Looking for a bigger setup

[Incognito]

That's huge with me and regardless, I'd still choose the ZXa5 over the ProMaxx 14a even if both were free. The ZXa5 will easily go louder and sound just as good all the way up until the ProMaxx's limit. Forget just having slightly harsh sound at its highest levels, the ProMaxx would probably crumble and die trying to keep up with the ZXa5s.


I'm not disputing EV's calculated specs at 133dB. I know that manufacturers post 'calculated' specs based on amp power, driver sensitivity and marketing. I will say if EV has a max real-world spec of 130dB, then FBT's real-world is probably only 127dB. The ProMaxx 14A's simply won't and don't get as loud and their 135dB max SPL is vastly overrated.


Yes, I agree here... look no further than a Mackie HD1531. It's cheaper, louder, better sounding overall and has better bass than the ZXa5. I did a thorough 'listening' comparison myself. The con was Mackie's hit-or-miss reliability, Mackie's bad parts support and service, made in China everything and heavy unit weight.

So both speakers are rated by the same calculated method (based on available watts & speaker sensitivity) thus both having to factor in things such as power compression. HOWEVER, the ZXa5 is based on half space calculations thus inflating it's end spec results while the FBT is based on free space http://www.fbtusa.net/files/Pro_Maxx...mbined_PDF.pdf thus giving the edge to the FBT. The rated continuous output of the FBT is 127.5db but that is based on free space measurements so it will deliver right on par with the half space calculated measurement of the ZXa5 (a credit to FBT in that they actually list a continuous rating while the ZXa5 only lists it's peak rating) but not have the slight harshness of the ZXa5, the dip in the midrange as the ZXa5, actually offer protection for all it's drivers unlike the ZXa5 & still come in 50% cheaper & not needing the dedicated 3rd party processing to make up for any short comings like the ZXa5.

[jayhwk]

OK so by your logic, ZXa5 is better based on it's logo. OK, now I understand & get it.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's unfortunate, but a fair number (although not all) of the customers a DJ company will have don't care about how the speakers sound as long as they look good. It's a fact.

I see this all the time in live sound tours. A venue I work in gave up and bought a Meyer rig because they do mostly theater and the tours would demand they rent Meyer, even through the venue's current speakers sounded better and were better deployed.

[Incognito]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's unfortunate, but a fair number (although not all) of the customers a DJ company will have don't care about how the speakers sound as long as they look good. It's a fact.

I see this all the time in live sound tours. A venue I work in gave up and bought a Meyer rig because they do mostly theater and the tours would demand they rent Meyer, even through the venue's current speakers sounded better and were better deployed.

So over all what you're saying is with you being the hired "sound professional" it matters more what the speaker looks like vs what it sounds like???

Go stand outside a concert & pull the random person aside & ask them a few questions:

"What did the speakers look like in the concert you just attended???"

"How did they sound???"

Out of the people you ask these two questions which do you think more people will be able to answer???

[jayhwk]

So over all what you're saying is with you being the hired "sound professional" it matters more what the speaker looks like vs what it sounds like???

Go stand outside a concert & pull the random person aside & ask them a few questions:

"What did the speakers look like in the concert you just attended???"

"How did they sound???"

Out of the people you ask these two questions which do you think more people will be able to answer???

I am saying that I have had very high paying and high profile tours reject speakers because of their brand. They would have laughed at your FBTs simply because they aren't well known enough.

I am saying that I have had customers reject speakers because they did not look good enough. They would have rejected your FBTs because they don't have a full faced grille.

Remember, the audience is not my customer or your customer. The promoter (or bride, or whoever hands you the check) is. They're the ones who care.

I care about the sound quality. I care about it a lot - it's my job to make sure that I satisfy all the need of the customer, though, and sometimes that means sacrificing some sound quality for looks, if it's what the person paying me wants.

[Incognito]

I am saying that I have had very high paying and high profile tours reject speakers because of their brand. They would have laughed at your FBTs simply because they aren't well known enough.

I am saying that I have had customers reject speakers because they did not look good enough. They would have rejected your FBTs because they don't have a full faced grille.

Remember, the audience is not my customer or your customer. The promoter (or bride, or whoever hands you the check) is. They're the ones who care.

I care about the sound quality. I care about it a lot - it's my job to make sure that I satisfy all the need of the customer, though, and sometimes that means sacrificing some sound quality for looks, if it's what the person paying me wants.

Do your homework, FBT is a well regarded company & very well known.

A few years ago I took a lot of flack with my clients when I switched up & went with DIY BFM designs, I had a number of hold out who refused to give them a fair try. However once I built up the speakers reputation by delivering where many of the accepted name brands fell short I gained my full clientele back & then some. I got the same resistance when I started showing up to gigs with my JTR rig but again they more then delivered & all the hold out eventually came around. Most customers don't know anything about a speaker unless yo u're dealing with Riders & even then there's work arounds but 99% of the DJFM member base who use their own gear aren't doing that scale of gigs so it's a none issue (one more common place with the live band scene).

[Incognito]

Look guys, you're all getting side tracked here. However it maybe hard for some to come to terms with but the ZXa5 isn't the end all to be all of powered speakers in the sub $2,000 range. The fact is there are speakers in the same league as it, delivering on par SPL also doing so without some of the noted ZXa5 short comings. Does this all of a sudden make the ZXa5 a bad speaker? No, actually if you read through my post I still noted it for being an over all good speaker so I am not bashing it but giving an unbiased opinion based on personal experience & stated facts (from the manufacturer themselves no less as well as 3rd party reviewers, could we ALL be wrong??).

The thing to remember is when it comes to speakers, SPL is but one spec & shouldn't over shadow all else. Another thing, come on, the FBT is "different looking" but not totally horrible looking, the RCF 312a is just as equally "different looking" but is accepted so why the bias against the FBT? Real world flaws are found with one speaker, however they're over looked & deemed OK. Yet the FBT speaker passes all those same areas that the ZXa5 fell short on but the FBT is being called out just because it has a "different look"? The fact that the FBT performs so well & on par with the ZXa5 while coming in at a 50% cost savings over the ZXa5 & still offering features the ZXa5 can't deliver on should be the main thing to keep in mind with this speaker, not it's looks.



At the worst you can use home theater grill cloth that doesn't color the sound & cover the front of the speaker if it bothers you THAT much but yes I do agree the ZXa5 is a better looking speaker.

[GaFFLe]

So both speakers are rated by the same calculated method (based on available watts & speaker sensitivity) thus both having to factor in things such as power compression. HOWEVER, the ZXa5 is based on half space calculations thus inflating it's end spec results while the FBT is based on free space http://www.fbtusa.net/files/Pro_Maxx...mbined_PDF.pdf thus giving the edge to the FBT. The rated continuous output of the FBT is 127.5db but that is based on free space measurements so it will deliver right on par with the half space calculated measurement of the ZXa5 (a credit to FBT in that they actually list a continuous rating while the ZXa5 only lists it's peak rating) but not have the slight harshness of the ZXa5, the dip in the midrange as the ZXa5, actually offer protection for all it's drivers unlike the ZXa5 & still come in 50% cheaper & not needing the dedicated 3rd party processing to make up for any short comings like the ZXa5.

Wow, you do twist reality... The FBT, in no way, gets louder than the ZXa5 so I close my eyes to all the specification babble you mention.

Show me an authorized dealer on the web that sells a new FBT ProMaxx 14a at 50% of a $1600 EV ZXa5 and I'll buy one right now. There are plenty of authorized dealers that sell the EV for even less than that.

[Incognito]

Wow, you do twist reality... The FBT, in no way, gets louder than the ZXa5 so I close my eyes to all the specification babble you mention.

Show me an authorized dealer on the web that sells a new FBT ProMaxx 14a at 50% of a $1600 EV ZXa5 and I'll buy one right now. There are plenty of authorized dealers that sell the EV for even less than that.

So who's twisting reality, take a look for yourself.

Electrovoice ZXa5 specs http://www.electrovoice.com/sitefile...ers_Manual.pdf page 13 clearly states 133db max calculated at half space

FBT Promaxx 14a specs http://www.fbtusa.net/files/Pro_Maxx...mbined_PDF.pdf page 1 clearly states 135.5db max calculated at free space

Both using the speaker sensitivity & applied wattage to give calculations so both are using the same (none real world) calculations but neither are factoring in other factors that will reduce these figures. However FBT does give you a continuous output spec (something the ZXa5 doesn't) of 127.5db but this is also free space in comparison to the ZXa5 calculated max output of 133db in half space.

Let's go out on limb & give the ZXa5 the benefit of the doubt as being able to deliver 130db continuous, this would still be based on a half space reading where as the FBT will be able to deliver this same output in freespace continuous. (know the difference between a freespace reading & half space?)

Now as for the 50% pricing difference, you're showing signs of picking & choosing what you want from the very review you just a few posts ago was singing praises to for their placing of the ZXa5. You can't pick & choose what you want from the review because you'll become a hypocrite by becoming a "twister of reality" since the review was bought up to sing the praise of the ZXa5 over the FBT but then when the same review is used to show the flaws you can't then choose to turn a blind eye. Remember it wasn't I who bought reference to this review, all I did is use it to back up what I had already said & I even used the manufacturers own publishing on each related product to back up my claims. You yourself even agreed with me on a number of my points but not you're saying that I'm twisting reality? If you don't know the real meaning behind my signature, don't try to twist it against me since you're using it out of context. Even if on you're side of the pond the FBT can't be found for 50% less, it still comes in cheaper then the ZXa5, doesn't exhibit the short comings of the ZXa5, doesn't require 3rd party processing to deliver what should be standard & still falls with in the same SPL ballpark while still delivering on a wider frequency range then that of the ZXa5.

Does it really hurt you to admit that the ZXa5 has competition? This is all I am saying, I am not saying the ZXa5 is bad, all I am saying is there are other options available, what's hard about that to accept? You've already agreed with me there are other powered speakers in the sub $2,000 range that actually outperform the ZXa5 in certain areas so what's hard to accept that the FBT is a viable competitor to the ZXa5? So far I have based everything on facts & the only counter I have received is opinion based on aesthetics.

[GaFFLe]

So who's twisting reality, take a look for yourself.

Electrovoice ZXa5 specs http://www.electrovoice.com/sitefile...ers_Manual.pdf page 13 clearly states 133db max calculated at half space

FBT Promaxx 14a specs http://www.fbtusa.net/files/Pro_Maxx...mbined_PDF.pdf page 1 clearly states 135.5db max calculated at free space

Both using the speaker sensitivity & applied wattage to give calculations so both are using the same (none real world) calculations but neither are factoring in other factors that will reduce these figures. However FBT does give you a continuous output spec (something the ZXa5 doesn't) of 127.5db but this is also free space in comparison to the ZXa5 calculated max output of 133db in half space.

Let's go out on limb & give the ZXa5 the benefit of the doubt as being able to deliver 130db continuous, this would still be based on a half space reading where as the FBT will be able to deliver this same output in freespace continuous. (know the difference between a freespace reading & half space?)

Now as for the 50% pricing difference, you're showing signs of picking & choosing what you want from the very review you just a few posts ago was singing praises to for their placing of the ZXa5. You can't pick & choose what you want from the review because you'll become a hypocrite by becoming a "twister of reality" since the review was bought up to sing the praise of the ZXa5 over the FBT but then when the same review is used to show the flaws you can't then choose to turn a blind eye. Remember it wasn't I who bought reference to this review, all I did is use it to back up what I had already said & I even used the manufacturers own publishing on each related product to back up my claims. You yourself even agreed with me on a number of my points but not you're saying that I'm twisting reality? If you don't know the real meaning behind my signature, don't try to twist it against me since you're using it out of context.

The reality is, I can go on the web and get a new EV ZXa5 delivered to my front step for $1400 - $1700 each from any authorized EV dealer. Reality does not say I can get a new FBT ProMaxx 14a for $700 - $850 each which is 50% of the price as you and the article says. They were probably speaking of MAP or MSRP prices which is not people's purchasing reality.

I know of the ZXa5's shortcomings and I'm not ignoring anything... single handle, no limit light, slight-harshness at ear-shattering volumes. The debate started when you tried to correct me when I said the ZXa5's were the loudest output SPL 2-way powered speaker less than $2k each. Based on some calculated manufacturer specs, you wanted to chime in trying to prove how much you knew about half-space, power compression and such but in reality, you stepped into a pit of assumption because you don't own either speaker.

The article even states the ZXa5s are clearly louder than ANY of the other speakers in the comparison test, so why are you re-hashing manufacturer specs? Reality says that specs are calculated, vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, a lot of times are for marketing purposes and should not be taken as the gospel because in no way will the ProMaxx 14a be louder than the ZXa5... half-space, full-space, outer-space.

[Incognito]

The reality is, I can go on the web and get a new EV ZXa5 delivered to my front step for $1400 - $1700 each from any authorized EV dealer. Reality does not say I can get a new FBT ProMaxx 14a for $700 - $850 each which is 50% of the price as you and the article says. They were probably speaking of MAP or MSRP prices which is not people's purchasing reality.

I know of the ZXa5's shortcomings and I'm not ignoring anything... single handle, no limit light, slight-harshness at ear-shattering volumes. The debate started when you tried to correct me when I said the ZXa5's were the loudest output SPL 2-way powered speaker less than $2k each. Based on some calculated manufacturer specs, you wanted to chime in trying to prove how much you knew about half-space, power compression and such but in reality, you stepped into a pit of assumption because you don't own either speaker.

The article even states the ZXa5s are clearly louder than ANY of the other speakers in the comparison test, so why are you re-hashing manufacturer specs? Reality says that specs are calculated, vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, a lot of times are for marketing purposes and should not be taken as the gospel because in no way will the ProMaxx 14a be louder than the ZXa5... half-space, full-space, outer-space.

So I now need to own the speakers to form an opinion on them, earlier it was called into question if I had heard them but now I see I need to actually own them. So please show me your pair of FBT.... I also stated the fact that what most pro level users do (as they've been trained to do & are supposed to do) is to back off once you see the limit light kick in. Since the ZXa5 doesn't have this feature then all clear to point of distortion (so the mind set goes), so while there's still plenty headroom left on the FBT the limiters kick in to preserve the over all audio quality. So this is where the difference comes into play between the two cabinets reaching their stated spec & I already covered this earlier.

Both cabinets are calculated (using the exact same method) & I also said it's not taking into account real world factors (many times actually), I also showed how the ZXa5 spec is boosted by stating half space measurements as opposed to the FBT that used free space so......