Is it still considered piracy if...

[Mark_Spit]

Thanks for all the replies, I'm glad it started a good discussion.

Well, you own the track but honestly, I wouldn't rip from youtube as the sound quality is dreadful.

I thought the same, but figured it's just for a silly app, so why not? Then you said:

Also I have ripped many records to digital right after I bought them, as to preserve and save the best play (as records wear out obviously..) In the end it's up to you. just google and find, or rip it

Which makes a lot of sense and something I really need to get into the habit of. I still buy records somewhat regularly, so archiving them digitally would not only help preserve my music but also help me amass a digital library should I ever give up my TT's for a controller one day - probably never happen tho

You do NOT own the copy on Youtube so its not yours to rip from.

I was thinking along these lines as well.

I'm sure the record labels will start a campaign to license DJs who currently steal crap transcoded copies of music that they already own on vinyl, in order to play around with cellphone DJ programs.


Any minute now...

So..

Watch Your Back

It was more an ethical question rather than legal, but thx!

[light-o-matic]

It was more an ethical question rather than legal, but thx!

I was being a little silly.. but also, because in theory it's totally off limits to discuss the *P* word on the forums.. to the point where I'm shocked that this thread didn't get locked yet
So it's hard to answer your question honestly.

But in the USA at least.. in 1992 it was ruled that home recording for non-commercial use is not copyright infringement. So, go ahead and copy all you want, if it's your own media, for your own personal use, I'm fairly sure you can do whatever you want. Unless things changed while I wasn't paying attention, you're totally in the clear.

But then later on, in 1998, there was a law that put a royalty on the sale of some types of blank media and recording devices.. so yea, the recording industry finally got what they'd been trying to get for two decades, just before it stopped mattering. So when you went to the store in the USA, to buy blank CDs, there were "Audio CD's".. and "Data CD's".. and the RIAA member companies would get a cut of the audio ones.. and also certain types of tapes etc. Of course only fools bought the audio ones, since they were identical.

The question that, if I were a lawyer, I would have to ask the RIAA, is:

1) If you're collecting a royalty on the sale of blank discs and tapes, with the assumption that they're being used to duplicate your copyrighted material, then isn't it implicit, that we have a contract that allows me to copy your stuff and give it to my friends or to anyone I want.. since you've collected a royalty on every disc assuming I'm doing that.

2) You've even collected royalty on discs I used to make my own personal use copies of my lawfully purchased media, for example a CD of vinyl, or cassette of a CD, or a backup of a CD so I can keep the original safe from abuse of my car player... All of which I'm permitted to do under the 1992 ruling. Yet starting in 1998 people started paying royalties on those uses which were deemed to be fair use in 1992. So what the heck am I paying you for?

3) You've collected royalties on music which is not owned by you or any of your member companies.. that is to say ALL, ALL the music I DJ, electronic music NONE OF IT licensed through ASCAP, BMI, SESAC or held in any way by any of your member companies.. the genre's I DJ are entirely tiny self-contained labels that get none of the royalties you collect.... So the thousands of CDs I burned that you collected royalties on, that contained no music you had any right to whatsoever, where the heck did that money go, you greedy bastards.... I think you own someone money.. whether it's my money you stole, or the money of the labels and producers who released the music I play.. however you look at that, it's definitely not yours...

So yea...

In short, do what you like, don't worry about it, because what you're doing is probably 100% legal under fair use, unless they tried to nail you for it.. let's say trying to say that you didn't actually copy your own media.. or some such.. and make you miserable with a lawsuit and run you into the ground with legal fees if you don't settle.. which they have done to people.. but I believe that they've given up on that, and now make all their money on licenses with big streaming services and online music stores, and they don't worry about DRM so much anymore but just try to make it easy and cheap for people to get the music legally, such that it's simply not worth the trouble of stealing it.. or because basically they woke up and smelled the stale coffee their industry was becoming, that while they were busy trying to win the copying battle they were quickly losing the war, so they stopped suing teenagers and stuff.. and now worry more about staying relevant as an industry. So, getting away with it is 99% of the law in this case.. and if you don't go around blatantly selling, playing for money, or distributing music that you don't have a right to.. you are probably within the law. I believe it is even legal by the 1992 ruling for you to copy music and share it with your friends, that falls within personal use within certain limitations.. so no worries.

[Nicadraus]

I have transferred most of my vinyl track and converted them into MP3s. I rarely play my vinyl outside for gigs. Probably about 2-3 times a year. Anyway, I use those MP3 tracks for personal and not don't give them away.

[DJ Matt]

anaolgy might be, if i throw one sweet (candy for americans) wrapper in a field is it wrong? i mean one sweet wrapper is hardly going to upset the whole ecosystem....
anyways, if you are just playing around with some dj thing on your phone for a few minutes, i dont think you will have FBI helicopters flying over your house just yet. but at the same it would also be wrong to condone it in general.

i have much of my music on both vinyl and digital formats, and my own preference is to buy both, the only time i will rip a vinyl record is if the available digital version sounds inferior, or if its simply not available for purchase digitally, but i have no reason to really own a digital copy of a music file if im not using it for DJing.

things are getting complicated now though, because i do a lot of VJ work, and some bands only release their music videos on youtube, they dont appear on DJ pools and are not released for commercial sale anymore due to the fact that nobody buys DVDs now so this creates a problem, i have even written to the record labels in some cases, only to be told that this is the only place i can get the file, yep, i even tracked down the woman who produced a particular music video to ask for a copy of it, and she was very surprised. i find though, that i will normally buy the mp3/wav anyways and create my own video edit, because the videos tend to have extra sounds in them that are not conducive to DJing.

[Manu]

anaolgy might be, if i throw one sweet (candy for americans) wrapper in a field is it wrong? i mean one sweet wrapper is hardly going to upset the whole ecosystem....

One bird/animal might eat it. and when you add many people thinking it's ok to throw one wrapper only, it does upset the ecosystem. Not sure how the analogy resounds with getting a duplicate of something you own.

[DJ Matt]

One bird/animal might eat it. and when you add many people thinking it's ok to throw one wrapper only, it does upset the ecosystem. Not sure how the analogy resounds with getting a duplicate of something you own.

thats my point..... one person doing something doesnt make much impact, but on a mass scale it becomes very damaging, hence why its considered wrong.

getting a duplicate of something you own.

well he doesn't own a digital copy of the song. so it is not something he already owns. he owns the vinyl.

[Unknown DJ]

Copyright laws are crap. In Canada you can't even play the Beatles or Def Leopard at an event because they are not covered by Socan.

[ImNoDJNo]

It depends what country you live in

Which countries allow this? Australia has very good fair use laws, and that isnt legal here to my knowledge.

[Max Portland]

Just don't sell the music as your own and your good. Yes big festivals have to pay the largest music share holders, just in case someone plays that copyrighted track. Canada is not special in this example because music copyright is held worldwide.. The US is fucked too. Copyright does not fall under burning a back up. And LEGALLY yes I can burn copies and give them to my friends. As with P2P networking. As soon as I start charging for them, I will owe some royalties. I lived through the era of dudes selling tapes from the trunks of their cars. No, we can't do that nowadays, but I can still say "dude, you need to listen to this track" or "you need to see this movie, here take it".

[KirkMcD]

And LEGALLY yes I can burn copies and give them to my friends.

Cite please.