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View Full Version : Do power conditioners make a difference?



ulaent
04-12-2012, 11:26 AM
I have been debating wether or not get one for some while. I have been getting mixed reviews from people who swear by them and those who say they dont make a difference. I run a peavey sp system powered by xti4000's. I want to know if you think they make a difference in sound quality or are necessary to any sound system

Ula Ent

Al Poulin
04-12-2012, 11:45 AM
The only area where a power conditioner will make a difference is in your wallet.... ;)

Just get some decent quality power strips/bars and you will be fine. There are power conditioners that actually do something BUT these are quite expensive... :eek:


Al

Gjhowe1
04-12-2012, 12:03 PM
Ive also been curious about which conditioners actually do something. There has been a few situations where ive seen sound systems run off generators for events set up away from a hard line power source. Im wondering of a power conditioner would do anything in this situation as the generators don't provide "clean filtered" power.

I cant really see them helping if your plugged into a hard line as there are filters installed in most major transformers and modern electronic grids to generate a nice clean sine wave.

wilson
04-12-2012, 12:25 PM
I have a couple of Furman M8DXs. I like the voltmeter, pull out dimmable lights, and rack mounted power strip in my booth. Other than that, I don't think it does much. There is a venue that I go to about 4 or 5 times a year. There is ALWAYS this hum/static I get you can hear at no volume. I bought one of these to try and eliminate...nothing. So, then I decided that since I use one circuit for speakers/subs and one circuit for lights and everything else...I'd get a SECOND one so everything I had went through a power conditioner. NOPE. It only ever happens at this one venue, so I'm guessing that it doesn't remove noise or ground loops from circuits. I'm still glad I have them, they are handy to know the voltage you're getting and also the lights. But, I don't know that they are much more than that.

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-12-2012, 12:42 PM
I have been debating wether or not get one for some while. I have been getting mixed reviews from people who swear by them and those who say they dont make a difference. I run a peavey sp system powered by xti4000's. I want to know if you think they make a difference in sound quality or are necessary to any sound system

Ula Ent
Ask the manufacturer of your gear. All will respond NO! Whatever line filtering/'conditioning' that may be required is done by the power supply of the gear. Those who recommend them either make or sell them, or believe the advertising of those who do.

Gjhowe1
04-12-2012, 01:25 PM
The voltmeter is nice, a amp meter would be better though, then you could see how many amps you were pulling (or how close to tripping the dam breaker you are). Lights are nice too :P

Incognito
04-12-2012, 05:45 PM
A true power conditioner is a good investment under certain conditions however the gimmick "conditioners" being passed off as conditioners will provide no better protection then a decent surge protection power strip. If you run your system in areas that have questionable utility power (brown outs, fluctuating voltage due to bad neutral connections, none inverted generators, dirty power, etc.) then a power conditioner will be a good investment, if all you require is surge protection & EMFI filtering then a decent surge protection power strip will do the job.

unsafe8989
04-12-2012, 06:15 PM
If I play off a generator will it help to have a Power Conditioner

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-12-2012, 06:31 PM
If I play off a generator will it help to have a Power Conditioner
A good generator provides clean AC.

BTW, power conditioners did not exist for the first 75 years of audio, and we got along perfectly well without them. They only came into being when the PC arrived, and PC makers cheaped out on the power supplies to cut costs. They still may have some value with respect to protecting PCs, but none whatsoever with respect to audio.

Incognito
04-12-2012, 07:45 PM
A good generator provides clean AC.

BTW, power conditioners did not exist for the first 75 years of audio, and we got along perfectly well without them. They only came into being when the PC arrived, and PC makers cheaped out on the power supplies to cut costs. They still may have some value with respect to protecting PCs, but none whatsoever with respect to audio.

When the motor stutters or surges on a none inverted generator, this effects the out going power & the resulting out going power can be harmful to electronics on the load side of this generator.

Lots of things have changed in the world of electronics (& audio) in the last 75 years with these advancements comes a tighter tolerance of what these electronics are tolerant of outside of their spec. Considering static electricity is enough to bring certain electronics to their knees it doesn't hurt to have a bit of insurance in place but really it comes down to the level of protection one feels is sufficient (a decent surge protector with EMFI filters is enough for the average person).

audiopyle
04-12-2012, 08:01 PM
I decided to invest in a couple of high capacity SMPS surge protectors to put in the AC lines to my new TTL11A columns.

kipperj
04-12-2012, 08:48 PM
Will my cheap power conditioner work just as well as a nice surge protector? I bought it before i was educated...

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-12-2012, 09:08 PM
Considering static electricity is enough to bring certain electronics to their knees.Not the gear we use. Computers yes, which as I noted is where the power conditioning nonsense began. That doesn't mean that you should ignore the usefulness of surge protection, since it is such cheap protection. But in 47 years of doing this not only have I never lost a piece of gear to a power surge, I've never met anyone who has either.

jayhwk
04-12-2012, 11:13 PM
Will my cheap power conditioner work just as well as a nice surge protector? I bought it before i was educated...

That depends on the technology used - MOV surge protectors are MOV surge protectors. Some companies, like SurgeX, use a different and much more effective technology. You pay for it, though.

Incognito
04-12-2012, 11:43 PM
Not the gear we use. Computers yes, which as I noted is where the power conditioning nonsense began. That doesn't mean that you should ignore the usefulness of surge protection, since it is such cheap protection. But in 47 years of doing this not only have I never lost a piece of gear to a power surge, I've never met anyone who has either.

Carnivals are the norm here where I am from (large trucks stacked with sound systems ran off of generators) & through the years I have seen a number people upset in that time after one (or more) of the newer designed switch mode technology (funny because that's the same technology found in car amps) die (toroidal based amps are a lot more robust) from allowing their none inverted generator run low on fuel to the point that the out going voltage started to fluctuate.I have seen amps driven to thermal protection due to voltage sags while people are trying to still reach full spec from given amps (voltage drops so the amperage rises thus generating more heat even though the same power is being drawn) but this was a real rarity.

While personally with my own gear I lost an entire recording studio (whole studio was only about a month old at the time) due to the power utility workers working in the area (without given notice) not following proper notice procedure then cause a brown out on one leg while the other taking a voltage spike, some gear survived while others weren't so lucky. I now have a secondary surge arrestor at point of entry to my house service to protect all my home electronics but for my mobile gigs I use a SMPS surge protector with EMFI & RFI filters & don't really worry too much about brown outs etc. since they're very rare (though a simple computer UPS system would offer great protection for such things).

kipperj
04-13-2012, 06:22 AM
That depends on the technology used - MOV surge protectors are MOV surge protectors. Some companies, like SurgeX, use a different and much more effective technology. You pay for it, though.

I use a Juice Goose conditioner. I was just wondering if it is enough to protect my small mobile DJ system from surges.

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-13-2012, 07:26 AM
I use a Juice Goose conditioner. I was just wondering if it is enough to protect my small mobile DJ system from surges.
Reality check: even a 50 cent MOV provides all the protection you need. Gear is designed to work with voltage spikes of at least four times normal operating voltage with no harm, the power supply capacitors absorb those spikes like a sponge.

kipperj
04-13-2012, 09:19 AM
Reality check: even a 50 cent MOV provides all the protection you need. Gear is designed to work with voltage spikes of at least four times normal operating voltage with no harm, the power supply capacitors absorb those spikes like a sponge.

Thanks for that. Seriously. I learn something new every day. It's unbelievable how people can sell useless crap. It's even more unbelievable that I buy it..

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-13-2012, 11:16 AM
Thanks for that. Seriously. I learn something new every day. It's unbelievable how people can sell useless crap. It's even more unbelievable that I buy it..In a world full of snake oil power conditioners are hardly the worst offenders. Have a look here, and yes, people really do buy this stuff:

http://www.machinadynamica.com/index.html

DJStevieRay
04-13-2012, 11:27 AM
Rotflmao!!!!!!!!!


new audio and video accessory!! Introducing codename blue meanies, an advanced audio and video tweak. Codename blue meanies is a set of 4 adhesive-backed treated 3/4" blue dots, one for each wall. Price $99 per set of 4. Codename green meanie for the room ceiling (one per ceiling) is now available. Blue and green meanies are not vibration dampers nor do they affect room acoustics - they operate via mind-matter interaction. For audio and video systems.

Gjhowe1
04-13-2012, 02:16 PM
they operate via mind-matter interaction.



http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/592/my-brain-is-full-of-fuck.jpg


They do what? WOW......

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-13-2012, 04:55 PM
they operate via mind-matter interaction.
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/xgllya_2.gif

Incognito
04-13-2012, 10:03 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/xgllya_2.gif

Benny Hill FTW!!

DJ Higgumz
04-14-2012, 12:33 AM
Anyways back to conditioners, people who swear by them generally hear with there eyes. Same thing with car audio capacitors. To me they are useful as a meter and a powerstrip, that is about it, and I wouldn't mind getting one for that reason. I imagine even if it did the job it would only extend the life of the power supply, but then I doubt it bc Bill mentioned the built in spike sponges.

Dont mean to hijack, but can they monitor the amount of power your drawing? That would be handy!

Incognito
04-14-2012, 02:07 AM
Anyways back to conditioners,
Dont mean to hijack, but can they monitor the amount of power your drawing? That would be handy!

Some do.

Also I must add, under the right conditions TRUE power conditioners do have their place & you WILL hear the difference just as with car capacitors (try playing heavy bass under a sagging voltage condition & you'll find out exactly what I mean in both car & pro audio as far as on tap power goes).

Another scenario, try playing your system with somewhere along the line it's sharing a neutral with lights on an electronic dimmer or some rare cases a motor such as a refrigerator compressor kicking in & out (A.K.A dirty power) then you'll quickly HEAR the difference a TRUE power conditioner will make.

Anything shy of TRUE power conditioner is nothing more then an over priced surge protector... However as I already mentioned, the average DJ will not require a TRUE power conditioner 99% of the time & on the rare occasion that one would come in handy there are other steps that can be taken for the most part to compensate for the available powers short comings to get you through a gig.

Gjhowe1
04-14-2012, 09:41 AM
Anyone know of a brand of power conditioners that can actually back up their claims? AKA is there a certain brand that's not trying to rip you off?

This whole thing makes me think of the monster cable scam a while back.....Overpriced cables that don't add any benefit.

DJStevieRay
04-14-2012, 10:19 AM
I don't know if Furman backs up its claims, but I have used Furman PL-Plus Power Conditioners for 20 years, and have NEVER had an issue with power on my equipment.

Now I cannot say if it is because of the Furman or because I never needed one.

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-14-2012, 03:59 PM
I have used Furman PL-Plus Power Conditioners for 20 years, and have NEVER had an issue with power on my equipment.
I've never used a power conditioner for 47 years, and have NEVER had an issue with power on my equipment.

Remember the story about the guy who wore a toilet seat around his neck? When asked why he replied "It's an elephant repellant". When asked why he thought it worked he replied "Look around. You don't see any elephants, do you?"

DJStevieRay
04-14-2012, 04:02 PM
Yes but I can see if I have low voltage coming to me, you won't believe how many venues send between 90V and 110V, and When they used to be racked above my dual CD players, I could read the labels of my CD's as I put them in the drawer.

Bill Fitzmaurice
04-14-2012, 05:14 PM
Yes but I can see if I have low voltage coming to me, you won't believe how many venues send between 90V and 110V.A power conditioner won't fix low voltage. A voltage stabilizer capable of enough current delivery to power your amps will cost more than the amps do. Knowing you have low voltage is of no value if you can't do anything about it, and if you must know if you have low voltage for whatever reason you can use a $19.95 meter to tell you.

Wakka
04-16-2012, 01:39 PM
I don't know if Furman backs up its claims, but I have used Furman PL-Plus Power Conditioners for 20 years, and have NEVER had an issue with power on my equipment.

Now I cannot say if it is because of the Furman or because I never needed one.

Furman is the industry standard in just about any recording studio world wide. Just ask Gearslutz, they swear by them. I also have a PL-Plus. I love everything about it, and it stopped a hiss my speakers were emitting. So I guess the filter technology in it works.

Incognito
04-16-2012, 05:20 PM
A power conditioner won't fix low voltage. A voltage stabilizer capable of enough current delivery to power your amps will cost more than the amps do. Knowing you have low voltage is of no value if you can't do anything about it, and if you must know if you have low voltage for whatever reason you can use a $19.95 meter to tell you.
This is where a TRUE power conditioner comes in handy but they don't fit into a single rack space, that's for sure. I have installed a couple over the years & you're right, they cost a hefty penny. This is why I say a decent surge protector with EMFI & RFI filters is all that the average DJ requires & if you do come to a venue with a sagging power supply then a it would take something like an over sized UPS to fully remedy this. There are small units that will also solve this issue such as an APC Line-R 1200VA but really it doesn't offer the kind of amperage that would be of use to the average DJ & are better suited to low draw requirement loads.

DJStevieRay
04-16-2012, 07:56 PM
Bill,
You are partially correct, but I have in certain scenarios, ran 1/2 the lights I normally would at a time, or turned off one sub, when I was running in low voltage situations, and it kept the show from going dark.