Gig Snobs, Music Critics & Venue Owners

[AdrianR]

I wasn't debating your ability.

But now that you bring it up, unless you're rich, have drug money, or are just a mega risk taker and have a big line of credit, it's best to start smaller.

Also, 20 DJ nights tend to suck. But they're popular with the ADD crowd.

Sorry I should have said that before the gig with 20 Dj's we'd spent years hosting smaller gigs. We DID start small, but because we were having this problem we, well I opted to get all the best Dj's who had played all the smaller gigs I'd thrown, put them together and have one big party. Even then the numbers were a BIT better but not drastically.


M!TCH: I agree with that 100% but, we have laws here and when it gets past 11pm. Forget it. You can barely fart because some old cunt will call the police. Not only that, it's the whole mentality that Dj's have here. The majority WON'T come over for a mix. And if they do its like "Ok let me play" and you watch them for an hour, then you go for an hour while they play Xbox or what ever and it's like "FUCK I COULD HAVE STAYED HOME FOR THIS!".

The ONLY person to come over and say to me "lets go song for song and try to out do eachother" (Which is how I think it SHOULD be)... WAS AMERICAN!!! He'd moved here and now I don't see him anymore but it was only because he was from somewhere else and had been doing this for years that he had the proper mentality of challenging eachother to get better. Now I see BAD Dj's getting more gigs than me and it drives me nuts. You should hear the shit I heard earlier this week from a Dj who'se had some gigs recently.

I keep finding myself disassciating myself from these Dj's because they are bad. Because they won't put in the hard yards and do some mobile gigs and the result is they can't rock a dance floor. Because they are losing their beat matching REALLY bad. Because they don't understand levels and things like that.
But, fuck! I'm running out of Dj's to put on at GIGS! And venues and everything but, I KNOW I can deliver, I don't think I've ever NOT delivered. (Sorry to sound full of myself), and so, what the fuck! It's so, ridiculous! People playing this promotion politics. They'll pretend to help you but literally sabotage you so that your gig is shit and there's is awsome, but they end up playing at both and you end up fucked! Sometimes, infact, I know more people than myslef this has happend to who will back what I say 110%. .. We have thrown gigs, the dj's have fucked us as described, and so the bar has closed at some fuck ass early shit hour.. (like 1am) AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO PLAY AT OUR OWN GIGS!!! All the money has been outlayed by us, and we don't even get to fucking play!

[uncut69]

you sound like a whiny bitch, if its too much of a pain in the ass find a different hobby. it sounds to me like putting on events is more stressful than fun for you...and if your losing money on it thats even dumber

[dlove]

yeah; a bad attitude gets you nowhere.

[AdrianR]

Sticking through it during the hard times is what makes it worth it in the long run. It's not about bailing out as soon as shit gets tough and threads like this are about trying to find creative solutions to make those tough times a little easier. I still love what I do, that's why I'm having a whinge. Because the situation means I can't continue to do what I love the way I love to do it. Sure I can keep being a Dj from my bedroom, but that's all I have to offer going to waste. I'm better than that and I appologise if it sounds arrogant, but I'm too fucking good at this to spend my ass mixing at home because I don't have 1000 Facebook friends.

[dlove]

Sticking through it during the hard times is what makes it worth it in the long run. It's not about bailing out as soon as shit gets tough and threads like this are about trying to find creative solutions to make those tough times a little easier. I still love what I do, that's why I'm having a whinge. Because the situation means I can't continue to do what I love the way I love to do it. Sure I can keep being a Dj from my bedroom, but that's all I have to offer going to waste. I'm better than that and I appologise if it sounds arrogant, but I'm too fucking good at this to spend my ass mixing at home because I don't have 1000 Facebook friends.

but you start off by saying "why EDM will fail", then have a rant about how you think you're not 'making it' as you'd like, so you're not coming from a positive place as far as I can see.

I'd say facebook & social media are here now, stop moaning! Yet I wouldn't take facebook events on face-value anyway; the last Mungo's gig I did, 33 people 'joined' the event on facebook yet 370 people actually turned up. I've seen it go the other way, too - some nights get a lot of attention on facebook and are completely dead in reality.

I'd also say that you can't expect the same people to have the same/your passion all the time; as a small-town DJ, most people who came religiously to my nights years ago have moved on, and the next lot are on the dancefloor now. You can't blame people for not coming; just appreciate it's life, and feel blessed for people who do!

ps, the natural law of clubnights is, the busiest gets the biggest room and the prime dates. Don' diss other clubnights/venues/DJ's/style of music because they're more popular; it just comes across as bitter.

[AdrianR]

Mate I hear what your saying, I do, and I agree and it's admirable.

But you have to understand, I don't want big. I don't want popular. I don't want the most underground club in Melbourne that EVERYONE knows about.

I just want to party. I just want the oppertunity to make people dance. If I could, I'd host it at my house and play what ever anyone wants. I'd play nursery ryhmes if it made people happy, but I'm coming from a place where unless you are one of a very select few places or companies, your hands are tied and you are forced out of doing what you love. Its heart breaking for me to see rubbish Dj's purposely try to bring down excellent Djs because they are better. It kills me to see people genuinely HATE going out! .. They would rather be at home. As if going out is a choire... Which then means, I can't do what I love. Me and people like me are being pushed out. And I see it EVERY day. I saw it again today.

"Oh man. I toured America and Japan. Now I can't get a gig in Melbourne. If I host one no one comes."

And then there's a massive attitude clash. Like, fuck. If everyone is complaining they can't get a gig, why not band together and throw one right? Sounds good in theory, except as soon as you mention the possibility of giving someone a gig, they think they are fucking Tiesto. They want the gig, but become too busy for you. Too busy to help out. As far as they're concerned, they're JUST Dj's. And you know what? For a bunch of wankers who allegedly spend so much time practicing because they're not actually playing out, the vast majority of them fucking suck! And whats even worse? They think they're too good for mobile gigs. So when they ARE actually faced with a crowd, they fucking suck even more! So I totally do not blame patrons for not wanting to go out. But, when you don't have a community to support the art form, it dies. If no one wants to hear Dj's play anymore, where will the DJ's go? What will we do?

I get what your saying, but, it's so fucking hard to live this shit. To put in years of effort to see it come undone because of politics. Both social and literal. Especially when, these things were created to ESCAPE politics. People went out to escape the work politics of the week, to escape social politics, to escape all this bullshit, and now, it's all a game of votes. Dj competitions are ranked on how many fans the Dj has. LITERALLY!! Not, behind the scenes shit, they are literally judged on that criteria. So hows anyone with no fans meant to get any if they're not given a chance?

My mailing list, is my greatest acheivement as a Dj. When I see it, I think "wow, it's not big, but this is how many people took the time to sign up and hear me. They liked my music so much they took time out of their day to actively sign up to recieve updates about me!" Because, I never asked ANY of them to join. I never joined any of theirs first. I never did any of this "you friend me I friend you" bullshit. I never offered this false sense of friendship to any of them. They joined up purely on the merrit of my music. So, the internet and all that shit isn't ALL bad. Its just, we live in a society so popularity driven now in EVERY field and industry, that the people who work the hardest are being left by the way side. I think I need to open a club. I think in this town, that's my own real way forward

[dlove]

Its just, we live in a society so popularity driven now in EVERY field and industry, that the people who work the hardest are being left by the way side. I think I need to open a club. I think in this town, that's my own real way forward

haha. What makes you think your club will be a success? You think you got problems now

[propertrax]

same story as anywhere man. there's always a few hometown heroes that end up as the big fish in little ponds, and not usually because of raw talent or anything, although there are exceptions. Then there are the folks that try and try and try, and may have a lot of dedication, but don't "play the game" of going out to all the nights, kissing ass, pandering to idiots, etc. If you go that route, you either need a very dedicated crew that sees eye to eye with you and that's willing to put in the effort to help do it big...or you gotta bail out and go elsewhere.

This all came as a hobby for me, but the longer I did it and the deeper I got, I realized it was more than that. So I take shit pretty seriously...but also learned to not take anything seriously...if that makes any sense. I focus on the bigger picture, and don't really give much thought to my local scene anymore. I've done it all here at this point, and understand that without either a pile of cash and a wider base of dedicated, smart people helping out, it's more or less plateaued for what I'm into within this city. I decided to adjust my goals and expand beyond it, rather than worry about amateur hour.

But I do feel for the hobby DJs that are actually great at what they do, but are put into life situations that force them to deal with shitty local scenes. There are so many fakes, poseurs, and established forces going against them, that it's very difficult to get an opportunity to just play a few good parties with minimal issues. That's where it's gone. So you either have to accept, adapt, or quit.

[dlove]

I play stuff that most people in this small town would say they hate! hehe. I don't take it personally when my slot gets pushed back to make way for money-making gigs, as it's the popular gigs (mad electro, ect) that keep the club going financially. Without them, there would be no club here for me to put my Reggae, Latin and Afro' nights on.

@propertrax; I hear you. When you've got a solid foundation in the music you play, out of town gigs come along to ease the disappointment of not getting loads of local gigs...and it's amazing what a few out of town gigs do to local popularity - once you're on that circuit, pulling a crowd is much easier.

[AdrianR]

Propertrax: I agree completely with you. My idols that got me into Djing were just local guys. And I too have done all the local gigs, have given ALL my local idols gigs, have played with them and along side them etc and now, again, I don't want to sound arrogant, but a lot of people have said I've surpassed them. Which is flattering.

When I was doing all that though, it was HARD to get gigs! Like, you had to give demos and they had to be good and the guys you were up against were prettty fucking good!
There was no sound cloud but we had Mp3.com.au (which is basically the same thing) but, you would NEVER post a half finished track. Or a 2 min sample, or even worse a un official remix and the absolute worst thing you could do would be to post up a popular EDM song that you would claim was your 'Remix;, which was really the exact same song with a loop thrown over the top of it. That's all I hear on Sound Cloud now.

And yeah, I totally hear you on the problems you'd have owning a club, and I don't blame them at all because I understand a bit, but fark man. Like, What ever happend to, On Friday nights at this venue it was this kind of music, had so many Dj's and you could try to get a guest spot there and work your way up? It's so hard now! Because, theres almost NEVER anything on WEEKLY!!! It's almost ALL monthly!

The situation I'm in now is funny. As in, where I'm going to in the next hour or so. I won't explain it in too great detail but basically, all these Dj's I gave gigs to are throwing their own gigs at a venue I put most of them on at, but all on different nights of the month, yet they all know eachother.