep an eye on it so it doesn't go red. It would serve as a warning indicator for DJ's that press the gain too far. A lot of DJ's, especially new ones, are kinda confused about gain. They simply crank it up too far and clip the channel because they think of it as just another volume control. If the gain meter goes red, they'll know it needs to be turned down.

Meter or no meter, it's always up to the person listening to it. He/she should know. Relying on the meter's visuals isn't very accurate. Because the meter's peak will vary.

[conanski]

That's what I'm talkin about. A gain meter is not a bad idea.

It's a great idea but I think you are missing an important point here, when the EQs are flat the channel meter shows the raw input signal so you have a gain meter.

The sound technician in charge of the system would love that meter.

Actually if there is a sound technician then in most cases the output of the DJ mixer/console is connected to another pro sound mixer and the meter on that console is pre-EQ and only affected by the gain control.

[light-o-matic]

But isn't post EQ kind of assuming that all tracks are recorded at the same level?

Some tracks are recorded weaker than others. There should be an independent meter showing where its at. Adjust that first, then adjust the EQ.

I see all these instructions online of how to set gain. It's like they assume all tracks are recorded the same.

1. Drop all channels to zero
2. Set the master volume on 8
3. Set the low, mid and high EQ knobs to their middle setting (Straight up and down usually)
4. Play a song
5. Adjust the gain to 0db on the PFM's.

Somehow, this is supposed to good for all records regardless of what level they're recorded at? How could that possibly be?

That is not how you do it. You first eq the track to the way it will be played. If the track needs a little tweaking on the eq, you dial that in before setting the gain to its final position.

And the reason they don't supply meters pre and post is because most DJs can't handle the two types of meters they already have much less a third one. Which is also why you have instructions such as the ones you listed above.. to keep it simple for beginners and people who just don't "get it".. If you set the gain as you described above, you won't be clippi g the input of the mixer channel. If you crank the eqs up then you can still clip the mix bus, but try explaining that to most DJs .......... Fact is that most DJs who use extreme eq settings during the normal play of a track on a regular basis just don't know what they are doing and no meter in the world will help them. The few who know the deal and use extreme eq settings for good reason also know how to get the right levels.