Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: underground hip hop vs underground dance - does race and culture play a role?

  1. #1
    Member colione98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Made in NYC,Tested Overseas,Bottled in Miami,Sould to Jersey
    Posts
    944

    underground hip hop vs underground dance - does race and culture play a role?

    It’s kind of hard to put it in question form so bear with me if the title throws you off. And there is an elephant in the room so if you are up for it, let's have a go but let's keep it clean please. No low blows or attacking each other.

    We can agree that people all over the world enjoy music. You have hard core dancehall reggae acts that can get really gutter but then mellow it out with some roots style singing about god and women. Same with rap- you can have some straight up street cats do a track with an R&B gal like Mary j Blige. But when it comes to dance music, underground in particular, to include the techno movement, I find that it’s not the same. Many, not all, but many that like an old school raw jazzy hip hop track by guru won’t touch a house or tech house track with the same sexy or soulful elements. Again, I am not speaking in absolute but a good majority. For me, the same way I like my rap either gutter hard or smooth or even some club style commercial is the same way I appreciate dance music.

    I know I have touched on this before but now I am thinking more that it is a culture thing. Why do so many underground djs (mostly white and euro white Latino- from my experience in the US) promote underground events with “no soft beats” but at the same time, those same djs have no problem rocking to a smooth old school mob deep and 112 track. Mob deep is straight gutter. Is it hypocrisy? Although not speaking in absolute, but can race be a contributing factor as many black djs, those that are into dance, are mostly into the soulful or latin tech house side of things and appreciate the vocals? Not to say whites don't do soulful cause most of my favorite producers are white from germany, italy, and netherlands and produce soul type of club house.

    Like I said, its not an absolute and there are exceptions.

    If you can see from the video below, one can say that the kid doing a cover of a dancehall artist sings well and many Jamaicans love his sound. You can also agree that an average music lover would find it appealing. But if that is incorporated into house, its not as appreciated by the underground acts because I think underground has gotten so extreme today. I don't So where is the disconnect? And for me, it’s a movement because I feel right now the dance music is too extreme and our youth are not getting exposed to dance in the US as a whole but mostly extreme techno/deep house and EDM. It should be a well-rounded exposure, not extremism. And also, much of the dance festivals are mostly techno/EDM in the US with not too many black or Caribbean latino- as they were the ones to initially bring on house/techno music and hip hop.

    Your thoughts? I know, I gets deep but it’s a conversation that needs to be had.




    Last edited by colione98; 07-31-2014 at 03:18 PM.
    Dj Coach/Nightclub Consultant
    How to mix deep house: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVfF7vjd_hM
    My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAF...wzOtDqBfpTFNrw

  2. #2
    short answer no it does not.

    I grew up listing to the Smith, Inspiral Crapets, stone roses, James and other assorted indie music.
    Then in my clubbing days jungle techno, breaks, techno, dnb, big beat and electro when it was actually electro sounding.
    Now i just listen to them all and lately when i got into scratcing and juggling Hip hop.

    I think where you grow up factors in though.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    365
    I had to read your post over a couple of times to get a grasp of the question. I may be answering something different, but "underground dance" can certainly have soul, but I find it's a different kind of soul than what you find in "underground hip hop".

    I'll have to make one assumption though, anything that is not considered mass "EDM" is considered "underground dance". So for me, diving deep into trance, progressive house, and techno.

    I think it's safe to say that most of us would agree that the typical "EDM" out now is aggressive, an aural assault. It has no soul. No question about it.

    The underground electronic genres though, they can definitely have soul, emotion, groove. A lot of progressive house just infects your body and makes you want to groove. I was on a Henry Saiz boat cruise recently, the last track he played (120 BPM tops), just made me wanna fuck.

    Quite a bit of modern trance can lift your spirit up, bring back memories, make you cry.

    For me, the responses that are created from this "underground dance", is equivalent to the soul that you are referring to in "underground hip hop" (which I am not well versed in, for the record ).

    In that sense, I can't see race and culture being such a big factor.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,123
    It's hard to say if race plays a part. I don't know what makes a person like a certain kind of music. It sounds silly, but I think it's almost like it's pre-destined for you to like certain genres/styles and it's a matter of being exposed to them. When I was young (pre-teen age) 99% of the music I listened to was from white artists, cos I was friends with an older kid who was a huge music head and I'd go round to his house regularly to listen to his records. He was into punk, new wave and stuff, and almost all of that music came from white singers and bands. As soon as I heard hip-hop and electro for the first time, it was a "this is it" moment and I knew straight away that it was "my thing". Now, if you scroll through my music collection, you can play a game of "spot the white dood" and if you're lucky you might find one: -





    So, where did my love of that music come from? I'm a white guy with parents who weren't even into music and whose meagre record collection consisted of Cliff Richard, Elvis and stuff like that - no influence there. I think it's largely innate.

    Soul and funk (not in terms of genres) are a HUGE part of why I like a particular song. That's one of the reasons why I can't stand EDM. It's completely bereft of any kind of soul whatsoever. Even the vocals, if a song has any, are usually absolutely fucking terrible. It's the polar opposite of everything I like in music. It's also got nothing to do with underground/mainstream for me. There's a lot of great mainstream dance tracks that exhibit soul and that's exactly why I like them. It's why I like that Mobb Deep/112 track too.

    This is why I never make assumptions about what race a person is when I speak to them online. I've had a bunch of people say to me "no way, you're a white guy?" when they see my picture, including folks on here, cos they assume I must be black cos of the music I like and that's always a bit weird to me. It would be like assuming that Rabbitmonk is white cos he liked the Inspiral Carpets and James.

  5. #5
    Member kir mokum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    ...
    Posts
    1,089
    Quote Originally Posted by colione98 View Post
    Why do so many underground djs (mostly white and euro white Latino- from my experience in the US) promote underground events with “no soft beats”
    in my experience this is completely false and basically the reverse is true.

  6. #6
    Member kir mokum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    ...
    Posts
    1,089
    and i'm not sure how deep house can be "extreme".

  7. #7
    Member DJArmani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North Jersey
    Posts
    1,250
    Not true... I've been exposed to so many genres from hanging around many different people.. Grew up on strictly hip hop, r&b, freestyle, & Latin music.. Never heard of house until I was about 11 & began hanging around a friend of mine who would listen to house all day.. I used to hate it but it became ingrained in me. So I can listen to the souless edm crap, & also listen to a disco/r&b/90's Hiphop set by DJ Scratch (for example) & appreciate it. If you like music (whether it's something that is hated on or not) you can still be a 'music lover'. A music lover doesn't have to love all genres of music (I would never listen to opera for example).
    Confidence, and hard work is the key to success in anything. Lost track of battle record
    http://www.soundcloud.com/djarmanicee

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    over there
    Posts
    1,676
    Invented by black Americans or Caribbeans: jazz, funk, soul, reggae, dub, house, techno, garage, hip hop

    Invented by white Europeans: trance, eurodance

    White Americans: EDM




    Not really that simple I suppose, as for example we all know techno as we know it now was also shaped massively by the UK and Europe when it crossed the ocean.

    Harder to call these days, but in my experience you definitely see a different racial mix at a techno night (mostly white) compared to a hip hop/RnB night.

  9. #9
    Member Jimanee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Here, there and everywhere
    Posts
    709
    A quick one guys, don't think we should be using ourselves as examples. Because we're l33t DJF DJs, not comparable to the average scum mentioned in OPs post.

  10. #10
    Member colione98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Made in NYC,Tested Overseas,Bottled in Miami,Sould to Jersey
    Posts
    944
    Listen, I know it can be a touchy subject depending on who you talk to. I was just throwing some feelers out but I don't want to go further on this.

    Thanks for the responses.
    Dj Coach/Nightclub Consultant
    How to mix deep house: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVfF7vjd_hM
    My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAF...wzOtDqBfpTFNrw

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
a