big out door college campus lawn

[tylert7]

im gonna be djing a large college campus lawn. im gonna be playing top 40 stuff and some hip-hop. its not a ton of people, maybe 300-400 people but they are gonna be spread out. i have my ev elx112p pair, my alto ts115a pair, i took back my EV subs and got two ls801p subs. i was looking into buying a pair of used prx612's or prx712's or should i just buy more elx112p's and spread the out. the specs say the prx712's are louder then my elx112p's but we all know the rated specs aren't always true. i know i should probably get more subs for this event but that isn't going to happen right now.

let me know what you guys think

[Desmorider]

You took back your brand new e/v ekx subs? Thought you were really happy with them. How muck you pay for the 801's? B

[tylert7]

the EVs were good but i heard a ls801 and it was as loud or louder then both my EVs coupled together. $1149 each. my friends laugh at me cause i use a engine hoist to transport the ls801's. im planning on buying two more ls801's before the end of the year

[Incognito]

Electro-Voice ETX-18SP is a much better sounding sub then the LS801p & is in the same SPL range yet goes deeper & has a much more powerful built in DSP for around $1,349.00 - $1,499.00 each. The problem you're going to run into though is that your subs are going to end up running away from your current tops thus will have to be scaled back once you move forward to the four subs your planning by years end.

[tylert7]

i'll upgrade my tops as well. i know the ls801 doesn't have as good of bass quality as the etx-18sp but the ls801 is a bit louder. and ive never had somebody come up an talk to me about the quality of the bass, but the amount of bass is another story. thats what people notice.

do you think jbl prx712 or prx715 speakers is a good upgrade from elx112p's?
i also heard the prx700 series of tops aren't any louder then the prx600 series. if thats true i'll save some money and get prx600 series speakers instead

[Evil Steve]

do you think jbl prx712 or prx715 speakers is a good upgrade from elx112p's?

No really that's just a sideways move. There's no remarkable difference between your EV's and the prx712. Any advantage the prx715 might have will be negated when you use a sub.
If you want to significantly upgrade your tops, you must spend some money if you go new.
You can try diy if you have time and skill.
You can get used if you have patience and are willing to do research.

[tylert7]

the jbl srx800 series? or some 3 way speakers? or crazy expensive array speakers? i just need to know what to look for

[DJ Nada]

...and ive never had somebody come up an talk to me about the quality of the bass, but the amount of bass is another story. thats what people notice.


I would never rely on audience feedback for this kind of stuff. As a professional YOU should know if your system sounds good or not. It's pretty rare that someone comes up and says "Hey mate, your subs sound like a gorilla farting in a trash can." But if that's what your sound system sounds like, YOU should recognize that and correct it. Don't put out an iffy product and count on nobody noticing. Don't count on accurate feedback from drunk people. I've gotten compliments (and booked for additional gigs) on some of my worst nights.

[tylert7]

the ls801's sound fine. im just saying it was worth it to get the ls801 instead of the etx-18sp. i still need to know what would be a substantal tops upgrade from elx112p's

[Incognito]

i'll upgrade my tops as well. i know the ls801 doesn't have as good of bass quality as the etx-18sp but the ls801 is a bit louder. and ive never had somebody come up an talk to me about the quality of the bass, but the amount of bass is another story. thats what people notice.


The SPL of the LS801P is not that as listed on the spec sheets, what makes it seem "louder" is the boosted frequencies in the built in LS801P processing. The LS801P has a 1,500 watt amp but uses part# 7459 (http://yorkville.com/downloads/servman/sm_ls801p.pdf) 18" 8R 1200WPGM SPEAKER so the driver is actually 600 watts RMS (the amp is limited to the drivers spec thus not using anywhere near the amps true potential). The posted spec (http://yorkville.com/downloads/specsheet/ss_ls801p.pdf) of 134db on the LS801P is actually just a calculated output based on the 1,500 watts of the amp not an actual measured output, crunching the available numbers it seems the sensitivity of the speaker is 102db 1w/1m so the calculated continuous SPL (based on the drivers 600 watt RMS rating) should actually be 129.8db. Since Yorkville based their listed specs on the amps 1,500 watt continuous output to achieve their listed 134db output (which the driver already can't handle the full power of), their listed spec of 140db peak is just utter trash since it takes a doubling of power just to achieve a 3db gain yet they list the amp as having a 2,500 watt peak ouput. The EV ETX 18SP DVX3180A driver is actually measured (http://www.electrovoice.com/etx/) at 1 m using broadband pink noise at maximum output (though that spec too can be picked apart) combine that with the fact that the EV ETX 18SP goes much deeper plus offers a much more powerful FIR Drive DSP & powerful features such as cardioid configurations .

People do notice the difference in the quality of bass it's just that the average expectation of sound quality from the average DJ setup just isn't that high.

[Evil Steve]

Active tops, there are a few models of 12"-2 way boxes out there, that will be better than the speakers you already have.
If you were willing to go passive, there are quite a few good loudspeakers out there, that could do the sort of event you're looking at.
In your situation, my first instinct would be to look at JTR noesis. A pair of 3tx might be just the ticket for tops.
Going that way, you'd need powerful amps and external processing.
Yorkville unity U15p might be a solution. Not ideal, but pretty good for that application.

All just suggestions... There really aren't any "one box fits all situations" solutions.

[DYM]

I would get 6 Yamaha 112 DSRs (4 front fire/2 side fill) and go with 4 LS801s.... Could work out in your favor.

[light-o-matic]

I never liked the 801, tons of output tho. That's their saving grace. I haven't heard the ETX sub yet but I'd not hesitate to choose them over the 801. But that's me.

As far as the tops, I just had the experience this weekend (which I posted in another thread just now) of being able to directly compare the ELX112P with the PRX612M with the same input, at a loud dance party (I was the engineer employed by the party promoter, to take care of things with the venue system). The PRX612M was in practice far louder than the ELX and sounded better at high volume. Given the choice of those two, the PRX seems like the one you want. Having 4 less loud boxes are not as good as 2 louder boxes unless your crowd wraps around you to the sides. If they are far back, you are better off with two better boxes.

[conanski]

LOL.. At least we got him going in the right direction now, he should have a kick ass system... sometime in the near future.

Speaking of the LS801.. I'm going to be renting a pair of the new PSA2S dual 15 subs or a pair of the PS18S 18" subs next weekend. I went in looking for a pair of LS801s but L&M only rents the new Parasource stuff now for the most part. The guy at the shop says the PS18s is everything the LS801 was but with more lowend extension and better overall sound. He did a tone sweep on it for a little demo and it has no problem producing pants flapping output into the 25hz range.:eek:

[tylert7]

it seems never ending

[audiopyle]

the ls801's sound fine. im just saying it was worth it to get the ls801 instead of the etx-18sp. i still need to know what would be a substantal tops upgrade from elx112p's

EV ZXA5, RCF ART745, FBT ProMaxx14a, Yamaha DSR115. People will tell you "you don't need a 15" top with a sub", but all of these tops have significantly greater output than any of the mid grade 12" tops.

[tylert7]

i dont need more low end volume. i need more mids and highs. getting 15" tops will just give me more bass i think

[Incognito]

If you want good mids & highs at high SPL you may want to consider passive, here's a couple good examples.

QRx 212/75 (http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=193)
Noesis 2AX (http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/noesis-2ax-2/)
Noesis 3TX (http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/noesis-3tx/)
Unity U215 (http://yorkville.com/loudspeakers/unity/product/u215/)

There are plenty of other options as well such as line array based tops that are offered in both passive as well as active options but it all comes down to how much are you willing to invest.

I used to own a pair of the older generation JTR tops, they gave such a smooth response that kept clean even at high SPL & provided such rich detail that you would expect from a quality home HiFi system (actually the JTR speakers are also used in high end home theaters). The newer generation are said to be of an even higher quality so I would really consider those but then you'll want to consider higher quality bass then what the LS801's can provide to properly compliment the quality tops.

[tylert7]

If you want good mids & highs at high SPL you may want to consider passive, here's a couple good examples.

QRx 212/75 (http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=193)
Noesis 2AX (http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/noesis-2ax-2/)
Noesis 3TX (http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/noesis-3tx/)
Unity U215 (http://yorkville.com/loudspeakers/unity/product/u215/)

There are plenty of other options as well such as line array based tops that are offered in both passive as well as active options but it all comes down to how much are you willing to invest.

I used to own a pair of the older generation JTR tops, they gave such a smooth response that kept clean even at high SPL & provided such rich detail that you would expect from a quality home HiFi system (actually the JTR speakers are also used in high end home theaters). The newer generation are said to be of an even higher quality so I would really consider those but then you'll want to consider higher quality bass then what the LS801's can provide to properly compliment the quality tops.

none of those speakers have a higher max spl than the prx715(136dB max). is it more then just spl specs?

[light-o-matic]

Simply.. the first three speakers that Incognito mentioned all use an HF driver with a larger throat size than the ETX, matched with a smaller LF driver than the ETX. All else being equal, this will give you greater mid and high capability (but, perhaps a bit less of the highest highs).

The last speaker, the U215, is a three way design with THREE 5 inch mid drivers.

[Desmorider]

EV ZXA5, RCF ART745, FBT ProMaxx14a, Yamaha DSR115. People will tell you "you don't need a 15" top with a sub", but all of these tops have significantly greater output than any of the mid grade 12" tops.


This above.

All the speakers that mike list will have a lot more output and better highs then what you have now. I have the rcf 745's and the mids and highs are outstanding. This is due to the 4in coil on the horn enabling the use of a lower crossover point for the horn. Don't get caught up in manufacturers listed spl numbers. The zxa5's and 745's get louder then any powered two way box in the same price range. The dsr, and promaxx also get quite a bit louder then what you have now. The new srx800 series from jbl also looks impressive on paper, but no reviews out yet.

[Desmorider]

the EVs were good but i heard a ls801 and it was as loud or louder then both my EVs coupled together. $1149 each. my friends laugh at me cause i use a engine hoist to transport the ls801's. im planning on buying two more ls801's before the end of the year

Pics of lifting ls801's with engine hoist.

[light-o-matic]

This above.

This is due to the 4in coil on the horn enabling the use of a lower crossover point for the horn.

It is actually the throat size of the horn that makes that difference, not the voice coil size. A larger voice coil/diaphragm size can compress more air and up to a point give more output.. but there is a limit to how far you can go in that direction before physics gets in the way. Unfortunately, some speaker manufacturers try to confuse this issue by only listing diaphragm sizes and not throat sizes. For example Behringer listing a puny 0.75 inch throat driver as "1.25 inch".

[Desmorider]

i dont need more low end volume. i need more mids and highs. getting 15" tops will just give me more bass i think

Wrong thought. Some 15 boxes will have better high freq components. And when hi-passed they don't have to worry about the freqs below the crossover point 80, 90, 100hz. The power from the onboard amp is used to drive the highs, which is easier on the amp.

[Desmorider]

It is actually the throat size of the horn that makes that difference, not the voice coil size. A larger voice coil/diaphragm size can compress more air and up to a point give more output.. but there is a limit to how far you can go in that direction before physics gets in the way. Unfortunately, some speaker manufacturers try to confuse this issue by only listing diaphragm sizes and not throat sizes. For example Behringer listing a puny 0.75 inch throat driver as "1.25 inch".

I understand the throat size is important also, however you also said that the coil size contributes to a point. One reason for larger diaphragm and and a smaller throat is to cut down on harshness of the horn. The 745 has a 4in coil and a smaller throat and its very smooth. Also allows for 650hz crossover point.

[tylert7]

Pics of lifting ls801's with engine hoist.

i still don't have a way to upload pics on here. if they had to try to carry 137lbs with only one arm they would use a engine hoist also

[light-o-matic]

I understand the throat size is important also, however you also said that the coil size contributes to a point. One reason for larger diaphragm and and a smaller throat is to cut down on harshness of the horn. The 745 has a 4in coil and a smaller throat and its very smooth. Also allows for 650hz crossover point.

Here's some info: http://sound.westhost.com/articles/pa.htm#s511

It's the 1.5 inch throat size of the driver used in the 745 that allows it to cross over to the 15 at a lower frequency and thus allow the box to perform better than cheaper 15 inch 2-way boxes that mate a 1 inch with a 15. Sure, a well designed 15+1 with a high quality driver with good size diaphragm and all that can in theory perform better than a shitty 1.5 + 15 inch box with bad drivers in it. I'm not sure anyone would really bother making a shitty box like that... But that does not change the laws of physics which dictate that a smaller throat cannot effectively go as low as a larger throat. Actually 650 hz is a lower crossover point than I would expect for a 1.5 inch throat, that is closer to the suggested minimum frequency for most 2 inch throat drivers.

[Johnnotestine]

none of those speakers have a higher max spl than the prx715(136dB max). is it more then just spl specs?

This made me laugh out loud. One of the best examples of how stupid max spl specs are. My Noesis 3TX get WAY louder and sound much nicer than any of the prx line. It's not even close...

[tylert7]

This made me laugh out loud. One of the best examples of how stupid max spl specs are. My Noesis 3TX get WAY louder and sound much nicer than any of the prx line. It's not even close...

like ive said before im far from a speaker expert. i just compare specs and specs are wrong most the time

[audiopyle]

One moderately priced 12" two way to consider would be the RCF HD32A. It has a 2" exit horn driver.

[tylert7]

i want as loud of speakers as posasible but still be clear. the rcf art745a seems amazing. im thinking two of them would be good. id have to buy used ones though

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCF-ART-745-A-Active-2-Way-Speaker-Powered-Monitor-w-4-Voice-Coil-B-/301546500256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46359270a0

[DJ Tandem]

I had sucsesfull parties of 150-200 persons with my Rcf art 745 active speakers, they are realy good sound quality.


http://www.dj-tandem.ro

[Incognito]

none of those speakers have a higher max spl than the prx715(136dB max). is it more then just spl specs?

Don't for a minute believe that 136db max claim for the PRX 715 being anything useable, the JTR speakers I list are actually rated conservative & will get higher then spec but the point is they will do what the specs say they will do. For the PRX 715 to reach 136db with it's 1,500 watt amp module the speaker would have to have a sensitivity of 104db 1w/1m & even then it wouldn't be attainable once you factor in the effects of power compression..

[tylert7]

how much louder are art745a's then my elx112p's? because i can do a 200-250 people party with just my elx112p's and subs

[conanski]

Tyler... Your speaker lesson for today is...

Completely ignore any MAX SPL figures you see published, they are calculated theoretical figures and are completely unattainable. What you want to look for is long term measured SPL and even better if they specify it was done with a broadband noise signal and not a single test tone.

[tylert7]

I Look at sensitivity, wattage, crossover points, voice coil size, type of compression driver. im really interested in the rcf art745a because the crossover point is so low and it looks like it would produce really good/loud mids and highs which is what i need. im stupid but not as stupid as you guys think. max spl is just a easy reference then i let you guys expound on the subject

[Desmorider]

Tyler,
Just realize that the 745a has no high pass setting. Also your ls801's have no high pass outputs. You would need an external crossover or dsp unit to cross the 745's over. A lot of other subwoofer models do have the high pass outputs.

[tylert7]

accourding to you guys i should get etx-18sp subs so im considering it. or i might just spend $100 and get a two way crossover. haha the music store people are gonna hate me

[Desmorider]

The etx-18sp is a very nice sub. It will sound better then your ls801p's, but won't be as loud. Why not take a listen to the new JBL Srx828? Double 18, and weighs in at 145lbs, and can be had for about $1600 each. Get one now, and ad another later. If they live up to their specs, and that's a big if, they should rock some college parties. How much do you have to spend?

[tylert7]

i haven't looked at the srx series to much but i will now.

[Incognito]

I Look at sensitivity, wattage, crossover points, voice coil size, type of compression driver. im stupid but not as stupid as you guys think. max spl is just a easy reference then i let you guys expound on the subject

Sensitivity is not stated for powered speaker specs (& their stated SPL most times are misleading), wattage only tells part of the story, instead of paying attention to available fixed crossover point you should look that something at either has a built in DSP for adjustable crossover points (& slope types) if not at least be sure the internal crossover can be by-passed then use your own DSP. Voice coil size alone can be misleading when it comes to HF as mentioned by light-o-matic, peak SPL shouldn't even be taken into consideration since it is just a marketing decoy to sell their product and not an actual usable spec. Look for specs such as continuous or RMS, if you see program then half it for the actual figure, if you see a spec for SPL & it claims to be measured find out how such as conanski mentioned but also find out if it was measured whole, half etc. space since that too makes a big difference to what the real world performance will truly be.

[tylert7]

the art745a doesn't have dsp so i should be able to use external dsp or a sub with dsp. since so much more power goes to the horn then normal two ways am i correct to think its more effecent with mids/highs since more power goes to the hornand less power/sound goes to the woofer and woofers need more power to get loud cause of their size and horns get louder with less wattage cause they're smaller.

nobody has said much about how much output to expect from the art745a and the number of people i could dj for outside with subs compared to other speakers

also the srx815p is 1500 watts rms. which will produce more mids/highs? again i dont care about low end volume since i use subs most the time

[fueledbymusic]

I don't know, but I feel this thread is amusing. :P

[tylert7]

I don't know, but I feel this thread is amusing. :P
haha i bet your not the only one. i change my mind a lot. and i look for answers that are straight to the point and sometimes thats hard to get on here

[Incognito]

Honestly, to achieve what your tittle suggest I would say you're looking at the wrong grade of gear. You need to step up a couple notches to properly achieve that & you're going to need a decent amount of backing from your wallet to do so with a commercially available solution.

[tylert7]

something like a bunch of array speakers or long throw speakers?

[Incognito]

something like a bunch of array speakers or long throw speakers?

Array speakers could work but I think you should be considering moving up to pro grade passive speakers for a task of this size if you're really trying to achieve the SPL you seem to be looking for in as small a system.

[Desmorider]

something like a bunch of array speakers or long throw speakers?

Tyler,
Where is all of this money coming from all of a sudden. Earlier it seems you were looking at payment plans and things of that nature. Are you sure that your not some young teenager that uses the forum for entertainment purposes? It seems that your interested in every make/model speaker someone brings up. Also it seems strange that you were the only person in the country with the new ev ekx subwoofers. You seemed to love them, and all of a sudden got rid of them. Something just doesn't seem right. Most people on here don't mine helping, i just hooe that your not playing games and wasting peoples time. If you are legit, and need to build a system, you need to go out and demo some setups in the field. Have you thought about a passive rig? Can you give a list of exactly you have now, and the types and size of gigs you plan to do?

[Desmorider]

Array speakers could work but I think you should be considering moving up to pro grade passive speakers for a task of this size if you're really trying to achieve the SPL you seem to be looking for in as small a system.

Earlier on it seemed he was working on pretty limited funds.

[light-o-matic]

:popcorn:

[Incognito]

Tyler,
Where is all of this money coming from all of a sudden. Earlier it seems you were looking at payment plans and things of that nature. Are you sure that your not some young teenager that uses the forum for entertainment purposes? It seems that your interested in every make/model speaker someone brings up. Also it seems strange that you were the only person in the country with the new ev ekx subwoofers. You seemed to love them, and all of a sudden got rid of them. Something just doesn't seem right. Most people on here don't mine helping, i just hooe that your not playing games and wasting peoples time. If you are legit, and need to build a system, you need to go out and demo some setups in the field. Have you thought about a passive rig? Can you give a list of exactly you have now, and the types and size of gigs you plan to do?

Yeah, I kind of got the feeling & posted as such in another thread he is posting in where certain things just aren't adding up (especially with the EV EKX plus the number of speakers he has claimed to of returned) but I figured I'd just give him the benefit of the doubt until such time time it became either revealed or all too obvious.

[Incognito]

If your looking for high SPL but don't have the gear to achieve it, then deceive it with psychoacoustics lol...... http://www.vice.com/read/guy-invented-system-boost-volume-without-pissing-your-neighbours-off-101

[Evil Steve]

i look for answers that are straight to the point and sometimes thats hard to get on here

Not exactly sure what you mean by this.
With a forum like this, many contributors know there are no answers that go straight to the point. Certainly not when trying to answer really vague questions.

There are a lot of questions being asked to provide clarification. You rarely answer them.

Like any public forum,there are certainly enough contributors on this forum who possess enough knowledge to make them dangerous. Those contributors tend to recommend solutions long before the actual problem has been established.

The whole sound system dilemma has been going on for a long time.
The balance of sound quality, sound pressure level, bass capacity, dispersion, expense, ease of setup, and a raft of other considerations, including operator intelligence and skill, pretty much precludes an easy, straightforward answer...

Or did you mean people aren't agreeing with your half-baked ideas quick enough?

[DYM]

Shoutout to DJ Nada for the neg rep.. have not seen that in a while.

[DJ Nada]

Shoutout to DJ Nada for the neg rep.. have not seen that in a while.



Like any public forum,there are certainly enough contributors on this forum who possess enough knowledge to make them dangerous. Those contributors tend to recommend solutions long before the actual problem has been established.


I'm not the only one that thinks it... Nothing personal, you were just giving really bad advice on this occasion.

[DYM]

I'm not the only one that thinks it... Nothing personal, you were just giving really bad advice on this occasion.

I know. I gave a shitty response assuming a low budget/resource pool and not reading the entire post. The rep seemed a little out of place though, no hard feelings.

[light-o-matic]

I called troll forever ago on this one...

[tylert7]

Tyler,
Where is all of this money coming from all of a sudden. Earlier it seems you were looking at payment plans and things of that nature. Are you sure that your not some young teenager that uses the forum for entertainment purposes? It seems that your interested in every make/model speaker someone brings up. Also it seems strange that you were the only person in the country with the new ev ekx subwoofers. You seemed to love them, and all of a sudden got rid of them. Something just doesn't seem right. Most people on here don't mine helping, i just hooe that your not playing games and wasting peoples time. If you are legit, and need to build a system, you need to go out and demo some setups in the field. Have you thought about a passive rig? Can you give a list of exactly you have now, and the types and size of gigs you plan to do?

a conbination of doing gigs and having extra college finanicial aid money

[tylert7]

Not exactly sure what you mean by this.
With a forum like this, many contributors know there are no answers that go straight to the point. Certainly not when trying to answer really vague questions.

There are a lot of questions being asked to provide clarification. You rarely answer them.

Like any public forum,there are certainly enough contributors on this forum who possess enough knowledge to make them dangerous. Those contributors tend to recommend solutions long before the actual problem has been established.

The whole sound system dilemma has been going on for a long time.
The balance of sound quality, sound pressure level, bass capacity, dispersion, expense, ease of setup, and a raft of other considerations, including operator intelligence and skill, pretty much precludes an easy, straightforward answer...

Or did you mean people aren't agreeing with your half-baked ideas quick enough?

i take that back. i was just talking about not receving info on how many people i could dj for with art745a's

[tylert7]

i'll stop making posts on here. i obviously have pissed some people off on here

[Evil Steve]

i'll stop making posts on here. i obviously have pissed some people off on here

Go if you like.
I've enjoyed this thread.
I've found the input to be very informative.
How are you supposed to figure things out if you don't ask questions?
You've managed to shine a light on how complicated sound systems can be.
I don't care if you are a troll. This thread is a good one.

[DJ Nada]

i'll stop making posts on here. i obviously have pissed some people off on here

It's not that. It just seems like you don't really care about the advice you're getting, and are just doing whatever you want anyway.

[ampnation]

For what it's worth, I normally use QSC K10's and had the opportunity a while back to use a pair of Qrx 112/75 as monitors for a live gig when the Yamaha Club 15 monitors I spec'd were rented out from under me (at no additional charge) and was VERY impressed. I have no doubt they would cover more than 2x the audience as my K10's and were so clear and accurate. I've owned SRX712M tops too and I would place them in between the K10s and QRX in all respects but weight and size. The QRX are very heavy and the SRX are very light and compact. The SRXs were powered by a Crown iTech with built in DSP and the QRXs by a QSC RMX2450 using no DSP.

I've never compared the published specs of the QRX and K10 AFAIR(ecall).

[Desmorider]

i'll stop making posts on here. i obviously have pissed some people off on here

Man,
No one is pissed off at you. People want to help you. It's just a little hard to take you serious, when its seems like your being untruthful. Let me ask you a serious question, and I just ask that you answer it honestly. Did you really have the E/V ekx18 subwoofers that haven't been released yet. If you did have them, so be it. If you admit that you lied, then you lied. No biggie. I think that the guys on here will respect you a lot more, and you just move on. Nothing wrong with being excited about new product. The members on here have a bunch of knowledge, and love to help people out. They also have thick skin, and don't get pissed easily.

[tylert7]

someone on here gave me the advice to get ls801's now you guys are saying i should've got etx-18sp's. and i got a pair of elx112p's like all you guys said. i take a lot of your advice. i just also question it. i like to see what the best option would be

i really did have the ekx subs

[Desmorider]

I spoke with you about the ls801's when you first joined the forum. Also gave a link, for a barely used one on craigslist in your area. You said that they were too much money, and stated that you needed to finance or purchase from a company with payment plans. Theirs a bunch of great gear out there. The best thing that you can do for yourself is demo the stuff out in the field. Also possibly rent some items and see if they fit your needs.

[tylert7]

how much does it normally cost to rent gear?

[Desmorider]

GC in my area charges $30/box for qsc K and Kw series. You can get a set of tops and a set of subs for $120. Check with your local stores and sound companies. People charge different rates for different gear. Some sound companies will provide great rates for their "b" system, or if they don't have a gig scheduled on a certain date. Better to have equipment making some money, instead of collecting dust.

[tylert7]

true. i rent out my ts115a's to church's and other groups. and they pay me $40-$50 to rent the pair, stands and a mic