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Thread: Is there a way to make an amp idiot proof? (avoid threat of clipping)

  1. #11
    Truck Driver Dix's Avatar
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    Before I get started, I am NOT kicking anybody around here. I guess I'm asking a question as well....

    I keep seeing this "clipping" subject come up & as far as I know in 13 years of mobile DJing, I dont think I have ever had this problem. I know I am older than 99% of you guys & maybe I have no clue what you guys are doing/talking about but it just seems like common sense to me.

    I always bought speakers too big for amps (so as not risk blowing up or damaging my speakers) & buying amps too big for for my gigs (to keep from over driving my amps or system as a whole). I mean, again, I thought that was just common sense.? Again, I am not kicking anybody around here, I guess I am just asking... ain't it? Or am I totally off base with this &/or what your asking?

    Let me explain. Currently, I play smaller weddings (75 - 200 people) as 85% of my gigs, some high school reunions, birthdays etc. I don't see many gigs with more than about 200 guests.
    My main set up is 2 - 1000 X 2 watt speakers = 2000 watts
    Pushed with a 800 watt X 2 = 1600 watt (total) amp

    I usually never need to exceed 50% on my amp which never over drives it. It never over heats & it never "clips", so it never shuts down.
    Which in turn, never over drives my speakers.

    I just bought a Pair of Yamaha DBR12's to play ceremonies & other small, quick, easy, less active events with. Those are 500 X 2 = 1000 watt powered speakers. For these events, I'll never overdrive these speakers.

    Am I right or am I too old to understand that technically, we aren't on the same page here?
    Am I:
    Right?
    Wrong?
    Indifferent?
    It doesnt matter?
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  2. #12
    Member fueledbymusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by light-o-matic View Post
    Two questions: Since you are using both channels for sub's now, you can't use the GX3 crossover mode.. so what are you using for a crossover? If nothing, that's your first problem. You need a crossover or digital processor. A digital processor will give you a crossover and limiters in one box.

    Second question is, what are the power ratings / impedances of the tubas? Maybe the GX3 is just not sufficient to drive them to maximum output.
    At this moment, I'm no longer in crossover mode (for the Tubas), this is just temporary only. I will be addressing this as soon as I can with a limiter. But the amp still clips anyway in crossover mode. They are BP102s in my Tubas are 200 watts and 8 ohms. 10". The other day, I even disconnected all my speakers and checked the amp for clipping (without the speakers hooked up), speakers don't have anything to do with clipping, do they?

    Quote Originally Posted by light-o-matic View Post
    Another thing you can do is to id you are at the limit of your bass capacity is to put in a high pass filter to cut out some of the lowest bass (which uses the most power). A processor will have this.
    What does a high pass filter look like? (A processor box less HPF). Just wondering.

    Oh, I forgot, I do have an equalizer. GMI pro. yeah I know, I'll be getting my ass kicked for it, lol. But the amp STILL clips even after bypassing the equalizer!

    Quote Originally Posted by conanski View Post
    What you are experiencing is a situation many DJs run into and there is no quick fix for it until you get enough subs to deliver about 10dB more output than the tops, that is how much the bass is boosted in modern music relative to everything else. Your current setup is 2 Tubas? What model are they and what drivers are they using? If they are well matched with the amp(300w at 8ohms) then the obvious first step would be to add another pair but then you have more stuff to carry, so maybe you need more powerful subs or a larger amp if the current subs can handle more power. In my experience DJs aren't happy until the bass is nauseating at the mix position and that takes some seriously high output subs.
    I have Tuba 24s with BP102s. 10", 200w, 8 ohms. And I do have another pair of those coming really quick!
    But then again, before, I was daisy chaining 2 speakers on each channel. For the moment, I have one tuba per channel, but I will be going back to daisy chaining 2 subs per channel soon.

    But other than that, it don't matter what speaker I use, what way I hook them. (hence trying out my amp without speakers hooked up). And EVEN when I lower the gains, bass etc. By the time I'm able to stop the threat of clipping, the volume and bass is just too low!

    It's time for me to get a limiter! I will be getting it soon.


    Quote Originally Posted by allensmusic View Post
    yes.
    don't let idiots use the gear.
    OHH Allen
    I am not a professional DJ. It's a backyard hobby I love! In the garage. Numark ndx-500, American Audio 10 mxr , 4 BFM tuba 24s, EV ZLX 12p's, Truss full of lights. I STILL have all my equipment as of June 2019!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixieland DJ View Post
    Before I get started, I am NOT kicking anybody around here. I guess I'm asking a question as well....

    I keep seeing this "clipping" subject come up & as far as I know in 13 years of mobile DJing, I dont think I have ever had this problem. I know I am older than 99% of you guys & maybe I have no clue what you guys are doing/talking about but it just seems like common sense to me.

    I always bought speakers too big for amps (so as not risk blowing up or damaging my speakers) & buying amps too big for for my gigs (to keep from over driving my amps or system as a whole). I mean, again, I thought that was just common sense.? Again, I am not kicking anybody around here, I guess I am just asking... ain't it? Or am I totally off base with this &/or what your asking?

    Let me explain. Currently, I play smaller weddings (75 - 200 people) as 85% of my gigs, some high school reunions, birthdays etc. I don't see many gigs with more than about 200 guests.
    My main set up is 2 - 1000 X 2 watt speakers = 2000 watts
    Pushed with a 800 watt X 2 = 1600 watt (total) amp

    I usually never need to exceed 50% on my amp which never over drives it. It never over heats & it never "clips", so it never shuts down.
    Which in turn, never over drives my speakers.

    I just bought a Pair of Yamaha DBR12's to play ceremonies & other small, quick, easy, less active events with. Those are 500 X 2 = 1000 watt powered speakers. For these events, I'll never overdrive these speakers.

    Am I right or am I too old to understand that technically, we aren't on the same page here?
    Am I:
    Right?
    Wrong?
    Indifferent?
    It doesnt matter?
    and the answer is, yes we are too old.
    the younger DJ's cram the levels to 11 and then wonder why gear distorts and overheats. they want a magic solution to prevent all these mysterious problems.
    We are simply too old to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Troy View Post
    If I was only willing to listen to music *I* like, then I wouldn't be a mobile DJ, I'd just get a Pandora subscription.

  4. #14
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    This is what comes to mind:

    Gain structure, but you cant have that without a DSP " Dbx Driverack, Bbe ds24 or similar.

    Your amp is not outputting 300 watts in sub freq. maybe 240 watts.

  5. #15
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    I've run 4 T39's Bp102 loaded on a Peavey ipr1600 on one channel and never clipped the amp, because of Bbe ds24.

  6. #16
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    The peavey has similar specs as your qsc.

  7. #17
    Member fueledbymusic's Avatar
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    Allen, LOL

    Besides Dixie. I NEVER thought of that. Wow, now that you mentioned old. I now really suspect, that is what my problem is. My hearing is not at all that great. So, as I see it, I crank up the volume and reaching the limit just for me hear the same way as someone with far better hearing. DAMN! Not to mention, last night, I was doing a "loud test" of my whole system. In the detached garage, door closed and everything. Blasting my sys. (which I hardly do, except the bass). My wife and kids in the far room watching TV. They reported hearing my sys really easily and even feeling bass. I really honestly did not think this was happening!
    I am not a professional DJ. It's a backyard hobby I love! In the garage. Numark ndx-500, American Audio 10 mxr , 4 BFM tuba 24s, EV ZLX 12p's, Truss full of lights. I STILL have all my equipment as of June 2019!

  8. #18
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    Make sure you have "enough rig for the gig" better to have 5000W idling than 1200W redlining all night.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by fueledbymusic View Post
    I had a pair a Yamaha tops and the pair of Tubas all on my QSC GX3
    That sounds like a lot of stuff for a GX3.
    How many watts & Ω were the Yamaha speakers?
    How many watts & Ω are the Tuba subs?

    I have a pair of JBL MP215 (Same thing as the JRX115, just a better cabinet.) that I used to run with a Peavey PV-4C amp which only put out 120 watts @ 8Ω.
    Now I'm using a GX5 (500 watts @ 8Ω) to power them.

    The 120 watt amp had enough power to make the speakers go loud, but not enough power to make them go low. The amount of bass that's coming out of the exact same speakers with a more powerful (4 times the power.) amp is like night & day.
    "In the early 1990s, the Bose AM-5 held some 30% of the US speaker market. Not Bose the company. Just the AM-5."
    ~ Audioholics.com

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledbymusic View Post
    EVEN when I lower the gains, bass etc. By the time I'm able to stop the threat of clipping, the volume and bass is just too low!
    Therein lies the answer to your problem, if you can't get the levels you want without sending the amp into clipping you don't have enough rig. Adding 2 more Tubas will help but it's hard to say of it will be enough, the GX3 only produces 425w/ch at 4ohms which means each sub only gets a little over 200w vs 300w when only 2 are connected. Upgrading to a GX5 would be a better fit but.. would that be enough.. will it produce enough output to keep you from pushing it to clipping? I don't know.. I'd say you would still end up pushing it to the limit, so should you just throw in the towel right now and begin building a much higher output sub system for use with a much larger power amp.
    Paul O'Brien
    Old Tech Guy
    www.Techott.com

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