opinion on safety cables?

[DJ Higgumz]

currently i run 10+ lights on my truss without safety cables, and i hook them on with bolts. i don't really understand why i would need them, since i dont see my heavy duty bolts breaking anytime soon. i have so many cords from dmx to power that i dont want to add more. what is your opinion on safety cables? has anyone ever had a light fall? my lights seem very robust, especially my martin 812s. they weigh like a tank and are built like one too. (minus the headache when the yoke crashes the mirror when you set don't set it down carefully! not the best design.)

[Synaxis]

ALWAYS use safety cables. I cannot stress this enough.

Are you 100% certain that ALL of the bolts are defect free and will not break?

It's not about having your lights break, it's about having them fall on the crowd.

If one of your bolts does break, and a 15 pound light falls on someones head, they will sue you, and in court they will ask you if the light was properly rigged. And by properly, I mean with safety cables in place.

And yes, I have heard stories where equipment has fallen because they didn't have cables.

It was on another forum, some guy hung up Video Cameras for an event, didn't use safety cables, and the video camera fell into crowd area. Luckily, this was before the event, so no one was in that area at the time. Let's say he learned his lesson.

Safety cables are like $3, so go and spend the $30 and have piece of mind.

Have a look at: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/11934-safety-cables.html

[windspeed36]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone use the ETC hook clamps for rigging? There has been a problem over the last few months with dodgy Chinese steel and the hook clamps are breaking and fixtures are falling all over the place. If you do have ETC clamps, get in touch with them..

[BillESC]

Are you bolting the fixture or using the bolt on a clamp?

[DJ Higgumz]

I drilled holes in the truss, and bolted it. The bolts are atleast 3/8 diam., they could easily handle 200+ pounds each. That's why I asked. Is it in case the yoke is faulty or what are they for? If I had a clamp of any sort I would have cables regardless. There's just alot of fudge room for things to break. That's what I like about bolts. Very straight forward.

[Coronaoperator]

Bolts can vibrate loose. Safety cables are like fire extinguishers, you hope you never need to rely on one but if you do your glad you have it in place.

[DJ Higgumz]

good point. after this next gig i will buy enough for my setup. i know how luck works, if i dont they will fall because i ignored advice!

[Buszaj]

I drilled holes in the truss, and bolted it. The bolts are atleast 3/8 diam., they could easily handle 200+ pounds each. That's why I asked. Is it in case the yoke is faulty or what are they for? If I had a clamp of any sort I would have cables regardless. There's just alot of fudge room for things to break. That's what I like about bolts. Very straight forward.

You never drill through truss. It weakens it. It's just plain stupid. Just use industry standard C or mega-clamps, and always safety cable your fixtures. There's no question about it.

[Subprime]

1. Everything in the air should have a safety cable, not sure about where you are but here this is a legal requirement. As has been said, failure of the bolt, clamp, yoke is unlikely but if any of it does fail people die.

2. Drilling holes in truss is big no no. You have seriously compromised the structural integrity of your truss, and you may need to replace it. Truss is made of relatively thin metal, and it's only strong by its shape. Even large dents in truss can weaken it critically. You should be using clamps. Again, when you are risk assessing this, the chance of failure is relatively low, but the result of any failure is catastrophic.

This is serious business. Heavy objects falling from height do people serious harm, even at the low heights (I assume) we're talking about for your DJ lighting setup.

[DJ Higgumz]

Well the truss is second hand, and had most of the holes in it already. I plan on 18' of black box truss in the future.

[Mystic]

As others have stated; you always need safety cables. If it's not sitting on the ground, it needs a safety cable. Not only is this an issue of safety, but it's also a liability issue. In the unlikely event that a light should fall, this will prevent it from falling on you or someone else. It will also prevent possible property damage from being done from that fall. That cable should be like the seat belt in your car. As soon as you have the weight of the load on the truss and secure, that cable should be attached even before you plug the fixture in.

Lets say that you're putting a fixture on your truss and someone, maybe an event coordinator or a client calls you over to ask a question. You walk away from the work for a moment and either forget to finish tightening it up or maybe someone you work with you were expecting to do the job and it ends up not getting done. Next thing you know, the fixture is dangling from it's cables creating a dangerous situation for you and guests. You can deny the probability all you want, but it happens more than anyone wants to admit. It's happened to people I've worked with and I've had it happen myself. It's a lesson you only need to learn once before you never make that mistake again and double check every bolt and every connection before you ever send a rig into the air.

I've seen lights fall, I've seen them left dangling by cables, I've seen whole sticks of truss go up in the air and fall apart because someone didn't tighten the bolts for whatever reason. It's not just your job as the owner, it's your responsibility to protect the clients and their guests from any possible situation that could become a hazard.

Which brings me to your truss: it needs to be replaced. By your drilling holes in it, you've compromised the integrity of it as well as negated the load rating. You've essentially turned it into scrap metal because if something ever does happen, you will be held liable because of your modifications to the original intended design and use.

If we learned one thing this past year, it's that stupidity and ignorance is no longer acceptable in this line of work. 6 major accidents last summer within the span of a month because people who shouldn't have been in the seat of authority and instruction because they didn't know what the hell they were doing has put an unflattering spotlight on the entertainment industry. It doesn't matter if you're running a multi-million dollar show or a $2000 DJ rig, there is no room for mistakes that put people at risk because you don't have the knowledge of the gear you need in order to be qualified to use it.

Sure, you may think your truss is stable enough with holes drilled in it for a 30 pound fixture, but what if you're wrong because of the lack of knowledge you have? What if your truss crumples in the middle of a show due to the compromised integrity from drilling holes through it and it falls off balance right on to the crowd? You can believe it won't happen, but I've seen way too many stupid things happen that will prove your theory wrong, and if something ever did happen because of ignorance... well, good luck with that.

[DJ Higgumz]

Ahh so much scolding in one night. What's done is done, and I am confident in it's strength because when we lowered it once, it came down faster than we expected, down to the safety pins in the tripods. If it didn't break then, it sure as hell shouldnt from sitting still behind the dj. ** FOR NOW. replacement truss is on the way as said.

[Mystic]

You should try and listen. We're scolding you for a reason. It's for your own good and for the safety of others.
Irregardless of your confidence, you're being told by people who know a hell of a lot more than you do that the use of this product is unwise, so I wouldn't so easily shrug it off. We're not trying to be mean, we're trying to save your ass from an accident.

[DJ Higgumz]

I never said I wasn't going to, but there's no time and money before this gig to get them on. Same goes with the holes.

[LiteTrix]

I never said I wasn't going to, but there's no time and money before this gig to get them on. Same goes with the holes.


If there's no time and money to get a new truss before this gig, then under no circumstances should you be using it. Since your only getting paid $300 for this gig why not just put the CX-4s and a couple other lights on the floor. This might look tacky but it will be a hell of a lot better than that truss coming down on someones head. The other option you fail to recognize is a t-stand. There are plenty of stands on the market that will able to hold a couple of 25 pound scanners. Get two of those and your in business. Also, if there is anyone in this thread you should be listening to, it is Mystic. He knows his stuff.

[DJ M&M]

to add on to mystic, only an engineer can reapprove a truss with holes drilled it in and thats after they asses it and determine if its still stable

[DJ Higgumz]

Just so you know, I'm not some idiot off the street. I understand engineering much more than you think. I do alot of back yard projects including welding frames together. Trust me, these holes are not going to compromise the design to the effect that it will crumble. If anything, it lost 10 lbs of it's weight capacity. This aluminum is thick a$$ tubing!

[Andrew B]

Just so you know, I'm not some idiot off the street. I understand engineering much more than you think. I do alot of back yard projects including welding frames together. Trust me, these holes are not going to compromise the design to the effect that it will crumble. If anything, it lost 10 lbs of it's weight capacity. This aluminum is thick a$$ tubing!

Don't be hard-headed. You're endangering the safety of yourself and everyone else.

The design has been compromised. Buy new truss, or don't hang lights. Those are your options.

[Mystic]

Just so you know, I'm not some idiot off the street. I understand engineering much more than you think. I do alot of back yard projects including welding frames together. Trust me, these holes are not going to compromise the design to the effect that it will crumble. If anything, it lost 10 lbs of it's weight capacity. This aluminum is thick a$$ tubing!
If you are using truss with holes drilled through it, then you don't understand half as much about engineering as you may think you do with all your "back yard experience". In fact, with a reply like that, I'm willing to bet you don't have a clue about the structural integrity of trussing and that your "back yard projects" lack any sort of real integrity that could be considered weight bearing and would likely fail any ratings tests it would be put through. Hell, the fact that you question the usefulness of safety cables with only a bolt holding a 30lb light speaks mountains about your vast knowledge you claim to have.

We were trying to help you, but with absolutely ludicrous replies like the one you just made, I'm starting to think you're pretty much helpless. You make proof of the axiom we have in this industry: you can't fix stupid. In fact, your whole attitude is the exact cause of the issues I was talking about last year when we had 6 major accidents. People who didn't have a clue and thinking they were safe when doing ultimately stupid things because they didn't know any better.

I just hope your stupidity doesn't cause someone to get hurt and put the industry even further into the spotlight of having bad safety habits.

[LiteTrix]

Just so you know, I'm not some idiot off the street. I understand engineering much more than you think. I do alot of back yard projects including welding frames together. Trust me, these holes are not going to compromise the design to the effect that it will crumble. If anything, it lost 10 lbs of it's weight capacity. This aluminum is thick a$$ tubing!


Oh the ignorance of our youth today. I remember when I was 16 and thought I knew much more than everyone else. Boy, Oh, Boy, was I wrong. We are not trying to belittle you at all. We are simply giving our opinions on the pictures and evidence that you've given us. There is no point in posting a thread asking "peoples opinions on safety cables" and getting offended when we give you are honest opinion. It's fantastic that you think your truss is some amazing piece of work but just because you do back yard welding projects doesn't make you an expert in welding. Every poster in this thread has offered very good advice, whether or not you take it, thats your choice. One fall of those robo's on someone and it can be all over. Someone could potentially be paralyzed for life and your parents can say goodbye to their house and cars. Do you even have liability insurance?

This post is not trying to insult you. It's simply trying to get you to wake up and realize what you are trying to do is wrong.

[DJ Higgumz]

Apparently no one is reading the whole thread. I agree it is a good idea to, but I am not able to at the moment cause I'm broke. After this event I can and will get them on, but I wont have them on for the event. The truss is much more sturdy than my t stand, and I've used it like this for 10 events. The truss will be behind me, so dangers of someone getting hurt are cut down a bit. When I get the money I will get new truss along with clamps. I never said that I knew everything because I can weld, but that I understand structures and the way force acts on them.

[BillESC]

Let me tell you a little story. I've been selling lighting, sound, rigging, curtains, staging and most all production related equipment for nearly 40 years. I've also done production, rentals and installations during that period.

For example, today we finished a 20K AV installation in a church and on Wednesday I'm providing sound for Shaka Smart at a Boys and Girls Club fund raiser where a table for 6 is a thousand dollars.

Ever hear of Curtis Mayfield? Mister Superfly?

I was sued along with a long list of well known people and companies including, the State of NY Parks department, Pepsi, Budwieser, several congressmen, a senator, NY's Mayor, Bash Lighting, Genie Industries, etc., etc., for 125 million dollars. Why? Because I sold a piece of rigging equipment to someone who set it up wrongly and it fell down and crippled Curtis.

A sale I made that profited me about $ 600.00 injected itself into my life for more than four years at a cost of over ten thousand dollars for something I simply was not responsible for but, due to "my proximity to the case" I was involved.

There is ONLY ONE WAY to do things. The RIGHT WAY. Any thing less can bite you hard.

[DJ M&M]

you might understand structures and loads, but unless you have a PEng you can not make those decisions and survive in court. There is a reason why we as engineers have licensing and must practice a minimum of 4 years under a PEng to get said license.

[DJ Higgumz]

I hope you guys understand that the holes are drilled vertical, not horizontal. The load transfer isn't interrupted too much

[DJ M&M]

See thats where your wrong, any holes in the truss if not properly placed could weaken its integrity. There are specific points on the truss that experience more fatigue then others when a load is applied. The only way to to know where those points for sure are to either a) do all the calculations and plot it. or b) use a program like Unigraphics and construct the exact truss in it and apply an FEA with the loads applied.

[avguy]

If you can't afford pre-made safety cables use a small piece of chain and a shackle.
It's better than nothing.

[DJ Higgumz]

I just sold an aquarium so now I'm gonna buy some clamps and safety cables.. After this next event, I can get 5 more 10 ft sticks of the same truss used for 250. Should I bite the bullet and buy all of them?

[BillESC]

What is the make and model of the truss? Is it dimensional or I beam? BTW, I stock safety cables for under $ 3.00

[DJ Higgumz]

i dont know the name of the truss, but heres a pic of mine. and no it is triangle truss.
341

keep in mind i would never set it up like this in a real gig, i would have the cords and whatnot more neater!

i would have to make some hinged corners, i want to make it 3 20ft segments, then have a hinge between them. so i would have the main one, then the two outer ones flare out.

[DYM]

5 more at $250 each = $1250.... get yourself a Global Truss pal.

Look.. for a grand you can get a RESPECTABLE and SAFE truss! (http://www.idjnow.com/StoreModules/ProductDetails.aspx/PID=SQMCP--BranchID=--DepartmentID=--SubDeptID=--CategoryID=--DeID=0--SRCH=global%20truss)

[DJ Higgumz]

Hahahaha!!! No 250 for all five! (que the brick shitting)

[Capt. Kirk]

Meh, I like the cheapness of the 5 triangular trusses for the 250 but I can already see the hassle I would have since a standard O-clamp would not do, not even a C clamp really, then there is the whole corner thing to work out. It also to me anyways does not look sturdy enough to hold what a 10ft I-beam truss could safely hold. Just looks to thin compared to the other standard trusses.

[DJ Higgumz]

The pipe thickness is really high, prob 1/4", and the diagonals are solid. Probably not as strong as global truss, but 50$ compared to 500 I think I'll stick to them.

[Mystic]

Yah, I'm pretty sure that's an accident waiting to happen and what you're looking at doing with the other truss you want to acquire is incredibly unsafe.
But what do I know? I've only been designing multi-million dollar rigs since you were probably sucking on a bottle. *shrugs*

I'd certainly be interested in knowing what the unmodified weight rating is for that truss and for those stands.

[DYM]

I have been reading this thread since the beginning... its funny and sad.

What I have learned:

You are cheap, yes we all like low expenses BUT we can not compromise on quality.

Your truss is a no-brand piece of metal that is holding your lights, we understand you like it.

You CAN mess things up and feel they still work fine... you accomplished that.

You need safety cables.

You need to use that $250 one of two ways.

1) Save it. Buy what I posted on page 3.

2) Buy a t-bar. Such as an On-Stage crank stand + Ultimate Support T-Bar fitting.

[DJ Higgumz]

I'm not putting all 60 ft between the two tripods! I probably won't even use the one with the holes. I don't see why your doubting it

[DYM]

I'm not putting all 60 ft between the two tripods! I probably won't even use the one with the holes. I don't see why your doubting it

How are you going to mount your lights then? Clamps won't fit that?

[DJ Higgumz]

You also forgot to add that I resist to others advice! Haha. I have a t stand, not including the tripods for the truss.
I bought the truss and 812s from a guy that djed for 20 years. He has 40 ft of this stuff flown 20 ft in the air. He has the heavy moving heads on it too. His gigs are a grand and up. Hey, it works for him!

[DJ Higgumz]

How are you going to mount your lights then? Clamps won't fit that?

Well I'll just drill some holes! Haha. Those C clamps would work, though I hate them they would be the go to if I can't find any o clamps

[DYM]

Ok guys I think the thread should just end because the truss works for a guy who gets a thousand dollars for DJ-ing... NOW I GOTTA BUY SOME :facepalm:

[DJ Higgumz]

I meant any event, like that is his standard. His weddings reach well over 5

[DYM]

Drill wholes! Hell, hang the truss on top of your speakers, use duct tape to hold the lights! Do some pull-ups on them during gigs, impress the ladies! Light it on fire for more effects! /thread

[DJ Higgumz]

That was sarcasm

[windspeed36]

Drill wholes! Hell, hang the truss on top of your speakers, use duct tape to hold the lights! Do some pull-ups on them during gigs, impress the ladies! Light it on fire for more effects! /thread

So was this...

[DJ Higgumz]

Yea but he thought I was serious... I think

[LiteTrix]

This guy is helpless. He think's we're all a bunch of idiots. I like DYM's idea of using duct tape to hold the lights. If you use enough, it just might be safer than drilling holds in truss. Oh wait I forgot He just has a piece of metal! :rolleyes:

[DJ Higgumz]

You guys are acting like assholes... Now the whole hole drilling thing was dodgy, but there's no reason the NEW truss is not capable of operating with my needs. Now if I was pro touring with moving heads across a 100 ft of stage then I would consider global truss or the other bigger brands. But I'm not and this isn't a perfect world and I don't have a large income. Hey, I have a Mackie amp that weights 30+ lbs. Are you gonna tell me that I shouldn't use it because it isn't a crown? Oh and it doesn't have dsp. That's a huge problem. Please if you wanted me to listen you all shouldn't be so cynical.

[matty1551]

This is the stupidest discussion ever. Even if your truss is engineered and built well it will eventually fail like all things so why would you not use cables & avoid a potential lawsuit?

[windspeed36]

We're not being assholes. We are all colectively saying that your existing truss is extremely dangerous and not using safety cables is even worse. We are giving you our honest opinons inwhich you asked for, I personally wouldn't use that truss at all if it is full of holes. It only takes one break to ruin you financially.

[Mystic]

I'm not putting all 60 ft between the two tripods! I probably won't even use the one with the holes. I don't see why your doubting it
No shit, Sherlock. Still, the way you described what you want to do is extremely dangerous not to mention you have no education on what you need to know for that type of rig.


You also forgot to add that I resist to others advice! Haha. I have a t stand, not including the tripods for the truss.
I bought the truss and 812s from a guy that djed for 20 years. He has 40 ft of this stuff flown 20 ft in the air. He has the heavy moving heads on it too. His gigs are a grand and up. Hey, it works for him!
If that's true, get off this forum and quit wasting our time. If you're trying to be sarcastic, you're failing miserably.
Regardless of what "works for him" doesn't make what he does any less dangerous. Sounds like thus far, he's simply been lucky. I also have a hard time believing that someone who makes a grand and up a gig would have shoddy truss for so long and sell it for so cheap. What is this guys website? I want to see this grand rig of his with all his moving lights.


I meant any event, like that is his standard. His weddings reach well over 5
5 Grand for DJing a wedding? Now I know you're bullshitting.


You guys are acting like assholes... Now the whole hole drilling thing was dodgy, but there's no reason the NEW truss is not capable of operating with my needs. Now if I was pro touring with moving heads across a 100 ft of stage then I would consider global truss or the other bigger brands. But I'm not and this isn't a perfect world and I don't have a large income. Hey, I have a Mackie amp that weights 30+ lbs. Are you gonna tell me that I shouldn't use it because it isn't a crown? Oh and it doesn't have dsp. That's a huge problem. Please if you wanted me to listen you all shouldn't be so cynical.
And you're acting like an ignorant cunt and refusing to listen to anything said to you by people who actually know what they are doing. We've given you advice beyond what you originally asked for and you argue that advice even though it's going to save your ass. The fact that you think Global Truss is good quality touring stuff is proof you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. It serves it's purpose for most DJ applications which is why it's so widely accepted and used by DJs because most DJs don't use fixtures that weigh 60 pounds each.

This is stuff you work into over time if you can't afford the investment right off, but you work into it by slowly building your rig and investing money from gigs back into your gear. One thing I always tell people here is that quality is more important than quantity. Invest in good quality gear over time rather than wasting the money on temporary junk that will be replaced so that you can add on to your rig rather than have to try and resell pieces of it when you upgrade. This will save you a lot of time and money in the long run and make you look better and more appealing to clients.

This isn't about being cynical, it's about teaching from experience. My first DJ rig was a mess: lots of ADJ and Gemini gear. I figured, I get to play with the good stuff at work, so why bother investing all that money into stuff for DJing since I was doing it mainly for fun and the extra income. I learned very quickly what a mistake that was and that I should have invested the money differently.

We're trying to not only save your ass from a possible disaster, but to educate you on what you're doing wrong and why it's wrong. It only comes off as an attack because of you're blatant refusal to heed advice that you should be taking now and not later when you feel it will be more beneficial to yourself. The truss you're using is expo truss or light load. It's designed for hanging a lightweight drop or screen with weight evenly distributed across it. Not 20 pound fixtures with bolts drilled through.

Now, you're new to the forum so obviously we all got off on the wrong foot. I think it would benefit us all to start over and I think it would be very beneficial for you to consider everything that has been said here in that we're trying to help you and that we think in the long term, not the short, because of exactly this reason; people like yourself coming to this forum with a short term goal and not having the needed education to use or make decisions about the gear they use or are looking to use. That is the only reason I am on this forum: to further educate people. If you look at the posts I've made in this section, especially the guide I typed up in the stickies, it's pretty easy to see that is my focus and goal. I'm not here to be mean to people, but when people do outlandish and stupid things, it needs to be addressed immediately because we have way too many people doing stupid things while putting themselves and others at risk.

If you want our advice, you had best be prepared to hear all of it because we're attempting to make you a better, more professional option for clients. It's what we do here because we are the professionals of this industry ourselves and we are willing to share our information with others to help groom them. Now does that mean we want you to buy 8 Mac 2Ks, a power distro, and a lighting console? Not at all. Sure, that would be a nice rig, but most people can't afford the investment. But we do want you to buy gear that is known for it's longevity and reliability while being able to put on a great looking show, so that is what we recommend. And as I said, no one expects you to invest in 10 fixtures at one time. You'll find most of us here add 1 or 2 at a time over time when the money can be invested.

That all being said, we're more than willing to help you, but if you're going to be bitter and sarcastic, you may as well not waste our time and yours with anymore posts. Be open to advice by people who have experience and already made the mistakes you're walking into. If you have ideas about things and want clarity on them, post them in detail with as much information as possible so we can better help you.

Anyway, it's 5:30am and I have a show to do today, so I'm going back to bed.

[BillESC]

Some of know about what we speak of. This was my largest touring system in the 70's and 80's. 120,000 watts of stage lighting.

http://i45.tinypic.com/311xs3l.jpg

[Houdini823]

Everyone has modified some equipment whether its a DJ equipment, car, or whatever before against OEM reccomendations. It was an assumed risk and you did it. If the OP feels that his system is safe enough for his use then that's the risk he is prepared to take. Nothing is 100% safe.

I personally don't use safety cables. I use o-clamps with lock nuts and lock washers on the connecting side. If that were to fail then yes the light will fall but so will my truss if one of my tripod legs were to fail too. So yes I know there is a risk and I am comfortable with that risk. That's why there is insurance. Safety cables or not you're still liable.

[Capt. Kirk]

I feel like even the simple 10 foot truss systems from companies like Chauvet or American DJ that are made to support around the 200 pound mark would even be a better option (look wise) and maybe even stability wise since it uses 1.5 inch tubing for the trussing. I have found (sadly) that the truss is not the issue for me its the crappy stands that came with the truss or even the standard ones. They give and bend out of shape so easily its ridiculous. I have two of my stands going out now because of use and having them at their weight limits which is completely undefined, also not a good thing.

I am wondering if just adding another pipe inside the extension pipe that is a snug fit that is welded in at the ends would do a good job of reinforcing the stands, it makes since to me since it would be like doubling the thickness but I could be wrong on that. So what do you all think of a solution like that for anyone with the cheap 10ft truss systems that are around the 300 mark?

[Mystic]

The show I'm doing today has been a great example of what not to do. They have fixtures with no safety cables because we had to strip them from other fixtures, they were hanging fixtures with (no joke) zip ties. They had clamps on vertical truss supporting other loaded truss with no slip stop meaning the whole thing could end up coming crashing down. They are making mistakes left and right and I've refused to touch most of this because of is. However, there is nothing we can do. It's not our rig, we just set it. It makes me sad to see so many cut corners because this is a major accident waiting to happen.

[DJ Higgumz]

Everyone has modified some equipment whether its a DJ equipment, car, or whatever before against OEM reccomendations. It was an assumed risk and you did it. If the OP feels that his system is safe enough for his use then that's the risk he is prepared to take. Nothing is 100% safe.

I personally don't use safety cables. I use o-clamps with lock nuts and lock washers on the connecting side. If that were to fail then yes the light will fall but so will my truss if one of my tripod legs were to fail too. So yes I know there is a risk and I am comfortable with that risk. That's why there is insurance. Safety cables or not you're still liable.

I agree. If the huge 7/16 bolt were to fail I would be extremely worried about the 10/32 holding the legs on the tripods. sure the weight is halved then thirded by the time it gets to each individual leg. But it's still over 20 lbs. I should put safety cables on the tripod then! Haha Jk. It's still a good idea to have them. It's a 2.00 insurance policy.
I am yet to find one that is about 8", all the ones I see are three feet long! Could someone post a link of a shorter one?

As far as my truss, the thing holds my lights along with me doing pull ups on it! Haha. The tubes are very thick, and as there should be there's no sag in the truss. (put my dads 8 ft level to it :) ) I want to find out the load ratings, does anyone know the manufacturer of this truss?

I need to measure the diam of the truss so I can search o clamps. If anything I'll machine them myself

Also kind of off topic- I just bought some gaffers tape, great stuff!

[DJ Higgumz]

Adj makes them down to 1", so I should be good there, 2.00 each. Though I wish they were aluminum, they are abs. At least it avoids scratching up the truss.

[windspeed36]

I just bought some gaffers tape, great stuff!
Oh God, you and gaff ain't going to end well

[DJ Higgumz]

Y would that be? If your referring to some joke about using it to hang lights, seriously keep it to yourself. That may have been valid with duck tape but I'm using it to tidy up cords on the ground.

[Mystic]

Everyone has modified some equipment whether its a DJ equipment, car, or whatever before against OEM reccomendations. It was an assumed risk and you did it. If the OP feels that his system is safe enough for his use then that's the risk he is prepared to take. Nothing is 100% safe.

I personally don't use safety cables. I use o-clamps with lock nuts and lock washers on the connecting side. If that were to fail then yes the light will fall but so will my truss if one of my tripod legs were to fail too. So yes I know there is a risk and I am comfortable with that risk. That's why there is insurance. Safety cables or not you're still liable.

You sir, are completely ignorant. Here is why:

1) OP is uneducated in this situation, so his "feeling" of how safe his system is becomes null. Just because you want to believe something doesn't make it so.
2) Your comparison is so far off it's out of this world. This isn't about changing the colour or installing HID lamps, this would be more akin to taking a saw blade to the frame. If you don't know what you're doing and have the education needed to do it, you're going to fuck it up and put yourself and others in danger.
3) Nothing is 100% safe, but in this industry, you do your damnedest to make it as safe as possible. Cutting corners is an unacceptable way of conducting business. If the risk you take is in your own bedroom with only yourself to hurt, then your stupidity can only effect yourself. When you are doing this for public performance and people are relying on you to have a safety standard so they themselves are not put in harms way, then that is a completely different story. Anyone who believes that doing any less than your best attempt at keeping people safe needs to quit this industry.
4) So you're willing to put people at risk to save $20 on a few safety cables... that's pretty damn pathetic.
5) Your insurance may not be so willing to pay the accident costs if they are aware that you didn't take every precaution to prevent people from being hurt... just ask Bill about that one. One of the first thing your insurance would ask you is what preventive measures you took. And again, if you're willing to pay for insurance (which I doubt you are considering you wouldn't even spend $20 on safety cables) then your unwillingness to take preventive measures to keep people at your events safer with the piss poor excuse that insurance will take care of it all makes you extremely fucking pathetic and you have no business performing outside of your bedroom.

[djnotloc]

Go Mystic! I don't have anything to say that he's not. The couple podunk theaters i work at back home always have pretty shady stuff going on upon my return but never have they been as ignorant as some situations brought up here thank god. Oh yeah, Mystic....+rep

[LiteTrix]

I agree. If the huge 7/16 bolt were to fail I would be extremely worried about the 10/32 holding the legs on the tripods. sure the weight is halved then thirded by the time it gets to each individual leg. But it's still over 20 lbs. I should put safety cables on the tripod then! Haha Jk. It's still a good idea to have them. It's a 2.00 insurance policy.
I am yet to find one that is about 8", all the ones I see are three feet long! Could someone post a link of a shorter one?

As far as my truss, the thing holds my lights along with me doing pull ups on it! Haha. The tubes are very thick, and as there should be there's no sag in the truss. (put my dads 8 ft level to it :) ) I want to find out the load ratings, does anyone know the manufacturer of this truss?

I need to measure the diam of the truss so I can search o clamps. If anything I'll machine them myself

Also kind of off topic- I just bought some gaffers tape, great stuff!

Your only agreeing with because He's basically justifying what your doing wrong.


Y would that be? If your referring to some joke about using it to hang lights, seriously keep it to yourself. That may have been valid with duck tape but I'm using it to tidy up cords on the ground.

Pretty much. Why else would he make a wise guy comment like that? Since you say "it might have been valid with duck tape" does that mean you have used duck tape to hang lights before?


I also +repped Mystic for everything he's posted in this thread. It's really a shame that OP is taking his advice with a grain of salt.

[sss18734]

This thread (and Mystic) just encouraged me to spend a whopping $30 on a 12-pack of safety cables for my Power Spot 250's, which I thought were already extremely secure with global truss and 2 clamps each. :)

Just do it.

[DJ Higgumz]

No, I agreed as far as there should be more concern in the tripods, a whole rig is far more dangerous than one light. And with the whole duct tape thing, no. That is just stupid. I said that because his comment referred to ghetto rigging. You guys need to lighten up. We all came here to learn, and to harass another user though he has a thick skull just is crazy. I didn't sign up to start web fights, but to help and be helped. Please understand the fact I know the importance of clamps and cables. However the truss is operating well. Call it ignorance if you will, but it's gonna work for this weekend then I'm replacing it. It's hard to take your knowledge on the truss against mine since I've seen it in person and have handled it, and I understand it can handle my moderate load. If you were to say you've had it before and say it's crap, that's a different story. Because theories over familiarity don't always win. Man, what an ugly thread!

[DYM]

I'm really trying to restrain from posting again but here it goes.

Mystic is getting some rep, but I need to spread some first so you'll get it some how.

DJ HIGGUMZ.... If you are so concerned about the tri-pods go pickup a pair of medium duty Global Truss crank stands. Done.

sss18734 - plus rep for you because you listen to people on here, good job :tup:

[DJ Higgumz]

It's not that I don't listen, if I was ignorant I would just ignore what you say and not even comment back. I take it into account in my decisions, wether you believe it or not.

[Subprime]

Something you can do right now is hang the truss the other way up (apex up). Load ratings on triangular truss tend to be much higher apex up than apex down.

[DJStevieRay]

This thread has inspired me to throw away my safety cables, drill a bunch of random holes in my truss throw away my O Clamps, and just use drywall screws and duck tape to keep everything together.....

I mean really if GT didn't want holes in their truss, they would have prevented from going to Lowes and buying a drill.

Don't worry guys, my friends uncle is a bridge engineer, so I know what I am doing, and just so you do not worry. I will be using 50lb. sandbags on top of each moving head, so they don't go anywhere.

[DJ M&M]

^^^^^epic^^^^^^

I lol'd so hard

[DJ Higgumz]

Something you can do right now is hang the truss the other way up (apex up). Load ratings on triangular truss tend to be much higher apex up than apex down.

I heard that too. But I thought that referred to hanging the lights on top of the truss, being it's the same as having two ibeam trusses. Where as if you hang it off the bottom, it is attached to only one side of the truss.

The trussing I was gonna buy was already sold so yea I'll be getting some global truss. Where do I mount my safety cables, do I unscrew the yoke thumbscrew and put it around that? Or do I find a good point on the body to hang it. I imagine martin put threaded holes for eyebolts, I'll check in a sec

[DJ Higgumz]

Strangely enough they don't, what do I do? And the truss I'm going to buy is box, so the apex dilemma won't apply.

[DJStevieRay]

There is usually a loop built into the yokes, or I know my MiniMacs have two holes next too each other where you run the cable in one, and out the other.

[DJ Higgumz]

No it doesn't. Would it be a bad idea to take the top panel off, and drill a hole and put a eye bolt through it? Wouldn't it be safer if I bypassed the yoke in case that should fail? Man, I just love drilling holes don't I! ;)

[DJStevieRay]

Are you speaking about moving yokes, or mirror fixtures?? If you are talking about scanners, you just wrap the bracket a few times if there is nothing else to connect to.

Picture below with the 812's

[DJStevieRay]

Are you speaking about moving yokes, or mirror fixtures?? If you are talking about scanners, you just wrap the bracket a few times if there is nothing else to connect to.
http://wkmusic.be/images/Martin-218.jpg

[Subprime]

I heard that too. But I thought that referred to hanging the lights on top of the truss, being it's the same as having two ibeam trusses. Where as if you hang it off the bottom, it is attached to only one side of the truss.

The trussing I was gonna buy was already sold so yea I'll be getting some global truss. Where do I mount my safety cables, do I unscrew the yoke thumbscrew and put it around that? Or do I find a good point on the body to hang it. I imagine martin put threaded holes for eyebolts, I'll check in a sec

It refers to the overall orientation of the truss, i.e put it the other way up to in your photo. The shape of the truss means it is stronger one way than the other. You then want to try and have roughly even loads on each pipe at the bottom.

[Capt. Kirk]

DON'T drill holes in the case of lighting. They are quite literally just for show and for protection from dents and bumping into things. If the yoke failed and the cable is put straight into the case it will bend it to hell and maybe tear a part of the case off. The yoke is designed to carry all of the weight of the light so it is the strongest part of the light. If the yoke fails you never should have bought the light.

[DJ Higgumz]

DON'T drill holes in the case of lighting. They are quite literally just for show and for protection from dents and bumping into things. If the yoke failed and the cable is put straight into the case it will bend it to hell and maybe tear a part of the case off. The yoke is designed to carry all of the weight of the light so it is the strongest part of the light. If the yoke fails you never should have bought the light.

Which is why I asked!

I've seen lights that have threaded hole for o rings, specifically chauvet minspot.

Steve, it is the scanner, an 812. So basically I wrap it around the light yoke and the truss pipe? Sounds kind of hokey. What if I did like I said, put it around the thumb screw shaft, inside of the yoke, provided I use the right hardware? That should be well structured correct?

[Houdini823]

You sir, are completely ignorant. Here is why:

1) OP is uneducated in this situation, so his "feeling" of how safe his system is becomes null. Just because you want to believe something doesn't make it so.
2) Your comparison is so far off it's out of this world. This isn't about changing tcolorour or installing HID lamps, this would be more akin to taking a saw blade to the frame. If you don't know what you're doing and have the education needed to do it, you're going to fuck it up and put yourself and others in danger.
3) Nothing is 100% safe, but in this industry, you do your damnedest to make it as safe as possible. Cutting corners is an unacceptable way of conducting business. If the risk you take is in your own bedroom with only yourself to hurt, then your stupidity can only effect yourself. When you are doing this for public performance and people are relying on you to have a safety standard so they themselves are not put in harms way, then that is a completely different story. Anyone who believes that doing any less than your best attempt at keeping people safe needs to quit this industry.
4) So you're willing to put people at risk to save $20 on a few safety cables... that's pretty damn pathetic.
5) Your insurance may not be so willing to pay the accident costs if they are aware that you didn't take every precaution to prevent people from being hurt... just ask Bill about that one. One of the first thing your insurance would ask you is what preventive measures you took. And again, if you're willing to pay for insurance (which I doubt you are considering you wouldn't even spend $20 on safety cables) then your unwillingness to take preventive measures to keep people at your events safer with the piss poor excuse that insurance will take care of it all makes you extremely fucking pathetic and you have no business performing outside of your bedroom.

Wow.............First off I am a mechanical engineemodify modifiy and build equipment for a living. I push and bypass recommendationsndations in order to achieve the end goal at hand. So those specs that you rely on when you buy a product.... I could be the guy providing those guidelines. Oh and about 150 people work with those modifications daily. Their safety is a non negotiable.

I was simply trying to stating that there are people who know what they are doing when it comes to modifications. If the OP understands the dynamics of his system then so what if he drills a few extra holes. The same way a C clamp can fail so can your tripod since they work under the same principle. I don't see people using sand bags to stabilize them.

Do you perform stress analysis on your systems after every use? I doubt it. What is the life expectancy of your trussing? Fatigue will set it at some point and stress fractures happen. Do you change your pins or cables after every use? They are a safety item so they have to be replaced and tested on a set frequency. Are your cables load rated using ANSI standards? Better yet what is the proper way to install a safety cable? Just because you have it doesn't mean its applied correctly. So before you try to come after me you should ask yourself if you're doing the above at a minimum since your engineer, lawyer, OSHA, and inspector all in one. Either your liable or you ain't.

I know there was a reason why I didn't want to come back to this site. Its one thing for discussion but damn

[Coronaoperator]

Everything we do in this industry exposes us to a certain amount of risk and liability. Although this thread may have gotton a bit heated at times it is still a good disscusion for us and newcommers to read about "best practices" in the industry to minimise exposure to risk. If the OP is comfortable with the risk he is taking on then so be it, after all many bridges are built with bolts and nuts. I would be much more comfortable with bolts and nuts inspected before each show than c-clamps with dodgy safety cable installation. Safety cables are just another level of insurance should something go amiss.

[DJ Higgumz]

I personally don't believe in clamps, because there is more room for error, bolts may take a half of a second longer to put on, and really a lot more can go wrong between the abs and the metal in the clamps. Someone posted earlier in the thread that I had to be 100% sure the bolts weren't defected, well what about the damn clamps! Much more can let go there than a casted bolt! "well it's designed for the industry" well bolts are designed to hold bridges together. Clamps are really just a bolt with a different head on it to be quick on applying to truss. People on this forum need to be more rational. Just because they were told along the line the correct way, doesn't mean there aren't other ways to achieve the same goal. There's a risk in everything, and that's what makes life interesting, and why I'm in it for the ride. I dont have finances to do things the optimum way. Hell, I'm proud of my self that I can afford the music I buy. I was on the bfm forum a while, read every thread, and the past week I moved over here. I'll tell you one thing I'm gonna go back and stay there because the people there are good hearted and don't attack or flame. If you couldn't tell already, I'm pissed. I tried to listen and I thought we were making progress, but then some smart ass comes in and makes a joke, and then the anger seeps in. Say what you will but you arent a potential client and your opinion of me isnt going to make or break my decisions. As cartman would say "screw you guys, I'm going home"

To the handful of good eggs on the forums, I will still get notifications in my email of messages, so if you want to discuss whatever send me a pm. But I am no longer participating in the threads.

Ps: to the managers of the forum, there needs to be more moderating and policing.

[Mystic]

The trussing I was gonna buy was already sold so yea I'll be getting some global truss. Where do I mount my safety cables, do I unscrew the yoke thumbscrew and put it around that? Or do I find a good point on the body to hang it. I imagine martin put threaded holes for eyebolts, I'll check in a sec
Safety cables go around either the bracket on fixtures or one of the handles on a yoke. They are designed in such a way that they can handle a very large fall load without snapping. No need to eyebolts.

[Mystic]

Wow.............First off I am a mechanical engineemodify modifiy and build equipment for a living. I push and bypass recommendationsndations in order to achieve the end goal at hand. So those specs that you rely on when you buy a product.... I could be the guy providing those guidelines. Oh and about 150 people work with those modifications daily. Their safety is a non negotiable.

It's quite obvious OP doesn't know what he is talking about so you were ignorantly backing him up. In fact, very few people who even do this for a living have the kind of knowledge it would take to make modifications to this kind of equipment safely, and much like your engineering job, there is absolutely no room for error when it comes to the safety of others.


I know there was a reason why I didn't want to come back to this site. Its one thing for discussion but damn
Then don't come back. None of us will be heart broken.

[Mystic]

I personally don't believe in clamps, because there is more room for error, bolts may take a half of a second longer to put on, and really a lot more can go wrong between the abs and the metal in the clamps. Someone posted earlier in the thread that I had to be 100% sure the bolts weren't defected, well what about the damn clamps! Much more can let go there than a casted bolt! "well it's designed for the industry" well bolts are designed to hold bridges together. Clamps are really just a bolt with a different head on it to be quick on applying to truss. People on this forum need to be more rational. Just because they were told along the line the correct way, doesn't mean there aren't other ways to achieve the same goal. There's a risk in everything, and that's what makes life interesting, and why I'm in it for the ride. I dont have finances to do things the optimum way. Hell, I'm proud of my self that I can afford the music I buy. I was on the bfm forum a while, read every thread, and the past week I moved over here. I'll tell you one thing I'm gonna go back and stay there because the people there are good hearted and don't attack or flame. If you couldn't tell already, I'm pissed. I tried to listen and I thought we were making progress, but then some smart ass comes in and makes a joke, and then the anger seeps in. Say what you will but you arent a potential client and your opinion of me isnt going to make or break my decisions. As cartman would say "screw you guys, I'm going home"

To the handful of good eggs on the forums, I will still get notifications in my email of messages, so if you want to discuss whatever send me a pm. But I am no longer participating in the threads.

Ps: to the managers of the forum, there needs to be more moderating and policing.

Clamps are actually a lot more safe to use for lighting than simply bolting a fixture on. They are designed for the job and I've NEVER had a clamp fail while in use where as I've had bolts sheer off quite a few times. In fact, for larger rigs, I refuse to use bolt truss in favour of pin connections simply because of this reason.

Have fun on BFM forum. I'm done helping you as of this post here and in PM. Your attitude is no better than some of the others here who have been trying to help you and your arrogance of "I'm going to do whatever I want regardless of what I've been told" stinks of arrogance so I'm not going to waste anymore time on you. *shrugs*

[windspeed36]

I don't see people using sand bags to stabilize them.
You clearly haven't done many live/mobile events. I always use heavy duty bags filled with metal granules to make sure that tripods don't move around because all it takes is one guy to trip over something and the whole Tbar or speaker stand comes tumbling down on someone.

[Houdini823]

The show I'm doing today has been a great example of what not to do. They have fixtures with no safety cables because we had to strip them from other fixtures, they were hanging fixtures with (no joke) zip ties. They had clamps on vertical truss supporting other loaded truss with no slip stop meaning the whole thing could end up coming crashing down. They are making mistakes left and right and I've refused to touch most of this because of is. However, there is nothing we can do. It's not our rig, we just set it. It makes me sad to see so many cut corners because this is a major accident waiting to happen.

So let me get this correct. You're on a job and you notice many corners being cut that by your own words "is a major accident waiting to happen." But stands by and does nothin because "it's not your rig". Wow.... you're the professional one and I am ignorant. I'm educated enough to know that you're just at fault since you didn't do anything after the discovery.



You clearly haven't done many live/mobile events. I always use heavy duty bags filled with metal granules to make sure that tripods don't move around because all it takes is one guy to trip over something and the whole Tbar or speaker stand comes tumbling down on someone.

Last time I checked the "Post pics of your setup" Thread I have yet to see a sandbag on a tripod. Just becuase you do it doesn't mean its a standard which should be since its just like a safety cable if you follow everything in this thread. As always different opinions becomes a target of ridicule. A community will always have difference of opinion which generates conversation. That conversation leads to valuable learnings for everyone because somewhere in the middle of all the POVs is a learning. But personal attacks are not called for.

I was called out for being ignorant by the same person who is willing to stand by and allow a major accident to happen by their own admission. I don't see a firestorm response to that statement.

[Djsmylez]

Can't we all just get along?

[Mystic]

So let me get this correct. You're on a job and you notice many corners being cut that by your own words "is a major accident waiting to happen." But stands by and does nothin because "it's not your rig". Wow.... you're the professional one and I am ignorant. I'm educated enough to know that you're just at fault since you didn't do anything after the discovery.
You're obviously not educated enough to have any idea how our industry works. I don't call the shots with this sort of situation because it's not my production. Even my production manager wasn't too happy with it but our hands are tied because it wasn't our event. They are the ones liable for accidents, not us. None of us were happy with them cutting corners and we let them know at every turn that we were displeased and most of us refused to even touch the gear we deemed unsafe.


I was called out for being ignorant by the same person who is willing to stand by and allow a major accident to happen by their own admission. I don't see a firestorm response to that statement.
You were, and you're still as ignorant as they come. You may be some engineer somewhere, probably entry level judging by your previous post, but book smarts don't equate to street smarts.

Oh, and I thought you were leaving?

[Capt. Kirk]

You're obviously not educated enough to have any idea how our industry works. I don't call the shots with this sort of situation because it's not my production. Even my production manager wasn't too happy with it but our hands are tied because it wasn't our event. They are the ones liable for accidents, not us. None of us were happy with them cutting corners and we let them know at every turn that we were displeased and most of us refused to even touch the gear we deemed unsafe.


You were, and you're still as ignorant as they come. You may be some engineer somewhere, probably entry level judging by your previous post, but book smarts don't equate to street smarts.

Oh, and I thought you were leaving?

No Higgumz was leaving and has by the looks of things.

[Mystic]

Ahh, he was just bitching about coming back to this site because people won't agree with him when he's wrong. Gotcha.

[Capt. Kirk]

Mystic,

You wouldn't happen to know any rental places in Ohio that would rent out haze machines would you?

[Mystic]

Depending on where you live, there are a bunch of options. Too many to list without knowing what area. Can PM if you don't want to post here.

[BillESC]

Just do a google search for theatrical production Ohio.