Why you should think about getting hard (ware)

[thehadgi]

EDIT: I'll start off by saying; there are times some tools are better than others, and tools that are better for some people than other tools. No one can tell you an outboard synth will work better for your track and than a soft synth; no one can tell you which will be better for your workflow; no one can tell you which one will enhance your creativity better. You won't know until you try both. Or you may be perfectly fine with what you have. This post is in the interest of provoking some thought or providing insight into what could make a person think about spending a bunch more money on something that seems less powerful, portable, or flexible.

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It's been talked about before, and it still rings true: limitations can be good. The fact you can link 5 ADSR envelopes to 90 Pulse-width-modulating filters doesn't do you too much good if you don't get anything written. Now if you can and you're happy, great! With hardware, you have the physical knobs right in front of you, and you can have the sound playing and get hands on very directly with synthesis and understand what's going on quickly. It's intuitive (unless you're dealing with one of the more difficult interfaces to get acquainted with; enter waldorf blofeld and virus' complex routing capabilities), and can be extremely fun. When I had my voyager (had to sell it months ago :blank:), synthesis and sound design was so much more interesting and addictive with a piece of hardware in front of me. Maybe that isn't always the case for producers, but give it a try if you haven't already at a guitar center or music shop; humans like to touch things, and a good synth is up there on the list.

Here are some points if you're on the fence about getting hard:

1. Getting your head around sound synthesis: It can be easier to get the sounds you want, or didn't even know you wanted, with a bunch of knobs in front of you. It's a more direct way of learning/creating, since it's just your hands and the interface. The quickness with which you can change parameters with two hands (depending on the interface) in real time on an outboard piece of gear can help you learn a lot. Studies show that getting physically involved in a learning process can improve knowledge gaining and retention.
2. Sound quality: Fabled analogue warmth (or not, depending on the synth). Some people want it, others don't; some argue they tell you analogue or soft synth in a mix of 100 tracks, others say it doesn't matter. When dealing with voltage controlled oscillators (VCO's) in analogue especially, there's almost always some movement to the sound that adds sonic depth, or warmness. Soft synths have become great at emulating this (enter: uh-e diva); up to you if you can hear or want to hear a difference.
3. Coolness factor: You get to join the cool hardware club. And honestly, just having any synth, ranging from korg poly 800 to a dsi mopho to a sc-pro one, just makes you feel like you own a studio, and make you want to write music every time you see it. Plus, when you're famous and send in a photograph of your 'setup', you gotta have something other than your computer to show up ;)
4. Creativity: All of a sudden you can't link a million different parameters all to each other. :eek: Maybe this does limit your creativity. Or maybe, it can enhance your knowledge of synthesis through constraint. Sometimes I can miss a great sound just because I've never fully explored a parameter I figured I already knew; but by being limited with a set routing schema, maybe I don't have the ability to link an LFO to something I usually do. That might make me want to experiment with oscillator syncing or high resonance values to see if that'll get what I'm after. And in the meantime, I'm likely to discover something cool I can use.
5. Value: You can be pretty sure the value won't depreciate if you need to sell. The MiniMoog Model D isn't going down in value anytime soon (much to my despair). Vintage synths especially are most likely only going to get more expensive, as anyone in the market for a juno-106 can tell you over the past 2-3 years. Plus there are some great new developments in outboard synth gear, whether it be VCO's, DCO's, or a combination by guys like Moog, Dave Smith Instruments, Access, and more.
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In all, you don't 'need' to try, or buy, anything just because you hear people voice their preference for one or the other. This is true for both sides; analogue and digital, in addition to most things in life. The best tools for the job tend to be the ones you already have, especially when starting out. Somewhere along the way, maybe you want to try something new to see what happens, or sometimes you know you need something different to get what you're looking for.

In the end, you can make a great track with just about anything that will make noise. No hard synth, soft synth, DAW, computer, speaker, interface, microphone, cable, guitar brand, or even drug will automatically make you a better musician or producer. Hours of practice, dedication, and drive to become better will always be what makes someone great; the rest just assists when the right time comes.

[spirez]

Is that not the point of midi controllers?

I definitely like some hardware but I don't think there's too much these days that you can't replicate ith. Good controller, at least in terms of workflow

[PONTUS.2]

i dont mind software....

midi controllers definitely help with adjusting the knobs etc of soft synths but you still have to assign it etc. might not have enough knobs to match all of the synths shits.

with hardware, all the stuff you have to access to for adjusting is built into it and ready to go.

definitely agree with that coolness factor. even with that little korg monotron i feel legit muhaha =D. they do appear to have a certain "character to them" that soft synths can definitely recreate but with hardware it just automatically sounds like that already. maybe im wrong though.

[login]

I first started messing with reaper a couple of years ago, I didn't find my way around anything. Reading stuff at gearslutz convinced me of getting hardware was the answer. I researched a lot of synths and choosed to pick an elektron machinedrum. At the same time I picked up Ableton.

The machinedrum was nice, but I couldn't get around recording each channel individualy, getting it in time, etc. It was a PITA. At the same time I was discovering drum racks in Live and found using the machinedrum a bit redundant.

What I couldn't get my head around was programming soft synths, I tried some freebies first (synth1) and ones bundled with interface and midi controller (v-station and bass stattion). I thought getting better ones would help, I got ACE couldn't programmed. I got DIVA and with so many patches I couldn't put my slef to learning to program it, knobs on my controller (nocturn kb) weren't enough. I realized I should try a VA hardware synth.

I looked for an exchange, not a lot of options in Mexico, I came across a microwave xt and later a Nord lead 3. After trying the second one I was convinced it is one must enjoyable synths to play around, I picked it up. Now I am finally learning to program patches and doing whole songs with it. It is also nice not to having to turn on the PC to play around and program, and taking it out to play with at my friends studio is quite convinient.

So in my experience before getting hardware it's quite important to play around software a lot and really find what you NEED, what kind of sound, interface and experience. Getting hardware for the sake of it can be frustrating and bring culpability issues because of the money invested in.

[thehadgi]

Yeah +1 for understanding software first. Wasting money on soft synths you don't end up using is a better option than investing 3 grand in a mono synth that you realize you have no use for.

Midi controllers can work, I've tried but honestly it just isn't the same, no matter how much you customize the mapping. It's a good option tho for some soft synths that are really good

[markos]

I totally agree with this. I think having at least one synth to turn to each time you sit down to write a track allows more creativity to flow through you music and of course gives that human element. Plus, it's a good way to seperate yourself from the mouse and screen way of making music these days. Creativity always evolves for me when i'm in a different element. If you are constantly recalling the same pre sets, or templates and spending hours tweaking a gazzillion knobs on the same soft synths month after month it gets quite boring and robotic.

You need something to take your mindset away from computer arranging and into the open world of making music. When I first started, I went the midi route and although its easy and intuative, i'm realizing that I don't have the hands on control or feel that I'd get from a hardware synth. When using a hardware synth at my local shop, I can just feel the music passing through me more. Sure you can spend tones of time, midi mapping everything to a controller, but even then you are limited to the amount of controls, and there are far to many parameters on software synths to map too. Its overwhelming.

I'm at the point in my music productions where I've decided to take a break to allow my creativity to build back up. When i do get back into it i'm looking at the moog minitaur specifically for all my bass needs, a maschine for drums, and a nice interface such as the motu 828 mkIII with mic pre's. From there, I can add on synths as needed :)

[drop1]

I've used hard and soft and honestly i'm just fine with a decent controller mapped to frequently used parameters that are "played". Toggling between menus is the whole reason I stopped using hardware. Some synths can get way too fiddley for my taste. The thing I do miss however is smooth analogue style knobs for filter sweeps but I find that recording the automation with controller knobs and then going back and touching up the automation gives me more accurate results.

[markos]

it really depends on who you are. Some peoples minds think in a more practical way, while others minds think in a more creative way. Also, your production style will say a lot when it comes down to making music. For me, I make music in the same way that I DJ. I like to stand up, bounce to my beats...ride the faders etc. So having gear that takes me away from the mouse and keyboard is essential.

[disparate]

I definitely appreciate having a bit of hardware, it can make things much more fun.

It can also be a world of pain in its own ways... MIDI, timing/sync issues, menus, having to save patches seperately from the DAW project, etc. I guess it balances out though.

I like the idea of MIDI controllers controlling software but mapping always seems to be a pain, maybe I've just not sat down to figure it out for long enough though...

[drop1]

I definitely appreciate having a bit of hardware, it can make things much more fun.

It can also be a world of pain in its own ways... MIDI, timing/sync issues, menus, having to save patches seperately from the DAW project, etc. I guess it balances out though.

I like the idea of MIDI controllers controlling software but mapping always seems to be a pain, maybe I've just not sat down to figure it out for long enough though...
I rarely find the need to map more than 3 or 4 functions on a softsynth. Sure every patch is different but in reality only a few parameters are worth manipulating in real time.

[mostapha]

It's not about manipulating them in real time to me…it's about it being a lot easier to experiment…to start with a basic idea and have some idea how to get there but not know all the details.

The last time I sat down with a hardware synth, it was a nord stage 2, not a very powerful synth by today's standards. I was just playing around and heard something cool...and 5 minutes later, I was most of the way towards an arpeggiated thing that would sound great in a trance song, complete with knowing what to modulate with daw automation (though not what CC it was assigned to) for a few different interesting effects.

Something like that happens every time I play with a hardware synth, and it's never happened with a soft synth.

[Celestial]

With soft synths, you have one mouse, and you have to click individual settings one at a time, and it's very... difficult to do things quickly? But with hardware, you have the knobs right in front of you, and you can have the sound playing and get hands on very directly with synthesis and understand what's going on.

again as others said - that's what midi's are for, I don't know what daw you're on so I can't comment on your workflow but for me rewiring reason into ableton is the ultimate god of possibilities and I'm far from uncomfortable as far as workflow is concerned.

and on a side note - having real lfo's and vco's won't help you understand things better, research and reading and trial and error however will help.

[disparate]

It's not about manipulating them in real time to me…it's about it being a lot easier to experiment…to start with a basic idea and have some idea how to get there but not know all the details.



Yeah that's it - I understand that when I'm bouncing/"performing" a synth track I might only need a few things like filter cutoff, release, filt env, decay, etc. but I find it's nice to be able to turn some knobs at the sound design/messing about stage as well, when there's a lot more controls to tweak.

[Celestial]

Yeah that's it - I understand that when I'm bouncing/"performing" a synth track I might only need a few things like filter cutoff, release, filt env, decay, etc. but I find it's nice to be able to turn some knobs at the sound design/messing about stage as well, when there's a lot more controls to tweak.

right, so you get a midi to do that for you

[mostapha]

Show me one that has enough controls for Dune, and I'll buy it.

[thehadgi]

Celestial you ever spend time with a hard synth? It's very different than just midi control

[login]

Yes just get a midi controller

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_universal_front.png?v=16q7pofpua9p68

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_polyvorne.png?v=17bkyw1kl0ym2g

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_ace_detail_21.png?v=1bu8ko4d6ekkd82

http://www.synth-project.de/index.html

[thehadgi]

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_image/product/3030-alesis-a6-andromeda-large.jpg

A distinctive, futuristic front panel features 72 knobs and 114 buttons (the majority are single function), optimally arranged for rapid-fire tweaking and in-depth experimentation.

The pointisn't that you can't do midi mapping, but actual hardware is quite a bit different than just midi mapping


Got my eye on this one. Also a moog voyager, dsi prophet 08 and evolver, and se-1x :zany:

[AbstractQuality]

Got my eye on this one. Also a moog voyager, dsi prophet 08 and evolver, and se-1x :zany:

Better start saving up! :D

I used to have a desktop Evolver. You can really get some crazy shit going on with the 4 16 step sequencers and all the delays, wave sequencing, feedback, etc. Really a unique synth. Sadly I sold it because 1) the matrix programming bothered me and 2) needed funds for my S4 heh.

Really wanting to get into synth hardware again, I'm looking into that upcoming SE Boomstar.

http://cdn.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/studio-electronics-boomstar-synthesizer-640x546.jpg

Such a wicked feature set for the price ($799), everything is one knob per function and has patch points. Hopefully its real though, no sign of demos or even real photos yet...

[mostapha]

re: login's post.

yeah…there are some really awesome MIDI controllers out there. The problem is that they're insanely expensive. You could get a used VA for the price of them. You still need an audio interface capable of running them, but…whatever.

re: AbstractQuality's post.

That looks like fun. I'll have to see if I can check one out, but I'm thinking my first will be a Moog Taurus, shortly followed by some older VA like a Virus Classic/C or a Nord Rack 2……depending mostly on what I can find whenever I can drop the cash.

[login]

For interface nothing defeats Nord Lead 3

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sEmxDZgk940/Tjq3kkqGZVI/AAAAAAACy58/hkvgdwjhXqM/s1600/6008229409_936fee50f0_b.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rScBRKlTdoE/TL-BDC-Xa5I/AAAAAAABpDI/3NUWpMuL1Lw/s1600/!B6!1mjQB2k~%24(KGrHqMOKiEEyVLYHZ)uBMv1NRmPFg~~_3. JPG

The led rings make pretty easy to see what each patch does, you dont have to guess or tweak the knob to know which is its setting, and if you modulate any parameter with aftertouch, wheel or pedal you can see in real time how the parameter is changing. You can also mute any component so you can isolate any element in a sound.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJHR3r8OtmQ

[login]

re: login's post.

yeah…there are some really awesome MIDI controllers out there. The problem is that they're insanely expensive. You could get a used VA for the price of them. You still need an audio interface capable of running them, but…whatever.

re: AbstractQuality's post.

That looks like fun. I'll have to see if I can check one out, but I'm thinking my first will be a Moog Taurus, shortly followed by some older VA like a Virus Classic/C or a Nord Rack 2……depending mostly on what I can find whenever I can drop the cash.

I was being kind of sarcastic about getting a good midi controller (those arent even for sale). Livid instruments for example is going soon to sell modular controllers, which can be nice. Also livid and other company named Hale micro sell kits for making your own. I have considered it a lot but once you go for 64 controls and a keybed you are up to 700-800 Bucks.

I think really a good option will be something like the akai synth station 49 with an iPad, (with midi outs), using touch osc, lemur or some other app to control softsynth, even something like Vcontrol that puts the plug in in the screen.

[mostapha]

I think I'd get the rack version…mostly because I have access to a really nice e-piano with fully weighted keys that will put out MIDI (for when I actually learn to play piano). But, yeah…it's tempting. It's really just a matter of price at this point.

I'd love to try a Nord Wave at some point too. They just make a lot of awesome stuff. I need a better job.

[thehadgi]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/21306294.jpg

Just droppin this in here

[Hygro]

If I could have any synth it would be the Roland Jupiter 8.

[Divercity]

The reason why I love hardware is simple:


1. These days the relationship with the instrument is out the window. Everybody is behind their computer programming and intending on getting certain sounds from their softsynths. However with hardware you really can have mistakes that turn into beautiful things. Thats the reason why I love modular gear. It is hands-on and you cannot save anything you create. Its a relationship between you and the instrument.

2. Software is great but it will never ever replace the sound of a hardware synth 100% of the time. How the molecules behave and the wave forms will always be different.

3. Fuck the powerbill.

[Divercity]

For interface nothing defeats Nord Lead 3


Except a nord rack 1 expanded to 12 voices! Nothing beats the dirty/gritty sound that the originals have. :zany:

[akm]

Great topic! A couple of years ago I wanted to get that "hands on" feel, and invested in a relatively cheap synth (a Roland Sh-201). Despite it being a somewhat low-end VA synth, it still has a surprising amount of warmth to it. The knobs make improvising and coming up with ideas a lot of fun, and I find I come up with better ideas faster by messing around with just it as opposed to my software synths. Also, as it was mentioned already, I can take it elsewhere (without needing the computer) if I want to, and it also doubles as a midi controller, with all the knobs being mappable to anything in my software.

[drumpusher]

Software will never do for me a decent bassline, dithering can never match a pure analouge sine/sawtooth/square wave. Most of you will not have a clue, and anyone that tries to argue this point has no clue about sampled audio. :teef:

[Hygro]

drumpusher, I recently did a bit of work with a guy who samples a ton. There's life in samples that I haven't seen in most software music.

Also, seconded on hardware. I recently got access to a full up piano, and I have to say it's helped me come up with a ton of sounds that I wasn't going to do with my midi keyboard and some plugins. Why? Don't know, probably because I was forced to use the good natural sound I had and not fuss with my mouse and a computer.

[Nonyas]

i just have a small midi,makes things alot more fun

[thehadgi]

I just remembered I made this thing with my voyager back when I had it. Put key-hold on, hooked up the XY(z) pad to the filter cutoff and resonance, hit a key, and spent a couple minutes dragging my finger around.

https://soundcloud.com/alanhadgis/maiden-meditation

Kinda ambient drone. And trippy :freak: In retrospect, kind of crazy what one finger can do

[ilya]

awesome, inexpensive and super inspiring sampler:

http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/korg-electribe-esx-1-355798.jpg

[disparate]

Been thinking on-and-off about getting some sort of Electribe for years.

[mars.shosh1n]

I bought an EMX-1 and ESX-1 at the same time about four years ago. Was a ton of fun, I even did a djf 10-wav competition with the esx-1 (since it was provided samples-only). Ultimately, I ended up giving my ESX-1 to my brother who was in a turbulent punk band whose drummers had come and gone, so he just needed a beat machine. I still use and play with tubes in my EMX-1. Highly recommended for the price, but with the caveat that the limited interface is the challenge.

[thehadgi]

Kind of re-wrote the OP to be more balanced and objective, take a read if interested.

[ariyonafebly]

i love my recorder, and i can record live anywhere... i love moog and tesla,its cool stuff, create warm sound, many more.... i love saxophone, feel like sunset party.. try VST and it doesnt help me with vibe feeling if i want brass, saxophone or flute sound... or it just me who feel like that??? who knows :)