First time studio monitor buyer

[JDH]

Hey guys

Basically bit of background information, I've been wanting to get into mixing for a long time now and I've finally managed to get myself organised and take it step by step. Since my ancient speaker set up died on me the other week I think upgrading my soundsystem would be a good first step and then while I'm saving up again I can decide what path I want to go down (laptop DJ, CDJ, etc).

I've currently been looking at the Yamaha HS50M's as I've heard a few good words about them. Although they are £270 for a pair, they're pretty pricey. I've seen the Behringer B2031A pair go for about £240, while I know £30 is not that much of a difference - the Behringer's have an 8" woofer compared to the Yamaha's 5". While I understand that its not always the size of the woofer that matters, its more or less the sound you get out of them.

Which brings me here, I was wondering what your advice would be on my decisions, or if I'm heading down the completely wrong road - any feedback will be great!

Cheers

J

[Incognito]

I use a pair of Audioengine A2 for my TV speakers but I sometimes mess around with Djay on my Ipad2 2 when I'm bored using a SendStation PDLO-MiU5 PocketDock or I use a DAC when using my laptop, this produces really good sound quality. So much so that I am thinking of going with a pair of Audioengine A5+ for use with my Pioneer CDJ decks, Pioneer DJM mixer & Pioneer DDJ-S1 for practice, Audioengine also make a matching sub but for me I think the A5+ alone will be enough for practice.

[windspeed36]

for around the same price (230-250) i think you can pick up the KRK Rockit G2 which are a really nice pair of monitors for DJing and recording

[B.Frank]

I think the Yamahas are aimed a little more at producers than at dj's. They do a great job of pointing out all the imperfections of a track or particular mix you're working on. They're built to sound flat, not to please the ears.

I don't know anything about the Behringers, but If I were you I would choose them or something else over the Yamahas unless you're using them for production too.

[mostapha]

between the OP's 2 choices, it's a no-brainer. Yamaha all the way. Behringer makes crap, and while they might improve with nem0nic helping them, I have my reservations.

The thing about the Yamahas you have to know is that they're supposed to sound like crap. They're made for mixing and are supposed to emulate the NS-10M, which is a very popular speaker for that application but is NOT supposed to sound good.


They're built to sound flat, not to please the ears.

That's actually wrong. They're supposed to have a heinous mid boost that accentuates frequencies that are typically problematic.

But, the new Yamaha designers were halfway intelligent. if you turn the low-rolloff off and set the mid EQ to its negative setting, it should sound better…closer to hifi speakers than a lot of monitors. Setting the mid EQ to boost and tuning the low rolloff to how far they are from the back wall will show you what NS-10s were supposed to sound like…or something very close to it.

AudioEngine A5+s will sound better than them if all you want to is DJ, and I like my KRK RP5s for that better than I'd like Yamahas. They're pretty cheap for bookshelf speakers that go that loud without distorting and don't specifically ruin the sound.

[B.Frank]

The thing about the Yamahas you have to know is that they're supposed to sound like crap.

I think that's what I meant to say. Gonna stop talking about things I have no idea on.

[windspeed36]

between the OP's 2 choices, it's a no-brainer. Yamaha all the way. Behringer makes crap, and while they might improve with nem0nic helping them, I have my reservations.

The thing about the Yamahas you have to know is that they're supposed to sound like crap. They're made for mixing and are supposed to emulate the NS-10M, which is a very popular speaker for that application but is NOT supposed to sound good.



That's actually wrong. They're supposed to have a heinous mid boost that accentuates frequencies that are typically problematic.

But, the new Yamaha designers were halfway intelligent. if you turn the low-rolloff off and set the mid EQ to its negative setting, it should sound better…closer to hifi speakers than a lot of monitors. Setting the mid EQ to boost and tuning the low rolloff to how far they are from the back wall will show you what NS-10s were supposed to sound like…or something very close to it.

AudioEngine A5+s will sound better than them if all you want to is DJ, and I like my KRK RP5s for that better than I'd like Yamahas. They're pretty cheap for bookshelf speakers that go that loud without distorting and don't specifically ruin the sound.
Speaking of Behringer getting help, some of Behringers new mixers have Klark Technic EQ's in them :freak:
It's like taking a smart car and putting a ferrari badge on it...

[EdMuggles]

when i was looking at monitors i was looking for a clear high end with out muddy bass, i found the Yamaha to have the best sound, while the KRKs had the best bass, the Behringer actually surprised me by having a clearer high end than the KRKs.

after many hours of listen the yamaha's where a clear winner,
Disclamer. i was not looking for a base heavy speaker but something that i could pick my mixes apart on.

[Budzak]

Just throwing it out there the: The TRUTH series is one of those rare gems from Behringer that are actually worth getting. I've had a pair for the past couple of years and they sound great.

But compared to Yammies? No, go for the Yammies if you don't have a need for much low-end.

[Hygro]

If I wanted to spend no more than $500 to get production studio monitors (not DJing)

And I want a flat, perfect, clear eq; and loud, what do I buy?

[mostapha]

I think that's what I meant to say. Gonna stop talking about things I have no idea on.

Nah. It took me a while to figure that out. You were right about certain montiors…the HSx0M series just isn't that type of monitor.

There are 2 types of monitors. The "Genelec" types are supposed to sound flat and raw. The "NS-10" type are supposed to sound like crap, and they mostly do it by having really fast response times (an amplifier issue more than speakers) and a bump in the mids, which is the opposite of what people consider pleasing and logically the opposite of what the vast majority of hifi-type speakers do. The point of them is that a mix that sounds good (read: flat) on NS-10s will sound incredible on normal people speakers.

Think about the EQ in your car. If it's not set flat, you're boosting bass…and you're probably boosting treble some too unless your tweeters are just really bright. That's about the same effect as lowering the mids, it's just that people like turning controls on stereos up instead of down and they'd never sound right if the manufacturer had included a mid control. (high end head units do that less because they assume you have some clue what you're doing even if you don't know why you're doing it)

I didn't get it until I started actually hearing NS-10ms with Bryston amps (which some people claim makes a difference) and looked up a lot of data about them and the new ones…because I kinda want a pair and while NS-10ms are affordable, the amps that you're supposed to use with them are not. And I'm not that confident in my "the amp doesn't matter that much" line because I've never ABX'd them or talked to someone I trusted who did. I've heard NS-10ms with 2 different amps in the same room, but I didn't ABX them, didn't listen blind either time, and did hear a slight difference in the transient response. But I also knew what was supposed to happen.

If you want the flat genelec-type monitors, someone I trust (can't tell you why…covered by an NDA…but he knows his shit) did say that the first generation ones were very good for the price. The G2s less so, though he didn't elaborate on exactly why. It's possible that the curvy new design actually does something detrimental if the originals were supposed to compensate for the boxiness and they didn't alter that part of the speaker/amp/crossover.


go for the Yammies if you don't have a need for much low-end.

They do sell a sub. Again, people I trust say it's killer.

I'm eventually going to have a pair of HS50Ms next to my RP5s with the matched sub to one of them, but that's like a grand that I don't need to spend until I invest at least in bass traps and a room big enough that the speakers won't be right up against a wall.

One other thing to consider is that the HS50M is back-ported, which means that it'll be even worse about coupling with a wall and overemphasizing the low end than, say, RP5s which are front ported. Not a good idea in either case, but it does less harm to the RP5s.

Still…anything like this will work for sound design and composition. If you're actually getting something ready for release, book some time in a recording studio or send it to a mixdown/mastering engineer. If they're decent, they'll have done all of this properly…and a lot of them really like talking about it. It's one of the things they geek out on.

As with everything else, once you get to the "not crap" level, each subtle improvement costs an arm and a leg. I've produced and recorded with Genelecs. Do they sound flatter and more accurate than my RP5s? Yes. Absolutely. Is it worth paying $1300 per speaker instead of $300 for the pair? As an amateur artist who hasn't even made anything worthy of my own soundcloud page yet? No. Not by a long shot. I'll look into it when I'm happy with my ability to program a synth and write a melody.

And fortunately, the KRKs double as good bookshelf/tv speakers. When my girlfriend is over, I use them more to watch Netflix than I do to play music, and they sound better than any hifi system I've heard in that price range. HS50Ms can, but you have to flip some switches on the back to do it.

[JDH]

Thanks for the great feedback guys!

I should've probably said earlier that these will also become my primary speakers for my PC as well. I intend on mixing everything under bass music along with some other electronic stuff (not at the same time though) and watch films/TV with them as well. I won't be producing anything at all - at least not for another 2-3 years at the very least.

I hadn't really thought about the Audioengine's that much - completely forgot they existed! They are pretty pricey but I'm wondering if that price corresponds to the sound quality that the monitors will chuck out. The A5+s stretch way past my budget and I've read that they have a strong bass, something that I don't want if I'm mixing..?

I also know a friend of a friend who bought a KRK setup and a NI S4 for his setup and says the KRKs are brilliant - mostapha, which KRKs do you have?

Lastly, I don't think I'll want to buy a subwoofer on top of the monitors since that'll cause a huge dent in my wallet and it'll be less I can spend on mixing equipment.

[Incognito]

Thanks for the great feedback guys!

I should've probably said earlier that these will also become my primary speakers for my PC as well. I intend on mixing everything under bass music along with some other electronic stuff (not at the same time though) and watch films/TV with them as well. I won't be producing anything at all - at least not for another 2-3 years at the very least.

I hadn't really thought about the Audioengine's that much - completely forgot they existed! They are pretty pricey but I'm wondering if that price corresponds to the sound quality that the monitors will chuck out. The A5+s stretch way past my budget and I've read that they have a strong bass, something that I don't want if I'm mixing..?

I also know a friend of a friend who bought a KRK setup and a NI S4 for his setup and says the KRKs are brilliant - mostapha, which KRKs do you have?

Lastly, I don't think I'll want to buy a subwoofer on top of the monitors since that'll cause a huge dent in my wallet and it'll be less I can spend on mixing equipment.

The bass isn't over powering on the Audioengine A5+ but it does give the impression that a sub is being used, if bass isn't your thing then the Audioengine A2 is a good contender however it doesn't go as loud or have as much bass as the A5+ but it is cheaper.

[mainstreamdjs]

I have both the behringer 3031a and the krk rockits. To be honest with you, the krk's are more enhanced then the behringers....

Regardless, all I have to say is you can have the best most flat monitors in the world, but if your room sucks, then your sound isnt that flat. Getting to know your speakers and room is more important than whether or not your speakers are perfect or not. If people had perfect speakers in perfect rooms, there would be alot more professional engineers out there.

Regardless, the behringers are really not that bad for the price. They are made with cheaper components but the 3031a's stand up to my krks (they might not last as long obviously because Behringer cut corners somewhere). With the KRKs, you will def not make a bad decision- they last and like I said, once you learn them (or any other monitor) you are good to go. They are obviously more money so you gotta decide whats more important to you!

One more recommendation- I would def go with 8 inch woofer over a smaller woofer any day of the week. I have produced with 6 inch monitors and glad I have gotten bigger monitors since. Maybe its the type of music I work with but def night and day in my opinion.