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View Full Version : Looking to add to my system in the near future, suggestions?



akillj
04-07-2012, 07:13 PM
I've been thinking about this for a while and I can't decide on what to do.

I have two RCF Art 312A's and two Yorkville LS720P's (elite series ones).

I sometimes find myself in a dilemma where i'm running my system into just-before-limiting, for my larger events.

I know it's bad to mix subs, but i'm not sure how that applies to tops. I was thinking of getting a pair of QSC Kw 153's, or a pair of Jbl prx 625's or something. And just adding those in place to give me more sound during larger events.

Suggestions?

ampnation
04-07-2012, 07:36 PM
I'd see how it sounds with the adjustments recommended in the other thread first. You may be surprised.

However, if you're looking for bigger and louder, I would personally start saving for a significantly bigger system. For larger events in the meantime, I'd rent a bigger system. By bigger and louder, I'm talking along the order of systems discussed in this thread... http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?4645-Soundsystem-for-1-500-people-What-would-you-go-with like the VRX, TT etc. You can find slightly louder systems than what you've got, but if you're doing larger events, you'll soon outgrow those. Better to get something scalable. Nick, Mike (audiopyle), Phil L. and Bill F. each have lots of experience and knowledge. I believe they all contributed in that thread.

And speaking of Bill, if you're looking for loud and low subs on a budget, his DIY subs (http://billfitzmaurice.com/) are great if you're doing budget school dances and the like and can do the woodwork. They really become cost efficient and better performers when you're running them in a herd of 4 or more in parallel. (at least two per amp channel depending on gear)

Al Poulin
04-07-2012, 07:40 PM
I've been thinking about this for a while and I can't decide on what to do.

I have two RCF Art 312A's and two Yorkville LS720P's (elite series ones).

I sometimes find myself in a dilemma where i'm running my system into just-before-limiting, for my larger events.

I know it's bad to mix subs, but i'm not sure how that applies to tops. I was thinking of getting a pair of QSC Kw 153's, or a pair of Jbl prx 625's or something. And just adding those in place to give me more sound during larger events.

Suggestions?

Those tops and subs are pretty well matched output wise. If you add more tops, you're going to need more subs too OR ELSE you'll find yourself with your current subs running at their limit all the time trying to keep up with the tops...

Are you close coupling your subs? Are your gains well set on your tops/subs? Are your tops or subs usually limiting first?

Al

akillj
04-07-2012, 08:00 PM
Ampnation, Thank you and yes i'll consider testing what I heard in the last thread and go from there.

Al, for my largest events, I usually set both of them accordingly to what sounds balanced, then crank them up. They both usually limit around the same time. (Although my subs do limit a little bit closer to first, but its about the same if you ask me)

The problem as I see it is overall volume. And yeah I close-couple my subs during larger events. That's why I was thinking about adding, say, a pair of qsc 153's so I Could get that extra mf/hf volume in there. The larger events that I do usually have music and Pa involved, sometimes at the same time, and when the announcers start talking louder and louder while music is playing to get the hype up, my tops occasionally limit and with all this signal to my tops I feel like they wanna kill themselves lol.

DJJDGator
04-07-2012, 08:35 PM
Why wouldn't you just buy another pair rcf 312a or 310a for now and then add more subs later. To me that sounds like the most economical solution to your problem. Rcf 312a 800 a pair or 310a 750 a pair.

jayhwk
04-07-2012, 08:57 PM
Why wouldn't you just buy another pair rcf 312a or 310a for now and then add more subs later. To me that sounds like the most economical solution to your problem. Rcf 312a 800 a pair or 310a 750 a pair.

I wouldn't do that unless more coverage is the problem - the 312a is a 90 degree box. Putting two side by side will give you some gain in volume in some areas but cancellation in others, plus it won't sound as good. Unfortunately, high frequency speakers just don't add like low frequencies do.

If you're reaching the limit of the 312a, I think you were correct in thinking a step up - I really liked the HPR153, but haven't heard the KW 153. The Electro-Voice ZXA5 is in the same price range and sounds excellent, too.

ampnation
04-07-2012, 09:41 PM
The Electro-Voice ZXA5 is in the same price range and sounds excellent, too.

I saw somewhere else, somebody looking at the FBT ProMaxx14a as a potential competitor to the ZXA5. FBT is a brand I don't see discussed here much but they have a good rep from what I've seen.

Nick_EventPro
04-08-2012, 02:27 AM
Think about the events where you feel like you're running out of sound...
What type of events are these? How often do you do these kind of events? Approx. how big of a room do you want to cover, and approx for what crowd size?

Just adding more boxes might not be the solution. Most soundsystems are scalable to a degree, but at some point, you're going to want to get into a larger point source system or an array. Whether it makes financial sense to go that route depends on how often you're doing those kind of events that call for it. To do sound properly for larger events, it will unfortunately cost you quite a bit- you may find out that the investment simply isn't worth it at this point and the times when you need a larger soundsystem its better to hire it out. Try and give us some info. and parameters to work within and we can give you better advice.

akillj
04-08-2012, 04:46 AM
thanks for the suggestions guys

@Nick, Usually school rallys. In which 1400 kids are crowded into a Gymnasium while i'm providing music and mic pa, sometimes at the same time. School dances aswell, in which both situations i'm running my setup hard.

And yeah I get what you mean about it not being worth it, which is why i was thinking of slapping a pair of 153's on top of my subs to help add sound so i can give my rcf's a breather.

windspeed36
04-08-2012, 06:50 AM
Even with 800 in the gym for a school dance, 2 312 tops and those subs would be a struggle. As nick said, have a serious think about what events you are doing at the moment and what your looking to do in the future. Something such as the VRX932LAP from JBL or the QSC KLA series baby line array modules. They're active and really really versatile. I have 12 of the VRX boxes and use them pretty much all the time. Otherwise EAW has the passive JFL210 which is very similar and just as versatile

audiopyle
04-08-2012, 02:44 PM
thanks for the suggestions guys

@Nick, Usually school rallys. In which 1400 kids are crowded into a Gymnasium while i'm providing music and mic pa, sometimes at the same time. School dances aswell, in which both situations i'm running my setup hard.

You need to at least double your tops and subs to approach a gig like this. Then you would just get by. To really deliver good performance for a large venue and crowd like this requires a different level of gear. Most DJs aren't going to invest in line array or large column systems even if they could afford to, so look at arrayable point source cabinets with high spl capability. The EV ZXA5 and RCF ART725A are options to consider. I have some used ART500s that would be great but they are passive.

As far as subs go, you can add more LS720Ps but it makes more sense if you will be doing these type events to go for the LS801P or other 18" instead, or maybe have a couple of both models available for different purposes.

If you HAVE to do it incrementally, maybe add one sub and one top now, then another top asap. At that point I'd start looking to sell the old gear and upgrade.

akillj
04-08-2012, 02:46 PM
Even with 800 in the gym for a school dance, 2 312 tops and those subs would be a struggle. As nick said, have a serious think about what events you are doing at the moment and what your looking to do in the future. Something such as the VRX932LAP from JBL or the QSC KLA series baby line array modules. They're active and really really versatile. I have 12 of the VRX boxes and use them pretty much all the time. Otherwise EAW has the passive JFL210 which is very similar and just as versatile


Yeah I've been told that before, and I understand. I just use as much as I can to my advantage. (Mutual coupling + Next to a wall). My setup's always been 'just enough' for this kinda stuff, which is why now I feel its time to step up.

My budget would be around say 3-5 grand, which is why I didn't wanna look into tour grade stuff yet, as i'd blow it all away on an array system and not even have enough for subs yet.

akillj
04-08-2012, 02:51 PM
If I purchased a pair of the 725's, would I be using those WITH my 312A's? (4 tops total?) and I was thinking of picking up a pair of the 801P's as an upgrade, but they're just so heavy. I like the compact weight of my ls720p's and don't want to start breaking my back. suggestions?

audiopyle
04-08-2012, 03:02 PM
I have some b-stock ART725As at a good discount. You could use those as mains and use the ART312As for outfill, centerfill or delays depending on the room arrangment. If you want to stick with the LS720P instead of a bigger sub, then add a pair, and get a DSP to use for crossover, eq, routing and delay. I would suggest a DSP that can provide at least 150ms of delay on each output. A very good choice is the Ashly 3.6SP, which is 3in x 6out, providing great flexibilty in system control.

akillj
04-08-2012, 03:22 PM
I might get a pair of the 801's but I haven't decided. I think it would look better with two subs coupled rather then 4 subs coupled. Just to the eye. Setting subs aside, I'm still confused on what I should do for tops.

Thank you for your suggestion Audiopyle, i'll keep that in mind and if I decide to purchase those, i'll definitely get them from you.

However i'd still like more input on what I should do for my tops. I like the flexibility on the the QSC mixer on the back of the amps , cause for smaller gigs i'd have way more flexibility and not even have to bring my mixer for mic/music input. (One of the reasons I kept suggesting the Qsc KW line)