A mixer & a subwoofer question

[pete]

Specifically.. Do not use the subwoofer output on the mixer. Can't get much more specific than that.

Ideally your sub will be able to pass through the stereo, so I agree with Conanski & Light-o-matic on this point.

If it doesn't you could use the output from the mixer at a pinch, but it is not ideal.

It really depends on the sub you buy and the budget you have.

[Take5]

Specifically.. Do not use the subwoofer output on the mixer. Can't get much more specific than that.

I got that from yours and Conanski's previous posts. I just wonder if this output is totally useless for a sub, what's the point putting it on the mixer? Is it just a Dateq's marketing trick to add some(useless?) bells & whistles or there is another purpose for that output?

[Take5]

It really depends on the sub you buy and the budget you have.

Adam Sub8

[light-o-matic]

I got that from yours and Conanski's previous posts. I just wonder if this output is totally useless for a sub, what's the point putting it on the mixer? Is it just a Dateq's marketing trick to add some(useless?) bells & whistles or there is another purpose for that output?

The Dateq is a very good mixer, but yea in this day and age the subwoofer output is fairly useless. It has to do with a little bit of club sound system history:

In the "old days".. 1970's-1980's there were some sound systems which ran the main speakers "full range" .. that is, all frequencies were sent to them. Then you would have subwoofers which got only the bass, and supertweeters which got only highs. And "crossover" units were built which provided these signals for the sub and highs while leaving the "main" signal full range.

But even then, in fact since decades earlier than that, it was known that having two speakers produce the same frequencies caused phase problems in the system and didn't sound as good as restricting each frequency range to one speaker. In other words, if the subwoofers are handling bass below 100Hz, the main speakers should not be. More complex crossovers are used which provide these signals.. And that's how it's pretty universally done now.

But for a while, you would have DJs who wanted to run a subwoofer and all they had was a mixer and an amplifier and a pair of speakers (no powered speakers in those days so you need a separate amp).. and they wanted to add a subwoofer so they would buy a subwoofer, with another amplifier. And then to run that subwoofer you needed a crossover unit which was a pro piece of gear that they would not want to spend more money on or that most DJs would even understand. So a lot of mixers provided this subwoofer output for that purpose. And it was considered ok to have the sub frequencies overlapping the mains because that is how the old club systems did it and because it was supposedly better than no sub at all.

But now there are plenty of cheap crossovers and processors for people to buy that do the job right, and there are also powered speakers and powered subwoofers like yours which have the crossover circuits built into them (the filter settings on the back, which should be turned on.. read the Adam manual), which are superior to doing it the old way, because the subwoofer itself in this case has superior features you should be using.

So that's why you should ignore the subwoofer output on your mixer.

[conanski]

I just wonder if this output is totally useless for a sub, what's the point putting it on the mixer?

That output can also be used to feed a lighting controller to sync the lights to the music.

[Take5]

The Dateq is a very good mixer, but yea in this day and age the subwoofer output is fairly useless. It has to do with a little bit of club sound system history:

In the "old days".. 1970's-1980's there were some sound systems which ran the main speakers "full range" .. that is, all frequencies were sent to them. Then you would have subwoofers which got only the bass, and supertweeters which got only highs. And "crossover" units were built which provided these signals for the sub and highs while leaving the "main" signal full range.

But even then, in fact since decades earlier than that, it was known that having two speakers produce the same frequencies caused phase problems in the system and didn't sound as good as restricting each frequency range to one speaker. In other words, if the subwoofers are handling bass below 100Hz, the main speakers should not be. More complex crossovers are used which provide these signals.. And that's how it's pretty universally done now.

But for a while, you would have DJs who wanted to run a subwoofer and all they had was a mixer and an amplifier and a pair of speakers (no powered speakers in those days so you need a separate amp).. and they wanted to add a subwoofer so they would buy a subwoofer, with another amplifier. And then to run that subwoofer you needed a crossover unit which was a pro piece of gear that they would not want to spend more money on or that most DJs would even understand. So a lot of mixers provided this subwoofer output for that purpose. And it was considered ok to have the sub frequencies overlapping the mains because that is how the old club systems did it and because it was supposedly better than no sub at all.

But now there are plenty of cheap crossovers and processors for people to buy that do the job right, and there are also powered speakers and powered subwoofers like yours which have the crossover circuits built into them (the filter settings on the back, which should be turned on.. read the Adam manual), which are superior to doing it the old way, because the subwoofer itself in this case has superior features you should be using.

So that's why you should ignore the subwoofer output on your mixer.

Thanks a lot for such a detailed answer, Lightomatic! All clear now!

[Take5]

Lightomatic, in home environment is there a difference(in terms of sound quality) between connecting a sub to the mixer via booth out (rca) or via master out(Xlr's)?

[light-o-matic]

Lightomatic, in home environment is there a difference(in terms of sound quality) between connecting a sub to the mixer via booth out (rca) or via master out(Xlr's)?

The advantage to the XLR (balanced) cable connection is greater noise rejection than the RCA (unbalanced) connection . In a home environment there is usually very little or no difference, especially on short cables. If you are running longer cables then XLR makes more sense not just because of noise performance but because of the physical strength of the connector vs the RCA.. if you were to trip over or pull an RCA cable too hard you could easily break the cable or the connector it's plugged into whereas XLR is made for that kind of abuse.

So yea, XLR is better.. but RCA usually works fine in a home system. It is personal choice whether you want to go for the XLR directly or try the RCA and see if it works out ok for you. You seem to like high priced cables.. that being the case you might find that a long RCA cable of the brands you usually buy costs as much as a pair of medium priced XLR cables.. in which case the XLR is the winner.

[Take5]

You seem to like high priced cables.. that being the case you might find that a long RCA cable of the brands you usually buy costs as much as a pair of medium priced XLR cables.. in which case the XLR is the winner.

I used to have a VERY bad experience using cheap RCA's and XLR's(supplied with EV speakers).All I got from using them was a hum and distorted sound. Since I've switched over to Oyaide cables, the problem ha gone.Don't get me wrong, I'am not chasing after hi-end hundred $ audio cables.All I'am looking for is an optimal quality sound for an optimal amount of money. I just need to be sure that every link in my analogue sound chain is decent quality Thanks for your help!

[light-o-matic]

Yea I understand. Well I think that if you're running more than a few feet then you really ought to go with the XLR. Your mixer has it and so does your sub and I am sure your EV speakers have them too. A moderate priced XLR cable is definitely a better choice than even a high end RCA.