CDJ: Denon VS Pioneer

[Will MaXimal]

Thinking of getting a pair of Denon DNS - 3500. I owned CDJ 1000 MK2's and want something similar in scratch response and jog wheel response.


Thoughts?

[DJ Highline]

How much do you want to spend?

[Will MaXimal]

Well, as little as possible of course.


I just want something that has the same feel and functionality as the CDJ-800 MK2/CDJ 1000 MK2. Looking to buy a pair.

[Will MaXimal]

Well, as little as possible of course.


I just want something that has the same feel and functionality as the CDJ-800 MK2/CDJ 1000 MK2. Looking to buy a pair.

Found a deal on two CDJ-400 and DDM400 for $800 so thinking of that... My only concern is that the CDJ-400 platter is small and i like the feel of a big platter.

[Chewns]

Massive sticker drift/ cue slip on the Denons.

[DJ Highline]

You can probably get into some used Denon S3700s for $5-600 each

[Pri yon Joni]

Denon DNS-3500

Known issues

1 Laser sometimes has a hard time reading discs. (Pioneer does work on making sure it does the best job reading reading scratched CD's; a lightly scratch CD may not play on a 3500, but may play flawlessly on a CDJ)
2 Pressing play may sometimes jump because of misreading platter motion.
3 Pitch values are hard to pin point (example...you want the value +3.50, but it skips between 3.6 and 3.4)
4 Read startup is slow.
5 Too many sub menus and multifunction buttons and knobs (to change simple stuff like pitch range, you have to hold this, wait for this to blink, scroll this, now hold that button)
6 Very digital sound quality when scratching
7 Plastic piece that hold the platter in place easiy breaks (good luck find another one)
8 You cannot pitch bend like a traditional turntable, the top spindle is the motion sensor, twisting it can launch your speed way up; outer platter is too slippery to drag (it makes you go, what's the freakin point of having a moving platter - you're stuck to using the wonderful pitch bend buttons)

Explanation from Denon designer who came to DJ Supply to teach me about the player when I worked there, I'm sorry I forgot his name and lost his card but the convo was like this:

Me: I hear a lot about the 3500 having trouble reading discs.
Denon: Well DJ's need to start using high quality CD's and they are using aging CD burners.
Me: Well, I never have that problem with Pioneer, but so many CD's I use don't even read on the DNS, what's up with that?
Denon: Well, we wanted to make it a price competitive player, it would be a more expensive unit if we did all that....let me show you the effects.

Price competitive? I just want my CD's to freakin play.

Sorry, not trying to Denon bash, but I do hate the 3500. I worked on 2 different pairs and 2 residencies, for 2 years....(i just noticed the constant number 2) and it was hell. The 5000's and the 3000's that came before them weren't so badly designed. If I have a "CD" player, I want it to at least be good at playing "CD's". Logically that's what you would expect right? I don't give @#$ about no built it flanger, echo, and filter.

During the time, I concluded, you want a turning platter? Stick to real turntables. CD players aren't meant to be turntables, turntables are meant to be turntables. You want a reliable cd deck, stick to a non turntable CDJ. You want the vinyl feel? Get a turntable.

Of course, over the years, the improvements brought us the Numark NS7 and V7 as well as the new Denon decks that are out; but the 3500 is the second worse turntable plattered CD deck next to the Technics CD player.

Stick to your 1000's.

[Tektonix]

Yeah the 3500's are a bit dated /: Like really dated, buggy and just not one of denons best products tbh. Your probably best going with the 800's/1000's if that's all you really want feature wise. 400's are nice, but yeah the platter is a bit small if you like big ones :lol: The 1000's Feel MASSIVE Compared To 400's, Thats a killer deal though for the 400's and DDM. If you can stretch and want something a bit newer denons 3700's are AMAZING, Or the CDJ 850's, Also Re-Loops RMP3's are pretty fucking sweet. Anything more than that your looking at over a grand a deck /:

[ampnation]

Also, whether you meant DJM400 or DDM4000 (you said DDM400) I wouldn't want either. The DDM4000 has quality issues I consider a deal breaker and the DJM400 doesn't have balanced master outs which is also a deal breaker for me.

[Sean]

Having played on both Denons and Pioneers, I can tell you the Denons definitely do NOT have the same feel as the pioneers. They feel like plastic toys under my fingers.

[Will MaXimal]

What about the CDJ 400? Anyone think its better to get a full size platter?

[Mark_Spit]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I love my 3500. I've never had any issues with it and have owned it for about 4 years since new.

Some of the problems or shortcomings Pri yon Joni mentions I've either never experienced or somewhat agree with. Keep in mind it has never left the house.

1 Laser sometimes has a hard time reading discs. - never experienced this

2 Pressing play may sometimes jump because of misreading platter motion - n.e.t.

3 Pitch values are hard to pin point (example...you want the value +3.50, but it skips between 3.6 and 3.4) - not sure about this one as I never pay much attention to it.

4 Read startup is slow - Seems pretty fast to me, but because I don't have too much experience with other decks he may very well be right.

5 Too many sub menus and multifunction buttons and knobs (to change simple stuff like pitch range, you have to hold this, wait for this to blink, scroll this, now hold that button) - Gotta agree with this one. You do get used it though.

6 Very digital sound quality when scratching - Doesn't sound very digital at all to me. The brake function however, sounds pretty digital.

7 Plastic piece that hold the platter in place easiy breaks (good luck find another one) - Definitly agree. I have a bag of spares :D

8 You cannot pitch bend like a traditional turntable, the top spindle is the motion sensor, twisting it can launch your speed way up; outer platter is too slippery to drag (it makes you go, what's the freakin point of having a moving platter - you're stuck to using the wonderful pitch bend buttons) - Yes and no. It's not exactly like a real turntable, but it's close enough that you can adjust and compensate for. I've gotten used to it buy using the 7", not the platter edge.

With all that said, if were to get another deck, I'd get the DN-S1200 - smaller, less expensive and still has most of the functions I like from the 3500.

[electricsmooth]

I have the Denon 3700s and they work great with no issues ever. Just donb't like the fact that they are not natively supported by either traktor or Serato

[DJArmani]

The Denon S5000's may be the best cd deck by Denon.

[JamminDownJD]

Absolutely loved the Denon DN-S3700s. I sold them in anticipation of the new CDJs that are coming out by both Denon and Pioneer. I almost wish that I hadn't. They were the most fun decks next to Technics SL1200 turntables. I'm holding out before getting replacements to see what Pioneer will do in response to the Denon DJ SC3900 (Engine/Spinning Platter/Hybrid) and Denon DJ SC2900 (Engine/Static/Hybrid/Traktor), if any. Denon DJ really came out with some winners this year!

I also absolutely love my Pioneer CDJ-400s. I still use them as native controllers for Serato Scratch Live. Not the greatest for scratching, but my pair of CDJ-400s, Rane SL1 Serato interface, and Denon DN-X600 2-channel mixer are housed in a very compact Odyssey coffin with a laptop shelf and wheels. I could have replaced them for a much lighter Pioneer DDJ-S1 controller, but I don't like ITCH and I'm a Scratch Live guy. The CDJ-400s can also read USB drives (with some limitations). They are fun decks, but they do not have the precise control of larger decks.

I'm not a fan of the Denon DN-3500s. Too buggy, and they are discontinued anyway. If you insist on legacy products (read: older but cheaper and discontinued), look at Pioneer CDJ-800MKIIs, Denon DN-S3700s (if you care for spinning platters), Pioneer CDJ-400s, or Pioneer CDJ-1000MKIIIs for MP3 support.

[Tektonix]

What about the CDJ 400? Anyone think its better to get a full size platter?

I Dont Mind Mine Coming From The DNS-1200's Though With Also A Small Platter, I Gotta Say CDJ 1000/800/2000/900 And Similar Sized Decks Feel REALLY FUCKING BIG Compared To The 400's. If Its Something You Can Live With (ie:Dont Scratch Really) Then They Are Awesome, If You Really Need Dat Big Ass Platta, Then Its Gonna Feel Really Fucking Awkward /:

[Will MaXimal]

I Dont Mind Mine Coming From The DNS-1200's Though With Also A Small Platter, I Gotta Say CDJ 1000/800/2000/900 And Similar Sized Decks Feel REALLY FUCKING BIG Compared To The 400's. If Its Something You Can Live With (ie:Dont Scratch Really) Then They Are Awesome, If You Really Need Dat Big Ass Platta, Then Its Gonna Feel Really Fucking Awkward /:

Ive owned the CDJ 800/1000 and I like the big platter haha. Thats my only beef with small platter CD Decks.

[Blueprint]

yeah, the bigger, sturdier platter made it easier for me, coming from a vinyl background. I cannot understand how anyone can use a platter smaller than the cdj 800/1000... it's just too small.

[DJ Que Yi]

The Denon S5000's may be the best cd deck by Denon.

I've been looking into the S5000's and was wondering if they are still relevant and as good today (I want to use with Serato) as they were when they were first released. I've seen a few good used deals for $400 a pair. What's your experience with them and why would you say they are probably the best cd deck by Denon?

[DJArmani]

I've had mine for about a year. They're great with serato the platter still feels kind of like the 3700 platter but not as shitty. The pitch adjust on there is the best. There's so many features also such as the mirror mix, sample mode, etc. They also can be easily fixed, for example, mines started to skip so i popped it open and cleaned the cd changer thing you can easily unscrew the 5000 for any maintainance. They also can take a beating I dropped one by mistake, pretty hard :uhoh: and it still worked :D

[DJ Nutty]

yeah, the bigger, sturdier platter made it easier for me, coming from a vinyl background. I cannot understand how anyone can use a platter smaller than the cdj 800/1000... it's just too small.

Really ? I dont understand why you need to move the platter soo much on a CDJ that it's even an issue ? Unless you're doing scratching n stuff.

[Alex Murphy]

My first cd players didn't have a jog wheel, only backwards/forwards and pitch bend buttons :P

Though I'll agree to a certain extent, smaller jog wheels feel less precise because of their very nature.