Jukebox Server-side That Can Be Overridden By A Live Show?

[Faelandaea]

Hello, everyone. I am brand new to these forums (freshly registered), and with this first post I want to first thank the hosts and other fellow DJs out there for what looks like a great DJ community.

I tried the search function of these forums as well as Google, but I am so new to DJing that I might be using the wrong search terminology. I run a personal radio station online, and am currently broadcasting using SAM Broadcaster with Icecast being my server, which is located on my computer. The end user listens in from players embedded in my own web site.

I recently contacted my web host and they said it was okay for me to install a streaming server, however due to liability issues they could not recommend software or "endorse" any particular name. So here is what I am looking for:

I need a software solution that can be installed via FTP/web browser (FileZilla to upload, etc.) that can take music that I have on my web host (I'd be uploading those as well so that the software has access) and play it randomly, along with station ID's, ads, etc. as an automated system. Now is where you will tell me to just install an embedded MP3 player, BUT now comes the tricky part . . . I need to be able to override that stream when I go live.

A radio station I used to volunteer for (subspace radio) has this ability already, but due to security reasons they would not tell me how they do it (understandable). They have what they call "Live 1" and "Live 2" for streams and the DJs can hand off to each other. DJ1 gets done on Live 1, starts to play a "transition song" and DJ2 also plays a "transition song". At the assigned time (usually on the hour) the server AUTOMATICALLY switches the live stream from DJ1 to DJ2. The listener does not have to switch players. In fact all they hear between shows is the transition song then the new DJ starting their show. This seems very professional and is done just like a real radio station, but handled by DJs in their own homes in separate locations in the world.

When there are no DJs scheduled, an automated system takes over and acts as a "jukebox" of sorts, playing random music but also including the station ID, ads, etc.

In my case, I am the only DJ, but in the future I have a couple of friends that stated they might want to play music on my station as well. So I am planning ahead for a solution to do this. But in the meantime, I do want my station to be 24/7 music playing. NOT just the 4 to 8 hours a day I am live. No matter when the listener tunes in I want them to be able to hear music. But I also have to watch my ISP bandwidth and computer wear and tear, so I am not willing to leave my PC on 24/7 to run a server out of my home.

Again, I apologize for making this seem long, but I want to be very clear on what I am looking for and see if any fellow DJs have a solution, paid or free, that can fit my needs. ANY suggestions will help, including what the technology is called so I can find something via Google. I keep searching "online streaming server", "Online jukebox", "online radio DJ software" and all I get are leads to software you can install on your own computer at home or third party hosting solutions that you have to pay monthly for. I do not need hosting. I just need software that can be uploaded to my web host that works with what I need.

Take care, all, and thanks in advance for any leads.

[mars.shosh1n]

I think you're going to want some combo of icecast/icegenerator.

http://forum.sourcefabric.org/discus...lback-mount/p1


But, some questions:

- Do you have root/shell on your web server?
- What OS is your web server?
- By 'ISP Bandwidth' are you referring to your home ISP or your Web Server Provider? Either way, what are the specs of the connection you wish to stream from? (I can't necessarily decipher whether you want to run this out of your home or from your co.lo.)

I ran a shoutcast server from a standard DSL 25mb down/10 mb up type package back in college, and found that I could not support over 3-4 listeners at a time at like 64 kbps.

And, finally, I play tuesday nights on Jungletrain.net -- the admin over there has this configured, but with a custom oddcast client. Ping me if you want to hop into an irc room or something and hash this out. And I'm happy to help if you want to give me a shell (I promise, no funny business )

[Faelandaea]

I think you're going to want some combo of icecast/icegenerator.

http://forum.sourcefabric.org/discus...lback-mount/p1

I already use Icecast. Icecast cannot be installed server-side. It can only be used on a home user's computer to stream to the internet, but cannot be installed on a web host at all. The same goes for IceGenerator, from what i can see, as the description states all it does is take load off your CPU, but really does nothing different from icecast and is again an end-user application, not a server application.

- Do you have root/shell on your web server?

I believe I do. if it helps, this is my hosting package:

http://www.inmotionhosting.com/hostingplans.html

My package is the middle option, the "Power" package.

- What OS is your web server?

I am unsure what OS they use for their servers. The only reference to OS is that it "Works with Windows, Mac or Linux", but i do not think they would share what OS they specifically use server-side. I would think that would be a security issue, but I will try to ask them.

- By 'ISP Bandwidth' are you referring to your home ISP or your Web Server Provider? Either way, what are the specs of the connection you wish to stream from? (I can't necessarily decipher whether you want to run this out of your home or from your co.lo.)

I do mean home bandwidth. I go through Comcast and I am almost certain there is a limit to how much bandwidth I use per month. I have read many reports that if you use a certain amount of bandwidth in x-amount of time, Comcast "throttles" your bandwidth down to be "fair to other users". The particular package I have is supposed to be 20Gbps for speed, but I cannot find any limitation as to amount anywhere in the paperwork.

As for where i want to run this from, I want to run it from the provider I linked above. Thus making it available 24/7. One of the reasons I do not want to run it from my home is I do not want to have my computer on 24/7. It is a very very expensive high end machine I built myself and the longer she lasts, the better (I am also a heavy gamer), as i cannot afford to be replacing hardware every few months.

I ran a shoutcast server from a standard DSL 25mb down/10 mb up type package back in college, and found that I could not support over 3-4 listeners at a time at like 64 kbps.

I looked into Shoutcast, but unfortunately they are just like Icecast in that you can only install it on your own machine. You cannot install it via FTP and access it remotely. When i am on the air I usually only have about 50 to 100 listeners, streaming at 128 kbps. Doing this is no issue . . . when I am on the air. The main issue I am having is having music 24/7 when i am NOT on the air live, when my computer is off, AND having the ability to have another DJ come on the air from another location on the SAME stream so I can have multiple DJs on the same station, without the need for multiple players embedded in the same web site.

Basically I want something like subspace-radio.net has . . . an automated "handler" that takes over when a DJ is not on live . . . but the listener experience is that there is a DJ - even a virtual one - around the clock.

I REALLY REALLY wish i could word this better, but it is something I am new to, and that is why I am on this forum - to learn and grow with the right tools at hand. Just this particular situation is so hard to explain, and when I DJ'd for subspace they could not divulge how they stream or what software they use. Company policy, etc. But basically the procedue was this:

I was scheduled to go on a x-time. There are 2 connections used by the DJs for that station. L1 and L2. I usually aired on L1. Another Dj was airing on L2 . . . or when there was no DJ slotted the automated system was on the air. Either way, I was not on yet. At 5 minutes before I went on the air, I started playing a transition track assigned by the station which is used by all DJs for the beginning and end of their show. At the precise time I was scheduled to go on the air, the automated system faded into my stream, and with the way the transition track was designed, the listener did not even really notice a change (unless they were listening really hard for the fade). Once my transition was complete, my show started with the rating sweeper, station ID and then my content.

The great thing about this was that the listener did NOT have to change players to switch to my show. The automated system took care of everything for the DJ, switching from one to another. And if for some reason my ISP crashed, or i had tech issues, another DJ could hop on the same stream and "take over" the show seamlessly with their own music and content.

THIS is what I am looking to do with my radio station.

And, finally, I play tuesday nights on Jungletrain.net -- the admin over there has this configured, but with a custom oddcast client. Ping me if you want to hop into an irc room or something and hash this out. And I'm happy to help if you want to give me a shell (I promise, no funny business )

I will be happy to do this. ANY help is appreciated. I just need to contact Inmotion and get some education. I do not know, nor have I ever used, a shell (not even sure what a shell is). The only time I have ever seen that term was when accessing MySQL in certain areas for Sam broadcaster.

I hope these answers help. And I greatly appreciate your taking the time to try to assist.

[mars.shosh1n]

I greatly appreciate your taking the time to try to assist.

Any time! I'm happy to help. Please know this, as I continue to slip into my terse nerddom....

Icecast cannot be installed server-side.

This is false. And, if I may make an assumption -- it sounds like you're new to networking/technology in general.

The thing is, if you're broadcasting data, you're a server. If you're receiving data, you're a client. Plain and simple. Therefore, if you install icecast on a machine, and start sending data to whoever connects to you -- you've already got the package working, 'server-side'.

Which brings me to ...

cannot be installed on a web host at all

This is also false. A 'web server' is nothing more than a computer system running software that serves web pages. Saying icecast can't be installed on a web server is like saying software cannot be installed on computers.

Now, whether your web host /allows/ you to do such things -- is another question.

Based on the link to the different packages at inmotion, I cannot derive what OS you're using, or whether they'll give you permission to install and run arbitrary scripts/executables. That means, I'm kind of shooting in the dark, here.

i do not think they would share what OS they specifically use server-side

Nah, not really. It's fairly arbitrary to identify one's operating system with a series of tests (sometimes, a poorly configured web server will just tell you without you even having to ask).

Either way, it seems safe to assume you don't have shell (aka console, aka terminal, aka command line) access. And without that, you probably don't have root access (windows equivalent to 'administrator', for *nix platforms).

Therefore, the only way you'd be able to install the applications on your web host would be to ftp the files, and execute them with a browser. This may or may not work, depending on your web host.

I do mean home bandwidth. I go through Comcast and I am almost certain there is a limit to how much bandwidth I use per month. I have read many reports that if you use a certain amount of bandwidth in x-amount of time, Comcast "throttles" your bandwidth down to be "fair to other users". The particular package I have is supposed to be 20Gbps for speed, but I cannot find any limitation as to amount anywhere in the paperwork.

As for where i want to run this from, I want to run it from the provider I linked above. Thus making it available 24/7. One of the reasons I do not want to run it from my home is I do not want to have my computer on 24/7. It is a very very expensive high end machine I built myself and the longer she lasts, the better (I am also a heavy gamer), as i cannot afford to be replacing hardware every few months.

OK, I think I see what you're saying here, please let me clarify for you -- in the situation you describe, you'll have the streaming server pushing data from the web host. It'll have a cache of local music (mp3's, ogg's, what have you) which it will use to 'jukebox' the stream. When a live dj connects, you're 'relaying' your signal to the server, to push out to the stream.

Regarding bandwidth (mind the caps!): 20Gb/s is approximately 2.5MB/s. If this is the only number you recall from your ISP package, then I'd wager this is downstream. Generally speaking, upstream is significantly less than downstream -- in your case, I'd guess something like 5Gb/s, or about 625KB/s (1Gb is approximately 0.125MB which is approximately 125KB). For example, I stream on Jungletrain at 128kb/s. For comparison, the highest quality mp3 is 320kb/s.

Let's do some math.

128kb/s * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour = 460800kb/hr
Divide that by 1024 to figure out that's 450MB/hr
Multiply that by the number of hours per day/week/month to identify bandwidth usage over a defined timeframe. Compare that to your ISP's SLA's (service level agreements) -- but you probably don't want to tell them you're streaming -- they're try to upsell the more expensive 'business' package, which, with a web host running your broadcast relay, probably won't be necessary).

Keep in mind, this is ONLY from YOUR HOUSE, out. If someone else connects from somewhere else, then it's their bandwidth being leveraged, not your house.

I see your web host purports 'unlimited monthly bandwidth', but this is a big marketing misnomer. While I would recommend just pushing your server to see what it's capable of, I'd also warn you that ultimately, it's up to your ISP, whether they'll allow this traffic. And sometimes, ISP's can be bitches. But I digress.

It is a very very expensive high end machine I built myself and the longer she lasts, the better (I am also a heavy gamer), as i cannot afford to be replacing hardware every few months.

I built myself a middle of the road gaming rig, but I regard it as highly capable. And I leave her on 24/7, because I do serve stuff from there also. Currently uptime is about 120 days, but only because of windows updates (haven't applied recently, hehe). And before that, downtime from a power outage, and before that, I moved. Of course, I'm pretty reckless with my gear because I'm comfortable fixing whatever, and my experience is such that I don't need to replace hardware on the monthly.

I looked into Shoutcast, but unfortunately they are just like Icecast in that you can only install it on your own machine.

Sorry, I use the terms interchangeably (though I probably shouldn't) -- icecast/shoutcast are basically the same shit, different smell.

Here, read this: http://forum.internet-radio.com/faq/...st-server.html

Anyway, works blowin up at me right now so I gotta run. But hope this gets you back on track.

[Faelandaea]

You are cortrect on everything you assumed in my reply, and thank you for being patient. I am a hardware geek, and am comfortable also with troubleshooting windows application issues and some software issues, but this DJ thing is so new to me that my head about exploded. However, the link you provided gave a HUGE lead . . . "Mountpoints". THAT's the term I was trying to think of all this time, but never knew what it was called until i read that article!!!!

•Icecast has mountpoints meaning and automatically transferes listeners from the Auto DJ to the Live stream and back again without needing to manually turn anything on or off. So you connect and all the listeners are transfered from the autodj to the live stream and then back again when you are finished.

That is quoted from that article and is precisely what i am looking for.

Inmotion did tell me I can stream unlimited and they did tell me that yes, I DO have permission to install software on my account via FTP. I'll have to read up and see if this can be done with Icecast and how to manage these "mountpoints" and program them appropriately.

I have a LOT to learn in this area, but if one thing ever excites me in life, it is learning new things, and that one link provided me with more intel than hours of Googling on my own. It was just a matter of not knowing what to look for. Now I do . . . sort of. I might still need some assistance from fellow DJs like yourself, but the information you provided and led me to was outstanding. THANK you!!!

Now to figure out what I need to create a system like this on my web host.

OH! And yes I know the basics of client vs. server. However my typing above was absolutely terrible in reference. In this case I was referring to myself as the client to the web server, referring to Inmotion Hosting as the "server" in this case with me being a "client" connecting to stream the music. Sorry for the confusion in the way I was trying to explain things (this is why I do not work in support areas LOL).