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Eskae
04-17-2012, 08:13 AM
How do you wire up a 50amp 125/250v cable into a breaker box? Cant seem to find any tutorials or visual guides. I've seen it done a buncha times but I forget exactly how it's done.

(No I don't have a buddy that can show me, and no I'm not gonna "leave it to a professional". I have to do it myself)

Thanks all

windspeed36
04-17-2012, 08:31 AM
I'm not too sure what the law in the US states, but here in Aus if you do that and you're not a licensed electrician and it's your house your insurance becomes invalid. It it's at a venue why are you doing it in the first place? And secondly it's illegal because you're not a licensed electrician. I'm guessing this is similar to the states.

Just for clarification, what exactly do you mean by a 50 amp 250v breaker box. Are you talking about adding another circuit to the buildings power by summing up the existing service(s)

jayhwk
04-17-2012, 08:49 AM
How do you wire up a 50amp 125/250v cable into a breaker box? Cant seem to find any tutorials or visual guides. I've seen it done a buncha times but I forget exactly how it's done.

(No I don't have a buddy that can show me, and no I'm not gonna "leave it to a professional". I have to do it myself)

Thanks all

You won't find many people on an internet forum that will reply to a question like this. The liability is too high.

You cannot do this yourself. Period.

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-17-2012, 09:44 AM
How do you wire up a 50amp 125/250v cable into a breaker box?lYou don't. If you could safely do so you wouldn't have to ask. And there's no such thing as a 125v/250v cable.

audiopyle
04-17-2012, 04:11 PM
Get an electrician to install one of these and an appropriate breaker. Then you can plug a 50a distro into it.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtJiqiqRJg2Y2f6dJ7Mosp1wn_ZuiIf r7z6AWQIEoJ7VuMv00EwQhttp://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/wiringdevices/products/images/c/cs8469.jpg

Incognito
04-17-2012, 04:56 PM
You're going to need to get a licensed electrician to wire up something like a Nema L14-50 twist lock set or you can go with Hubbell http://www.stayonline.com/images/products_240x240/6982.jpg in conjunction with http://www.stayonline.com/images/products_240x240/5862.jpg. I am a licensed electrician & I am going to tell you this, if you have to ask how to do it then you shouldn't do it because there are certain things that need to be looked at before doing this. I am not sure how it is in the States but where I am from no one but a licensed electrician is allowed to carry out such work.

Andrew B
04-17-2012, 05:32 PM
You call an electrician.

Otherwise, stand on a rubber mat. Only use one hand. Have a friend standing by with a baseball bat or 2x4 to hit you if you start getting electrocuted.*






*Don't actually do this.

Brom
04-17-2012, 08:48 PM
So say I'm at a wedding venue (and most of them in Chicago don't have a clue as to the difference between 30 amps and a piece of burnt toast) what can we do to get the most power for our rigs? Luckily what I'm running now is safe to run on 15 amps or less, but if I go any bigger I'll need 20 - 30 amps easy. Some venues have 20 & 30 amp plugs that they run power strips from that knock it down to 15 amps or 20 amps per side, but it's few and far between to run into a venue that knows about this stuff. I sub myself out to a DJ company so I don't deal with the venues upfront and pretty much just show up at the gigs and set up wherever I'm instructed, which is often less than desirable. Is it worth it to put together a distro unit for those few and far between gigs where we can tie in somewhere?

BillESC
04-17-2012, 09:55 PM
You're best bet is to carry a couple 100' 12/3SOOW extension cords. It will allow you to "find" a circuit. You should also have an Amprobe to see what the idle load is on the circuit.

Eskae
04-17-2012, 10:17 PM
There was a couple different sound guys I use to work with and they tapped into main power all the time.. I would even watch/help them do it.. Really didn't look that difficult.. But I forget exactly how to do it and am no longer in contact with those people so I can't ask them..

DJ Forums is my go to place to get advice on these sorts of things, don't let me down brothaz

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-17-2012, 10:23 PM
don't let me down brothazWe're not. If you don't know what you're doing you don't screw around with electricity. If you want to screw around with electricity learn how the right way. The internet isn't it.

djscrizzle
04-17-2012, 11:23 PM
Entertainment Power is a case of the Quick and the DEAD... or quick and the place in ashes. Buy a distro that is UL Listed, a properly sized 4-wire SOOW cordset with the right ends, and have a licensed electrician tie it in - That's the ONLY approach I recommend, other than spidering out cords to other circuits in the building.

DYM
04-17-2012, 11:56 PM
If the venue has NO usable power then get a generator and a nice 100' 12/3SOOW extension cord.

B3NNY
04-18-2012, 12:30 AM
It's the same as tying in a 50A 3 wire circuit (Range circuit for example*Hint Hint*) into a breaker panel. Now I gave you a clue, but if you dont know how to do or what I'm talking about dont even try it.

DJNR
04-18-2012, 02:38 AM
Don't do it. It's a trap!
http://www.ackbar.org/images/ackbar.jpg

Incognito
04-18-2012, 02:41 AM
It's the same as tying in a 50A 3 wire circuit (Range circuit for example*Hint Hint*) into a breaker panel. Now I gave you a clue, but if you dont know how to do or what I'm talking about dont even try it.

There's a whole other set of codes for our industry that must be observed, there are also case by case situations that need to be observed to keep things safe as well as code compliant. Not to mention that the code concerning range plugs just changed in recent years so your "hint hint" could be leading him in the wrong direction depending on how old the information he looks up is also he would have to see even if range plugs are acceptable by local code for his intended application (where I am from we're only allowed to use locking devices for such applications) . To do this properly one would also need to understand the difference between a service entry panel & a sub panel & how to connect to each correctly, then there's panels with high legs (where one leg has a much higher voltage then the other legs) or commercial/industrial buildings (even some high end homes) that have dedicated common power as well as dedicated lighting panels with some lighting panels having a 277/480 volt supply (tape into that & say good bye to all of your gear). There is yet another option that is even easier then what he is contemplating since it's only for temporary feeders however I would still suggest that a licensed electrician do that for him as well).

If you choose to go the multiple extension cord route even then there's codes to be observed concerning that as to what cord types are allowed to be used plus I would say make sure you invest in a couple rolls of good duct tape (black if you want to conceal it better) & tape your cords down to the corners of the walls.

Personally I go the route of a dedicated distro thus have no worries for power but then again I have the background to do this, be long term smart rather then a short term idiot when it comes to dealing with things that have the potential of changing or taking someones life. How approached this situation years back was I looked at the venues I frequent & made a deal with them, I do the install for free (remember I'm an electrician) & they pay for the material for the job, what you could do is in reverse by paying for the material & have them pay for the electrician. This would be considered an investment of their venue for the long term if they constantly have different acts that require such power frequently using their venue, another option is if they only allow all of their entertainment to set up only in one location then they could also have an electrician install a couple dedicated circuits to that location.

Eskae
04-18-2012, 03:23 AM
Isn't this pretty much how it's done?
http://www.ehow.com/how_7901578_wire-kitchen-range.html

For clarifucation I'm wiring up a cable with a 125/250 50amp plug on one end that goes into my spider box.. and the bare wire on the other end into the breaker box..

Incognito
04-18-2012, 03:31 AM
Isn't this pretty much how it's done?
http://www.ehow.com/how_7901578_wire-kitchen-range.html

For clarifucation I'm wiring up a cable with a 125/250 50amp plug on one end that goes into my spider box.. and the bare wire on the other end into the breaker box..
If you read that page, I think you missed the most important statement of all.


Installing a 240-volt receptacle for a kitchen range is not a difficult task, but is one that requires training and experience.

Brom
04-18-2012, 06:17 AM
You're best bet is to carry a couple 100' 12/3SOOW extension cords. It will allow you to "find" a circuit. You should also have an Amprobe to see what the idle load is on the circuit.

Thanks, Bill. Definitely sounds like the safest route. I have one 100' 12/3 SJTW cord my dad gave me years ago - and it's orange. The rest of my cables are black 25' 12/3 SJTOW. Guess I'll start looking around for black SOOW ones.

Incognito
04-18-2012, 07:29 AM
Thanks, Bill. Definitely sounds like the safest route. I have one 100' 12/3 SJTW cord my dad gave me years ago - and it's orange. The rest of my cables are black 25' 12/3 SJTOW. Guess I'll start looking around for black SOOW ones.

There's a code on that as well, you're not to use SJ cables or those orange hardware store specials, soow is what you should be using. When it comes to multiple cords running around you need to be sure to secure them down (with duct tape etc.) to prevent any potential trip hazards. Also get to the venue in time to test what circuits are doing what so you know you're not taping into a circuit that is shared, has something like a refrigerator or pump on the same circuit that will kick in intermittently, or shares a neutral with lights that are on an electronic dimmer, thus knowing what circuits you can & can't plug into.

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-18-2012, 08:17 AM
If you read that page, I think you missed the most important statement of all.
Actually it would be this one: Turn off the main circuit breaker
I doubt many venues would be appreciative of having their power shut down while an untrained person is fooling around inside their service entrance.

Incognito
04-18-2012, 08:20 AM
Actually it would be this one: Turn off the main circuit breaker
I doubt many venues would be appreciative of having their power shut down while an untrained person is fooling around inside their service entrance.
Yes but acknowledging to ones self that they don't have the training or experience to do the task then one shouldn't even get as far as turning off the breaker in the first place.

BillESC
04-18-2012, 05:40 PM
Code for entertainment cable is SO, SOO or SOOW

B3NNY
04-18-2012, 06:37 PM
So wait, this guy wants to tap into a 50A circuit in every place he has a gig at? I was thinking he just wanted to temp connect his equipment up in his house every time he has a party or something. If that was the case, then I didnt want to give him direct advice how to do it, but in reality he's free to do whatever he wants in his own home in the US. Thats why I was hinting at pulling the wires for the range off the breaker and temping in your equipment feed. How does he expect to find panel space in all these different places he goes to? A lot of panels are jammed w/ breakers. Not to mention you would have to carry every variation/brand of breaker to fit into the various panels you encounter. Here in the states, I would say 90% of commercial 3-phase panels are 120/208 wye. Most heavy equipment can accept the voltage variation between 2-pole 250V and single phase 208V, but can his equipment? Stuff he needs to think about.

Brom
04-18-2012, 07:39 PM
Code for entertainment cable is SO, SOO or SOOW

Anyone familiar with these? Direct Pro Audio E-Cords (http://www.directproaudio.com/shop/cables/ac.cfm)

If not, any suggestions on where to find the proper cable online? Pre-assembled is best as I'm not an electrician.

BillESC
04-18-2012, 08:30 PM
I build cables to order. Feel free to contact me.

800-582-2421
bill@entsyscorp.com

The cables you linked to have thermoplastic jackets and will not coil well, nor are they SO compliant.

Brom
04-18-2012, 08:35 PM
I build cables to order. Feel free to contact me.

800-582-2421
bill@entsyscorp.com

The cables you linked to have thermoplastic jackets and will not coil well, nor are they SO compliant.

Thanks, Bill. Good to know as they seem to have left the cable rating out of their marketing material.

djscrizzle
04-18-2012, 10:38 PM
I build cables to order. Feel free to contact me.

800-582-2421
bill@entsyscorp.com

The cables you linked to have thermoplastic jackets and will not coil well, nor are they SO compliant.

That's the how, now here's the Why...

The reason why you aren't allowed those orange and black power cords, lies in the National Electrical Code in article 520:

All portable cordage used in a Place of Public Assembly, unless supported along its entire length [as in a truss] shall be rated as Extra Hard Service. Any cable that is attached to equipment as the provided power cord, whether detachable or not, AND under 15' 4.5M) OR is supported along it's entire length [such as taped or tied to a truss/stand/support pipe] is permitted to be Junior Hard Service cable, which is properly sized to the feeding circuit's Overcurrent Protection Devices (OCPD) and to the ampacity listed in Table 310.16.

Note that:

S, SO, SOW, SOOW, SEOW, SEOOW, ST, STW, and STOW are listed as Extra Hard Service type cables.

SJ, SJO, SJOW, SJOOW, SJE, SJEOW, SJEOOW, SJT, SJTO SJTW and SJTOW are listed as Junior Hard Service type cables.
A place of public assembly is: A club, bar room, gymnasium, auditorium, play hall, stage, outdoors (See Article 525), a classroom, ballroom, event center, arena, concourse, and all other places as considered by the AHJ to be used for public assembly. AHJ is the Authority Having Jurisdiction.

Eskae
04-26-2012, 10:18 PM
The first person I ask at home depo tells me how to do it.
It was extremely simple

jayhwk
04-26-2012, 11:29 PM
The first person I ask at home depo tells me how to do it.
It was extremely simple

Congratulations, you have now quite probably committed a crime.

Does the venue owner know that a building inspector could shut down the entire venue because an unlicensed person performed electrical work?

We're not joking about taking safety seriously. This was only nine years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_nightclub_fire

windspeed36
04-26-2012, 11:41 PM
The first person I ask at home depo tells me how to do it.
It was extremely simple

Not only have you probably committed a crime, but if the venue are aware you're unlicensed you have just voided their insurance.

jayhwk
04-27-2012, 01:11 AM
As long as we're talking about safety and the Station Nightclub, I recommend that everyone involved in the production business read the NIST report on the fire:

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/ri_finalreport_june2905.cfm

To me, the most shocking part of the report was that 90 seconds after ignition, the temperature in most of the building was over 1000 degrees. Think about the venues where you work. Would you be out in 90 seconds?

Incognito
04-27-2012, 01:48 AM
Don't think warning him any further is going to stop him from still trying this himself, we warned him already yet he still went and asked around trying to find out how even though we warned him he's not qualified to do what he's wanting to do.

jayhwk, let's just hope this doesn't turn out to be another Station Nightclub incident.

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-27-2012, 09:41 AM
To me, the most shocking part of the report was that 90 seconds after ignition, the temperature in most of the building was over 1000 degrees. Hardly. The most shocking part is that not only did they install flammable foam, said foam would have done absolutely nothing to reduce noise levels outside the club, and that's the reason why it was installed in the first place. If the idiot owners of the club had hired a professional to fix their sound problems that foam never would have been there to begin with, and a few thousand lives would have been saved, those who died and those who they left behind.

I've got no problem with the OP killing himself screwing around with something he has no clue about; I just hope his idiotic behavior doesn't take more lives than just his own.