A Mixer & Sound card noob question

[Take5]

Hi guys! I'am really grateful to this forum and to everyone who gave me numerous useful advises in the past and again need your help.
After switching from controller to xdj/mixer set up I've noticed a loss in sound quality. I'am using the same monitors, cables but the sound coming from the mixer/speakers is not as crisp and clear as it used to be with my controller which had an internal 24/96 sound card. I'am aware that normally everyone uses an external audio interface either for recording to laptop or for connecting a mixer to software.I wonder is it possible to improve the sound quality by connecting master out of the mixer to the ins of sound card and the speakers to the sound card output? If positive, could you recommend a sound card with 24/96 quality preferably with Rca ins and outs . Can't afford a high end mixer at the moment and to be honest don't want to get rid of mine as I really like the feel and build quality of it .:)

[pete]

Follow the signal path of the sound to identify the problem.

From what I gather:
Before you were using Mp3s straight from the PC via a soundcard to your monitors.
Now you are using XDJ to play the Mp3s and the output is going from a mixer.

Do you have any info on: the original soundcard, the monitors, the quality of the MP3s (or WAV, whatever).

Passing through extra devices on the signal chain can colour the sound. But unless the equipment you are comparing is very high end to very low end, you should not have a noticable difference.
There are some people who state they can notice the difference between the quality of interconnect cables, there are also people who notice the difference on digital cables. It is all very subjective.

If you can objectively notice a difference (do double blind testing) then you may have an issue somewhere.

Is your mixer set up correctly? - I'm thinking something obvious like EQ accidentally messed with, or a phono/line switch on the wrong setting.
How about the monitors? Remember that the thing that will most affect their sound is the placement.

Buying another soundcard would just add another item in the signal chain.
Another DAC.
Anther chance to mess up the sound.

So better not to invest in something that will not solve your issue.

[Take5]

Follow the signal path of the sound to identify the problem.

From what I gather:
Before you were using Mp3s straight from the PC via a soundcard to your monitors.
Now you are using XDJ to play the Mp3s and the output is going from a mixer.

Do you have any info on: the original soundcard, the monitors, the quality of the MP3s (or WAV, whatever).

Passing through extra devices on the signal chain can colour the sound. But unless the equipment you are comparing is very high end to very low end, you should not have a noticable difference.
There are some people who state they can notice the difference between the quality of interconnect cables, there are also people who notice the difference on digital cables. It is all very subjective.

If you can objectively notice a difference (do double blind testing) then you may have an issue somewhere.

Is your mixer set up correctly? - I'm thinking something obvious like EQ accidentally messed with, or a phono/line switch on the wrong setting.
How about the monitors? Remember that the thing that will most affect their sound is the placement.

Buying another soundcard would just add another item in the signal chain.
Another DAC.
Anther chance to mess up the sound.

So better not to invest in something that will not solve your issue.

Thanks for response Pete. I should have been more specific on describing my sound issue. When I mentioned a loss in SQ I meant mostly the high frequencies.I still can hear it on my mixer but it's not as crisp and clear as on my controller -laptop set up. I've tested both sources with the same file (320) on the same monitors recently again and the difference is obvious. All the EQ's on the mixer and on controller were set to 0.To get the same quality of HF on the mixer I need to turn Hf knob significantly further then 0. And by the way the low frequencies on the mixer sound a lot deeper then on my controller. Probably this is a special trait of the mixer. During the sound test the monitors were placed on the same spot, the phono/line switch on the mixer set to line, all EQ's set to 0. The monitors were connected from booth out (Rca) of controller to TRS on the monitors and from booth out(RCA) of the mixer to monitors.

The equipment : Controller - Hercules Rmx 2, Mixer - Dateq Xtc2, Monitors - EV Zxa1, Cables - Oyade, Pioneer Xdj's.

[pete]

It seems you are doing everything right.

From what I see there is two items in the new signal path that could be causing the issue.
Output from the XDJ.
Output from the Dateq.

Now the XDJ is fairly standard stuff. It should not be the issue but a simple test can check this.

The Dateq is a rare beast, but they were known for quality back in the day. I think this could be more of the issue, as it might have a sound signature better suited to clubs than to home listening.

If you really want to be sure where the problem is coming from then you need to get the same track and test it through the two systems.

If you record directly onto your computer soundcard from the Hercules booth putput into something like Audacity, you will get a waveform.
Do the same thing, same track, but going from the Dateq.

So take the Dateq recording. Invert the track. Combine it with the Hercules recorded track.
What you will be left with is all the elements the Hercules has that the Dateq doesn't.

If you hear mainly high frequencies, then you can be sure the mixer is cutting off the high stuff.

You would then reverse the process to see things the Dateq has that the Hercules is missing.
Also try with a direct output from the XDJ, so you can eliminate it from your analysis.

A scientific and objective approach to analyse the problem!

If there is little or no difference, then it is not the mixer or XDJ causing the issue. It could be cables.

[Take5]

Thanks for your advice Pete, will definitely do this test, although I'am sure in advance that Hercules gonna win:) I know that sound quality and human perception is a subjective thing but let me ask you, if one day I'll decide to go for another mixer let's say Xone 43 or similar Xone mixer will I get an advantage in SQ over Dateq? I;am mostly interested in crisp highs and clear mids. Dateq feels really good and built as a tank but something is missing in SQ for my taste. It was released in 2007 so probably SQ technology is a little bit outdated. Anyway,would be great to read your opinion on Xone mixers.Thanks in advance.

[pete]

Different people like different mixers.
I've heard people say the cheapest mixers have the cleanest quality because it has the shortest, unimpeded signal path.
I've heard people say that one mixer has great sound, only for it to be trashed talked a few years later when the technology improves.
I've seen people spend a fortune on exotic analog mixers, only to put digital sound through them.

Allen and Heath have a good rep. They are not to my taste for a few reasons, mainly the layout or quirks of their mixers (above all the amazing filter, which makes a 'pop' sound whenever you turn it on unless you are careful). Most people who buy them like them.

I presently use Ecler stuff, as I have done on-and-off for the last 17 years. It gives a nice sound to my ears and the EQs suit my style. However, I can't recommend them as they are all obsolete and Ecler pulled out of DJ stuff.
The nicest sounding mixer, to my ears, that I have used was a Urei 1601. Even though it was digital, it had a lush sound, while being razor sharp for mixing. Sadly they have a design fault which kills them off, as happened to mine. Again, an obsolete mixer, by a company that has pulled out of DJ stuff.

You get what you pay for. At some point a budget mixer will be replaced. However owning a super-expensive mixer just seems a waste of cash unless you are using it regularly.
If possible, find a DJ shop to visit where you can try the mixers. You may end up with something completely different than you expect. Also gives you a chance to try mixers by other brands. Try out some of the newer Pioneers, or DJ Tech, they both seem to be putting out some interesting stuff.

[Take5]

Talkin about Ecler mixers, could you describe their sound? How different is it from A&H and Pio mid range mixers? I know this is a silly question, but they are not available in my local stores, no chance to listen to them( From what I saw on Youtube , it's sound seemed to me very clean but very flat. I also wonder if the headphone volume is tailed to the master or not ? I'am an amateur bedroom Dj and like you said there is no point for me wasting the money on top mixers, in addition I'am using just two channels.Something simple but quality(preferably with filter and channel levels) would be perfect for me in the future. A new Pio 450 seems tempting but their SQ reputation pushes me away from considering it as a new purchase plus it's not cheap( Have never heard about Dj Tech but will watch some reviews. Thanks Pete!

[pete]

Impossible for me to describe sound without coming over like some sound-quality nazi that you would see on headphone forums or something.
Ecler sound flat, the EQs give me the control I seek over the frequencies I want to change. Allen and Heath sound a little bit warmer but still kinda flat. However I have very limited experience with older A&H stuff.

Pio got a bad reputation for sound quality from mixers they released 20 years ago. Also their brand name sounds like "Pie On Ear" - not the best sounding thing :P
They have cleaned up their act since. Just don't expect them to be using the best quality components because they are looking to scrape as much margin as possible through their Bills Of Materials. They can then use the saved cash on marketing their stuff as "industry standard". The 450 does look like a very well-featured mixer, and I think it is safe to assume the sound will be good.

[Take5]

No worries about Ecler sound, Pete, it's all subjective anyway:) I'll try to find the place that sells them. Just one more question if you don't mind:) I normally spin funky-jacking-chicago type of house, Dj Sneak,Scrubfish, Joey Youngman, Bryan Jones etc. I don't do long blends normally. Will the Ecler (considering his EQ frequencies) fit to my music style?

[pete]

No worries about Ecler sound, Pete, it's all subjective anyway:) I'll try to find the place that sells them. Just one more question if you don't mind:) I normally spin funky-jacking-chicago type of house, Dj Sneak,Scrubfish, Joey Youngman, Bryan Jones etc. I don't do long blends normally. Will the Ecler (considering his EQ frequencies) fit to my music style?
Yes.

If you don't want to break the bank, have a look at this cheeky number.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ecler-Nuo-2-Mixer-/292074835875?hash=item4401044fa3:g:9ZoAAOSwol5Y4W8 5

[Take5]

Thanks for the link , Pete. I'am not gonna change a mixer in near future anyway, but will consider an Ecler for my next purchase. Will try to get used to my dutch friend:) Thanks for your help.All the best!

[pete]

Good choice. I can't recommend Ecler these days as they are getting old and the company doesn't do DJ stuff anymore.
It is always best to master your own equipment and work to its strengths.
All mixers have weak points.