Audio system for class

[adviner]

Looking for opinions. Helping a friend who teaches aerobic classes find an audio system that will play off an iPod or cd player. Classes are typical 1 hour about 4-5 times a day. Budget is about 1k. So pondering of getting powered speakers and and amp with a cd player. Other people teach the classes and love to crank the volume and have blown speakers. I know this forum is for DJs but have had great help in the past. Thanks

[Buddy McKarthur]

There are so many kickass audio systems that run for well under $1,000...its just a matter of looking! First, you have your basics: Logitech Squeezebox Radio, Sony HT-CT150, etc. But since your friend is running a business here, it would be better to explore bigger, better options such as the Aperion Intimus 4T Hybrid SD (this product is a little over $1,000, but totally worth the investment), Energy Take classic 5.1...you're not very clear as to what exactly you are looking for, however for an aerobics class, I would suggest a multi piece set with high sound quality, remote control and make sure it loud. Theres a lot of great places on the internet you can find awesome audio systems. Good luck! If you have any further questions, feel free to message me :)

[windspeed36]

Pair of RCF312A's with a Soundcraft Notepad or similar would work for you. Otherwise a B52 Matrix system might be good, don't know the retail on one of those at the moment..

[adviner]

Thanks. The room is about 80x30. It's just used for indoors.

[adviner]

Thinking of 4 speaker system. 2 in the back and 2 in the front. Would be nice if the speakers have all the components in them. Highs, mids, lows. That way I can't put one on each corner. I doesn't have to be super bases. Does it make sence to get powered speakers? An drive of a unit that connects an iPod or cd? Or non powered speakers driven by the main unit/amp?

[adviner]

Now that I'm looking. I think for the amount my friend has. It's gonna be a pair like the rcf and the b52. Because those units itself would eat most of my friends funds

[windspeed36]

As I said, a B52 Matrix 1000 system, a Soundcraft EPM6, EFX6 or Notepad and a XLF male to 3.5mm stereo cable and you'll be set.

[adviner]

I like this idea. One question though is the mixer. Looking for one that's is easier to use. I don't want my friend to see so many knobs and feel over whelmed. I just need the mixer to be 5-6 channel. Two for the iPod. Two for the cd player and one for the mic.
Between the two b52 or rcf which would you recommend. The b52 have a separate sun so it's really going to thump. But it's not a dance floor so I'm concerned that would be an overkill. Assuming you can dial the bass down. But I've heard really good things about the rcf art quality. And although it doesn't have a deprecate sub if the quality is better than it would last longer.
Just thinking out loud. But thanks for all the advice
Thanks

[Unknown DJ]

Go with the B52 because it has a sub. Is this a fixed install or is this going to be moved around.

[adviner]

It's going to be a fixed install

[mr.doom]

Do they have one of those wireless mics like the exercise evangelists on TV?
I would factor that into the budget.

Since it is never going to be driven a War volume I think four of the low cost powered boxes like the Samson/M-audio/Thumps etc. would work fine.

[adviner]

Yes she dis have wireless headset

[jayhwk]

This is an install, a lot of portable systems are not appropriate. I also wouldn't use powered loudspeakers, since you'd need an electrician to add outlets close to the loudspeakers (you can't have extension cords used for a permanent install). It's one of the big downsides in active systems in situations like this.

You should hire a professional in your area. There's a lot of code related stuff that goes into an installation and you may not be legally able to perform the work. Also, if you've never done this before, you won't be wasting your friend's money while learning how to install a sound system. Where are you located? Maybe we could help you find a contractor you could trust.

I'd be thinking about something like the Electro-Voice EVID series a mixer/amplifier from Crown, Toa, Biamp, or the like. How high is the ceiling? If it's low, you're probably looking at a distributed solution.

If there's a microphone, you do not want to put one loudspeaker in each corner. That works sometimes for dance music (because there's no apparent source) but it will 1) be very disconcerting for the back half of the room to hear the sound coming from behind (you hear the closest loudspeaker as the source unless there's a delay) and 2) cause all sorts of nasty feedback problems.

[adviner]

There are outlets available. Also purchased a Shure headset and all distortion went away. Her previous headset had static every time she it closer to the current speakers.

[adviner]

Ceiling is very high. About 15+ feet

[jayhwk]

I'm sorry to be a debbie downer, but you need to multiply that budget by 10 or more if you're thinking about covering a room that big for loud music.

You're going to need the get the loudspeakers up high if you go with a traditional approach (that probably won't cover a room that long without a second or even third delay cluster) which only an experienced rigger or contractor can do. I'd still go for distributed with high ceiling loudspeakers but $1000 won't do that.

Sure, you can toss in some powered loudspeakers on stands. It might even so much better than what they had that they'll like it - but the room won't be properly covered.

[Unknown DJ]

I'm sorry to be a debbie downer, but you need to multiply that budget by 10 or more if you're thinking about covering a room that big for loud music.

You're going to need the get the loudspeakers up high if you go with a traditional approach (that probably won't cover a room that long without a second or even third delay cluster) which only an experienced rigger or contractor can do. I'd still go for distributed with high ceiling loudspeakers but $1000 won't do that.

Sure, you can toss in some powered loudspeakers on stands. It might even so much better than what they had that they'll like it - but the room won't be properly covered.

10 K for a system to be used by 40 or 50 people at a time? That's crazy. My gym uses a pair of Community passive speakers and a powered mixer.

[jayhwk]

10 K for a system to be used by 40 or 50 people at a time?

Absolutely. Maybe more. This may be off topic for a fourm that mostly focuses on mobile DJs, but here's the procedure that you would normally need to go about to design and install this sound system, if you were a contractor or acoustical constultant:

Step one for designing the system is to determine the client's needs:

The problem isn't that the room is used by 40 or 50 people at a time, it's that it's eighty feet long with only a fifteen foot ceiling! Furthermore, the type of system needed here goes a bit beyond what the normal DJ would use - not only does music need to sound good and be loud (others have blown up loudspeakers in the past), but speech intelligibility is a major goal of the system as well.

Taking that information, the next step is to determine a strategy for covering the room. The next question is if the instructor will always stand in one place in the room. If so, a traditional center cluster system would probably. If not, a distributed system with the option to change the source location (by resetting all the delays) via DSP would be the best option.

Next, the type and location of loudspeakers must be determined. You would draw the room by hand or in a prediction software like EASE. Then, you'd start "placing" loudspeakers based on their coverage patterns and do the math (or let the computer do it for me) to determine what the SPL at different points in the room would be. A variation of 3 or 4 dB is probably acceptable across, maybe a bit more in the corners. That exercise would tell you that you will not be able to cover a 30W' x 80D' x 15H' room with a single loudspeaker cluster (probably two 60 x 60 loudspeakers like the EV Zx3), if you're doing the central cluster approach. Two might do it, three would probably be best. If you lay out a distributed system, you'll need somewhere around twenty quality ceiling loudspeakers (like the Electro-Voice EV EVID 8.2HC).

Then, you can start designing the electronics. You'll need a DSP like the Biamp Audia, Peavey MediaMatrix, or Ashly 24.24 to run all the delay zones. You'll need enough amplifiers to cover each zone. You'll need an automatic mixer with controls that are easy to understand. Then, if you add up all that cost, you'll probably double it buying cable, racks, input plates (you'll need microphone and line inputs spread around the room), conduit, microphone stands, connectors, rigging cables, and more. Add labor on top of that - you'll need to use people licensed or certified to perform the work (plus a fee to do all the hard design work you just did)

Portable systems often have to break the rules of good sound system design because there's not enough time or it's too difficult get to the places that loudspeakers need to go. If you brought a portable system into this room, or you designed the system like a normal portable system, you would be able to make a decent amount of noise up front but you wouldn't be able to get anywhere near a 3dB variation in level throughout the room. You would also probably have speech intelligibility problems in the back - music might sound OK, because it's less dependent on accurate voice reproduction, but it wouldn't be ideal.

[wave180]

Pair of RCF312A's with a Soundcraft Notepad or similar would work for you. .

+1, especially if she's just starting with a limited budget.

[adviner]

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, the budget is what is killing any major plans to build a very high end system. We have used computer speaker to home speaker. And they have been good enough. Now she just wants better quality speakers.

[jayhwk]

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, the budget is what is killing any major plans to build a very high end system. We have used computer speaker to home speaker. And they have been good enough. Now she just wants better quality speakers.

I think that your friend will probably be very happy with a pair of RCF312s thrown up on poles if they're used to computer speakers.

Hold on a minute, though - I'd like to get my installed sound system rant on! This isn't necessarily directed at you, but I am often very frustrated by the quality of installed sound systems I see all over the place.

I would also debate that the solution I've described is "very high end" or even "high end" - it's the way to get professional results. In the long term, it can be quite cost effective. The install world is a lot different that he portable sound system world . There are sound systems here in town that are 20 or 30 years old and still sound good because they did it right the first time. They're well maintained and while components have been repaired and replaced over the years, the cost of regularly maintaining a real, professional grade system is much less than buying a new one every five years. One of my venues has a pile of low end gear purchased in 2006 and almost every component has failed or is close to failing. The cost of repair exceeds the cost of replacement, because the equipment isn't designed with repair in mind. They spent about $5k on that system, which replaced an earlier $3k system that failed even sooner. Now they're going to spend $10k on a new one - not high end gear, but proven, tested, workhorse kind of stuff. Had they spent the $10k in the first place, I think they would have had to put at most a thousand dollars (probably much less if the gear was treated better than it is) into the system over the last six years. That's a waste of $7000-8000 because of poor long term planning.

There's a great article about this topic by Jim Brown: Why Churches Buy Three Sound Systems, and How You Can Buy Only One:
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/3Times.pdf