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DJ Higgumz
05-16-2012, 07:52 PM
Looking for a moving head that at least has gobo rotation. Hopefully under 500$, going to start with two and then eventually more. I really like martin's products, very reliable and user friendly. What is the cheapest Martin mover? I imagine more than 800, but I'm willing to spend the extra cash for higher grade equip.

Buszaj
05-16-2012, 08:25 PM
Not sure about price, but from Martin, check out the Mac 250 or 250 entour. I'm pretty sure they can be picked up used for a relatively good price. I'm sure some other members here will have more details

Mystic
05-16-2012, 09:06 PM
Martin stuff is well over your budget, but worth every penny.

DJ Higgumz
05-16-2012, 09:18 PM
haha i know that to be true, i got 4 roboscan 812s for just under a hundred each, and 3 cx2s. love them way more than my adj stuff, so i want to continue running all martin. i've been picking up alot of gigs recently, so a couple grand should take maybe a year, call me crazy but martin makes all around great stuff; with chauvet and adj its hard to choose cause they are touch and go. my uncle bought 2 3,000 dollar ones for a show house he was building with a basement bar with led strips, and he had these things shining on the wall. they were heavy as hell as are my 812s, but that's forgiving if that comes with robustness.

DJ Higgumz
05-16-2012, 09:22 PM
just took a look and they are like 2 grand a piece used! i was thinking 800, maybe i'm looking in the wrong places...

DYM
05-16-2012, 09:48 PM
Blizzard Lighting seems to be good.

sss18734
05-16-2012, 09:54 PM
For $800 your best bet is something like the Chauvet Intimidator 350. About as bright as most Discharge 250 bulbs and have a good amount of features.

DJ Higgumz
05-16-2012, 10:28 PM
what about Blizzard Lighting ICE-30 LED? about $500, led with gobo shake, rotation and prism? too good to be true?

DYM
05-16-2012, 11:09 PM
Double the price gets you something double as nice from Blizzard :tup:

Nick_EventPro
05-17-2012, 07:59 AM
MAP on the Ice-30 is 649.99. PM or e-mail me for a quote- I'm a Blizzard dealer.

ICE-30
2 gobo wheels, 9 colors + white, 7 rotating,
slot & lock replaceable gobos + open, 3-facet prism,
sound active, LCD control panel

Blizzard makes great products, though if you can swing a little extra cash I'd recommend the ICE-60. Its a bit brighter and something you'll be able to grow into. Anything else is going to be over your budget.

The pricing on the Martin movers you were looking at are in the right range. You won't find any MAC250, even used, anywhere close to $800. Anything from Martin you'd find around that range is going to be small, and old- at which point its not even worth it in terms of movers. I'd rather have a pair of new Blizzards over old Martins any day.

Synaxis
05-17-2012, 09:35 AM
Surprised no one has mentioned these yet.

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/intimidator-spot-led-250.html

You can get them for $500. MAP is $600.

DJStevieRay
05-17-2012, 10:15 AM
Anything from Martin you'd find around that range is going to be small, and old- at which point its not even worth it in terms of movers. I'd rather have a pair of new Blizzards over old Martins any day.

Hey your stepping on my sales ;) lol

Actually if you are hell bent on Martin's I do have 4 Martin MiniMac's for $500/ea. That's about all you will find in the $500 range for Martin Moving Heads.

CQE DJs
05-17-2012, 11:55 AM
Hey Nick...any big differences between the Ice 60 and the G60...could you PM me prices on both and your recommendations on the 2?

DJStevieRay
05-17-2012, 12:29 PM
I know I'm not Nick, but I thought I would give you an ideal, as I do know a thing or 2 about the lights in question.

G60 is Bigger and brighter with a larger beam angle (ie more coverage), price is almost the same. It really depends on your needs.

If you want compact and light weight get the Ice, If you need brighter and more coverage get the G60.

DJ Donnie Lewis
05-17-2012, 12:32 PM
I have 2 ADJ X-Move Led plus movers if you are interested. Mint condition. Asking 800 obo

CQE DJs
05-17-2012, 12:45 PM
I know I'm not Nick, but I thought I would give you an ideal, as I do know a thing or 2 about the lights in question.

G60 is Bigger and brighter with a larger beam angle (ie more coverage), price is almost the same. It really depends on your needs.

If you want compact and light weight get the Ice, If you need brighter and more coverage get the G60.

Thanks for the heads up. I see the beam angle is 15 for the G60 and 14 for the Ice60. Is that 1 degree really a big difference? And is it that much brighter? I do weddings/sweet 16's up to around 250 max...never more than that. Which do you think would fill my needs better? I would either hang them from a global truss or vertical mount the trussing.

Drewbdo
05-17-2012, 01:03 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I see the beam angle is 15 for the G60 and 14 for the Ice60. Is that 1 degree really a big difference? And is it that much brighter? I do weddings/sweet 16's up to around 250 max...never more than that. Which do you think would fill my needs better? I would either hang them from a global truss or vertical mount the trussing.

I wonder if it is a larger "beam diameter" or a larger scanning radius? My guess would be the scanning radius, as I don't think a 1* larger beam would make that much difference visually... at least not in the distances we would be considering in a venue (ten's of feet).

Nick_EventPro
05-17-2012, 01:40 PM
According to the specs, the ICE60 is brighter.

ICE60:
Luminous Intensity: 29,890 (full white) lux/1m, 7,500 (full white) lux/2m

G60:
Luminous Intensity: 27,800 Lux @ 1 meter, 6,240 Lux @ 2 meters.

G60 is heavier as well. But also the G60 has indexing gobos, while the Ice60 does not. They are very close in price, but the G60 is a bit more expensive. Really, they are in the same class so its a bit of a tradeoff in terms of what features are more important to you. For what it's worth, the G60 is a special order light only now.

Synaxis
05-17-2012, 01:51 PM
But also the G60 has indexing gobos.

Nick, what exactly are indexing gobos? Any videos/examples?

DJStevieRay
05-17-2012, 01:56 PM
Indexing is good for things like custom gobos and monograms. Indexing is to place the gobos in a certain position, and remembering that position.

If you look at my monogram video


http://youtu.be/NISpUzS3DYA

Keeping the gobo's flat, not spinning, and in a prcise position is accomplished by indexing.

Nick_EventPro
05-17-2012, 01:57 PM
Nick, what exactly are indexing gobos? Any videos/examples?

Indexing Gobos allow you to control the gobo rotation position in the light. Here's an example of how it may matter to you...

We have two lights- one with indexing gobo's and the other without.
We insert the same gobo into each light... say the names and initials of a bride and groom for example.

We then fire up both lights and recall the gobo...
Chances are (99.9%) that when the gobo wheel rotated our gobo into position it is not displaying the gobo in proper alignment with how we want it. It might be upside-down, projecting on an angle, in essence rotated some number of degrees of of how we want it displayed... indexing gobos allows you to adjust this rotation and align the gobo how you want. In other words, its critical if your adding gobos that must be displayed in a certain position.

SummitAudioDJ
05-17-2012, 03:04 PM
I bought the Chauvet initimidator spot LED 250's and they are great compact full featured moving heads perfect for small to medium shows. I got them for $550 each at IDJNOW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2-48SHg3bg&list=UUXA6hGwN0NJHe7pRyeJ-sVQ&index=3&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdRQKS_HBSA

CQE DJs
05-17-2012, 03:09 PM
^^Very cool...ideally if you don't have "indexable gobos" you can just rotate the gobo to the value that you wan't so it is straight right?

Nick_EventPro
05-17-2012, 03:30 PM
^^Very cool...ideally if you don't have "indexable gobos" you can just rotate the gobo to the value that you wan't so it is straight right?

No, That's what indexing gobos are...

A Gobo Rotation feature is usually a continuous rotation.

CQE DJs
05-17-2012, 03:56 PM
ahhh gotcha!

Synaxis
05-17-2012, 03:57 PM
Indexing Gobos allow you to control the gobo rotation position in the light. Here's an example of how it may matter to you...

We have two lights- one with indexing gobo's and the other without.
We insert the same gobo into each light... say the names and initials of a bride and groom for example.

We then fire up both lights and recall the gobo...
Chances are (99.9%) that when the gobo wheel rotated our gobo into position it is not displaying the gobo in proper alignment with how we want it. It might be upside-down, projecting on an angle, in essence rotated some number of degrees of of how we want it displayed... indexing gobos allows you to adjust this rotation and align the gobo how you want. In other words, its critical if your adding gobos that must be displayed in a certain position.

Huh, never though of that. Would actually be a useful feature.

As CQE DJs mentioned, I assumed you could rotate it until it turned straight, then just turned off the rotation when it gets into the desired position.

DJStevieRay
05-17-2012, 05:18 PM
You can do that, but then if you run any type of gobo change, and then switch back, your Gobo will be out of allignment.

CQE DJs
05-17-2012, 05:26 PM
That makes sense. Good to know.

DigitalArtDJs
05-18-2012, 11:28 AM
If you are trying to stick to your original budget and are ok with unbadged Ice-60 movers - do a search for "MX Qspot 2000" and you will find them on eBay and elsewhere in your price range.

Synaxis
05-18-2012, 11:53 AM
If you are trying to stick to your original budget and are ok with unbadged Ice-60 movers - do a search for "MX Qspot 2000" and you will find them on eBay and elsewhere in your price range.

I've heard horror stories with buying knock-off moving heads from China.

Silver Man
05-18-2012, 01:36 PM
I've heard horror stories with buying knock-off moving heads from China.

I will second this. I told a friend about purchasing 2 Torrent 90 Spots and he tried to get me to buy 8 250 discharge heads from his Chinese supplier. I ended up with the Torrents because I want reliability. Granted, they are also from China, but they have a much stronger QC department and a nice warranty to back them up.

DigitalArtDJs
05-18-2012, 02:01 PM
I've heard horror stories with buying knock-off moving heads from China.

I have as well and from personal experience I can confirm, it's hit or miss. I did not intend this to be interrupted as an endorsement. It was meant as an option.

BillESC
05-18-2012, 02:24 PM
I bought the Chauvet initimidator spot LED 250's and they are great compact full featured moving heads perfect for small to medium shows. I got them for $550 each at IDJNOW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2-48SHg3bg&list=UUXA6hGwN0NJHe7pRyeJ-sVQ&index=3&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdRQKS_HBSA

That's not the best price available.

DJStevieRay
05-18-2012, 04:49 PM
I bought the Chauvet initimidator spot LED 250's and they are great compact full featured moving heads perfect for small to medium shows. I got them for $550 each at IDJNOW.

They are great compact moving heads, but not full featured, and at $550 the Ice 30 is a better value (IMHO). It is just as small and light as the Intimidator 250 and adds features like dual gobo wheels, and remote focus. It is also almost just as bright.

Intimidator LED spot 250 = 5,970 lux @ 2 m
Ice 30 = 5,300 Lux/2m

So it is a little dimmer, but has a lot more gobos, gobo morphing, remote focus, and a prism. The Intimidator is missing all of those important pieces.

SummitAudioDJ
05-18-2012, 08:15 PM
The ICE 30 does look like a nice fixture as long as you get the new version B that has all the new features you listed. Personally I don't like the look of stacked gobos and like the simplicity of manual focus since I often just run them sound active and don't have a DMX controller with me. The 250 has a 3 facet prism as well.

Both are great choices and very full featured for a moving head under $600.

DJ Higgumz
05-29-2012, 11:18 PM
I came across these clones of the chauvet min spot on eBay, 175$ each (sorry no link). Sounds tempting, but what are your thoughts? I could buy 4 of these for the price of a single more veratile head, but if the end result is a better light show, 4 separate beams is better than what a prism and rotating gobo on a single light could do. The only concern i have is dependability. Has anyone had experience with these lights? Or even the min spot? 8 of these plus my 4 roboscans and cx2s would put on quite a show, I would put the heads on separate tripods or totems :D

SummitAudioDJ
05-30-2012, 08:02 AM
This is an example of exactly what 4 chinese 15 watt moving heads will look like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hyjSQTZaAU&list=UUXA6hGwN0NJHe7pRyeJ-sVQ&index=4&feature=plcp

Very weak and a waste of $700! They use individual 5 watt RGB LED's so you don't always get a true 15w of light unless all 3 are lit to mix white which is never truly white, more like a tan/pink color. Color mixing with them was horrible in general. I had the chinese versions and I'm sure the newer Chauvets with the RGBW LED source would be far better but still not worth $350ea.

Whines
05-30-2012, 08:40 AM
Unless you're planning on using them in a small space, I'd go brighter than 15w.

Synaxis
05-30-2012, 02:47 PM
I came across these clones of the chauvet min spot on eBay, 175$ each (sorry no link). Sounds tempting, but what are your thoughts? I could buy 4 of these for the price of a single more veratile head, but if the end result is a better light show, 4 separate beams is better than what a prism and rotating gobo on a single light could do. The only concern i have is dependability. Has anyone had experience with these lights? Or even the min spot? 8 of these plus my 4 roboscans and cx2s would put on quite a show, I would put the heads on separate tripods or totems :D

Waste of money. Plus, your buying knockoffs, and I quote again "I've heard horror stories with buying knock-off moving heads from China."

I've read countless threads where buying knock-offs almost always resulted in problems. Either a single par was broken, or three out of four moving heads were DOA. Its going to be way to much of a hassle if there is an issue. And shipping takes a while too.

There is a reason why they are so cheap. You get what you pay for.

DJ Higgumz
05-30-2012, 03:19 PM
I was thinking that too, if they aren't dependable it's a no go. How are the min spots themselves? I want lights that will go with my roboscans, which put out only 1200 lux. I either want dimming, or a low power. When I get the money I would go for the ice 30 or 60, providing they are dimmable.

Synaxis
05-30-2012, 05:49 PM
I was thinking that too, if they aren't dependable it's a no go. How are the min spots themselves? I want lights that will go with my roboscans, which put out only 1200 lux. I either want dimming, or a low power. When I get the money I would go for the ice 30 or 60, providing they are dimmable.

MinSpots are a waste of money as well. If you want something in the MinSpot price range, get either the Blizzard Flurry Tris, or the Chauvet Intimidator Scan LED 200's.

Both are dimmable.

DJ Higgumz
05-30-2012, 09:50 PM
I want one with gobos, so the flurry wouldn't work. If I was to pick up used minspots for 125 each, is it worth that?

b.ill
05-31-2012, 05:47 PM
For those of you connected with Blizzard, what's their repair service (both in and out of warranty) like? I'm interested in getting a couple of moving heads, but because of the nature of these beasts I'll weigh ease of repair heavily into my buying decision.

Also I currently have a couple of 250 watt discharge ADJ Fantasy Scans. These things are really too bright for my DJ rooms, but I was curious as to the size of LED moving head it would take to be comparable. If a 60 watt LED is comparable then it would be too much.

Silver Man
06-01-2012, 06:01 AM
I just bought the Blizzard Torrent 90 Spots and before I did so, I contacted Blizzard and got a very fast response. On the Torrents, they said they have about 400 out in use and have only had 3 come back for warranty. That is a less than 1% fail rate. It may be kind of hard to get a good response if not too many are being sent back. I did have an issue with mine (cosmetic) and after a day emailing them, they sent out replacement parts free of charge. Their CS is great to work with and quick to answer emails.

Whines
06-01-2012, 11:23 AM
If you're using DMX, all LED scanners and moving heads I've seen are easily dimmable.

If you need dim fixtures, the world of cheap LED lighting is your oyster. )

GaFFLe
06-01-2012, 03:00 PM
I just bought the Blizzard Torrent 90 Spots and before I did so, I contacted Blizzard and got a very fast response. On the Torrents, they said they have about 400 out in use and have only had 3 come back for warranty. That is a less than 1% fail rate. It may be kind of hard to get a good response if not too many are being sent back. I did have an issue with mine (cosmetic) and after a day emailing them, they sent out replacement parts free of charge. Their CS is great to work with and quick to answer emails.
I think the Torrent 90's started off at $1299 or so. Now I'm seeing them at an outrageous $1999. That's Elation Platinum Spot 5r money.

TreyDingo
06-01-2012, 04:29 PM
For $800 your best bet is something like the Chauvet Intimidator 350. About as bright as most Discharge 250 bulbs and have a good amount of features.

Nobody really responded to this comment (including me) but this light really does look pretty awesome. 75 watt LED with advanced optics that Chauvet claims is brighter than most 90 watts (taken with a grain of salt obviously). 7 interchangeable, rotating, Indexed gobos, and three sided prism. Only 22.7 lbs with dimensions of L10xW13xH15. And a map price of 899. Seems like the biggest downfall is that it only has the one gobo wheel. As far as I can tell this light debuted at namm 2012 so its pretty new. Thoughts?

DJ Higgumz
06-01-2012, 07:56 PM
Isn't the ice 30 or 60 cheaper? I don't need blinding lights, my roboscans are only 1200 lux. Though it's dimmable, I don't want to pay extra for something I'll never reach it's potential.

Synaxis
06-01-2012, 09:02 PM
I want one with gobos, so the flurry wouldn't work. If I was to pick up used minspots for 125 each, is it worth that?

Don't even bother, waste of money altogether.

How about the Chauvet Intimidator Spot 150 LEDs?

I know IDJNOW had them on sale at one pint for $300 each, so they would probably match that if you ask.


Wouldn't you rather get something a little better now, and later on only have to upgrade your RoboScans, instead of everything?

DJ Higgumz
06-02-2012, 05:37 AM
What is a waste of money?

I just don't see myself using all that power. If I do get to the larger gigs that I need that, then likely 300 would be pocket change!

I am looking out for brighter roboscans, the 1220s have frost, rotation 3 and 9 prisms and even an iris! It seems people like them too much as none are for sale

Synaxis
06-02-2012, 09:56 AM
I was talking about the MinSpots.

While the 1220s are nice lights, especially with all the features, they are HUGE. Definitely not for Mobile DJ applications...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHXEdARQlEg

It's your money, so do whatever you want with it. But personally, I would prefer to buy something better, and not have to upgrade later, only wasting money in the process. I've done that before, and I won't do it again.

DJStevieRay
06-02-2012, 10:33 PM
I think the Torrent 90's started off at $1299 or so. Now I'm seeing them at an outrageous $1999. That's Elation Platinum Spot 5r money.

Gaf. The MSRP for the Torrents has always been $1999. But I have seen them anywhere from $1299-$1799 from reputable dealers.

Also compare the Torrent 90 to the Platinum Spot LED. And they match the Elation spec for spec, but the Platinums go for $2999 MAP I believe. They are very similar, even ther lux measurements are the same. The 5R bulb and ballast are much cheaper than a90W SMD LED which is part of the pricing difference.

DJ Higgumz
06-02-2012, 11:29 PM
jeez those 1220s are huge! i really like the roboscan series, they are built so tough. i may get 2 ice 60s then some roboscans that are brighter like the 518s.

GaFFLe
06-07-2012, 05:26 AM
Gaf. The MSRP for the Torrents has always been $1999. But I have seen them anywhere from $1299-$1799 from reputable dealers.

Also compare the Torrent 90 to the Platinum Spot LED. And they match the Elation spec for spec, but the Platinums go for $2999 MAP I believe. They are very similar, even ther lux measurements are the same. The 5R bulb and ballast are much cheaper than a90W SMD LED which is part of the pricing difference.
$1299 sounds more like it. I'm saving my pennies and will eventually decide. It'll probably be between the Chauvet 350 LEDs or the Torrent 90s. By the time I'm ready, Blizzard will probably have a new model out. Plus, I'm at a delemma on what to do with my Martin SCX 700s and 500s.

DJStevieRay
06-07-2012, 07:57 AM
By the time I'm ready, Blizzard will probably have a new model out.

I would be willing to bet that the very near future will be even brighter for Blizzard's moving heads, and more colorful, and probably just a bit frosty.

Synaxis
06-07-2012, 06:55 PM
I would be willing to bet that the very near future will be even brighter for Blizzard's moving heads, and more colorful, and probably just a bit frosty.

<cough> <cough> Insider Info?? <cough>

Some rumors going around DJStevieRay about new Blizzard products? Details please?!?!

SummitAudioDJ
06-07-2012, 08:38 PM
<cough> <cough> Insider Info?? <cough>

Some rumors going around DJStevieRay about new Blizzard products? Details please?!?!

Probably the fact that the chinese factories produce new product line ups every 2-3 months.

DJStevieRay
06-07-2012, 10:17 PM
Would a newer Torrent with possibly a 150W SMD LED source, possibly more colors, possibly more gobo's, possibly multiple prisms, and a possibly a frost filter be exciting?

sobi
06-07-2012, 10:19 PM
Would a newer Torrent with possibly a 150W SMD LED source, possibly more colors, possibly more gobo's, possibly multiple prisms, and a possibly a frost filter be exciting?


For the show or for my wallet?

Synaxis
06-08-2012, 10:14 AM
For the show or for my wallet?

Lol, +1 Rep!

If the price is around $700, then hell yes!

Dave Daschofsky
06-10-2012, 12:15 AM
I was talking about the MinSpots.

While the 1220s are nice lights, especially with all the features, they are HUGE. Definitely not for Mobile DJ applications...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHXEdARQlEg

It's your money, so do whatever you want with it. But personally, I would prefer to buy something better, and not have to upgrade later, only wasting money in the process. I've done that before, and I won't do it again.

I've got six scanners that size (elation) and they're a real pain to lug around, I adore my pocket scans.

Dave Daschofsky
06-10-2012, 12:18 AM
Would a newer Torrent with possibly a 150W SMD LED source, possibly more colors, possibly more gobo's, possibly multiple prisms, and a possibly a frost filter be exciting?

Got anything that's comparable to the ADJ Vizi spot for around the same price? Gotta buy the wife a car and then I'm free to keep putting more money into the business so I'll be looking at getting a couple moving heads and more uplighting in the fall

DJStevieRay
06-10-2012, 12:26 AM
Which Vizi Spot?

If you are looking at the Vizi Spot 5R. I would put the Torrent, as the closest competitor. It can be found around the same price with a little patience and research. The Torrent has more Gobo's, dual gobo wheels, and gobo morphing, but the 5R is a little bit brighter.

If you are speaking of the ViziSpot LED Pro's The G60, or the Ice 60 are brighter, with more gobo's, dual gobo wheel and gobo morphing, and is less expensive. The only place the Vizi's get the nod is the Frost Filter if you need the hybrid wash.

If you are speaking of the Original Vizi Spot LED's, then the Ice 30 get the nod. The Ice 30 is brighter, again with more gobo's, dual gobo wheel and gobo morphing, and is less expensive, and smaller and lighter. The vizi get's the nod with the 5 way prism, but none of the Vizi's prisms are rotating, which hurts the prism effect a little.