31 band EQ

[Ntertainment]

Ok i've been contracted to provide sound and lighting for a entertainer coming to out town. He is a public speaker who does shows all over the US. He is asking for 2, 31 band eq units, one for FOH and the other for his monitor. I'm unfamiliar with these units, I've gotten by very well without them for 10 years now, but would be fine owning a few units. I have mulitple rigs so owning 2 of them would be just fine.

Which units should i get? Money is a large concern. I don't want absolute junk unless i can't afford anything else, can i get anything good for around $150/unit?

[LiteTrix]

DBX 131S comes to mind. Got a few on Ebay for well under $150. DBX makes really good products when it comes to processing.


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=DBX+131S

[STLRiverCity]

My guess is he is spec'ing this for feedback suppression. I have a DBX iEQ31 and it has built-in feedback suppression. Basically the unit is a digital EQ with an analog interface. I really like it. I use one channel for FOH and the other for monitors. I use it for exactly what your use will be, a single mic and a crowd.

The iEQ31 is out of your price range, but the 1231 is just over $300. Any of the DBX units would work well.

http://www.dbxpro.com/EQ_Family.php

[sse]

not exactly sure wy he needs a 31 band eq since the human voice is from 60 to 7000 Hz. Is he some kind of diva?


here is one i use to eq out frequencies when i do karaoke shows...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ultragraph-pro-fbq3102-eq

it is a stereo eq, you could us one side for the monitor and other side for FOH

[windspeed36]

If you're providing live sound, 31 band EQ's are a must. You can either get a DSP such as the DBX PA+ however the inbuilt 31 band eq's in those are annoying for live use because they are so small and fiddly. I use the DBX 2231's and a my boss uses DBX 1231's. You can get the smaller ones that are 2ru with +-6dB sliders and a boost to +-12dB however the sliders are smaller so it's harder to tell the difference between a 1dB cut and a 4dB cut.

Look around your local PA companies and hire 2 of the DBX 1231's. You mentioned you haven't used graphics EQ's much, are you going to be running/adjusting them or do you know who will be? If it's you don't try and raise all the other frequencies around the issue frequency, just lower the problem.

Have a look into this video, it should help you a fair bit. http://youtube.com/watch?v=cU9BmupC62c
He knows what he's talking about as he owns a touring company responsible for touring artists such as Blink 182, Linkin Park and the Red Hot Chilli Peppers.

[andythemusician]

not exactly sure wy he needs a 31 band eq since the human voice is from 60 to 7000 Hz. Is he some kind of diva?


here is one i use to eq out frequencies when i do karaoke shows...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ultragraph-pro-fbq3102-eq

it is a stereo eq, you could us one side for the monitor and other side for FOH

It's not so much about having access to the 20Hz / 20kHz areas, but the amount of control you have - you could use a 10 band EQ (1 octave band), which would give you around 7 faders in the frequency area you mentioned. If you went with a 31 band (one-third octave bands) you have three times the amount of faders in the frequency area you mentioned. This means if a frequency pings, you can remove it without altering neighbouring frequencies too much.

[wilson]

I have a Phonic MQ3600. Had it for a long time. I've always liked it myself. There's one on eBay right now for 149 OBO. It's NOT mine, but identical to it.

[Ntertainment]

I'd be running it, i've read a fair amount about EQs, I've played in the room with the speakers i'll be using many many times, and everything sounds good. I use decent equipment so i'm not too concerned about it.

I am a visual guy, can you also recommend a spl meter, that might graph a frequency responce for me?

[ampnation]

I am a visual guy, can you also recommend a spl meter, that might graph a frequency responce for me?

What you're looking for is an RTA and you'll need a reference mic to go with it like THIS (http://www.guitarcenter.com/dbx-RTA-M-Reference-Microphone-for-DriveRack-PA-101863165-i1127344.gc?&source=4WWRWXGB&cagpspn=pla&=).

Oh, and +1 on Dave Rat. check out his other videos too.

[sse]

It's not so much about having access to the 20Hz / 20kHz areas, but the amount of control you have - you could use a 10 band EQ (1 octave band), which would give you around 7 faders in the frequency area you mentioned. If you went with a 31 band (one-third octave bands) you have three times the amount of faders in the frequency area you mentioned. This means if a frequency pings, you can remove it without altering neighbouring frequencies too much.

Absolutely agree that a 31 band gives you much more precise control.

But for public speaking, as the OP is asking about, I don't see a need for secondary eq at all, unless you have really strange room acoustics. IMHO you can fix most problems with proper speaker placement, gain structure, and channel eq-ing.

[windspeed36]

Absolutely agree that a 31 band gives you much more precise control.

But for public speaking, as the OP is asking about, I don't see a need for secondary eq at all, unless you have really strange room acoustics. IMHO you can fix most problems with proper speaker placement, gain structure, and channel eq-ing.

You should always also use some form of EQ on your monitor mixes due partially to the same reason you do for your FOH. If you've setup your monitors in the ideal position yet they are still feeding back or are having troubles with a certain frequency area, the EQ will alow you to fix that without adjusting the inputs EQ on the desk and therefore altering the main FOH mix.

[Ntertainment]

Thanks for a mic recomendation, can you give me a recomendation on an RTA.

[DJ Riddims]

You can get a pair of DBX 231s but in my opinion graphic eqs are a waste of money when you can buy a paramtric eq and have much better control over your equalizer.

[windspeed36]

You can get a pair of DBX 231s but in my opinion graphic eqs are a waste of money when you can buy a paramtric eq and have much better control over your equalizer.

Using parametric EQ's are okay for full scale touring rigs and festivals, however at smaller venues with bands playing up to 600 people, Graphics EQ's are a lot simpler and quicker to setup and use.

[STLRiverCity]

I'd be running it, i've read a fair amount about EQs, I've played in the room with the speakers i'll be using many many times, and everything sounds good. I use decent equipment so i'm not too concerned about it.

I am a visual guy, can you also recommend a spl meter, that might graph a frequency responce for me?

Do you have an iPhone or iPad? If so, there are apps that are much cheaper than an RTA and calibrated mic. They obviously won't be as good as dedicated equipment, but for your purposes they should work just fine.

[ampnation]

Do you have an iPhone or iPad? If so, there are apps that are much cheaper than an RTA and calibrated mic. They obviously won't be as good as dedicated equipment, but for your purposes they should work just fine.

I don't know. I wouldn't trust the mic on an iPhone that much unless they are for some reason superior to the mic in an Android. I have a sound meter on my phone and was reading somewhere around 85db at a fairly loud concert.

[Unknown DJ]

This RTA seems popular in the DIY HT crowd.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-792

You could also pick up a Behringer measurement mic and buy some software If you have an audio interface already.

[STLRiverCity]

The difference between an iPhone and android is the developer knows what the mic specs are and can compensate for it. There are way too many android devices out there for a developer to do that. I wouldn't recommend an app with an android device.

[Unknown DJ]

The difference between an iPhone and android is the developer knows what the mic specs are and can compensate for it. There are way too many android devices out there for a developer to do that. I wouldn't recommend an app with an android device.

Buy every Iphone Mic will not be the same. The manufacturing tolerances for the Iphone are not going to be the same as something designed for measurement. I have a DB app on my Nokia Windows will not break 95DB's with me screaming but with my old ratshack meter I could get around 108DB's if I remember right.

[andythemusician]

I don't see a need for secondary eq at all, unless you have really strange room acoustics.

Exactly - thats what the graphic is really for, to counter the resonances in the room (as well as the nuances of different speaker systems). It's a useful tool to have in your arsenal when playing recorded music and basic speech as a DJ (as a live sound tech I always make sure I have one on hand as I have just gotten used to mixing with it). As you said, you can usually fix issues using the channel EQ - but if you (you as in whoever is reading this) find you are constantly fighting feedback problems, cannot fix your speaker placement, and are needing to push as volume as possible, I recommend you look into including a GEQ in your rack.

[Ntertainment]

Just bought the audio tools by studio six digital. I'm excited about having something like this with me at all times. I'm not sure how well the pink noise gen works but i'm gonna play with it over the next few days. I'm sure this app is at least as good as some of the pro stuff made just 10 years ago... funny how technology goes.

[Ntertainment]

So hypothetically I would plug a 3.5 into my headphone jack on the iphone with the pink noise gen and then use the RTA to see the visual? Is there a free computer pink noise generator?

[ampnation]

So hypothetically I would plug a 3.5 into my headphone jack on the iphone with the pink noise gen and then use the RTA to see the visual? Is there a free computer pink noise generator?

http://www.jetcityorange.com/pink-noise/

[Ampedproductions]

Honestly if you don't know how to use the 31 band eq then it's probably pointless to have. It takes some learning as to what frequencies to cut. I would be inclined to go peavey maybe? I have a couple behringer 2x31 and they work fine for the amount I use them.

[windspeed36]

Honestly if you don't know how to use the 31 band eq then it's probably pointless to have. It takes some learning as to what frequencies to cut. I would be inclined to go peavey maybe? I have a couple behringer 2x31 and they work fine for the amount I use them.

Problem with those cheaper Behringer units, you get a hell of a lot of noise comming off them

[Ntertainment]

Amp

How would i learn to use them if i don't have one? I'm contracted to provide sound for this guy and that's what he wants, so I have to provide it. I'd be fine with just leaving them all flat, but i won't want to be in lieu of contract.

[Ampedproductions]

Practice... Yeah I feel your pain, what I am saying is maybe look for a couple cheap used ones for now? There is a Behringer 3102 selling here for $80. Not the greatest at all but if you dont use them all that often there is no point in dropping 300 then having it sit for the rest of its life...

I havent noticed mine being noisy at all... But I use them on the monitors for rock bands, so there is alot of noise already there. :lol:

What I do is set up the mics then wring out the monitors till I have a decent enough amount of volume... once they are set they pretty much stay that way. I am still not good enough to try and pinpoint what frequency is feeding back on the fly.

[Ntertainment]

Amp

Great words of advice, a lot of people will blow money on stuff and then let it sit around. I ended up buying one of the DBX 1231 models. I'll use it for this guy and then i'll try to make sure i use it in the future to make sure i get my money out of it. I'd like to do more live sound anyways so this will be great to have one and one to get me started. Thanks for the help everyone!

[Dave Daschofsky]

not exactly sure wy he needs a 31 band eq since the human voice is from 60 to 7000 Hz. Is he some kind of diva?


here is one i use to eq out frequencies when i do karaoke shows...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ultragraph-pro-fbq3102-eq

it is a stereo eq, you could us one side for the monitor and other side for FOH

That's the one I've got too, I bought it about four years ago and it's been great.

[Ntertainment]

so here is what i have in my case,

Two wireless mics
A 2 channel effects unit
A 2 channel compressor
a 2 channel 31 band eq
and the mixer

What is the best way to wire this, Mic, -> effects -> compressor -> 31 band?

[Ampedproductions]

What mixer? Does he need effects? Are you running the monitor off an aux out?

[windspeed36]

Both the effects and compressor should be inserted on channels. They can be used over the entire mix however that means that that effect is applied to everything as is the level of compression.

YouTube how to insert a compressor and effects unit but the basic jist of it is you take the aux output send it to the unit then take the output from the unit into the aux return.

If you want to just put it all in series. Mixer > effects > compressor > FOH and Mixer AUX > EQ > monitor

[Ntertainment]

Amp

I'm asking just in general too, he doesn't need effects and i prob won't need the compressor for him either, but i have it in the rack i would like to have all of this hooked up in the future.

For the monitor out and the master out do i pan the master to one side and then daisy chain the output with this one dbx 1231 eq?

[windspeed36]

To get a full stereo FOH plus GEQ on the monitors, you need atleast 2 DBX 1231's. One running FOH and the other running the monitors. Having said that, you can pan all your channels to one side and run that send (wether it be L or R master) into one channel of the GEQ and the monitor output into channel 2 of the GEQ.