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View Full Version : New speaker time, need options.



Gjhowe1
03-30-2012, 11:42 AM
Hey guys,

So its new PA speaker time! Woo Hoo, tax return showed up so its time to make some good use of that government money.

Budget: $1200 for a pair of powered cabs.

I already have 1 700w sub (15") so bass response is not really a problem.

Here is what im looking at so far:

-JBL PRX 512mi (can get a pair for under $1200)
- Cerwin Vega CVA-28 (I have the matching Sub for these)
- RCF 310a (I thought since i have a sub i can use the 10's as the sub can handle the bass)
- ELX 112p

Suggestions, comments? Al if your on here today your advice is greatly appreciated as always (given you have a impressive wall of powered speakers :P)

thanks everyone,

-Greg

Al Poulin
03-30-2012, 12:17 PM
Hey guys,

So its new PA speaker time! Woo Hoo, tax return showed up so its time to make some good use of that government money.

Budget: $1200 for a pair of powered cabs.

I already have 1 700w sub (15") so bass response is not really a problem.

Here is what im looking at so far:

-JBL PRX 512mi (can get a pair for under $1200)
- Cerwin Vega CVA-28 (I have the matching Sub for these)
- RCF 310a (I thought since i have a sub i can use the 10's as the sub can handle the bass)
- ELX 112p

Suggestions, comments? Al if your on here today your advice is greatly appreciated as always (given you have a impressive wall of powered speakers :P)

thanks everyone,

-Greg

Hi Greg,

You know how I feel about the RCF 310As with a sub or two... Simply outstanding, bookshelf speaker sized cabinets that are under 30lbs. but with output that will knock your socks off given their minuscule proportions :love:

A pair of the 310As will have no problem keeping up with 2 of those CVs. You don't even need a crossover. Just DO NOT boost the low frequencies on your mixer or EQ (adjust the gain of the CV so that the sound is well balanced) and just add a little top end boost to the sound and you're good to go. I don't use an external EQ at all. I usually cut 3DBs of low frequencies and boost 3DBs of high frequencies on my mixer channels and the RCFs give me the sound I want with a sub or two.

Feel free if you have any questions at all.

Al

drzinc
03-30-2012, 12:24 PM
The CVA28 are fine speakers have a listen they are compact but the project well and the coax speaker design is a feature I lieke. I have a pair of 15" coax that people always look for the horn. The hear the nice highs but no horn to be seen.

Gjhowe1
03-30-2012, 12:58 PM
Thanks for the advice Al,

I remember back on 1.0 you had a little review written up on the 310's so thought id pick your brain lol. The 310's are the most cost effective option for me right now, ill most likely pull the trigger on these and a second sub.

I am planning on getting a drive rack down the road for EQing and limiting (dam college parties, someone always jacks up the gain in their set) so ill probably run them though that.

Have you had any problems with yours? Indoor vs. outdoor?

Thanks,

-Greg

Al Poulin
03-30-2012, 01:27 PM
Thanks for the advice Al,

I remember back on 1.0 you had a little review written up on the 310's so thought id pick your brain lol. The 310's are the most cost effective option for me right now, ill most likely pull the trigger on these and a second sub.

I am planning on getting a drive rack down the road for EQing and limiting (dam college parties, someone always jacks up the gain in their set) so ill probably run them though that.

Have you had any problems with yours? Indoor vs. outdoor?

Thanks,

-Greg

My 310as (four of them) have been trouble free and have done a fine job at all event at which they have been used. Just make sure they're up on stands (obviously) and be careful with the gain knob, as I have read that they are sensitive and can be problematic if you play with them too much. That is pretty much the only issue I've read about - and I've only read about it once or twice, so you should be fine. As for outdoor use, it is definitely more demanding for any cab as their are no walls (and less reflective boundaries). You are in the open air and will require more output in general. Effective outdoor music reproduction simply requires more rig : more subs, more tops, more power than indoors. Tops with true 2" exit horns can help with projection, but are more $$$ and don't usually sound as good when producing the sweeter high frequencies.

Al

Al

Gjhowe1
03-30-2012, 01:40 PM
LOL yes outdoor can be a royal pain in the @$$ some days. Luckily these don't have to cover a very large area for outdoors, mainly bbq's, patio parties, ect.

Now I can get a set of JBL PRX512mi 's which ive rented before and have heard both indoors and outdoors for the same price. Obviously the 512's have more bass response on them, but in terms of overall quality would you still recommend the RCF over the JBL? The mixer section is not really an issue, as I have a small live sound mixer that can handle all the I/O.

As always your help is appreciated :tup:

-Greg

Al Poulin
03-30-2012, 02:00 PM
LOL yes outdoor can be a royal pain in the @$$ some days. Luckily these don't have to cover a very large area for outdoors, mainly bbq's, patio parties, ect.

Now I can get a set of JBL PRX512mi 's which ive rented before and have heard both indoors and outdoors for the same price. Obviously the 512's have more bass response on them, but in terms of overall quality would you still recommend the RCF over the JBL? The mixer section is not really an issue, as I have a small live sound mixer that can handle all the I/O.

As always your help is appreciated :tup:

-Greg

For BBQs and patio parties, you will have MORE than enough output, believe me. Even without subs, the 310As will probably surprise you with their thump IF you can get them in front of a wall and/or close to a boundary. (for example stacking them up one on top of the other ON the patio in front of a wall) They have a nice built-in boost at about 90-100hz. The JBLs might only be wort the extra $$$ IF you sometimes want to use tops with no subs. The RCFs, while quite amazing for their size, are ultra compact cabinets with 10" woofers that only extend so low and in a hall -on stands -won't produce much low end by themselves, which is to be expeted of course. Interesting fact : the 10" woofer used in the 310A is the same one used in the 710A and has a 2.5" coice coil AND 600 watts of Program power handling. Surprising little 10" actually... As for the sound quality of the JBL vs the RCF, I simply love the sound of RCF speakers, especially the smooth mids and sweet highs they are known for - so my bet would be on the RCF sounding better.

Al

Gjhowe1
03-30-2012, 02:19 PM
Rcf it is! Thanks for the help Al,

+rep

-Greg

Al Poulin
03-30-2012, 02:35 PM
Rcf it is! Thanks for the help Al,

+rep

-Greg


Are you planning to order from Canada or the US? It might be worth looking for a local dealer as I'm not sure how warranty works when you buy from the US and shipping back and forth can be costly. Price in Canada is about 600$ per cab. Also, in Canada they come CSA approved (which probably explains the price difference). You might also want to consider the 312As if you want the extra thump in case you don't always use your sub(s). If not, the 310As are tough to beat in the output for size category.

Al

Gjhowe1
03-30-2012, 02:38 PM
I have a local dealer here in Toronto that can get them to me for a low price :) fits my budget perfectly even with tax / shipping (local pickup). Have not been able to find the 312's for a decent price, or I would have gone with them.

Al Poulin
03-30-2012, 02:48 PM
I have a local dealer here in Toronto that can get them to me for a low price :) fits my budget perfectly even with tax / shipping (local pickup). Have not been able to find the 312's for a decent price, or I would have gone with them.

Awesome - please let us know your thoughts once you receive them and have a chance to test them out. :)

Al

Gjhowe1
03-30-2012, 03:28 PM
OK order has been placed should be picking these up tonight. :) If anyone is interested (now that I have my pair) got these for 499.99 a piece. Good deal for Canadians. Link is posted under the Canada subsection.

DJ Sunshine
03-31-2012, 02:43 AM
Have you looked at the QSC K10/12 series? I'm a recent QSC convert, their stuff IMO is on point.

EDIT: Shoulda looked at the second page....:facepalm:

Al Poulin
03-31-2012, 10:52 AM
Have you looked at the QSC K10/12 series? I'm a recent QSC convert, their stuff IMO is on point.

EDIT: Shoulda looked at the second page....:facepalm:


The QSCs are excellent and do have more features, but sound quality wise - the RCFs simply sound better especially at high levels. Output wise, the 350 watt RCF 310As and 312As actually keep up with the 1000 watt K10 and K12.

Al

Gjhowe1
03-31-2012, 11:51 AM
Picked up the 310-a today. Only have one of them atm, second one is being express shipped to me on Tuesday as one of the speakers was damaged in shipping to the supplier. I haven't been able to power these up yet (roomie is still sleeping lol) but based on weight alone I already love this thing.

Got a little live sound mixer as well for mic routing, monitoring and live sound applications. I have a BBQ coming up on Thursday where I will be testing these outdoors along with the CVA-115 sub. Will post results soon :)

Incognito
03-31-2012, 12:17 PM
The QSCs are excellent and do have more features, but sound quality wise - the RCFs simply sound better especially at high levels. Output wise, the 350 watt RCF 310As and 312As actually keep up with the 1000 watt K10 and K12.

Al
The K series was a step backwards for QSC with the KW series being a step back into the right direction but I still think the HPR series was the best sounding of the lot, however feature wise both the K & KW series have a much better onboard mixer section & processing then the HPR. Bang for the buck most definitively goes on out to the RCF 310a/312a & the fact that they also sound pretty darn good is a plus but aesthetically speaking, all of the QSC speakers look better.

Watts doesn't mean much all in itself so it doesn't matter if one has a 1,000 watt amp module & the other has a 350 watt module. Remember a lot of the power inside of the QSC is wasted since the amp module is made up of two mono 500 watt watts with one delivering to the woofer while the other to the compression driver. Knowing that the compression will not handle more then 50 watts, the rest of that power isn't even used. With that in mind the difference between 550 watts & 350 watts is less then 3db so of no real consequence in out output potential. The sensitivity of the drivers also hugely comes into play since a more sensitive driver will require less power to reach the same potential as a less sensitive driver using more power.

Incognito
03-31-2012, 12:20 PM
Picked up the 310-a today. Only have one of them atm, second one is being express shipped to me on Tuesday as one of the speakers was damaged in shipping to the supplier. I haven't been able to power these up yet (roomie is still sleeping lol) but based on weight alone I already love this thing.

Got a little live sound mixer as well for mic routing, monitoring and live sound applications. I have a BBQ coming up on Thursday where I will be testing these outdoors along with the CVA-115 sub. Will post results soon :)

That's a nice compact system you have going there, for the kind of applications you mentioned you should be happy with the results. You know we all like eye candy so remember to take pic or upload a youtube video of speakers in action at the BBQ.

Gjhowe1
03-31-2012, 12:24 PM
Will do :) Ill see if I can borrow my buddies nikon and get some nice high res pics for you guys :)

Al Poulin
03-31-2012, 12:43 PM
Watts doesn't mean much all in itself so it doesn't matter if one has a 1,000 watt amp module & the other has a 350 watt module. Remember a lot of the power inside of the QSC is wasted since the amp module is made up of two mono 500 watt watts with one delivering to the woofer while the other to the compression driver. Knowing that the compression will not handle more then 50 watts, the rest of that power isn't even used. With that in mind the difference between 550 watts & 350 watts is less then 3db so of no real consequence in out output potential. The sensitivity of the drivers also hugely comes into play since a more sensitive driver will require less power to reach the same potential as a less sensitive driver using more power.

Yeah, I understand these things very well. I just like pointing out that the big 1000 watt number on the QSCs is more marketing than anything else. ;) for so long I've been reading 1000 watt this and that about the Ks - especially when they first came out. I became really sick of hearing it and people saying these were the most amazing and powerful speakers ever. AND that they were 1000 watts! I simply enjoy pointing out that the 350 watt RCFs keep up - just for the sake of proving that the watts numbers only mean so much... Al

Gjhowe1
03-31-2012, 04:06 PM
Well I just A-B these RCF 310's with the Yorkville NX520p.....I thought the yorkvilles sounded good all this time....I was wrong. Not only do the RCF sound better at high SPL, but I was NOT ABLE to put them into limiting (and I actually tried!). I maxed out my mixer before the RCF cabs went into limiting. This is a HUGE improvement over the yorkvilles that would limit quite quickly.

Im going to need to get a second sub to keep up with these cabs, my sub could keep up with the cab at normal level bass, but for club level it has a hard time at just below limiting.

Absolutely blown away by the amount of sound that can come out of such a small box. Think I have a new favorite speaker. The weight on these things are incredible as well.....feels so much nicer then the yorkies.

As soon as I get this system outdoors and am able to crank it up I shall do a full review on both the subs and cabs. So far I am impressed! Great recommendation guys!

Al Poulin
04-01-2012, 04:55 PM
Well I just A-B these RCF 310's with the Yorkville NX520p.....I thought the yorkvilles sounded good all this time....I was wrong. Not only do the RCF sound better at high SPL, but I was NOT ABLE to put them into limiting (and I actually tried!). I maxed out my mixer before the RCF cabs went into limiting. This is a HUGE improvement over the yorkvilles that would limit quite quickly.

Im going to need to get a second sub to keep up with these cabs, my sub could keep up with the cab at normal level bass, but for club level it has a hard time at just below limiting.

Absolutely blown away by the amount of sound that can come out of such a small box. Think I have a new favorite speaker. The weight on these things are incredible as well.....feels so much nicer then the yorkies.

As soon as I get this system outdoors and am able to crank it up I shall do a full review on both the subs and cabs. So far I am impressed! Great recommendation guys!


I am happy to say I told you so.:P

Yeah, those little cabs are freakin' awesome. As I mentionned, 2 of them will easily keep up with a pair of those CV subs. The Yorkvilles are good sounding speakers, but they do limit rather quickly. I own the NX55Ps for about 6 years now (an improved and much bassier version of the 520P) and although I love them because of their deep full sound (down to 45hz) I always have to keep an eye on the limit lights which are triggered fairly easily BUT do so to save the woofers - who can only move so much air. The RCFs don't go very low but have a smooth midrange and sweet top end and can dish out the SPL as you have notifced!

Al

Gjhowe1
04-01-2012, 05:21 PM
I am happy to say I told you so.:P

As I mentionned, 2 of them will easily keep up with a pair of those CV subs.

Al

Glad to here it for once.

Its more the woofers trying to keep up with the tops now. Next purchase, processor/EQ to make everything....mesh.

Took the 310 out last night to a small dorm party, more then enough sound out of one cab for the 30 or so ppl in attendance. Very impressed.

Al Poulin
04-01-2012, 05:42 PM
Glad to here it for once.

Its more the woofers trying to keep up with the tops now. Next purchase, processor/EQ to make everything....mesh.

Took the 310 out last night to a small dorm party, more then enough sound out of one cab for the 30 or so ppl in attendance. Very impressed.

As long as you don't boost the bass to much, you will have plenty of power and headroom. You can only expect so much low frequencies from such a compact 10'' speaker though. Combined with a sub or two, they are surprising and sound so sweet...

Al

DJJDGator
04-01-2012, 09:05 PM
As long as you don't boost the bass to much, you will have plenty of power and headroom. You can only expect so much low frequencies from such a compact 10'' speaker though. Combined with a sub or two, they are surprising and sound so sweet...

Al

Hey al, do you think 2 rcf 310a crossed over with 2 jbl prx 718s will work for 200+ people?

Al Poulin
04-01-2012, 09:37 PM
Hey al, do you think 2 rcf 310a crossed over with 2 jbl prx 718s will work for 200+ people?

For typical wedding levels, absolutely. As soon as you have a sub or two handling the lower frequencies, you don't need huge tops. A high output compact top will be less visible, will take up less room in your vehicle AND will be so much easier to stand mount. If you don't like the look of the 310As, QSC K10s or Yamaha DXR10s are other great choices that will sound almost as good.

Al

DJJDGator
04-01-2012, 09:44 PM
For typical wedding levels, absolutely. As soon as you have a sub or two handling the lower frequencies, you don't need huge tops. A high output compact top will be less visible, will take up less room in your vehicle AND will be so much easier to stand mount. If you don't like the look of the 310As, QSC K10s or Yamaha DXR10s are other great choices that will sound almost as good.

Al

OH no i have 3 rcf 310as and 2 rcf 312as all on your recommendation. Best bang for your buck out of all these powered speakers currently in the market. I'm one of those people that have tried the mackie srm 350 and 450s, k8 and k10, the prx 615 and the Ev elx112ps. I've bought and sold all those speakers and end up with the art 300s because they are great speakers for the money.

Al Poulin
04-01-2012, 10:01 PM
OH no i have 3 rcf 310as and 2 rcf 312as all on your recommendation. Best bang for your buck out of all these powered speakers currently in the market. I'm one of those people that have tried the mackie srm 350 and 450s, k8 and k10, the prx 615 and the Ev elx112ps. I've bought and sold all those speakers and end up with the art 300s because they are great speakers for the money.

RCF speakers are great speakers period. ;) I didn't get mine at the price you guys can get them for. I paid 700$ a piece for my first set of 310As and 620$ a piece for the second set. That makes over 2600$ for my four small tops. :eek:

I've compared so many powered speakers, but always come back to the RCFs as my favorites when it comes to sound quality and output. I bought 4 of the 310As because I liked them so much. I'm considering getting a set of 312As as well. Now, I would need more subs in my collection - but they're just not as fun to compare. :D

Some people don't like their look, but I do. I would have preffered to get the version with the full grill for weddings mostly, but it doesn't seem available to canadians...

http://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/commercial-audio/projectors-monitors-column-speakers/art-310-ai


Al