I'm turning in my A&H DB4 for a DJM 900, (Talk me out of it, or thumbs up)

[hoff]

I'll get flamed for saying this but A&H is turning into a high-end version of Denon, which isn't a bad thing, but it's something I'm not a fan of.

beyond the fact that denon and A&H are owned by the same company, i dont see how that is... I'd compare denon to pio before A&H. and if its not a bad thing, what are you not a fan of? denon makes better mixers than pioneer in the sub-1k range ie. x600, x1600... just don't like denon cus theyre denon?

[Blueprint]

Before I start this reply, I just want to apologize for hijacking this thread.

What do you mean?

beyond the fact that denon and A&H are owned by the same company, i dont see how that is... I'd compare denon to pio before A&H. and if its not a bad thing, what are you not a fan of? denon makes better mixers than pioneer in the sub-1k range ie. x600, x1600... just don't like denon cus theyre denon?

This should answer both questions:

Do you remember when Denon acquired A&H just over four years ago? Well, now that we've got a better picture of what products they've produced since that merger, I've noticed a few things:

1 - Build quality has gone down, more reports of faulty mixers. I personally had a friend go through a bad Xone 42 and then there's the bad Xone 22s (a simple search will yield decent results, more if we had the old djf database). (Maybe due to the combination of the Denon acquisition and the well noted production shift from England to China? Could be both.)

2 - More features on the mixers - this might be the natural evolution of their Xone line but at the same time, don't you see the influence of Denon on A&H on this aspect of their mixers? A&H was basically filters and eqs pre-merger.. It just seems a bit drastic to the layout, feature set, etc..

3 - The future of A&H dj mixers is gonna be completely swallowed up by Pioneer, but circa 2004, you could make the case for either Pioneer or A&H. Their price points could go down, resale value will drop significantly more than it already has. A&H will eventually be known as the high end version of Denon.

But don't get me wrong, I know several djs that swear by Denon. I'm just not one of them.


Citation to the Denon and A&H acquisition:
http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Liv.../td-p/15660782

[Andrew B]

1. Production was moved to China before the acquisition by D&M Holding. Both DBs are made in the UK. Denon doesn't own A&H, but they're both owned by the same company. They're just (unsuccessfully IMO) trying to follow the trends in DJ technology.

2. Denon has no influence on A&H. They're operated as completely separate companies. A&H still has the same management that they did before they were acquired.

3. Sort of agree. I think they need a revamped 92. I'm not sure what the best path for them to take, though. The 92 was the club standard when it was released, but was almost completely taken over once the 800 came out. They should've been quicker to respond to Pioneer before that happened, although at the time they didn't have the marketing muscle of Pioneer.

I still think the DB4 is the best mixer on the market, but I would probably take a 900 over it. That's kind of sad.

[KLH]

This thread is nuts, but what're you gonna do? The heart wants what the heart wants. If you're going to do it, do it now and stop thinking. You're allowing people (like me) to create buyers remorse for you.

Just do it and master the eff out of the 900...

-KLH

[fatcatdj]

Pioneer mixers still made in Japan? Singapore/Maylasia doesn't count. I still have a Denon HS5500 and it says made in Japan, my SC3900's has a pretty good sized Made in China on the front.
But regardless where its made, things are going to be slapped together anyways as long as the global economy is slumping. Noboby gives a sh*t anymore.

RANT: all people want to do in their spare time walking out to their car, catching a train or bus is to whip out their f*cking iphone and text
or look up something stupid on it while not paying attention around them. Also the people who put together Denons, Allen Heaths and Pioneers
do the same thing while on shift breaks, smoking a cigarette while looking down at their smart phones chatting about what the hell they're going
to do after work from their crap job soldering pc boards together on stupid dj mixers and CDJ's.
They're all friggin' ZOMBIES, no wonder Trance, Electro and House is so popular because its a NO BRAINER bopping around on 128BPM

[Blueprint]

fun thread

[KLH]

The OP asked me via PM for my reasoning for keeping the DB4, so I'll give it.

Here are the major differences that I see between the two mixers:

DB4 Pros:

* SIX filters (2 assignable global, and 1 optional on each channel)
* Filters have RESONANCE (!!!) for acid squelching joy
* FOUR effect units (this is why there's no send/returns, and JTDC, A&H is right)
* Mic/Aux can be an additional stereo line-in device - that can be routed to mix or channel 1 (for EQ, etc)
* FULL SAMPLER/LOOP RECORDER ON EACH CHANNEL(!!!)

DB4 Cons:

* Two analog inputs are switchable phono/line instead of dedicated phono and line inputs (but could be addressed via coaxial S/PDIF inputs)
* Headphones don't have a split cue mode - [EDIT: This is incorrect]
* Isn't the "standard" club mixer
[* No aux send and return loop - but with 4 FX units you don't need this on this mixer]


Pioneer DJM-900 Pros:

* "Standard" club mixer
* Has 8 dedicated stereo analog inputs - 6 line-level, 2 phono-level
* Supports 2 mic inputs (one via Neutrik TRS/XLR and other via TRS)
* Has "talk-over" function for mics
* Headphone have a split cue mode
* Two effects units (One "basic", one "traditional")
* Has a aux-send/return loop
* Has a secondary RCA master output

Pioneer Cons:

* Only two effects units can be used. The Aux send/return loop and the "traditional" fx unit are mutually exclusive (!!!)


That's my 10m analysis on each mixer. Ultimately, IMHO the DB4 is a full step above the Pioneer, meaning it's the mixer that those who get sick of the -900 would buy... unless they go for the -2000.

I wouldn't sell the DB4; it simply has too many fun things that the -900nexus doesn't have.

-KLH

[xs2man]

* Mic/Aux can be an additional stereo line-in device - that can be routed to mix or channel 1 (for EQ, etc)

This line can actually be routed to any of the channels now, and used in the looper for better control for beatboxers etc...

[KLH]

I'm posting this from PMs to continue the conversation here so that others can benefit...

Glad my insight helped you in your decision.

Now, on to Traktor. It is possible to run virtual decks from Traktor into your DB4 (or DJM-900), but the question is how to control them. If you have CDJ 900s or -2000s, you can use HID via USB. Otherwise, you'll have to use a controller (like the X1 or S4) or timecode. If you want to use timecode, you'll have to buy Traktor Scratch Pro as Traktor Pro doesn't come with a DVS engine.

If you plan to use timecode, you'll need to buy either the Audio 6 (for 2 deck control) or Audio 10 (for four deck control). From there, the CDJs connect to the audio interface and from there to the mixer. The cool thing is that using the interface allows you to control Traktor's virtual deck OR use the CDJ directly.

-KLH

Thanks SO MUCH for the response. Ok-so I have a few questions for you. With Traktor, is it possible to replicate the perchannel looper/sampler using virtual decks and the DJM900? Basically, if I catch a loop on channel 1 (cdj input channel), can I transport it to a virtual deck (say deck 3) within Traktor and mix somethign else in on deck 1/2? I know the DB4 can do this all externally but I'm trying to weigh the differences.

Even though Traktor Pro has a 64-slot sample playback engine in a deck that NI calls a "remix deck", there's only ONE sample recording feature - called a "loop recorder".

The Loop Recorder can sample from any deck, input, or the master out. The advantage is that the loop can be moved/copied to any of the 64-slots in the Remix Deck. You can even build Remix Deck Collections (sets of up to 64 samples) this way. Powerful stuff.

And yes, once the loop is recorded, the original deck is free to do anything else.

Also, the effect that I like the most on the 900 is the noise color fader with the resonance. I do not like how I cannot use a filter and noise at the same time though, not even saying on different channels, I'm saying on the SAME CHANNEL. That's kind of a bummer. Can this white noise resonance effect be replicated in Traktor? I'm trying to really think technically about this so that I don't regret my decision down the road. The DB4 effects are cool but sometimes I like the IN YOUR FACE noise during a build up.

I haven't played with anything like this in Traktor, but I can think of several ways to do it with one slot (of 64!!!) in a Remix Deck alone.

***

THIS IS MY OPINION! You should have only one "brain" for your setup. Make it a mixer OR make it a DVS/DJ app (like Traktor), don't do both.

What I mean by that is if you have a bad-ass mixer like DB4 or DJM-900, do effects and sampling tricks there. In that case, Traktor is simply a sound source. I'd ignore all the EQ, filters, etc. within and use the mixer to do those things.

Conversely, if Traktor (or VDJ, SDJ, etc) is how you want to do filters, EQ, etc., don't use an external mixer. That'd be a waste. Get a controller with external inputs and use Traktor's internal mixer.

-KLH

[den1213]

What did you end up doing? I've actually been considering a similar switch as the DB4 is just way too much for me.

Thanx for all the comments---->

I'm still holding on to mine. In-fact, I didn't even know that there had been an update to 2.0. They added a varied way to use the affects, plus more affects, and even a way to control your speakers sort of dbx style. They actually made the mixer even better it seems.(speaking as a novice)

http://youtu.be/HkANmmvkb2E

I guess the biggest issue with me is the overall sound issue, and not necessarily the drop off in affects from the 900. I've ask around, and really have not heard a definite yes or no on the sound question; if I use the 900 and the DB4 side by side with my current set up, will I hear a drop off in sound quality. Currently, my sound is crystal clear at high and low levels, and I don't hear to much white noise etc coming from my set-up. If I switch, I want the 900 to sound just the same.