Why should I learn to beatmatch?

[Atomisk]

Title says it all. Asking on behalf of a friend.

[Paulie65m]

The Ear is more accurate then a computer, cdj etc....

[Manu]

:facepalm:

DjF 1.0 rehash: many will autosync, few will be DJs


I swear, when we get automated cars, people will ask why they should learn to drive.

[Nicadraus]

Because it is essential. Anybody who wants to DJ should and must learn how to do it by ear and not by visuals or by just pressing the autosync button.

Those who are too lazy to learn should oblige themselves by learning the proper way to beat match.

[DJ Weatherman]

BEACUSE THAT WHAT A DJ DOES. if you dont want to learn how to beatmatch then stop calling yourself a dj or stay in the bedroom. please.

[Andrew B]

Because he won't always be in a situation where he can use autosync or whatever other crutch he relies on.

[Manu]

Because he won't always be in a situation where he can rely on autosync.

All you need is one gig where the guy gets placed behind a conventional setup because "he's a DJ" and makes himself look like a clueless fool. No autosync, no mixedinkey, no gridding, no preset tracklists, where's me lifejacket?

[Nicadraus]

All you need is one gig where the guy gets placed behind a conventional setup because "he's a DJ" and makes himself look like a clueless fool. No autosync, no mixedinkey, no gridding, no preset tracklists, where's me lifejacket?

I would like to see this happen to so many people who claim that they are great DJs. :D

[Andrew B]

I would like to see this happen to so many people who claim that they are great DJs. :D

I saw two guys that were used to Traktor and a controller try to spin with SSL and 1200s. It wasn't pretty, even with the damn waveforms. :lol:

[Manu]

I would like to see this happen to so many people who claim that they are great DJs. :D

Quick translation: sorry guys I can't play this tonight as my CD is scratched like fuck and I don't have a backup.

Of course you will notice: 40 seconds of dead air before recue and play :rolleyes:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zx0YYRb5VI


*cuts the wrong fader - Wooooooo that was so smooth man


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20zFNZDWPrk

fancy a pauly douche video?

[Liam]

It's quite funny you say this, i know someone that has been bragging for months about how good he is.. Put him on two CDJ's and a mixer the other day and watched the trainwrecking begin..

It's a fundamental if you want to be taken serious and prove you are a good DJ.

[Nicadraus]

It's a fundamental if you want to be taken serious and prove you are a good DJ.

Agreed! :tup:

[Ignotus]

:facepalm:

DjF 1.0 rehash: many will autosync, few will be DJs


I swear, when we get automated cars, people will ask why they should learn to drive.

thats bloody brelient .... i will use this analogy from now on

[Kingbob182]

I tried mixing on vinyl for the first time about 3 months ago. I'd been mixing on CDJs for about 2.5 years before that. Wasnt THAT hard. I mean I still have a lot of respect for guys who mix on vinyl, Im not saying that beatmatching on vinyl is easy. Im just saying the transition from cdj mixing to vinyl is really not that hard if you understand how a record plays and have a basic ability to judge the approx bpm just by ear (Which you should, be able to if you've been mixing for a while anyway).
I love beatmatching on vinyl now. Ive still only had maybe 4 hours practice in total but I want to buy some TTs now. I love the feel on control when youre physically touching the tables and slowing it down.
If youre not learning to beatmatch, you're missing out on half the fun IMO.

I just need to get used to finding the beginning of a track after I find the right tempo

[Rothgery]

Atomisk you have been around the forums for quite some time, since 1.0 with all the thousands and thousands of autosynch/beatmatch debate and dead horses beat why would you make a thread like this, unless your just trying to stir the pot....


Consistent gigs... Every thursday, friday saturday. I'm the resident DJ for the #1 Ranked frat at PSU (Delta Chi) and the Rugby team. I'm working on nailing down a residency at a new nightclub that's opening up. Also made leaps and bounds in regards to production.

If you get all these consistent gigs, you should be able to answer your friend pretty easily without making a thread thats bound to be brought up a million times in the future. Save some server space.

[Lionman]

The way I see it is like this... why would someone bother to learn handwriting if they can type? Why learn how to walk if you can drive? I don't need to be able to read, I can listen to talking books. Why learn to cook if you can just get takeaway?

Ultimately, I'm with Liam on this one "It's a fundamental if you want to be taken serious and prove you are a good DJ."

[Ignotus]

Atomisk you have been around the forums for quite some time, since 1.0 with all the thousands and thousands of autosynch/beatmatch debate and dead horses beat why would you make a thread like this, unless your just trying to stir the pot....



If you get all these consistent gigs, you should be able to answer your friend pretty easily without making a thread thats bound to be brought up a million times in the future. Save some server space.

honestly everything you quoted about him just sounded like a reason to brag... not gunna lie...

[Hygro]

Title says it all. Asking on behalf of a friend.

The drugs aren't mine, I swear!

[moyo wilde]

best answer which is one somebody else gave is that if you are put in front of another kind of setup you need to be able to do a passable job. if you can't beat match it ain't going to happen.

i did a party with another dj. i mixed for about two hours then he did his thing with one of the controllers and serato itch. about 40 minutes into his set the host runs over to me. he wants me to get back on the decks. i ask why cause i want to take a break and chill with some friends for a bit. the reason was because the other dj couldn't use a cd player. he didn't even want him to mix he just wanted him to play his cd so that he could perform, basically just pressing play on the cdj, cause he only had one disc.

also some clubs aren't too happy with you fiddling with their set up. another problem is that if you have to maove a lot of stuff to setup you may have to stay till the party/club closes to get your equipment.

best to be familiar with almost all standard setups.

[Phil Noize]

When the software screws up, real DJing skills are needed.

[Hausgeist]

Atomisk you have been around the forums for quite some time, since 1.0 with all the thousands and thousands of autosynch/beatmatch debate and dead horses beat why would you make a thread like this, unless your just trying to stir the pot....



If you get all these consistent gigs, you should be able to answer your friend pretty easily without making a thread thats bound to be brought up a million times in the future. Save some server space.

All those posts from 1.0 are gone. Maybe, just maybe, Atom has been telling his buddy this stuff, and he wants to show this cat that he is not just making this shit up. Know what I mean?

Then again, it is Atom, so who can tell? :P

http://i41.tinypic.com/r1ddso.gif

[Hygro]

Also, you look super lame if you're on a big technofest setup, geared towards CDJs and stuff, so that you can interacted more directly with the crowd, only to like, have a stupid screen in your way. And to hook that up. When last played the sound guy had to hook and unhook up a traktor rig to the DJM800. When he unhooked them he replaced channels 1 and 4 with CDJ 2000s.

THERE WERE FOUR CDJ-2000s. WHY WOULD YOU EVER NEED TO PLAY ON ANYTHING ELSE?

[Ferryman]

That's like asking if it's ok to bypass talking and go straight to the singing.

[Ignotus]

All those posts from 1.0 are gone. Maybe, just maybe, Atom has been telling his buddy this stuff, and he wants to show this cat that he is not just making this shit up. Know what I mean?

Then again, it is Atom, so who can tell? :P

http://i41.tinypic.com/r1ddso.gif

i think i know what your REALLY saying :p

[de.j.l]

THERE WERE FOUR CDJ-2000s. WHY WOULD YOU EVER NEED TO PLAY ON ANYTHING ELSE?

that made my morning, as long as those CDJS are all linked together that' is a damn prime setup man.

[moyo wilde]

i would also add that showing up with only bangers can be stupid as well. you never know when things are gonna turn another way and you might need to open or close or play to just a few people. one of the worst feelings i had was only having bangers and not enough people.

[Ignotus]

i would also add that showing up with only bangers can be stupid as well. you never know when things are gonna turn another way and you might need to open or close or play to just a few people. one of the worst feelings i had was only having bangers and not enough people.

you should see the folders i bring to each show... BUT on that case, if your a multi thousand dollar paid headliner, i REALLY wouldn't worry about this thing

[mostapha]

The Ear is more accurate then a computer, cdj etc....

That's actually completely wrong. Ableton and Traktor can both be more accurate than a human ever could. That line clearly comes from someone who has never done it (or never done it right).

So, why should you learn it? Because it teaches you to listen to tracks differently. It gives you the opportunity to learn all the skills necessary to play a good DJ set that most people never talk about. And it gives you something to do for those first few weeks/months while you're figuring out how to stop trainwrecking so you don't immediately jump into hot cues, loops, IG effects, and all the other crap that all the controllerists swear is the future and only ends up sounding like noise.

Manual beatmatching is not necessary for a DJ performance to still be DJing in my eyes, but learning to do it is–IMHO–essential to learn how to not suck because of all the ancillary lessons it facilitates and that things like Traktor hide.

[Kingbob182]

That's actually completely wrong. Ableton and Traktor can both be more accurate than a human ever could. That line clearly comes from someone who has never done it (or never done it right).

I agree that its not as accurate. But I think the ear (once you know what youre doing) is more reliable. My CDJs (even with the latest firmware) often show a track to have the same BPM as the last track I loaded. Even when I know its wrong. and you'd wanna be sure you have your beats 'gridded' right.


IMHO, the less software between me and the speakers, the safer I feel.

[Ferryman]

that made my morning, as long as those CDJS are all linked together that' is a damn prime setup man.

Indeed. Sounds like a badass set up!

[Xzentric]

I thought you got banned on the old forum for threads like these

[Sigma]

Why?

1. Cos you can mix on anything with pitch controls, rather than being limited to only equipment that has auto-sync. You may not always be able to take your own gear with you to a gig.

2. Cos you can mix with other DJs if you want to in situations where the setup can't be used to auto-sync your tracks with the other DJ's.

3. Cos while you are learning to beatmatch manually, you get to know your music well. You also get comfortable with using your equipment.

4. Cos it's more rewarding. It takes more skill than just pressing a button, therefore you get more out of it too.

I think every DJ should learn it. Even if they go back to using auto-sync once they have, at least that skill is always there should they ever need it.

[Era 7]

play with sync all you want but learn how to beatmatch first. it is just a basic skill you should have as a DJ.

also i personally think it is quite fun at times :) holding a mix together manually is really just a good feeling.

[CharlieSpriggs]

err uhh well...Let me think

I think, I think it's important. Not totally sure though. Maybe it's not. Ah to hell with it just push the sync button...

*Walks away feeling like a pro!

[KLH]

How else are you going to learn how to synchronize your windshield wipers with your turn signals? That sh*t's cray...

-KLH

[mostapha]

I agree that its not as accurate. But I think the ear (once you know what youre doing) is more reliable. My CDJs (even with the latest firmware) often show a track to have the same BPM as the last track I loaded. Even when I know its wrong. and you'd wanna be sure you have your beats 'gridded' right.

Ultimately, that's why I sold an X1-based TP2 setup and my Ableton rig for an SSL setup. I didn't want to have to deal with beat grids. But from already knowing how to mix on turntables and CDJs and using Ableton then Traktor Pro exclusively for about a year each, the software is more accurate. In Ableton, you could set warp markers down to sample-accurate timing. In Traktor 2, you could get pretty close. At that point, you're more accurate than word clock-induced jitter. No one's ears are that precise.


IMHO, the less software between me and the speakers, the safer I feel.

That's a separate issue and while I don't share the sentiment, I completely understand.


How else are you going to learn how to synchronize your windshield wipers with your turn signals? That sh*t's cray...

-KLH

Yes, that sh*t cray.

[DJMC]

Many many years ago, I couldn't understand the concept....

Once I got a regular bar/club gig, I eventually caught on. Adapt or die! This was before computers.

Now i can say after 22 years of spinning CD's-- that I have a certain comfort level with my Denon DND-9000 dual CD deck, and my Rane MP-44--- having used this board for almost a decade now.

Even wedding receptions benefit from beat matching! I get lots more compliments about my service than before when I did not mix......

[djkvg]

i think auto sync can be helpful... i mean if you're trying to mashup tracks with different BPMs on the fly and trying to transition them quickly then auto sync does help... i guess it opens up to more creative mixing

There is a pro and con to everything... using auto sync doesn't mean u don't know how to beatmatch but it just strays away from being tedious.

i don't use auto sync but i can see the advantages in it.

[Sigma]

Even wedding receptions benefit from beat matching! I get lots more compliments about my service than before when I did not mix......
I think many people just settle for what they can get away with man.

We all know that the music is the most important thing and we also know that there are plenty of bars/clubs/events where you could just fade from track to track and it's not like the crowd would start booing and shouting "get off!!!", but I don't see that as an excuse for not pushing yourself technically too.

From best to worst: -

1. Great tech skills and great tunes
2. Not that great tech skills, but great tunes
3. Great tech skills, but crappy tunes
4. Crap skills and crap tunes

A lot of people seem cool with being in group 2, when they could be in group 1 with practice. This is one of those conversations that we've had many times on the old site, but I don't get why some people still have trouble grasping it. If a person is cool with being in group 2, fine, but when you come to a site full of DJs and you're talking about it almost like you're proud of it, expect to get a verbal slap in the face cos it shows that you lack passion.

[moyo wilde]

... If a person is cool with being in group 2, fine, but when you come to a site full of DJs and you're talking about it almost like you're proud of it, expect to get a verbal slap in the face cos it shows that you lack passion.

for some reason i read this part in a KRS 1 voice.

[dskreet]

Because that's what Dj's do.

[RDRCK]

Tell him or her that there are several things that you pick up while learning how to beat match, other than the skill of beat matching by itself. Mention learning about dance music arrangement, phrase matching, rhythm matching, correct eqing, etc. It's true, all these things could be learned independently, but they all come naturally if one is learning how to beat match manually.

[mostapha]

i guess [sync] opens up to more creative mixing

BS.

There is nothing that I've heard anyone do with autosync, the bridge, maschine with a midi clock, or anything like that which wasn't possible in the 80s. If you're willing to accept that you could be using a groove box as your 3rd deck and were good/fast enough at sampling, I haven't even heard anything with hot cues that couldn't have been done by the time the MPC60 came out.

It's one of the lines often touted by people who don't know any better and are justifying their laziness.

I'm with Sigma's last post. I don't care if you use sync. I did for a couple years and eventually gave it up because I'm way less interested in setting beat grids or warp markers than I am in spinning. If you're going to use it, be honest with everyone else and–more importantly–yourself about why you're doing it. And from someone who's done it both ways, I'm telling you that it ain't because of creativity. It's because in the moment it's easier.


If a person is cool with being in group 2, fine, but when you come to a site full of DJs and you're talking about it almost like you're proud of it, expect to get a verbal slap in the face cos it shows that you lack passion.

Or that their passion is in a different place and one that many of us find insulting, annoying, or just plain lousy.

[c-hawk]

Because it's fun!

[g-sep]

Shit will hit the fan.

[Atomisk]

Atomisk you have been around the forums for quite some time, since 1.0 with all the thousands and thousands of autosynch/beatmatch debate and dead horses beat why would you make a thread like this, unless your just trying to stir the pot....

If you get all these consistent gigs, you should be able to answer your friend pretty easily without making a thread thats bound to be brought up a million times in the future. Save some server space.


All those posts from 1.0 are gone. Maybe, just maybe, Atom has been telling his buddy this stuff, and he wants to show this cat that he is not just making this shit up. Know what I mean?
This. My friend just so happens to be one of the most stubborn people on the planet. We were up until 6 AM (we're roommates) debating the sync button. I've explained to him that sync can fuck up, it's quicker, teaches you fundamentals, saves your ass when you can't use your controller, etc. But he tries to justify it with these BS arguments. I made this thread in an effort to show him what I mean. (He just made an account as Decebal, hopefully he'll reply soon).

I've been trying to get him to learn to play on CDs. I've been telling him all these things, I just needed some people to back me up. Hopefully he realizes the error in his way when he reads this thread.

[Buszaj]

Because it's fun!

I fully agree with this. Beatmatching by ear brings you into a whole new level of DJ'ing (it should be the fundamental level). I feel so much more in touch with the music, almost intimate. Not only are you focused on making a good sounding mix with your EQ's and faders and whatnot, but you're also listening carefully for drift, nudging that platter or moving that pitch as needed. I've never had any gear that allows you to autosync, but it just seems so boring. You already know your tracks are going to stay matched, so that element of DJ'ing is taken out. Many people will say, "oh, but that now gives me room for creativity"...I've yet to see ANYONE on autosync use this opportunity to their advantage.

I suppose I've taken that towards the whole autosync debate. But beatmatching should be a fundamental of DJ'ing, as mentioned. I feel that it's time for a change in definition of what DJ'ing is.

[peterwo2e]

here we go again real dj's vs fake dj's. you guys kill the already dead horse. there is no point here.

[RDRCK]

No implications of realness or fakeness here bud :) I think, though, that most people who have been doing this since before the advent of autosync agree that it behooves a DJ to learn how to mix by ear. It certainly isn't required, but then neither is eating your veggies :shrug:

[Hygro]

When I use traktor for my mobil gigs, I never use sync. The reason is because it's more goddamn work!



Here's why you should learn to beatmatch
Z4dkuYro4t8

[l0ckd0wn]

tmBS;dr

Medium doesn't matter; output does.

Beat matching is a skill and a partial talent deriving from rhythm, and the more tuned your skills are the more versatile you are.

Atom, I'm totally negging you for not putting this in the Beginners section when you know darn well that this is where the conversation belongs.

Also requesting a move to the Beginners section.

[Hausgeist]

:toilet:

[Signal Lost]

But then again.

Ain't a DJ who's able to seamlessly mix without beatmatching more creative than one who does?

I know beatmatching is quite an essential skill, but, finding other seamless ways to mix takes lots of creativity.

[BuddyUK]

True not every style of music can be beatmtched and you should have other tools in your box of tricks but it's still an essential skill.

[Boomcie]

backspin airhorn:slayer:

[Rothgery]

tmBS;dr


Also requesting a move to the Beginners section.

good point

[Paulie65m]

I agree that its not as accurate. But I think the ear (once you know what youre doing) is more reliable. My CDJs (even with the latest firmware) often show a track to have the same BPM as the last track I loaded. Even when I know its wrong. and you'd wanna be sure you have your beats 'gridded' right.


IMHO, the less software between me and the speakers, the safer I feel.

:stupid:

Not to sure how software is accurate, Im only vinyl. But to not know, even the basic of just mixing, beat matching .....a person is bound to trainwreck if just auto sync two tracks with same bpm and walk away , you always have to adjust something especially for djs that are beat matching two tracks and letting both of them ride out for like 10 min

[silentsounds]

This whole beat-matching argument is sort of like a vicious cycle. I've observed it a handful of times among people I do know.

Kid gets into a DJing and buys a controller of some sort with one of the many software solutions out there. His/Her friend who beat matches raves on about how you are not a true DJ if you do not beat match by ear. Kid claims he uses sync to be more creative, blah, blah. One day the kid gets beat matching down and goes on to patronize others he knows for not beat matching by ear. I'm not saying everyone does it, but I've noticed this a lot.

It is an important skill for DJs. But here's my take on it.

1) Laptops, etc. crashing are not life and death situations.
2) If you are getting a gig where you may come across CDs or TTs, then it makes sense to learn it. However, a lot of DJs I know tend to use their own gear or carry their own laptop to use with house equipment.
3) I agree with the above regarding 'creative' mixes. With that said though, look at it this way: Those kids would probably suck a lot more if they were on CDs/TTs.
4) Software, Sync, Beat grids, etc. allow your mixes to be just a little more perfect. Is it wrong to want that? These solutions reduce the number of mistakes one can make for the most part. Ultimately, the output is what matters.

People need to stop using others as a means of justifying what they do. Who cares what the pros are using. Use what you are comfortable with and allows you to do your best work.

You eventually get beat matching down with practice, but even once you have it down you can train wreck. Log onto FW and you'll notice drifting beats from a number of people. (Please don't take this as an insult. I've had my fair share of train wrecks on there)

Gear of any kind can break down. I've had issues with CD decks on FW before for example.

[mavericckk..]

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

[Anomoly]

There is no correct answer to a dumb-*** question

Why should you learn to walk?
Why should you learn to read?
Why should you learn to add?

[Nicadraus]

Not to boast. But believe it or not, but I could hold 4 different tracks with 3 turntables, a CDJ and a 4 channel mixer from start to end of the longest track and doing some other effects using only my ears, hands and mind. I poured many, many hours/days/weeks/months/years to practice before (and up to now) because I believe in developing skills rather than relying on computers. I don't argue and I know that computer softwares are precise and that's what they were/are made for. Of course who would make unreliable softwares with inaccuracies? Common sense right? The thing is, you can never compare any computer program to the intelligence and skill of the human mind. Remember that the equipment is only good as the user. If a person have great gear but shitty skills, then his gear's potential is very limited...

I personally use TSP mainly because:

-for convenience of not lugging heavy record bags/cases
-thousand of tracks
-more effects options

but never for the auto sync, beat sync, tempo sync or any other sync.

[Nicadraus]

But then again.

Ain't a DJ who's able to seamlessly mix without beatmatching more creative than one who does?

I know beatmatching is quite an essential skill, but, finding other seamless ways to mix takes lots of creativity.

BS! Obviously words coming from someone who justifies that auto sync is better than manual beat matching. :P

How long does it take you to match 2 tracks? If you do (beat match by ear) it right, 15 secs tops is all you need to match them.

[Hausgeist]

It is good to see that the more things change, the more they stay the same. 2.0 is picking up right where we left off. :zany:

[Atomisk]

Haus, can you lock this thread? This is getting stupid. I just needed to show my friend I'm not the only one who thinks sync is bad. I should've known any topic concerning sync falls into a shitshow like this.

[Hausgeist]

Haus, can you lock this thread?

I did. Stripe re-opened it. :lol:

[Atomisk]

I did. Stripe re-opened it. :lol:
:facepalm:

[silentsounds]

Sync isn't bad though.

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