What happened to hip-hop DJing?

[Sigma]

I've been into DJing for 20+ years. If someone said to me "I'm a DJ", if I asked "what sort of music do you play?" and they replied "hip-hop" my interest was piqued because I knew they'd be doing - or at least trying to do - something cool, rather than just basic blending from track to track.

Now, I know that there are still hip-hop DJs that are representing when it comes to skills - and there are folks on here that fit into that category - but overall, what the fuck has happened to hip-hop DJing? lol.

A hip-hop DJ, to me, is someone that mixes, can do some scratching, and can do some trick mixing and maybe a little bit of basic juggling. I'm not expecting people to cut like Qbert or juggle like Kentaro, but I would expect them to have some skills under their belt that separate them from the average "blend from track to track" Joe, or at least, that is their goal. It doesn't seem like that's the aim of new up and coming hip-hop DJs these days - in general I mean.

Does anyone here relate to what I'm saying? Or am I wrong and maybe I'm just not listening to the right DJs?

[DJNR]

I understand what you're saying, but honestly the definition of "hip hop DJ" is subjective. Everybody is going to view it differently. For example, someone might view a hip hop DJ as someone who mixes hip hop, or share your view that they need to be a bit of a turntablist. Ultimately, I think it is just a culture shift within the genre. It has become more accessible, and people listen to it with very little concern to its origin or founding fathers. The lack of knowledge for the genre is what has brought up the bland hip hop mixing DJ.

On a side note, the average person seems to have more interest in a hip hop DJ who plays tracks they know with little interruption, rather than the DJ who does all sorts of trickery.

[DJ CirKutCision]

Also probably due to Hip Hop DJs playing new "Club Bangers" that you probably wouldn't want to hear real scratches or juggles on compared the the sound of 90s hip hop which is beautiful. Plus, because of technology like cheaper CDJs, controllers, etc, less people learn on vinyl and don't try and learn turntablist tricks. I'm sure most hip hop DJs just learn a baby scratch and a chirp to throw in the next track with an airhorn and leave it at that.

[DJNR]

I don't think the availability of cheaper gear really has anything to do with turntablism. I know plenty of people who try to scratch on what they have because they couldn't afford anything better. I do agree with the "club bangers" statement though.

[c-hawk]

[sic]...because of technology like [sic] CDJs, controllers, etc, less people learn on vinyl and don't try and learn turntablist tricks.

+1 on this;

Most DJs getting in the game today (or recently) don't learn on turntables. If they're only going to be "Digitial DJs"(that is CDs or Controllers only) then most don't see a point in trying to do it any other way. I've gone from turntables to digital & turntables(old school only) and don't scratch or juggle as I did in the past (though I wasn't great at it to begin with) but it was fun trying to emulate the big boys and the basics were learned. Back then, it seemed more like a competition among DJs (when DMC was really big and rap battles were common) but now, it's just play the next track and keep the floor moving with as little interruption as possible. I have to admit, I've been drawn into the basic blending at parties with very little scratching or juggling except for intros or hot track drops. It has become an issue of time for an older dude like me and I don't practice or work on that stuff like I did back when I was younger.

With that said, I'm sure there are guys out there still doing it but they probably aren't playing out.

[Sean]

I think it's more what's been mentioned above about "club bangers". Hip Hop is dead, and with it is the art of playing it in creative manners. Right now people are just thinking about playing the biggest hits and mixing it in, and it doesn't help that the crowd on the other side of the dj booth (ie the dancefloor) couldn't care less how they're hearing their "favourite" song as long as they hear it.

[DjDisArm]

I think it's more what's been mentioned above about "club bangers". Hip Hop is dead, and with it is the art of playing it in creative manners. Right now people are just thinking about playing the biggest hits and mixing it in, and it doesn't help that the crowd on the other side of the dj booth (ie the dancefloor) couldn't care less how they're hearing their "favourite" song as long as they hear it.

false, you're just not looking hard enough

[DJNR]

false, you're just not looking hard enough

It's dead in comparison to other more prominent genres. It's not off the face of the earth, but it's pretty difficult to find.

[Sean]

false, you're just not looking hard enough

I don't mean dead as in non-existent. I just mean from the popular scene, and well when popularity of something goes down so do the number of people who do anything related to them, ie hip hop DJing. Which is why you don't see that many hiphop DJs anymore.

[DjDisArm]

http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?1182-**Underground-Hip-Hop-thread

i think people under the stairs, oddisee, apollo brown, one be lo (binary star) and a bunch of other great artists are holding it down..some of the music is not 'club banger' material so its not a comparison of that... its just the 90's rap set the bar pretty high...and the radio and mainstream has its own genre even though they play hip hop...or should i say more like hip pop....i mean it's catchy and makes them $$$$ but you'll never catch a lil wayne or drake track on my HD

[DjDisArm]

I don't mean dead as in non-existent. I just mean from the popular scene, and well when popularity of something goes down so do the number of people who do anything related to them, ie hip hop DJing. Which is why you don't see that many hiphop DJs anymore.

define 'popular scene?' cause there are plenty of hip hop shows still happing..especially here in cali....its just not the type of music people enjoy dancing to i think... but that all goes with moving the crowd..im a bedroom dj... what do i know about that. but yeah you're basically a juke box that plays songs that people relate too... which is radio tracks because everyone listens to different stuff..

[DJNR]

I changed what I said to popular genre because I meant something other than popular scene.

On a side note, just because you're a bedroom DJ doesn't mean you aren't qualified to speak on a subject that involves your genre.

[DjDisArm]

i meant i dont know much about moving the crowd ;)

[DJNR]

i meant i dont know much about moving the crowd ;)

Oh, haha my bad

[rchecka]

There's nothing wrong with playing popular rap music at a club, that's in the job description. Even if it's only mezo-pop rap with a cheesy vocal hook, you gotta please the ladies, and unfortunately a lot of the ladies that like to shake booty respond to familiar songs.

Re: 'What happened to the Hip Hop DJ?', I'd say there is a definite lack of new recruits. The trueschool DJs are all still holding it down, but where is the next well rounded Hip hop DJ? Seems like a lot of new HH DJs specialize in one skill vs the whole gamut. Maybe I'm sleeping on the next shit but it's not obvious.

[DjDisArm]

and me for one pay homage to greater dj's producers that paved the way and came before me....now a days dudes play dubstep with no headphones..fist pumping on their controllers on virtual dj

[Windows 95]

I think maybe it might be a race thing. Back in the 70s & 80s most of the Disco DJs & Dance Club DJs were white & most were mainly just beat matching songs. And most of the Hip-Hop DJs & Rap DJs in the 70s & 80s were black.

In the 90s Rap & Hip-Hop became a lot more popular with white people. Now there's more white Hip-Hop DJs than black Hip-Hop DJs.

Or it might be that a lot of early Hip-Hop DJs saw DJing as a ticket to getting hired by some Rapper and becoming rich & famous. And now there are so many Hip-Hop DJs that the odds of that happing are so slim to none, that people aren't willing to put in the endless hours of training to learn turntablism.

[rchecka]

I think maybe it might be a race thing.
It's got nothing to do with race and you know this. Way to look like your avatar with that answer.


that people aren't willing to put in the endless hours of training to learn turntablism.
This part of your answer is only a smidgen less stupid than your race response. Gee, if only we had kids that could master their flares properly that would solve all the problems. Its the opposite of this. If anything, we got too many wannabes that practice only on turntableism and don't know jack about the music itself or how to mix it.

[Sigma]

I would also disagree with you, Windows 95. I don't see why race would have any relevance.

I'm sure the way hip-hop has changed is part of it, cos you can listen to entire hip-hop albums now without ever hearing a DJ cutting but if you go back a few years, MCs and groups usually always had their own DJ and so people that liked hip-hop got to hear scratching regularly and that would have enticed some of them to learn how to do it and they'd have used that in their mixes. The separation of the hip-hop DJ from the music has also led to DJs becoming really specialised, so you have guys that only use one deck and a mixer and just scratch really well, but don't do anything else, like rchecka implied.

It's just a shame to see the bar dropping really. Hopefully nobody took what I'm saying as a personal diss, cos like I said, there are still DJs that are putting in work and have skills - there just seems to be a greater proportion that are not doing that compared to how things used to be.

[The Blackest]

I've been into DJing for 20+ years. If someone said to me "I'm a DJ", if I asked "what sort of music do you play?" and they replied "hip-hop" my interest was piqued because I knew they'd be doing - or at least trying to do - something cool, rather than just basic blending from track to track.

Now, I know that there are still hip-hop DJs that are representing when it comes to skills - and there are folks on here that fit into that category - but overall, what the fuck has happened to hip-hop DJing? lol.

A hip-hop DJ, to me, is someone that mixes, can do some scratching, and can do some trick mixing and maybe a little bit of basic juggling. I'm not expecting people to cut like Qbert or juggle like Kentaro, but I would expect them to have some skills under their belt that separate them from the average "blend from track to track" Joe, or at least, that is their goal. It doesn't seem like that's the aim of new up and coming hip-hop DJs these days - in general I mean.

Does anyone here relate to what I'm saying? Or am I wrong and maybe I'm just not listening to the right DJs?

The hiphop dj you and I loved is gone. I mean there are a few old school djs that play the way that you described, but its rare that they are out n about.


*Sigh*

[Sigma]

I guess I don't understand why people wouldn't want to do this kind of thing: -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzz-3vUor8k

I picked this specifically cos it's top 40/pop music, but in terms of skills it's on point. Just cos you're not playing 80s/90s staple hip-hop classics, it doesn't mean your mixing style has to be boring and basic, as this video demonstrates well.

Perhaps people feel like nobody cares. You do see a lot of comments on here to that effect, but still, when I learned some of this stuff, I wanted to learn it cos I thought it sounded cool and I wanted to be able to do it. What other people thought about it was irrelevant.

[Mrspyaman]

I always thought they just turned into producers as live tracking went from the turntables juggling a loop with some break beats and cuts. Then the drum machine introduced a new aspect but turntable skill were still required, Then sampler and live sequencers just practically eliminated the need for turntable skills. Since you don't see Eric B or Jamaster Jay on the video or up front during the sets what do younger artist have to inspire them, I remember when I used to look forward to the "Chinese Arithmetic" or "Jazzy's In The House" cuts that just featured the DJ.
That being said sometimes I drop an old (and short) routine from the late 80's and turn it into a small set if the response is good.
So I guess to me the samplers did to the hip hop Dj what controllers and sync buttons are doing to Mixing in general, sounds good but kills the art.

[DJNR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzz-3vUor8k



I hate this kind of music.

[Andrew B]

WTF Mayhem is white?










/old DJF joke

[PONTUS.2]

FUFUUFKK WTF!!! i had such a long fucking response and the site fucked me by just loading a blank white page when i hit submit mesage :mad:

but ill break down what i said.

reasons why it may have faded away and from different perspectives..

-from a live perspective. Risk reward factor. I.e its less risky to use an effect then it is to try and incorporate some turntablism into your set.

-from the turntablism scene standpoint. the scene went 2 ways. 1 the OG route (those who rejected the new technlogies and stuck to turntables + mixer + vinyl, and 2 the "Expand the artform route" (i.e those who used custom vinyl, incorporating samplers, loopers, created turntablism production and were for the use of technologies designed for turntablism etc.)

1. so by that time the capabilities of using turntables + mixer + vinyl were kind of set in stone. so maybe the OGs just got bored and felt that they had done all they were interested to do with the traditional turntablism style

2. those who went on expanding the artform just didnt take off. I personally never liked turntablism production. (i.e production based off of sequencing scratch sounds etc.) im not surprised that you dont hear that style tbh.

From just a plain musical standpoint i think turntablism now kind of has oldschool connotations to it and its getting older. In other words its just not really fresh or as cool as it used to be i dont think. lets keep it 100.

turntablism was a really unique thing =D. audience is tiny as fuck me thinks.

[dlove]

There's nothing wrong with playing popular rap music at a club, that's in the job description. Even if it's only mezo-pop rap with a cheesy vocal hook, you gotta please the ladies, and unfortunately a lot of the ladies that like to shake booty respond to familiar songs.

Re: 'What happened to the Hip Hop DJ?', I'd say there is a definite lack of new recruits. The trueschool DJs are all still holding it down, but where is the next well rounded Hip hop DJ? Seems like a lot of new HH DJs specialize in one skill vs the whole gamut. Maybe I'm sleeping on the next shit but it's not obvious.

Rodney P has just teamed up with Fallacy & Zed Bias for Sleepin Giantz, no doubt will be on tour soon, to fire up the kids! :tup:

[dlove]

another point that could be relevant; since the 'discos' have all decided to be clubs, and the licensing laws tightened up for independents, there's a lack of underground venues for truly underground scenes...While universities are putting on 'clubnights' watered down & sanitized for their students while pricing out the local independents who provide the real thing.

[Detruence]

I don't mean dead as in non-existent. I just mean from the popular scene, and well when popularity of something goes down so do the number of people who do anything related to them, ie hip hop DJing. Which is why you don't see that many hiphop DJs anymore.

You think Hip-Hop is not popular?

[DJ Que Yi]

I can relate to what you're saying Sigma. It's funny because when I think of how scratching has evolved to where there are now names to the scratches- chirps, flares, crabs... Back in the day you had scratching and transforming. I learned how to scratch by emulating DJ Premier, Grandmaster Flash, Jazzy Jeff, Pete Rock, DJ Hurricane, Jam Master Jay, and many others- not by technically studying a turntablist. It was in the music! The music has changed so much where most mainstream Hip Hop music contains very little scratching. So a lot of newer DJ's haven't been exposed to truly phrasing their mixes musically- they are limited to blends and technically sophisticated scratching of beat/scratch records.
However I have seen a number of newer DJ's who can hold their own and put it down well. To me they stand out amongst many of their peers. They're many factors that have influenced and changed the ways of the Hip Hop DJ. This thread can go on forever.

[Ocie]

Some people I've met have the "Get the music, get the equipment, get the gig, get the fame ASAP" attitude. They aren't interested in putting in time to learn anything that many DJs who've been around awhile consider necessary skills to have. This pertains mainly to the kids who are interested in spinning dubstep in the Twin Cities and surrounding area. Besides, many are using controllers and scratching probably hasn't crossed their mind in who knows how long. Also, the audience they're playing for probably doesn't really give a damn anyway....

Honestly, I don't know any "new" hip hop DJs. The one I know who can scratch pretty well has been DJing much longer than me. Maybe I'm not one who can give good insight or point of view.

@Sigma, maybe you just need to start looking for new DJs who are keeping it going? I mean you know that already, but youth of today are putting much less emphasis on the DJ in hip hop and rap groups (what I've noticed from hip hop acts at school) and that hurts the overall hip hop DJ scene. You mentioned the albums of today compared to like 7 or 8 years ago and I agree, the amount of actual DJ influence is drastically less and that certainly doesn't help either. maybe i need to start really looking for artists who haven't been doing this...

I'm (slowly) learning to scratch and what not. I've noticed a few things DJing on my normal nights at school:

early in the night the crowd is more interested in hearing opening music (older hip hop "bangers" are what I prefer to play) and they like to hear some cuts and scratches. They can and do associate that skill with being a talented DJ, more so than really good blends a non-scratching DJ would stick to. As the night goes on and the booze flows, I start to blend more. But for the first hour and a half of my set, making good cuts and scratches is an awesome skill set to have that will keep the crowd engaged from the start. It's a big motivation factor for me to learn.

On a sort of related note, Get Cryphy was awarded the "best dance night" in Minneapolis, and all the DJs associated with the night are hip hop DJs who are very skilled. Get Cryphy is mostly hip hop, rap, moombahton and baltimore club. Get Cryphy has gotten huge over the last four years.

I play this mix at least once a week since they put it out 4 months ago.

http://soundcloud.com/getcryphy/get-cryphy-2-rambo-4-drago

I guess what i'm trying to say is the newcomers don't necessarily care too much, and the guys who've been at it are still going strong (they get a lot of attention any way).

[Sigma]

@Sigma, maybe you just need to start looking for new DJs who are keeping it going?
Yeah, maybe man. I try and encourage every hip-hop DJ though really. If I feel that something is missing from a mix, I'll say so when I give feedback, cos I want to push people in what I consider to be the right direction.

I find it a bit depressing though to be honest. There are times when people can use "you're stuck in the past!" as a valid argument, but I don't see this as one of them. Hip-hop has changed and I don't like most modern popular hip-hop, but that's fine. It's not about the hip-hop that people are playing. DJ equipment has changed, but DJs are still using gear (or they can choose to buy the gear) that allows them to trick mix, do a bit of scratching or whatever, so it's certainly not me saying "you must all buy turntables!" or anything like that. It's about attitude and many DJ's attitudes are exactly what you said in the first sentence of your post. That's the depressing part, lol.

The music may well be 90% of it and the technical just 10% - or however you break it down, the music is always the most important part by far to the listener - but that few percent on the technical side carries a lot of weight, because it separates the mediocre from those that are a cut above. You can't be a complete hip-hop DJ if you never move beyond that 90%, even though that 90% will get you by.

[Ocie]

you're doing what you can to keep what you love alive and that's very respectable dude. all you can hope is that it doesn't fall on deaf ears....


The music may well be 90% of it and the technical just 10% - or however you break it down, the music is always the most important part by far to the listener - but that few percent on the technical side carries a lot of weight, because it separates the mediocre from those that are a cut above. You can't be a complete hip-hop DJ if you never move beyond that 90%, even though that 90% will get you by.

couldn't agree more, good point :tup:

[robmixx]

Good question. Take a look at the DMC's from the late 80's to now. That can give somewhat of an indication. They went from using hip hop songs to using custom pressed battle records to the electro/techo type music that nobody has ever heard. Skillwise, it's hard to tell what's going on because you are not familiar with the music as opposed to in the past when you knew the deejay had skills because you were familiar with the record and you could tell that he/she was doing something to it. I think it also has to do with the structure of rap/hip hop music. Alot of music was produced by deejays so there were breaks, intros, and outros in the song. Now the music is consumer based. There used to be special 12"extended version for deejays. Turntablism played a big part in it as well. Younger deejays were only interested in scratching and juggling and only played battle records. When those records wore out, they bought the same ones again. They didn't develop their music collection and the most basic hip hop deejay skills, party rocking, mixing, blending, cutting, and scratching. Just my thoughts. Btw, I've been a Hip Hop deejay for 27 years.Peace be with you..............Rob Mixx

[Nick Bike]

a few Canadians if u need listening material...

Pump, Hedspin, Flipout, The Gaff, Skratch Bastid, Marvel, Seko, Rico Uno, Kutcorners, Wristpect, IV, Plaeboi, Grandtheft, DR One, Jr Flo, Mat The Alien, Drastik, Illo, Kid SL...

i dunno, i'm all for cuts and mixing it up a bit. it's tough as shit to get decent at but i like it.

[durtyjerzy609]

true hiphop will never die, and believe me i think i have it pretty hard being a 35 yr old from South Jersey that now lives in the Uk, where most people never heard GangStar, D.I.T.C, or bomb ass 90's bay area hiphip like Del or The Souls of Mischief. So I always try to stay ture to what I know and love, but it doesnt mean I cant experiment. But if folks out there think true hiphop dj'n is dead just watch MixMaster Mike kill it in the Beastie Boys movie .... Hey I Shot That. In my sincere opinion, you can never move forward without knowing the past, and you cant truly understand the past with out puttin yourself in their shoes for a moment. Hip hop never started out as a genre, it started out as a means to express oneself given what you had. Busy Bee could get a DAW and make a beat to rap to, so Grand Wizard Theodore had to coast to coast disco breaks. Nuff said I think.

[215 trees]

djs are lazy now - they just want to learn as little as possible to get as big as possible

djs now practice getting photoshoots instead of juggles

hip hop djs died when the battles stopped years ago - now dj "battles" consist on which dj gets more friends to scream the loudest and are judged by people like Amber Rose

im trying to keep it alive - check the beastie boys mix i posted if you get a chance sigma

- "ready reed"

[ser182]

This really depends on where you are at. I just started in January and it is a natural progression from b boy'in. I know what I like to hear and I Play that. In Houston I can name over 10 DJ that keep it just keep it straight HH. No PoP bs. But HH is going through a transition right now. We are at the bottom of the barrel as for pop rap. There are a lot of young HH groups Gettin at it and keeping it fresh. You have to dig. The DJ is still there but dePend on this to live. I don't, so I play what I want. But I understand your frustration. The house DJ is going through this too right now where it is all abou the dollar and some( I won't say no names) are not even spinning. They are using recorded sets. So it is what is till we change it. I am trying that now.

[Rek_Aviles]

Plus, because of technology like cheaper CDJs, controllers, etc, less people learn on vinyl and don't try and learn turntablist tricks.


+1 on this;

Most DJs getting in the game today (or recently) don't learn on turntables. If they're only going to be "Digitial DJs"(that is CDs or Controllers only) then most don't see a point in trying to do it any other way.


These are your reasons right here.

You can't help but start scratching on a record, when you have the traditional 2 TT setup. After that comes the interest in wanting to learn more and sound better, but if you jump straight to controllers or CDJ, it doesn't have the same appeal. Even though you can scratch on them almost the same, ppl stay busy learning the software and playing with loop or other features.

[Rek_Aviles]

The music may well be 90% of it and the technical just 10% - or however you break it down, the music is always the most important part by far to the listener - but that few percent on the technical side carries a lot of weight, because it separates the mediocre from those that are a cut above. You can't be a complete hip-hop DJ if you never move beyond that 90%, even though that 90% will get you by.

Regardless of the genre, skills no longer matters, so new djs won't even bother.

I use to feel the same and always got gigs because I could mix house and scratch to hiphop. All that is over-looked to a certain extent, as it's now about top40 hits and the crowd you can bring in. I've seen/heard some pretty lousy DJs play some pretty decent spots, but the place was packed and the crowd could care less.

[AddictiveSolutionz]

http://soundcloud.com/weed-fm
how does this rate letmeknow

[SeiM]

This thread is a great discussion.. Reminds me why i dont mix at bars anymore.. haha


I'll just leave this here.. crate diggin for samples for custom serato tracks ;)
(no audio til :30 ish)
PLCUwJMWsb8

[nevin]

I think people who want to do more than just blend songs are moving into controllerism. I think this is where the new hot talent will be found. Turntablism may be slowing down, but looping and fx related skills are increasing (hopefully)

[migvelaz]

Does anyone here relate to what I'm saying? Or am I wrong and maybe I'm just not listening to the right DJs?

As a newish DJ I sort of agree, you have the majority of hip hop DJs sort of just blending and not doing anything really exciting. Ignore those people because you can still find great DJs out there who funk it up with trick mixing, scratching, juggling etc, maybe even catch them using vinyl records still! Let the boring DJs do their thing, but keep showing people how the right DJs sound.

As it stands now I just take this as an opportunity to buy vinyl records on the cheap while everyone runs to the store to buy their :lol:.