Vinyl to MP3 Equipment [Archive]

MaxiK925

08-16-2016, 01:35 AM

Hello all,

I recently gained access to a fairly comprehensive vinyl collection of music from back in the trance, progressive, hard house, days filled with a lot of great music from labels such as Bedrock, Fire 999, Nukleuz, Red Parrot, Positiva, and many many more that have been bought up and forgotten about over the years. Although irrelevant, the collection also contains one of 500 worldwide presses of the Cass & Slide track "Glad I ate her" among other obscure and forgotten about music which I thought was pretty cool..

Anyways, to the point..

I really wish to incorporate this music into my sets, and a vast majority of these tracks are no longer in press, much less ever released digitally (It's actually kind of sad to think that as time moves on, a lot of this music will quite literally cease to exist). I could practice and develop some skill in vinyl and buy a couple of technics to run with my two controllers on a 4 channel mixer, but I'd rather record them digitally to preserve the sound quality of their current condition and avoid further wear and tear. This presents a couple of variables though, primarily consistent and steady tempo suitable for mixing.

I tried to record a few tracks with a cheap belt driven Numark USBTT just to see what a consumer recorder can even do sound quality wise, and while the quality was perfectly acceptable for use, the track tempos came out very inconsistent, often at odd results such as 135.73BPM which makes it completely unusable..might as well be mixing a set with two $30 target turntables. So, as common sense and the basics of DJing101 dictates, I need a direct drive table, my question is what would be an acceptable model to give me the results I'm looking for without having to fork over a few grand for a studio grade precision turntable?

Would a Technics MK2 cut it? I was thinking of purchasing a MK2 and another digital mixer with an analog in to record the tracks that way. I did some searching on the boards, but didn't really find much. Does anyone have any other suggestions as far as equipment and method?

Thanks

DTR

08-16-2016, 03:03 AM

So what if it's 135.73bpm, as long as it stays constant?

But yes, a decent direct drive will give you a more reliable speed. We recorded all our vinyl (and still do) with a 1210 Mk2, a preamp and an M-Audio 2496 soundcard to covert the analogue to digital.

andymunro

08-16-2016, 03:19 AM

Welcome to the forum!

A technics Mk2 would certainly cut it, but unless you pay a fortune for a brand new one, I'd recommend buying the very best 2nd hand unit you can find but still have it serviced to make sure it is spinning correctly.

One thing to consider when using vinyl rips in software, and for beat grids to be perfectly aligned, is that records may be slightly warped and you will see this with the needle raising up and down, so it's virtually impossible to get a perfect beat tempo from start to finish. But with a freshly calibrated Mk2 you'll get the best result you can hope for.

You should buy a brand new stylus though, and invest some time and effort with vinyl cleaner to make sure it's a crackle and pop free as possible.

My mate has recently bought a Pioneer DJM 350 that you can record direct to usb as wav, he did a tune for me and the result was brilliant so it's worth looking into.

Windows 95

08-16-2016, 07:38 AM

Another vote a used Technics 1200.

Make sure the cart is a Hi-Fi cart, not a DJ cart.
A very cheap one that sounds pretty good is the Shure M97XE. (about $100)
Another very cheap one that sounds pretty good is the Audio-Technica 120E. (about $130)
Another popular cheap Hi-Fi cart that sounds pretty good is the Denon DL-103 (about $225)

I'd recommend a Pro-Ject Phono Box USB phono preamp. (about $160)

David Bowman

08-16-2016, 07:50 AM

1200/1210 with a hifi cartridge.

the track tempos came out very inconsistent, often at odd results such as 135.73BPM which makes it completely unusable..

A lot of the older releases have the odd BPM, use your ears to beatmatch.

Hippie

08-16-2016, 06:02 PM

A good anti vibration mat will help reduce tt noise and give you a better recording compared to a dj slipmat

stomp

08-16-2016, 09:28 PM

Only Technics. What mixer you have?

pete

08-17-2016, 02:53 AM

If it is at all possible to find digital copies of the tracks, don't bother converting them. Vinyl will never sound as good (objectively) as a digital copy direct from the production studio. You are wasting time and money trying to convert the tracks and will never get close to a professional standard.

Having said all that it is perfectly possible to produce decent copies with a decent turntable, decent cartridge and, most importantly, well prepared records.
You will need to clean them as best as possible before ripping them, and they had better not be scratched or used.

As for the BPM, it is perfectly normal to have a "strange BPM" for a ripped record. Back in the day mixing records was not based on BPM, it was based on ear. It was never an exact science, the potentiometers on turntables were infinitely variable, and DJs were nudging records constantly to keep them in time.
A record is not a perfect reproduction of the producer's work. It is a close approximation. A record can, and will, warp over time. It uses compromises to reproduce the sound spectrum and stereo image using the technology of a stylus running and scraping a groove in vinyl.
You can't compare this with the modern DJig of rock-solid fixed BPMs on digital equipment.

light-o-matic

08-17-2016, 07:27 AM

If you're ONLY using it for recording old vinyl, a Technics is unnecessarily expensive and might not even be the best sounding. Unfortunately, with vinyl becoming all the rage again, used hifi turntables have shot up in price again, they used to be gettable for super cheap. I have a Rega Planar 2 that I found in the trash! So yea, something like the Rega, Thorens, Systemdek, etc.. a deal in a used, good condition belt drive.. not a shitty belt drive.. a good hifi one. Get a fresh belt for it. But if you are lucky enough to find a cheap Tech 1200 in good condition then that's good too.

Then you will want a real good cartridge for it, which will cost you. But that is really going to make a difference in your results. The Shure M97xE is considered great value at $99. Any of the better Ortofons will do fine, you prob want an elliptical stylus model for this (most DJ models are spherical stylus).

Then yea you can plug into a controller with analog input but you will get the truest sound with a higher end mixer with digital output.. or get a used hifi preamp eg. an old NAD preamp and run that into a reasonable quality sound card such as a Focusrite 2i2.. record at 48K/16 sampling rate WAV.. some would say use 96K and that will sound better but results in huge files that some programs won't play.. and voila, good quality rips that sound pretty much the same as if you were playing the original vinyl.

RRL

08-29-2016, 08:18 PM

I have 2 methods. I use either a Tascam RC 222SL orI just record the vinyl into Serato and save it as a lossless file. Can't go wrong with either one.

DJ_Ade_76

08-30-2016, 06:01 AM

Look up a digital version of said track, download. Done.
No pops, static, wow or flutter.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

David Bowman

08-30-2016, 07:35 AM

Look up a digital version of said track, download. Done.
No pops, static, wow or flutter.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2dsml3b.jpg

As an example: this, available only on vinyl. The Prodigy - Take me to the hospital, Streetlife DJs remix. Limited edition, 500 copies only. In my opinion the best remix of the track by far, so I had to purchase and remaster. I'm keeping the record stashed away and played it only twice.

I made a remastered digital version of it on first play straight out of the sleeve. Pops and static are hardly noticeable (I removed or significantly reduced by hand every single pop), same goes for wow and flutter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axKqSNJD1aY

This is the only youtube link out there I could find. It was recorded off some radio station as you can hear at the end, and sounds completely nasty/overly compressed compared to how dynamic the actual record is.

I have many whitelabels and underground records that you won't find in digital form.

DJ_Ade_76

08-30-2016, 07:39 AM

http://i64.tinypic.com/2dsml3b.jpg

As an example: this, available only on vinyl. The Prodigy - Take me to the hospital, Streetlife DJs remix. Limited edition, 500 copies only. I made a remastered digital version of it on first play straight out of the sleeve. Pops and static are hardly noticeable, same goes for wow and flutter.
No issue with vinyl only presses. It's the only way to do it in that case. I'd be pretty sure there's going to be a digital version somewhere.. after all, it's very very likely it was created on digital meda.

My comment was for generic vinyl releases, where generally, a digital version is available.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

David Bowman

08-30-2016, 07:58 AM

I actually looked up, there were none except for some compressed youtube rubbish. White labels simply cannot be found. Older records sometimes just don't exist.

Also, I have made a few remasters that were superior to anything on the internet. I once did a record remaster off a vinyl from the sixties that just popped and clicked like mad. I cleaned the crap out of the record, recorded that then surgically removed all the unwanted noise using Sony soundforge and converted that to a 4.1 file in Logic pro for public performance. The result was amazing.

My comment was for just about everything and anything. Then of course your point stands true, better to get a flawless, studio mastered digital recording when available. Though sometimes it's simply not available so it's quite handy to be able to do my own.

DJ_Ade_76

08-30-2016, 08:04 AM

Yea, if it's the only option, I would far rather do the vinyl recording/cleanup than take some awesome track with shit quality off youtube..

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David Bowman

08-30-2016, 08:09 AM

Honestly, I found myself sitting in my chair being amazed at the results, something I could not have done 10 years ago, or at a prohibitive price.

RRL

08-30-2016, 08:32 AM

http://i64.tinypic.com/2dsml3b.jpg

As an example: this, available only on vinyl. The Prodigy - Take me to the hospital, Streetlife DJs remix. Limited edition, 500 copies only. I made a remastered digital version of it on first play straight out of the sleeve. Pops and static are hardly noticeable, same goes for wow and flutter.

I have many whitelabels and underground records that you won't find in digital form.

me too. I have ripped vinyl 12 inches that I've never seen online for downloads anywhere. A few even aren't on youtube.

andymunro

08-30-2016, 08:40 AM

I recently got in touch with the producer of a classic (well it is of one particular Liverpool DJ) trance track which was vinyl only release in the 90s, over facebook messenger.

He was kind enough to dig out the Dat tape of the unmastered version, master it for me and send me the wav, just on condition I didn't give it out to anyone else. It certainly is worth reaching out to the artists, he is now thinking about digital release.

DJ_Ade_76

08-30-2016, 09:05 AM

David Bowman

08-30-2016, 09:40 AM

Some people will do that if you ask nicely. I managed to grab a few tracks that way, got and stayed in touch with many big players in the music business over the years.

Windows 95

08-30-2016, 10:21 AM

A few even aren't on youtube.A few? When I look for a song on YouTube, it's more likely not to be there, than to be there.

DJ Bobcat

08-30-2016, 10:53 AM

I recorded all my vinyl to digital years ago... I used a Xitel Nport, connected to my receiver and computer to record digitally over USB. Software was included. I had a decent linear tracking turntable, but nothing special. Yes... you get some pops and hisses here and there, but that's what you'd hear if I played them on a turntable live, so I don't see that as a big problem. I have some audio editing software I could use to clean up some of the pops and stuff, but I'd only use it if the track was really scratchy, and my vinyl is in such good condition, that just did not happen. Back in the olden days, I rarely played a record more than a couple of times. If I really liked it, I recorded onto HiFi VHS tapes so I could play 6 hours of audio without having to get up and change the record. This, of course, was LONG before I ever thought about DJing.😊

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Monkey Mouse

09-10-2016, 08:46 AM

There are surprisingly many steps and details to get the best digital copy into your computer from a vinyl record.

1) The vinyl needs to be clean - dust and dirt will degrade the sound and add more pops and clicks. A carbon fiber record brush and a basic wet record cleaning kit will get rid of 90% of the dirt. If you are hardcore, a record cleaning machine.

2) The turntable - 1200 in perfect working shape is going to work well. But the direct drive, resonant tonearm, and crappy wiring is going to take some of the detail away compared to even a basic audiophile TT, which are usually belt driven with better tonearms and wiring. Audio Advisor has a great deal right now on a Rega P1 TT with an audiophile cartridge, upgraded platter, felt mat and other items for $450 right now.

3) The cartridge - DJ cartridges are not as accurate (most of them are bass-heavy) as audiophile cartridges, neither do they have the channel separation that leads to great sound. One favorite at $100 is the ortofon 2M red, which will mount to the Technics or any headshell. You will need a basic stylus weight gauge also ($15).

4) The phono preamp - while most DJ mixers have phono pres, they are going to be low quality and leave out much of the audio detail you want to capture. A $200 phono pre is going to blow away anything in any mixer - some even come with USB to convert files to digital.

5) The audio interface/soundcard - the A to D conversion is either going to capture all the details the audio chain is giving you, or is going to leave a lot out. You can spend a boatload like I did and buy a high end multi-channel unit like an Apogee, RME, Universal Audio (I have a UA apollo), or you can get something really solid such as a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (or any other equivalent) for a really great a to d conversion. You may have a soundcard already that would work perfectly. The better the analog to digital conversion, the better the files will sound.

6) Editing the files - while you can get programs to eliminate noise and pops, it is expensive. You can use a basic free program like Audacity to remove pops and clicks and then normalize the audio file to "modern" levels so you don't have to ride the gain to get a good volume.

Ewan mack

10-24-2016, 02:13 PM

I have the same issue. Over 1000 vinyl collected over the past 20 odd years and some are just too rare/ white labels etc. While I still have 1210s, I thought it would be easier to buy one of those ion products which outputs directly to my mac and then use serato to clean up. Are the ion products far inferior to a 1210, mixer, ADC etc?

David Bowman

10-24-2016, 02:49 PM

Simply put, Ion is garbage.

pete

10-24-2016, 03:21 PM

It would cost money to buy an Ion product when you already have superior turntables and the serato interface to import the tracks.
You gain nothing by spending money on inferior equipment, not even time and certainly not in quality.

David Bowman

10-24-2016, 03:32 PM

The ion software apparently takes half an hour to convert a record to mp3 while not being supported by many operating systems. I have software here that does it in seconds.

Nicadraus

10-25-2016, 04:02 AM

Just get a Behringer UCA202 soundcard which is around $20. Use it for transferring vinyl to digital. I would suggest to save them first as WAV before converting the files to MP3 (320kbps or 256kbps at least).

I have a Tarktor A6 but I just use the UCA202 for simple vinyl ripping.

efinque

10-25-2016, 04:50 AM

From what I gathered, some controllers with an audio interface have phono inputs which could be used for ripping vinyl to mp3s. Sound quality might not be the best but at least you'll save some $ by not having to buy a separate phono preamp/mixer/another interface. You could also try to find someone with a spare turntable and a cartridge and borrow those for the project.

There are also USB turntables but I have no experience with them..

greenlight

10-25-2016, 05:34 AM

Lots of good advice already in this thread. As has been said, it's a time consuming and involved process to get a good transfer, so if at all possible seek out a digital version.

Preparing the vinyl so it's nice and clean is probably the most laborious bit, but essential in my opinion - cleaning up pops and clicks in software takes even longer! I've not had much success cleaning at home so have taken some of my favourite tracks to a local vinyl specialist and got them to do the cleaning for me. I'm planning to try a diy vacuum cleaning rig at some point, or get hold of one of these: http://www.vinylvac.net (the diy versions are very similar, basically a bit of plastic pipe with a slot in it).

Once it's clean I use a Technics 1200 fitted with an Ortofon Archiv stylus, hooked up to a decent hifi amp, then take the tape out signal into my audio interface & record as lossless. If there are real problems with clicks and pops then I use a great bit of software called "ClickRepair" http://www.clickrepair.net to get rid of those. I've tried all sorts of de-noise plugins for DAWs but ClickRepair is much better. Final stage is to run it through a mastering limiter (I use Ozone).

David Bowman

10-25-2016, 07:39 AM

cleaning up pops and clicks in software takes even longer!

I have a tool in Sony Soundforge that also does it in seconds. I only do by hand when it is a very loud pop here and there.

Puregroove

10-25-2016, 09:54 AM

It makes sense to get a Technics because you can also practise vinyl mixing with it.

Personally, I rip with an Ortofon DJ Elliptical through an Ecler NUO 3 flat using balanced cables coming out of the master outputs using XLR. The Ecler has a good pre-amp. I use a Focusrite 2i2 as my converter.

Very pleased with the results.

About the DJ stylii being overly bassy - well, there certainly is a lovely bass sound being produced, but also the mids and highs are very well produced as well, so maybe some are better than others.

Also, I clean my vinyl beforehand throughly and only buy as mint condition records as I can.

One can discuss theory until infinity, however at the end of the day, if your ears are pleased with the sound, as Manu was saying for his sixties record, then you've got a good rip set-up.

Windows 95

10-25-2016, 12:21 PM

There are also USB turntables but I have no experience with them..The cheap ones aren't very good. There's some good ones in the $300 - $600 range.

Sony PS-HX500 $600
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC USB $500
Audio-Technica LP1240-USB $450
Teac TN-300 $400
Pro-Ject Essential II USB $400
Audio-Technica LP120-USB $300

Ewan mack

10-26-2016, 02:33 PM

Really useful advice guys - cheers.

rikv

10-30-2016, 12:37 PM

Instead of ripping and tagging hours of music, you'll never play again in the future....
Isn't the cheapest way to go digital... buying the mp3's you need for a gig?

Windows 95

10-30-2016, 12:53 PM

Instead of ripping and tagging hours of music, you'll never play again in the future....
Isn't the cheapest way to go digital... buying the mp3's you need for a gig?There is a lot more music on vinyl that isn't available for digital download than there is music on vinyl that is available for digital download.

Puregroove

10-30-2016, 12:54 PM

Instead of ripping and tagging hours of music, you'll never play again in the future....
Isn't the cheapest way to go digital... buying the mp3's you need for a gig?

Depends what kind of DJ you are. Hourses for courses.

ImNoDJNo

10-30-2016, 07:39 PM

There is a lot more music on vinyl that isn't available for digital download than there is music on vinyl that is available for digital download.

But if it is available on digital, the digital version is likely to be of much superior quality than a home rip on consumer gear.

ImNoDJNo

10-30-2016, 07:40 PM

Puregroove

10-30-2016, 07:53 PM

But if it is available on digital, the digital version is likely to be of much superior quality than a home rip on consumer gear.

I dunno man, you could well find it's a bit honky in the top mid range and clicky on the kick, as usual. The vinyl rip probably wouldn't be. Pick yer poison.

:teef:

light-o-matic

10-30-2016, 08:50 PM

My .02 on this for what it's worth:

1) The Technics 1200 is a quite decent turntable, if you have one then sure, use it. BUT if you are just buying it to rip vinyl there are much less expensive excellent options so far as sound quality goes. Your sound-quality-for-the-money is FAR higher if you buy a hifi turntable. You can get a used serious hifi turntable eg Systemdek, Ariston, Rega, even an old Thorens is a great turntable.. are all selling at prices below Technics at the moment. Clean em up, put a fresh belt on there and then

2) Put your money into an excellent cart with elliptical stylus (as mentioned by someone else earlier in this thread). Because that's where the rubber hits the road. A great DJ cart isn't necessarily the best sounding cart.. but for ripping you want a great SOUNDING cart. If it sounds less than great, that's a loss of quality in your rip that you can never get back.

3) As far as preamp, a hifi preamp is better than a DJ mixer due to fewer stages, simpler, less noise. And those are also available at great prices used if you know what you are looking for. But a great DJ mixer can work too.. ideally one with no EQ's or with EQ's that can be totally bypassed like the Xone:62, which is a great sounding mixer.

4) And then yea, a GOOD converter.. NOT Behringer. Because come on, you're going to spend a lot of time doing all this ripping, and once it's done, you're not doing it again. Whatever quality you get, that's it.. FOREVER. So you probably want not just high enough quality rips to sound good on whatever gear you have now, but that'll sound good on whatever you might ever have... Keep in mind that you might be preserving this history not just for yourself but for future generations...

All this does not have to cost a fortune. Everything I've mentioned above with carefully shopping can be had for under $500. The whole setup.

Windows 95

10-30-2016, 08:54 PM

But if it is available on digital, the digital version is likely to be of much superior quality than a home rip on consumer gear.If you wet wash your records, use an anti-static gun, and use a hi-fi cart. I doubt most people would be able to distinguish which is which.

Windows 95

10-30-2016, 09:15 PM

4) And then yea, a GOOD converter.. NOT Behringer.What do you mean by converter? I just go from my phono pre-amp directly into my audio interface.

Windows 95

10-30-2016, 09:23 PM

BTW if you're buying a used phono pre-amp. Don't buy one with a vacuum tube. They are more expensive & color the sound. They are for listening, not recording.

A lot of people prefer the sound of a vacuum tube preamp. But it's like EQing, something you don't want when archiving your music.

Puregroove

10-30-2016, 09:39 PM

Also, when ripping vinyl, you can often think "Eh? This doesn't have quite the same subjective perceived volume as my digital files" even when you've normalised it to the same level.

No, you haven't recorded it wrong. This comes with the territory and is due to a handful of perfectly legitimate reasons. If it really bugs you, you could muck about with maximisers and enhancers and eq's and such, although you could argue if you're going to do that, then why bother with the vinyl in the first place. Don't buy a 60's Ferrari as opposed to a 2016 Ferrari and then add loads of gear to turn it into a bad copy of a 2016 Ferrari.

But then again, this is why we have gain controls when DJ'ing, and if you're in a place that doesn't offer you any headroom volume-wise, fuck em. Last place that did that to me I pressed the flanger effect knob, stuck it down with some superglue and minced out in a hissy fit.

light-o-matic

10-30-2016, 09:43 PM

What do you mean by converter? I just go from my phono pre-amp directly into my audio interface.

Converter meaning Analog-To-Digital-Converter.. ADC.. which is what's in your audio interface.
And yea there's no limit to what you can spend on that, there are some crazy expensive ones. But there are quite a lot of good ones that aren't super expensive. Someone mentioned the Focusrite 2i2 earlier, which is what I have. It's certainly not the top top top of the line converter but @ $150 new it's certainly a good option for those who care about sound quality but can't afford a true studio quality unit. I paid $65 for mine on ebay and I'm quite happy with it. There are several others in that league that are good. But it is all about your needs. If I had a substantial collection of vinyl that wasn't available on a digital format already, and I wanted to preserve it, I might consider looking at an even better converter than what I have. It's amazing what you can find used.

But my point is, it's a real shame to put in the time and care to preserve these vinyl pieces of history and then compromise the result by using an audio interface no better than what's in every budget laptop.

Puregroove

10-30-2016, 11:01 PM

It was me who mentioned the Focusrite and elliptical stylus, I believe.

I don't know as much as people like Light-O-Matic but I'd take a punt and say this guy'd would be more than happy with the Focusrite. And because it's inexpensive, it gives you more money to put towards the TT and cartridge.

Also, can't remember whether anyone's mentioned it, but you have to budget for some nice quality cables as well. Balanced, as your aim is to get as clean a sound as possible.

Good direct drive turntable, good elliptical stylus, good preamp, good cables, good converter, good software. Nothing has to be top of the line Audiophile stuff, but it's a case of weak link in the chain. Make everything decent.

I'll refer to my own setup again as an example : Technics 1210 with Ortofon DJ E stylus. Ecler NUO 3 mixer (decent preamp like the A&H). Cables that I can't remember what they're called but they're from Thomann.de and they're decent balanced XLR budget ones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, and Audacity running at 32-bit float. Running at full green on the Ecler just flirting with first yellow. All EQs flat. Through Focusrite set on about 50% on both channels recording volume, hot signal from the mixer (Master out at more or less 100% - no it doesn't distort from this output at that level), headroom on Audacity at around a couple of decibels or 3 decibels for normalisation afterwards.

That gives me what to my ears is a very satisfying result. Now maybe others may disagree, and also it depends on your preamp a lot what you do with the levels etc. elsewhere. But my music is not a million miles from yours and it's turning out well. I think a lot of it depends on the music. 60's Soul 45's may be different from Techno. Perhaps affecting cartridge choice, preamp etc.

The other thing is I've read a couple of times about the Scarlett's "transparent" sound and it is recommended for ripping vinyl for that reason. I read about that when I was researching it before buying it.

I mucked around a lot with playing the vinyl through headphones, then immediately switching to a rip of it using the above equipment, and was satisfied.

The other thing I'd say is that if you buy DJ equipment, namely a 1200/1210 and a quality mixer like Rane, A&H or Ecler then you can also use it for a vinyl DJing setup, which is a considerable point. Dunno whether you have any desires in that direction. If not, then you can do it considerably cheaper by going for the alternative turntable and preamp route, but then you can't use that for DJing. Not the kind of music you're talking about anyway.

BTW - My setup was constructed using bits I already had and sound advice from people like on this thread, so I've been through this process a short while ago.

Oh - and another very important step is getting that vinyl clean and static-free first. Now that is a completely different thread in itself. I have my own little black-magic-through-trial-and-error way of doing that through experience and again, it really is personal what you want to do and what you find works for you.

The whole ripping thing is a very organic process, and each individual seems to have a slightly different way of doing it.

Nicadraus

10-30-2016, 11:12 PM

My .02 on this for what it's worth:

4) And then yea, a GOOD converter.. NOT Behringer. Because come on, you're going to spend a lot of time doing all this ripping, and once it's done, you're not doing it again. Whatever quality you get, that's it..

I rip my vinyl using the UCA202 and recodring is made with Wavelab. I can easily fix the highs, mids, lows and volume output if needed. The Behringer UCA202 is the simplest audio interface that can do the job. Been using it for years. You'll be surprised what this cheap little thing can do. It even has an optical output which I use to connect it to my MD player via optical cable.

Windows 95

10-30-2016, 11:18 PM

Converter meaning Analog-To-Digital-Converter.. ADC.. which is what's in your audio interface.
And yea there's no limit to what you can spend on that, there are some crazy expensive ones. But there are quite a lot of good ones that aren't super expensive. Someone mentioned the Focusrite 2i2 earlier, which is what I have. It's certainly not the top top top of the line converter but @ $150 new it's certainly a good option for those who care about sound quality but can't afford a true studio quality unit.If you don't already have an audio interface, I'd just get a good USB phono preamp.

The Pro-Ject Phono Box USB for both moving magnet and moving coil phono cartridges.
about $160
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Audio-Phono-preamp-outputs/dp/B0085JLTO4

The Music Hall pa2.2 for both moving magnet and moving coil phono cartridges, with a headphone amp.
about $400
https://www.amazon.com/Music-Hall-pa2-2-Preamplifier-Converter/dp/B01LY3UF6T

Puregroove

10-30-2016, 11:32 PM

Or, if you're on a real budget and don't mind it sounding really shit, you could just do this :

http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?54442-D-oh-(Recording-thru-wrong-interface)

:teef:

On a completely unrelated note, Positiva eh? That brings back memories. Mostly involving gently clenching ones teeth and mildly sweating.

ImNoDJNo

10-31-2016, 02:38 AM

If you wet wash your records, use an anti-static gun, and use a hi-fi cart. I doubt most people would be able to distinguish which is which.

Thats not going to remotely approach the quality of a mastered version by a professional from the source material.

Fidelity is important to me as someone who loves sound and music.

ImNoDJNo

10-31-2016, 02:39 AM

I dunno man, you could well find it's a bit honky in the top mid range and clicky on the kick, as usual. The vinyl rip probably wouldn't be. Pick yer poison.

:teef:

I dont know what you are basing these assumptions on.

pete

10-31-2016, 03:12 AM

One other thing that has not been mentioned in this thread is the vinyl mastering engineer that worked on the vinyl master and the pressing.

I know some people that only bother ripping records that are mastered by people who know their trade, and that the master was done at the pressing plant within certain parameters. Vinyl is usually really hard compromise in order to put the music onto the disc, it never sounds perfect, let alone the physical decay from being played.

We all know that a 12" will sound different from an album track.
For example the 3 Feet High and Rising pressing I have has always required tons of gain in order to be mixed with any other track.
Even then, the UK pressing I have is known for sounding as undynamic as f@ck.
All because they were trying to fit a load of songs onto each side of vinyl.
Great, classic album, almost ruined by the fact they were using vinyl and did not think through the mastering and pressing process correctly.

If I compare this to any of my records with the mastering work by Nilesh Patel, or George Peckham, it is night and day.
I can not sing the praises of these guys enough, they are gods among men.

There would be absolutely no benefit for me to rip my UK pressed De La album when the digital version would sound a million times better. And now we can never can't get a re-master from Nilz because he's dead. RIP.

Windows 95

10-31-2016, 03:54 AM

Thats not going to remotely approach the quality of a mastered version by a professional from the source material.

Fidelity is important to me as someone who loves sound and music.Most mp3 & a lot of vinyl re-releases don't sound as good to me as the original LPs. Part of it the loudness wars, part of it is probably different EQing or different compression.

In my opinion, usually only SACD (And some CDs.) sound better than the original LP or 12" single. (Unless they sell WAV & FLAC downloads.)

ImNoDJNo

10-31-2016, 05:47 AM

Most mp3 & a lot of vinyl re-releases don't sound as good to me as the original LPs. Part of it the loudness wars, part of it is probably different EQing or different compression.

In my opinion, usually only SACD (And some CDs.) sound better than the original LP or 12" single. (Unless they sell WAV & FLAC downloads.)

Its a case by case basis though isnt it. Every record is different, but on the whole I would suggest studio mastered versions are in general better than home rips. Thats my experience anyway.

Puregroove

10-31-2016, 09:49 AM

I dont know what you are basing these assumptions on.

Mostly experience from my preferred sound. You may think different though, which is also perfectly ok, obviously. After all, it is subjective.

Puregroove

10-31-2016, 10:06 AM

Its a case by case basis though isnt it. Every record is different.

This is very true.

Its a case by case basis though isnt it. Every record is different, but on the whole I would suggest studio mastered versions are in general better than home rips. Thats my experience anyway.

Isn't everything essentially a "Home rip" though? If you play a digital copy, you are playing it through your own equipment, which could vary from person to person. Unless you're going to open up the original DAW file and play it through exactly the equipment that the original producer/mastering guy used? Theoretically, everyone's getting a slightly different sound (albeit not necessarily noticeable) depending on how they playback the file, their DAC etc etc.

light-o-matic

10-31-2016, 10:36 AM

It was me who mentioned the Focusrite and elliptical stylus, I believe.

I don't know as much as people like Light-O-Matic but I'd take a punt and say this guy'd would be more than happy with the Focusrite. And because it's inexpensive, it gives you more money to put towards the TT and cartridge.

Also, can't remember whether anyone's mentioned it, but you have to budget for some nice quality cables as well. Balanced, as your aim is to get as clean a sound as possible.

Good direct drive turntable, good elliptical stylus, good preamp, good cables, good converter, good software. Nothing has to be top of the line Audiophile stuff, but it's a case of weak link in the chain. Make everything decent.

I'll refer to my own setup again as an example : Technics 1210 with Ortofon DJ E stylus. Ecler NUO 3 mixer (decent preamp like the A&H). Cables that I can't remember what they're called but they're from Thomann.de and they're decent balanced XLR budget ones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, and Audacity running at 32-bit float. Running at full green on the Ecler just flirting with first yellow. All EQs flat. Through Focusrite set on about 50% on both channels recording volume, hot signal from the mixer (Master out at more or less 100% - no it doesn't distort from this output at that level), headroom on Audacity at around a couple of decibels or 3 decibels for normalisation afterwards.

That sounds like a great process, and thanks for the vote of confidence in my info but it sounds like you have it nailed yourself.

I think all links in the chain are important but without a doubt the cartridge and stylus is first on the list, if that's not good then nothing will be. The preamp second and the ADC third. But they are all important. That was my point.. that it's actually not that expensive to get a really good quality ADC these days. $150 new, around $75 used. I paid $65 for my 2i2 used. It's a good investment. The Presonus Audiobox 2x2 @ $99 new is also supposed to be a good ADC. Some people say that the Focusrite preamps are better but in this case the preamps in the interface aren't being used so it doesn't make any difference, and ebay is chock full of used ones at $40-80.

As far as the turntable, yea I didn't mean to imply that a hifi turntable would be better than a Technics (which was also sold as a hifi turntable in its time) but that the Technics is so expensive now that it's not worth getting one to just rip vinyl when hifi turntables of equal or greater quality are available at lower prices. It's better to have a $200 cart on a $150 from ebay belt drive hifi turntable than a $75 cart on a $600 technics.

light-o-matic

10-31-2016, 10:43 AM

If you don't already have an audio interface, I'd just get a good USB phono preamp.

The Pro-Ject Phono Box USB for both moving magnet and moving coil phono cartridges.
about $160
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Audio-Phono-preamp-outputs/dp/B0085JLTO4

The Music Hall pa2.2 for both moving magnet and moving coil phono cartridges, with a headphone amp.
about $400
https://www.amazon.com/Music-Hall-pa2-2-Preamplifier-Converter/dp/B01LY3UF6T

Yea def these are great options if you haven't got a good interface already and don't want one.
Especially since even a pretty good DJ mixer will be less transparent than this much-more-direct setup.

rikv

10-31-2016, 11:42 AM

There is a lot more music on vinyl that isn't available for digital download than there is music on vinyl that is available for digital download.
There sure is...but if it ain't digital available, most probably it isn't that popular to your audience or isn't a 100% must have in your collection.

Puregroove

10-31-2016, 12:33 PM

As far as the turntable, yea I didn't mean to imply that a hifi turntable would be better than a Technics (which was also sold as a hifi turntable in its time) but that the Technics is so expensive now that it's not worth getting one to just rip vinyl when hifi turntables of equal or greater quality are available at lower prices. It's better to have a $200 cart on a $150 from ebay belt drive hifi turntable than a $75 cart on a $600 technics.

Yeah I agree totally. I guess it's important in the early stages to kind of visualise a few stages on and plan accordingly. The only reason I use Technics etc. is because I had them anyway, and I like to use turntables for sequencing. The only thing I altered about them was getting the elliptical version of the stylus, which I only use for ripping. For normal playing and Serato SL1, I use spherical stylii.

One point about vinyl rips and belt drives though - is the belt drive going to hold it at a rock steady pitch lock like a decent direct drive would? I'm not sure how important the OP thinks this is - for me it was fairly important seeing as I am going to be beatmatching the tunes (or rips of the tunes). Or perhaps a decent belt drive holds it better? I'm not that knowledgable on belt drives aside from using horrible ones in the nineties.

light-o-matic

10-31-2016, 12:44 PM

is the belt drive going to hold it at a rock steady pitch lock like a decent direct drive would?

Yes absolutely. A great belt drive usually has a fairly heavy platter (both my hifi turntables have glass platters) which, once it comes up to speed, will run very smoothly and steadily. The whole point of the belt drive is to isolate the platter as much as possible from motor vibrations and variations in speed. The only difference so far as speed would be that while a Technics uses an internal crystal oscillator to set its speed, most (not all) hifi turntables rely on the power line frequency (50hz or 60hz depending on where you live). But power line frequency is quite stable these days and may even be more stable than the oscillator in your turntable. But it can be checked with a strobe disc same as the technics.

The thing about belt drives that make them so bad for DJing.. that they don't have very large motors and don't like to start up or slow down very quickly, is what makes them good hifi turntables.

Windows 95

10-31-2016, 03:57 PM

There sure is...but if it ain't digital available, most probably it isn't that popular to your audienceIf it's already popular with the audience, why bother to hire a DJ? Just hook up the sound system to a juke box & let the audience decide what songs are played.

A DJ knows what music his audience likes & plays both songs they are familiar with. And ones they aren't familiar with, but the audience will like. This is why being a music enthusiast is more important than having technical skills in my opinion. (Unless you're a PA, Production DJ, or Turntablist.)

Windows 95

10-31-2016, 04:16 PM

It's better to have a $200 cart on a $150 from ebay belt drive hifi turntable than a $75 cart on a $600 technics.If you don't already have a 1200 & you're buying it primarily for ripping records. I would spend that $600 on a Sony PS-HX500. Just plug a USB cable from the record player to your computer & start recording. Although I don't know what cart is included with the turntable, I would guess it's a fairly good one.

12:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFeUsx2B5aw

stomp

10-31-2016, 07:12 PM

lol@the Sony. Using "Hi rez" as a catch term to distract the customer from the factual mediocre quality of the tt itself. And the guy on the video is pure genius: "Now, on the rear of the turntable you have two sockets - one left, one right, where you can plug a cable of your choice".:freak:

Puregroove

10-31-2016, 07:29 PM

light-o-matic

10-31-2016, 07:59 PM

My first turntable I ever bought was a Thorens TD-280 Mk iv, wood finish with the circular on/off and 33/45 knobs.

I got it in 1991 for 25 quid out of Exchange and Mart, and I'm ashamed to say over the years I lost track of it, and actually can't find it. I'm sure I have it somewhere.

What a prat, eh?

Can't seem to get an actual picture of it, but Google shows it here (it opens it as a big pic) :

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=thorens&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=gHOzv4yne-vFgM%253A%253BFzSMz-fiwp6_hM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.head-fi.org%25252Ft%25252F460582%25252Fthorens-td160-super-heirloom-restoration&source=iu&pf=m&fir=gHOzv4yne-vFgM%253A%252CFzSMz-fiwp6_hM%252C_&usg=__FEBFhRfOgOhF4sSOG8o0ecg-3NA%3D&biw=1280&bih=871&ved=0ahUKEwi2iOydpIbQAhUEDcAKHWVUCNQQyjcIRQ&ei=WN8XWLb8GYSagAblqKGgDQ#tbm=isch&q=TD-280+mk+iv&imgrc=c5rvaBNy5qFoIM%3A

Might have to look through all my debris and see whether I can find it (if I still have it) - I played my first ever techno record on that.

Had I known that Thorens would be so coveted years later, I would have certainly kept track of it better. To actually "lose" a turntable, eh? I'm a proper dj, honest :teef:

Hell ya I feel the same about my old Thorens TD140 which was my pride for the longest time, yet somehow I can't remember when or where over the years it left my possession. Tho if I remember the models correctly, your 280 was a higher end model than mine. My dad has a TD115 he bought new in the early 1980's which is currently sitting unused.. in fact my sister almost threw out "that old thing", I told her hell no, leave it right there and I'll come get it... Tho the 115 if I remember correctly wasn't a higher end Thorens it was still a quite nice deck. It has an Ortofon MC20 cart on it! Which I got for him back then.. and no I did not pay full price for it. I had a connection in Ortofon at the time. I wonder if I can justify the cost of getting the stylus replaced on it...

So yea if I take dads Thorens, that'll leave me with 4 total turntables in the house.. I currently have a Systemdek IIX (the turntable I'd been using for decades since whatever happened to the TD140), a Rega Planar 2, and a Technics 1200 mk2 (just one of them).. and really that's at least two turntables too many. So I'll have to decide which ones are going to go....

Windows 95

10-31-2016, 09:00 PM

And the guy on the video is pure genius: "Now, on the rear of the turntable you have two sockets - one left, one right, where you can plug a cable of your choice".:freak:It's a big enough deal that a lot of people spend money modifying their Technics to have those two sockets.

stomp

11-01-2016, 04:25 AM

Do they put "one left and one right" or they use two rights or two lefts? lol That turntable is stupid with the fact that it offers hi-rez convertor up to dsd but the elemental tt characteristics are sub par compared to Technics, so you end up with files that perfectly captured the higher wow and flutter, motor noise, weaker tonearm etc. but hey - it's HI-REZ :teef:

Windows 95

11-01-2016, 06:55 AM

motor noiseYou do realize that one of the big reasons the SL-1200 series (And direct drive turntables in general.) has been rejected by most audiophiles is because of motor noise.

Myself personally, I don't notice any motor noise. But a lot of the other criticisms audiophiles have about the SL-1200 series turntables I think are are valid.

When blind A - B comparisons were made between a similarly priced belt drive turntable and a SL-1200 series turntable. The belt drive turntable was picked overwhelmingly over the Technics turntable. In fact I haven't read one article where a direct drive turntable was picked more often than a belt drive turntable in a blind A - B listening study. Despite my having read a ton of Hi-Fi (and audiophile) magazines in the 1970s & 1980s.

Windows 95

11-01-2016, 07:04 AM

BTW if you're a Technics fan boy that wants to have a Technics direct drive turntable in your Hi-Fi system. I would suggest the getting an SP-10 MK2, SP-10 MK2A, or SP-10 mk3.

DTR

11-01-2016, 08:29 AM

Given that the only moving part of a 1200's (or Hanpin's) motor is the platter itself, I would think that the motor noise is comparable with a belt drive. But I'm just being pedantic; I agree that there's no point in buying a 1200 purely for ripping.

Actually, I'd be curious to know how that compares with the oscillations of an on-board transformer, or any turntable with an AC motor.

stomp

11-01-2016, 09:56 AM

Motor noise and 1210? lol
Audiophile snobs rejected it not because of noise but because it was seen as a dj table and because it was bashed by the bribed critics who understood well the real threat it presents for the traditional western made tt market. The very same motor and tonearm was featured in the non-dj versions 1600, 1700 and 1800.

Yes dd motors are noisy, but different ones, this one was unique design.

With the unparalleled speed stability, more than decent isolation and tonearm, getting 1210 for archiving is the least you can do if you want proper results.

light-o-matic

11-01-2016, 10:16 AM

The debate between direct and belt drive has been ongoing for as long as Technics has been making them.. which I think was first in 1969.

The basic argument for belt drive is lower noise.. both mechanical and electrical noise.
The basic argument for direct drive is speed accuracy, wow/flutter.

Keeping in mind that although the direct drive MUST use an electronic motor drive circuit (and that's how it gets its very steady speed), belt drive turntables CAN use them, they just usually don't because it's simpler not to and usually not necessary to get really good specs.

So yea you can search the internet and you'll find a ton written about this topic. But I think the reason that the belt drive remains the dominant system in hifi turntables is because getting low noise is really easy compared to direct drive, and while the direct drive has some advantages in wow specs, and sometimes in flutter.. there are other times when flutter is more of a problem in direct drive. And keep in mind that as I said, it's not like belt drive turntables CAN'T use crystal controlled motor drives to get better speed accuracy, it's just that they get good enough accuracy from the power line frequency that they don't feel the need. But I am pretty sure that some of them do use that type of drive system.

From our (DJ) perspective the Technics is obviously a great turntable and the sound is just fine.. and for us it seems obvious that any slight improvement in sound quality is not worth giving up all the advantages of the Technics drive system. But in when you are not a DJ, most of the things we like about the Technics don't matter at all and people are looking at turntables with higher isolation, lower mass arms (eg carbon fiber straight arm), etc... Things that affect sound quality that we don't think about as much because we are focused on the drive system.

ImNoDJNo

11-01-2016, 07:01 PM

If you don't already have a 1200 & you're buying it primarily for ripping records. I would spend that $600 on a Sony PS-HX500. Just plug a USB cable from the record player to your computer & start recording. Although I don't know what cart is included with the turntable, I would guess it's a fairly good one.

12:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFeUsx2B5aw

Lols built in phono amp and ADC at lowest possible cost. Doesnt even know what cart it is or even if its decent.

Will definitely make great recordings though /s

Puregroove

11-01-2016, 07:57 PM

So long as it has "Dubly" bult in, I'm sold.

Windows 95

11-02-2016, 07:06 AM

Doesnt even know what cart it is or even if its decent.Does it really matter? Even if you upgrade the cart, you're still ahead if have to pay the same amount to get a Technics turntable.

It's going to sound better than an SL-1200 series turntable. Plus you won't need to buy a phono preamp & an audio interface. And if you want to upgrade to a better phono preamp & audio interface. You can because you can switch it from line out to phono out

But it's Sony & they are marketing it as a turntable that makes really good sounding recordings. So it's most likely that it comes with a good sounding cart. (Sony & Yamaha are the two companies that make the best sounding mid level hi-fi equipment in my opinion.)