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djbigchamp
02-09-2012, 01:00 PM
Just curious as to which software you use to produce. Me and my bandmate split Logic 9, and I was curious as to how it compares to something like Ableton. I have downloaded an Ableton Demo, but I'm a little confused by its advantages, especially in a live setting. Also, how does Reason compare?

Just to clarify, I'm not asking which one is better or which one to purchase, more so why you chose the software you had, and what advantages you find useful.

Thanks!

login
02-09-2012, 03:59 PM
I choosed Ableton because it's easier to develop musical ideas for someone like me who doesnt have a lot of musical background.

Working with clips makes it easy to create loops and test ideas fast, also modifyng already existing midi sequences or audio files.

Sween
02-09-2012, 04:01 PM
I've used Pro Tools, Cubase, and Ableton.

I prefer Ableton... but I'm also just a toddler when it comes to production so my opinion should matter too much.

JohnXVI
02-09-2012, 04:17 PM
I started with Reason because out of the box you can begin to get you feet wet without much book digging. Eventually I pair it up with Logic because of some powerful features within it, but the learning curve requires you to sit down and do a lot of researching.

jaytoh
02-09-2012, 04:27 PM
As above

I started on Reason 2.5 then went to 4 then 5. Almost bought 6 but then got a Mac and went for logic so I'm running 5 with that now.

Reason is great to start with. I just started to feel limited with it so I wanted to pair it up with Logic.

The things I like about Reason are

Redrum - great and simple
Thor - one great synth prefer it over Logics ES2
Kong - MPC style drum machine
Automation is simple to manipulate (especially for LFO's, Filters, Cutoff's)
Plus the ability to flip the rack and wire up the units as you want them.

Logic seriously wish I had done it sooner!
Wordks great with reason plugins are great. Audio drops in straight away. Flex is amazing for dropping in samples. Had used Ableton in the past for me Logic was far more user friendly. Also hated the arrangement view in Ableton

djbigchamp
02-09-2012, 04:29 PM
My first experience with any type of prod software, was with reason, and now I moved on to Logic 9. I downloaded a demo of Ableton, and it looked super foreign to me. I guess I just need to dive in. I'm assuming I'll be able to work on some hip hop production? Or is Ableton not a go-to for that?

ezelkow1
02-09-2012, 04:32 PM
I use ableton and fl studio, and have briefly used a few others, but its mainly ableton for me. For many of the same reasons as login, its just so speedy to be able to get general ideas down. I also love its routing, I instantly understood its send/returns, audio in/out setup, but any time I try some standard daw layout I feel it takes me 2x as long to do in there as it would in ableton. Also love the effect/instrument/drum racks and just the whole general workflow of it. I do like FLstudio for its piano roll, but beyond that its always felt like a jumbled mess to me, sometimes Ill use it as a vst to pump midi into ableton. Thats not to say I think its bad, its still a great piece of software, but I just dont gel with it as well as ableton


I'm assuming I'll be able to work on some hip hop production? Or is Ableton not a go-to for that?

No daw is genre specific, you can make any genre in anything

As for the op, its all really workflow preference, however I do think live has an edge in ..... live usage. Its the session view and being able to trigger clips on the fly, which isnt nearly as nice in any other daws live-esque modes IMHO. Besides that aspect, they're all good

Giran
02-09-2012, 05:13 PM
Started on Reason 3, learnt a fair bit of producing until someone (ironically from this forum...) suggested I try Ableton Live. :D
I enjoyed using Ableton Live because the transition was almost seamless, in terms of workflow and shortcuts.
I didn't have a multi-monitor setup so thankfully I couldn't get used to Reason's detachable rack. This is one feature I would have hoped to see in Ableton Live 9. :teef:

If Ableton does not release any information regarding Live 9, then I'm considering using Bitwig. It's not that I'm suddenly jumping ship or anything, but if a competing product does the exact same thing, and even better, then why not use it? Otherwise I'm just wasting my money for no reason... :(

FusRohDah
02-09-2012, 10:10 PM
I haven't tinkered in production for quite some time, however I bought the Ableton Live 7 Suite back in 2008 and found it to be the most intuitive I've tried. I know it sounds wierd given the interface looks all complicated and first time users will complain that everything they want to use is all hidden away.
Tried Fruity Loops a couple of times (once before I knew anything about production) and after I became framiliar with Live, both times it was just confusing as hell.

Andrew B
02-09-2012, 10:16 PM
Started with Reason, felt limited. Got Logic with the intention to ReWire Reason into it. Found out I didn't need Reason at all.

I can't get used to Live's workflow. I prefer more traditional DAWs, I guess. I like Pro Tools too.

Manu
02-10-2012, 03:11 AM
Logic/Reason/ableton and a few other small programs for specific tasks.

Mystic
02-10-2012, 07:00 AM
Sonar X1 Expanded
Sonar has hands down the best midi working environment of any DAW I've used. The GUI is also very useful and easy to work with once you get the basics down. No longer need dual monitors because of the X-Ray feature as well which helps a lot on space. The audio engine is stable and 64bit is a dream working in. Their effects and plugins, especially with Expanded, are quite incredible and sound great. I wasn't expecting much at first, but they have become some of my favourite tools to work with. They have also made great leaps in the past version with their Matrix Viewer and step sequencer.

The only things I don't like about Sonar at this point is, for one, it has a steep learning curve compared to all the other DAWs out there. The other is that they need a new time stretching algorithm. As more people start using Sonar for electronic music, I'm sure the demand for a better way to time stretch will be implemented, but for now, it's a real pain in the ass.

Reason
I've not upgraded to the newest version of Reason yet. It's still under debate. I mainly use Reason as a VST to create demos with before I start working on the actual song. The soundbanks are... alright. They aren't terrible, but for using it as a standalone VST, there are certainly much better options if you want high quality sounds. That being said, keep in mind I work mainly in Rock, Industrial and Pop and am only now getting into EDM production which I'm sure a whole world of Reason will open up in this genre. One thing I do love about Reason is when being used as a standalone DAW, it's pretty much the most stable option out there. I can't speak for the newest version, especially now that they have audio input included, but in the past, you really couldn't beat it for stability.

The one thing that has really irritated me about Reason though was the lack of 64 bit support, especially in Rewire. I hear they have gone the route of x64 with the newest release though but I've not really had a lot of time to mess with it yet. We'll have to see. I may upgrade or not.

Ableton
I only recently started working in Ableton and I absolutely hate the interface and working environment as a DAW. I can see how it would be useful for a live setting but as a DAW I find it quite worthless. I'll likely continue to do most of my production in Sonar and use Live if I ever decide to do sets.

Ignotus
02-10-2012, 07:50 AM
started with reason, and am still on it, i have tinkered with it so much, and learned so much that i really dont feel AS limited as others say.... the workflow for me is VERY ******.... it started with ppl saying "do you use reason?", to now asking how i make those sounds, and when i tell them reason, they look at me dumbfounded.... i find the whole idea that reason is a "hardware" rack, very useful to me... is it for everyone? no ofc not... i feel like propellerhead tried to re-invent the wheel on this one, and in my opinion did a really good job

Mystic
02-10-2012, 08:12 AM
i find the whole idea that reason is a "hardware" rack, very useful to me... is it for everyone? no ofc not... i feel like propellerhead tried to re-invent the wheel on this one, and in my opinion did a really good job

This is one thing I've always liked about Reason was the graphical rack. It makes life so much easier for routing and gives you so much more of a better understanding on how these would work in real life applications than just regular drop menu settings. Plus, I find it much easier to pinpoint routing mistakes in Reason than with some of my other VSTs.

Hygro
02-10-2012, 08:14 AM
Started with Reason, felt limited. Got Logic with the intention to ReWire Reason into it. Found out I didn't need Reason at all.

I can't get used to Live's workflow. I prefer more traditional DAWs, I guess. I like Pro Tools too.
Similar to my story.
I started actually on garage band and played with that a few years. Maybe a total of 350 hours or so. Here's the extent of my garageband career before ditching it.
http://soundcloud.com/jmc/greek-pt-i-unreleased-work-in-progress

Bought Reason 4.0 because some of my favorite artists at the time used it so I thought it was good. Then I realized they were DJs with some club edits and sound engineers helping them (aka Junior Vasquez) and weren't remotely good producer role models.

Reason turned out to suck. It worked out of the box, but I never knew what I was doing or how I managed to make anything. I like Thor, but I never figured it out until I stopped using it. I like some of the included instruments. This is my only completed work with reason.
http://soundcloud.com/jmc/april-shower-dawn

I was going to buy Ableton but Andrew started getting me a bit hyped on Logic, plus I liked Garageband's workflow. When I saw a student deal on Logic 9 for $150 it was a wrap. Except for a few weird things like some occasional glitches that fix themselves when I reboot the program, or the awful, awful, useless way Logic does arpeggiation, I love Logic. I think Ableton might do some things better, but few. The learning curve for Logic was super fast, comparatively. It's definitely called "Logic" for a reason. Very powerful tool too. Also I hear if you mixdown a track on ableton it sounds worse than if you route it through logic first. I've never confirmed this. Anyway, here's one of the first tracks I completed on Logic, followed by one of the most recent ones I did.
http://soundcloud.com/jmc/once-vampire

http://soundcloud.com/hygro/and-everafter

xyloft
02-10-2012, 09:19 AM
I downloaded demo's of reason and ableton for PC when I first started. bought an Pad kontrol with no software and a few months later, bought a axiom 49 keyboard. (4 years ago). i got bored/distracted and sold both a little while after.

Early last year, I decided to get back into it, and after wasting the above money, i decided to go a more cautious route. I bought an MPK49 that came with ableton lite. Ableton attracted me because of it's integration with serrato. Since I already had the lite version (for free) I decided to just focus on learning all I could about that one. There are plenty of tutorials, books, online resources, etc for it. took advantage of a discount upgrade to get ableton 8 a few months later, after I knew I was more serious about it this time.

I started out primarily using the arrangement view, but after getting an APC40, I now create most clips in session view to play around with stuff. I'll then record into arrangement view and add builds/ automations where needed.

Jason Cerna
02-10-2012, 10:47 AM
Been using Ableton Live since version 4. I prefer the workflow compared to the other demos I tried out at the time. I'm happy with 8 and I'm going to stick with that for a while.

thehadgi
02-10-2012, 11:57 AM
Ableton, because that's what I started on and it makes sense. But if I ever switched to another program, after a while I'd get used to that workflow, and it would make sense after a while too.

As much as I love ableton, I will say that their stock plugins are fairly good, but if you compare the plugins you get with ableton 8 with those of logic (don't know about pro tools or sonar), ableton's fall a little short. Logic has some really powerful synths, and their compressor is really good. So if you want a traditional DAW setup with the better end of stock plugins, don't get ableton, because it's not really a typical DAW. Still though... I love ableton and you can check my soundcloud. All made in ableton

mostapha
02-10-2012, 03:20 PM
I didn't read the replies and I assume that people coverd the basics.

I have used and have given up on Ableton Live, Reason, Cubase/Nuendo, Renoise, Garage Band, Fruity Loops and Sonar (long ago), and, uhh…probably some other stuff. I just didn't like them for one reason or another.

I'm between Logic 9 and Pro Tools 10 in that I own Logic 9 and will be buying Pro Tools 10 as soon as I feel like the expense is justified. And it's just 2 little features. It's simpler to switch between stereo and dual mono tracks in Pro Tools, because you just use buses that are organized into stereo pairs and it places no limits on where they go. Logic pretends to know better than you and figures out whether the bus should be mono or stereo, which is annoying. It's also easier to re-order plugins in PT.

They're little issues that some people wouldn't care about.

I also just really like working in it. It's just a preference thing.

Man, I miss that demo. I mean…I miss PT 7.3 (though not my mBox2) as well, but that PT10 demo was just awesome.

Mike Raunchy
02-10-2012, 05:10 PM
I'm new to production.First purchase I made was Maschine Mikro(I got an awesome price, if not I would have got the big brother). I instantly fell in love with the hardware and interface and was amazed at what I could do with it pretty much off the rip. As a standalone I got tired of making full tracks on it though, so I wanted to get something else to complement it. So of course without doing much research I went and got an APC20 and Abelton Lite for 99 bucks(how could I pass it up?). Well, I tried it and just didn't like the feeling or workflow of the software. So I did a bunch of research. Pro Tools was going to be my next choice but then I didn't want to have to buy another interface as I just got one. I thought about Sonar but considering that it was PC only and I intended to get a Mac eventually(which I did and its awesome) that was out the window. Well long story longer I decided on Presonus Studio One v2 Professional. I love the simplistic approach, reminds me of Acid on steroids. Pretty much everything fits on to one screen so I'm not opening and closing windows constantly. The Professional also features a full Mastering suite so once I finish the track I can send it over with one click. I haven't worked with a ton of mastering stuff but the Pro EQ is great, it is similar to the new Waves EQ which I understand is pretty damn good. The compression isn't that great by default but with some tweaking it gets the job done. Also, once I am happy with the song it even will upload it to soundcloud for me with all the codes intact, or I can burn a DDP which I don't need quite yet. And the CD burning feature is very similar to Adobe Audition which works great for me. Now I have a long way to go with producing but Maschine and Studio One have made learning an enjoyable experience.

mostapha
02-10-2012, 06:46 PM
So I did a bunch of research. Pro Tools was going to be my next choice but then I didn't want to have to buy another interface as I just got one. You haven't had to buy one of their interfaces since Pro Tools 9 came out in late 2010.

Also, let me second that Maschine is kind of awesome. You couldn't pay me enough to switch from a Maschine to a Mikro (without giving me enough money to just buy another Maschine), though. Only having 1 knob makes the thing a joke.

spirez
02-10-2012, 08:02 PM
I'm about to dive in and get Logic from the Mac App Store. Can't believe it's only £140 now. I nearly dropped £500 on a solid copy a few months back!

Will probably tangle with Ableton at some point as I know a few guys using it who can show me the ropes.

TBA
02-10-2012, 11:52 PM
I'm using Reason and Pro Tools. I am a beginner in production but so far I like the creativity of Reason and the technical aspect. It mimics real hardware so if you were to buy a real synth of the sort, I'm pretty sure I could figure it out easily.
Pro Tools=industry standard. Once you get over the learning curve, the work flow is nice.

Hygro
02-11-2012, 04:00 AM
Pro Tools=industry standard. Once you get over the learning curve, the work flow is nice.
err what industry?

Most the electronic folks are on ableton or logic, and a lot of the non electronic operations have moved to logic as well.

Andrew B
02-11-2012, 05:14 AM
err what industry?

Most the electronic folks are on ableton or logic, and a lot of the non electronic operations have moved to logic as well.

The music industry. Which has nothing to do with the dance music scene, of course.

That's a serious non-sarcastic post.

login
02-11-2012, 11:03 AM
^I wouldn't doubt some EDM labels from time to time send music to be mastered at pros studios, in which of course they'll be using a protools system.

mostapha
02-11-2012, 03:22 PM
Or one of a dozen software packages actually made for mastering. Plus, at that point, they're just using stereo wav/aiff files, so it doesn't matter what it was made on.

Pro tools is definitely still the standard. That doesn't necessarily make it the best, but I happen to like it.

Atomisk
02-11-2012, 05:00 PM
I use live, and I'm just starting to get into Logic. I'll probably rewire the two together in some fashion. FL gets a lot of hate but I've been doing a collab with another producer on it and the workflow is just great.

I hate pro tools with a passion... Despise everything about it :smash:

mostapha
02-12-2012, 02:22 AM
AFAIK, neither Logic nor Live can work as a rewire slave. They both function as master only the last time I checked. Check the manuals before you try that.

Also, I have respect for FL and know some talented people who do it. But if there's a spectrum in workflows…FL is on one end and PT is on the other. I love PT and absolutely can't stand FL. I'd never get anything done.

Also, if there's that spectrum…Ableton is of somewhere by itself on its own access being stalked by Bitwig…and things like Maschine and the new MPC computer series are hopping up on the horizon desperately screaming, "I'm not just a beat maker anymore…I can play with the big boys too!!" and generally being almost right about it.

spirez
02-12-2012, 07:07 AM
Just bought Logic Pro 9, looking forward to getting started!

I'm also tempted to get Ableton Live Intro to mess around with. How could I make the two work together with Intro's more limited capabilities when compared to the full version?

Would it be a case of bouncing the Ableton tracks down into audio files and using in logic? The intro version can only use 8 Live instruments at one time but can use up to 64 audio tracks. So my workaround would be to bounce a midi track down to audio and work like that? Or am I totally off the mark?

I have people on hand that can help me with both so hopefully the learning curve will be a little easier than going it alone, hence why I'm thinking of getting both as that's what they use.

spirez
02-12-2012, 07:16 AM
I'm thinking maybe I should have done a clean install of OS X before getting started as I want to get the comp cleaned out and start with a blank canvas so that it runs smoothly.

Is it simply a case of redownloading the app from the Mac App Store? I won't run into licensing issues will I?

Also, is my Rane SL3 going to be a good starting place as my soundcard? Don't really want to drop any more money on the setup at the moment!

Chay
02-12-2012, 07:23 AM
I'm thinking maybe I should have done a clean install of OS X before getting started as I want to get the comp cleaned out and start with a blank canvas so that it runs smoothly.

Is it simply a case of redownloading the app from the Mac App Store? I won't run into licensing issues will I?

Also, is my Rane SL3 going to be a good starting place as my soundcard? Don't really want to drop any more money on the setup at the moment!

I don't think you should have any problems, if you have the CD-Key that is :)

spirez
02-12-2012, 08:21 AM
No keys! It's a download from the Mac App Store now so no physical copy

Chay
02-12-2012, 08:25 AM
No keys! It's a download from the Mac App Store now so no physical copy

Oh right, then it's connected to your iTunes account. Should be fine.

spirez
02-12-2012, 12:08 PM
Cool.

Is there any use for Audacity on a computer that has Logic? If not, I'll get rid of it.

Hygro
02-12-2012, 02:25 PM
well it probably uses less computer power, but I don't use it at all anymore.

mostapha
02-12-2012, 07:08 PM
No, audacity is useless.

Mystic
02-12-2012, 07:25 PM
I use Audacity for converting wav to mp3. That's about it.

Mike Raunchy
02-12-2012, 09:19 PM
You haven't had to buy one of their interfaces since Pro Tools 9 came out in late 2010.

Also, let me second that Maschine is kind of awesome. You couldn't pay me enough to switch from a Maschine to a Mikro (without giving me enough money to just buy another Maschine), though. Only having 1 knob makes the thing a joke.

Haha Thanks for the correction Mostapha. I guess I didn't do a "bunch" of research on Pro Tools.Maybe I should punch my friend who produces and told me that? I'm still happy with my choice and I got a steal on the Mikro. I bet if I was used to the full Maschine I wouldn't like it but as pretty much being my first piece of Production software/hardware it was more than adequate.

mostapha
02-13-2012, 08:10 AM
If your friend has been at it for a while, he might not know. Pro Tools is one of those things that you have to commit to…you just don't upgrade it, your computer, or your OS until something doesn't work…because the upgrade will probably break something.

Hopefully now that they're less dependent on their own hardware, stuff like that won't happen anymore. That being said, 10 was a pretty big upgrade over 7.3 LE (last version I owned…I think I've also used 8.something HD and I know I've used 7.4 HD), but it was also the first one that I believe is actually worth the cost……mostly because it's the second version to not require Avid/digi hardware. The first version (9) was apparently so buggy, they pushed out 10 in like a year. I think I bought my mbox2 with 7.3 in 2006.

Austin GoGreen
02-13-2012, 08:48 AM
I've tried Reason, wasn't for me. Ableton was cool but I didn't spend too much time with it. I just trust FL Studio over them. It's what I learned theory with. I learned to mix and produce with it. I then got into DJing and discovered edits. I learned to make my own mashups and edits with it. FL does everything I need and I have a great feel for it. I can create edits with ease on FL Studio.

Ableton is something I will definitely try again in the future.

Sedna
02-13-2012, 12:08 PM
I use FLStudio. I've been told for years that there is "better" production software, but to that I say "meh." There's no reason to use anything else for me. With the upgrade to FL10 it has really become a very powerful and competitive DAW. It's not worth spending a large amount of time learning a brand new DAW for only very minor and relatively unfounded claims of sound improvement.

Sylenth1 is a great plugin; I use it for a lot of my synths. I have Massive, Nexus and Vanguard as well, all of which I use fairly regularly. Sytrus is very powerful, too.


Always remember, though: The talent is in the musician, not the software.

aleksvanrohrer
02-13-2012, 07:44 PM
Logic for writing / arrangements and Pro tools for editing / eqing etc.

thehadgi
02-13-2012, 08:00 PM
Today I'm deciding to try out some demos of other software. I've only used Ableton seriously up to this point, about 2 years now, and I feel pretty comfortable with it and produced a short ep with it, but it's time to check and see if there might be any options that might fit my workflow better. I've been happy with ableton, but I honestly do not take advantage of the clip view ever, it's more of a hindrance to me than a plus. And although the mixer view has become intuitive to me, it's becoming harder for me to keep a fast workflow with it. So I'm DL'ing a pro tools demo now, along with cubase (sonar seems to be for windows only, and presonus... probably not going to bother). I've demo-d Reason, and in my opinion it has a tough time functioning as a DAW, and as a rewire slave I feel I have other tools than I can use faster than Reason.

Will update on my thoughts on Pro Tools and Cubase in a short while, coming from an Ableton user's perspective :D

Edit: 27 bucks to trial Cubase? meh.... maybe I'll see if I can get my hands on a demo of Logic orsomething. Or might try personus one after all

drop1
02-13-2012, 08:22 PM
I love fl but after doing a/b comparison between fl 10 ,ableton (demo) and cubase 6 with every soft synth I actually use (predator,massive,Zebra2 and Sylenth1 mostly) I have found that fl studio has a bit of a blurry bottom end and lacks the sparkle in the highs the other daws have. This wouldn't be a big deal for me except It really adds up when you start using multiple instruments. I was really hoping it wasn't so because I LOVE Fl studios work flow but I cant unhear what has been heard. I've read tons of information on both sides of the fence which is what led me to these test in the first place.

mostapha
02-13-2012, 08:25 PM
I use FLStudio. I've been told for years that there is "better" production software, but to that I say "meh." There's no reason to use anything else for me.…relatively unfounded claims of sound improvement.

Yeah. I'm not convinced that one DAW sounds better or worse than another. It's all about what you can get out of them. I wouldn't use FL, but that's partially because I feel the same way about PT and because there is no force on earth that could make me use Windows seriously again. I also just didn't like it when I tried it back in like '05, and that left a bad taste in my mouth.


Always remember, though: The talent is in the musician, not the software.

:stupid: :stupid:


So I'm DL'ing a pro tools demo now, along with cubase…Edit: 27 bucks to trial Cubase? meh.... maybe I'll see if I can get my hands on a demo of Logic orsomething. Or might try personus one after all

You have to buy an iLok to run the PT 10 demo, so that's $50 for a dongle. I paid it, and I'm glad…but I'm also going to buy PT 10 pretty soon and was pretty sure I would…just wanted to make sure it'd work on my computer. That is, of course, assuming you don't already own plugins that use the iLok. At any rate, if you're taking things seriously, you'll probably need an iLok at some point.


I've demo-d Reason, and in my opinion it has a tough time functioning as a DAW, and as a rewire slave I feel I have other tools than I can use faster than Reason.

Agreed. When they incorporated Record into it, it got better…at least it can do audio now. But I haven't been the least bit impressed. The experience of working with it is not like the experience of working on an SSL console (which is what it's supposed to emulate) and the UI becomes a tremendous hassle. I'd only use it through ReWire at this point, and I kind of just haven't. I might as well delete the demo, because it's just taking up space.

ezelkow1
02-13-2012, 08:32 PM
You could also look at reaper, similar workflow to standard daws, and its fully customizable

aleksvanrohrer
02-13-2012, 08:32 PM
Agreed. When they incorporated Record into it, it got better…at least it can do audio now. But I haven't been the least bit impressed. The experience of working with it is not like the experience of working on an SSL console (which is what it's supposed to emulate) and the UI becomes a tremendous hassle. I'd only use it through ReWire at this point, and I kind of just haven't. I might as well delete the demo, because it's just taking up space.

Nothing compares to or sounds like the analogue piece of gear :P. The SSL plug ins by waves don't sound the same as running your gear through the actual console or using it's compressor.

mostapha
02-13-2012, 09:20 PM
In general, yes, analog gear and digital gear tend to sound different, just like individual pieces of analog gear or different plugins. I just say "meh." IMHO, the biggest difference is workflow and whether you have or can get controllers good enough to have a good experience at using plugins/synths/DAWs or if you're happy enough using a mouse.

I'm looking at hardware synths because of that. But I don't think I'll ever buy an analog console, even if I had more money than I knew what to do with.

When it comes to the 4000 consoles, flawed models are mostly because they've all been in service since '78 or so. They're all varying levels of broken, so the noise, signal degradation, and harmonic distortion caused by its components isn't something that you can really model in software…and a lot of it isn't stuff you'd want.

Considering that only a dozen or so people on this board have ever been in the same room with one and that this thread is supposed to be about software…this is probably an academic argument…

The difference is a lot smaller than most people think.

As an easy example, if it's still up…art & science of studio recording did a sighted presentation of PT HD7 and a Neve 88RS summing the same 4 tracks. I can hear a difference, but I realized it about the same time I realized I could hear the noise floor on my DJ mixer. The difference is very subtle, but if I had to choose, I actually prefer the digitally summed version.

Workflow is a different issue, but it's a gap that might be closing rapidly, though it's probably going to be insanely expensive for a long time to come. And frankly I'd be much happier with something that sounded clean and awesome and had a good, straightforward workflow. And it doesn't take a $700,000 console to achieve that. And IMHO that master bus compressor is not worth the remainder. Not by a long shot. So, if you've got access to one, awesome. But if you're working with software anyway, why would you waste that much of your screen real estate on something that looks kinda like a 4000G+ but neither sounds nor behaves like one…when every other DAW on the planet seems to do it better.

They make good synth racks, and a lot of awesome tracks and beats come out of reason. But IHNFC what they were thinking.

(in case you're wondering, yes, I've been in the room with a 4000G+)

Elliottt
02-14-2012, 04:21 AM
It's also easier to re-order plugins in PT.


You may not be aware (a lot of people I know aren't) when using the hand tool to rearrange plugs in logic you can place plug-ins directly inbetween others.

If you drag the plug-in to an already occupied insert slot and you see a solid yellow boarder around the slot it means it will replace the excisting plug with the new one you dragged over it. However if you position the plug so that you see one horizontal solid yellow line, it will position the dragged plug between the two insert slots (creating a new one for the new plug)

This to me makes re ordering plugs very quick and easy

Hope this helps

TopangaS2k
02-14-2012, 12:43 PM
I started with Ableton. I didnt like the workflow and found it very confusing. I then picked up Logic 9 and have stuck with it since. I prefer a linear workflow since its more intuitive to me.
I have been thinking of checking out Reason as well but i guess that could be considered going backwards in the production world. lol All in all, Logic is a beast. Ive had it for 6 months now and ive only just scratched the surface with what it can do. :)

mostapha
02-14-2012, 12:55 PM
@elliot, I did not know that. It's still marginally faster in PT, but that's awesome. You just saved me so much time…you have no idea.

Now I just have to figure out how to split a Stereo Bus into mono channels without a lot of trickery.

Austin GoGreen
02-14-2012, 02:38 PM
oops... double post

Austin GoGreen
02-14-2012, 02:42 PM
I use FLStudio. I've been told for years that there is "better" production software, but to that I say "meh." There's no reason to use anything else for me. With the upgrade to FL10 it has really become a very powerful and competitive DAW. It's not worth spending a large amount of time learning a brand new DAW for only very minor and relatively unfounded claims of sound improvement.

Sylenth1 is a great plugin; I use it for a lot of my synths. I have Massive, Nexus and Vanguard as well, all of which I use fairly regularly. Sytrus is very powerful, too.


Always remember, though: The talent is in the musician, not the software.

I haven't updated in a couple years... I'm still using FL8 I beleive. I'm pretty comfortable in 8, not sure I want to upgraded because of having to relearn certain things. Is the upgrade easy to pickup?

drop1
02-14-2012, 03:04 PM
You still do things pretty much the exact same way it just got a few new features and a boost to sound quality. I went from version 3 to 9 to 10 all in one year with no problem. In fact some of the demo projects in 10 are from version 6.

Austin GoGreen
02-14-2012, 06:20 PM
Thanks homie

Elliottt
02-16-2012, 08:47 PM
@elliot, I did not know that. It's still marginally faster in PT, but that's awesome. You just saved me so much time…you have no idea.

Now I just have to figure out how to split a Stereo Bus into mono channels without a lot of trickery.

Since Logic 9 and the introduction of mono auxiliaries, it has made this area of Logic a little more tolerable. However you still can't (easily) send a mono channel strip to a single output on your interface. Logic only outputs to your interface in stereo pairs (output 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 ect) It's still doable with a bit of tricky routing and panning, but it's not exactly elegant.

I have to admit Pro Tools still shines at routing and panning (you still have to use the balance plug to do true stereo panning in Logic) However I much prefer the workflow of Logic. I can't stand the midi editing/compositing in Tools (but to be fair I learnt Pro Tools when it was still on version 6-7, it has grown a lot in the midi department since then, I just have not used it.

mostapha
02-16-2012, 08:53 PM
Yeah…I learned MIDI in PT on 7.3, and I honestly didn't have any serious qualms about it. I didn't use anything earlier than that, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about. It had a draw mode and would record off a keyboard just fine. Then again, maybe I'm just not using Logic or Live to their fullest in that area.

What is supposed to be weird about it? The best I've heard is "things are just faster in [Logic|Ableton|Reason|whatever]". I mean…I don't think it matters much for the way I do things right now, since I'm doing just about all the midi sequencing in Maschine anyway…but PT's editing and mixer just seem so much more powerful/simple/straightforward that it wins because of that.

Elliottt
02-16-2012, 09:25 PM
The main thing that drew me towards Logic over Pro Tools when I began learning the two was the fact you wernt tied down to any particular interface with logic (i know that's not the case now with Tools but it was when I was first starting out) I know logic is tied to the mac but I grew up on macs so that wasnt an issue to me. Also when Apple first introduced Logic Studio (Logic 8), they slashed the price by more than half, as well as including a whole bunch of quality plugs and loops that no other competitor could compete with at the time. it was the biggest bang for your buck in my opinion. (still is, especially at the new price of $200) so I bought it, along with an Apogee Duet and luckily the workflow just clicked with me. I've been happy with Logic ever since.

Advice for those starting out...

Try the demos of all the DAWs out there and decide which one suites your workflow best. They all have different workflows, for me logic suited me, for others it will be ableton, cubase, pro tools ect.

TheFrenchWay
02-16-2012, 09:39 PM
Logic is VERY user friendly with the starter user and it can be complex aswell for the advanced users. I had FL Studio in 2008 and couldn't work with it properly for the simple fact that the layout and dark colors just bothered me too much. it clouded my inspirations. I jumped over to Reason and nothing convinced me to stay with it so I leaped over to Logic. Here I am still rocking with Logic Pro 9.
I used the Launch Pad version of Ableton live for a bit. I had my fun then sold it.

I'm curious to see what Logic PRO X will look like.

mostapha
02-16-2012, 09:40 PM
Agree wholeheartedly with Elliot's advice, though I land on Pro Tools and Maschine (right now). It is annoying to have to buy an iLok to run the PT10 demo, but I really didn't mind.

And Logic really is the best bang for your buck.

There's just a couple things that I think are enough better in PT…mostly its mixer routing, some UI stuff, and the new channel strip, which is really useable. Plus, I still just like the BF76 compressor. I'll probably crossgrade with my next paycheck.

I'm curious about Logic X as well, but I doubt they'll do enough to really swing me over. Logic 9 was a stop-gap for me when I realized I just didn't want to screw with Ableton anymore and thought my computer wouldn't run PT.

Wurli
02-18-2012, 01:30 AM
I started on Fruity Loops, then moved to Reason, dabbled in Garage band, used Logic for a while, and am now trying to learn Cubase. I never really liked FL and Reason is a bit "weak", unless paired with Logic, and Garage Band was kind of useless for me. Cubase 6 is great, but for some reason I've been having difficulty getting a feel for the interface, maybe due to the fact that I don't have much time for the whole producing thing these days. Overall, I liked Logic the best...its just so logical.