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View Full Version : Smallest existing Traktor controller with pitch slider...?



golem
03-27-2012, 06:44 PM
Hey do you have any idea what might be the smallest controller with professional quality pitch sliders and audio interface / DA conversion...?

S2 is just too big for a backpack. Vestax VCI-100mkII is the smallest I have found that might fill the requirements but still even it is too big and has unnecessary functions.

Traktor has quite functional keyboard shortcuts so all that I would desire from external DJ controller is:

- 2x professional quality pitch sliders
- professional quality audio interface, drivers and DA conversion, 2x stereo outputs (so you really mix with external mixer)
- 4x + and - buttons for pitch bend (take much less space than jog wheels that are not really neccessary
- 2x rotary dials for seeking trough the tune
- 1x rotary dial for browsing new tunes in the menu

That is pretty much all that I need. I have traktor audio 2, and usually I use it but I miss above listed features but I don't want to carry anything extra.

djpenguin
03-27-2012, 07:27 PM
It doesn't have the audio interface, but I'm pretty sure the Kontrol F1 does everything else you listed, and it's pretty small.

I know A&H also make a couple of similarly sized controllers that might suit your needs.

DjAaron
03-27-2012, 09:06 PM
It doesn't have the audio interface, but I'm pretty sure the Kontrol F1 does everything else you listed, and it's pretty small.

I know A&H also make a couple of similarly sized controllers that might suit your needs.

X2

the Kontrol is really small and you can always get 2 if you wanted and it would still take up a small space

DJNR
03-28-2012, 01:09 AM
X2

the Kontrol is really small and you can always get 2 if you wanted and it would still take up a small space

No, it's called the F1. There is no X2.

I hear people DJing only with two Kontrol X1s, which could also be an option if you do not want to wait for the F1 to release.

Phil Noize
03-28-2012, 05:35 AM
Check out the Faderfox controllers. They have no built-in sound interface, but they will fill all of your other requirements. The components are of the highest quality (ALPS pots, sliders buttons & switches), and the controllers are hand built.

I've been rocking a DJ2 for the last couple of years. It gives you the same functionality of a larger controller with platters, as the multi-function encoder knobs at the top of the controller can do all that a platter can do. However, scratching might be a bit difficult with a knob instead of a platter! lol

The DJ3, DL3, FT3 & DX3 are their latest offerings.

http://www.faderfox.de/mark/

Waterbeat
03-28-2012, 06:23 AM
An M-Audio X-session may do the job. It has pitch sliders, but no soundcard. For the sound card, NI's Audio 2 DJ will fit the bill.

DjAaron
03-28-2012, 11:41 AM
No, it's called the F1. There is no X2.

I hear people DJing only with two Kontrol X1s, which could also be an option if you do not want to wait for the F1 to release.

I ment it as like I was saying "times 2" not that I was saying the unit is called a X2. Maybe I shouldn't have made the X a capital lol

antFastic
03-28-2012, 11:57 AM
When you say professional quality pitch faders, do you actually want to use it for beat matching? If so then I would say you need to look at controllers that provide a longer 100mm+ high resolution fader, typically 14 bit and make sure the software you use supports the implementation.

Many controllers have a short 7 bit fader, this is fine for pitch effects and rough beat matching, but the larger increments will have you constantly riding the pitch. Some controllers offer a high res fader that is 60-80mm and while it is an improvement, it is still a bit too short to be useful for this specific purpose.

I guess it comes down to how comfortable you are with the sync function, as to whether or not you need a full length fader. I think most people using controllers just use this fader for effects, but a full length fader would certainly be on my list of must haves.

Phil Noize
03-28-2012, 12:17 PM
The faderfox's muti-function encoder knobs are effectively an endless fader, so they are great for beat matching.

I'm quite comfortable using the sync function, but I have to bring my mix in from other DJs on decks, as well as playing back-to-back sets, so the ability to accurately beat match is absolutely essential.

antFastic
03-28-2012, 12:30 PM
The faderfox's muti-function encoder knobs are effectively an endless fader, so they are great for beat matching.

Yeah I tried this in Serato, using an endless rotary as a fine adjustment in addition to a linear fader for the main, it works but it's not ideal. And I also tried using the rotary on its own but it isn't very practical as you have to keep turning it too many times for the large pitch changes between tracks, you need something quicker to snap into that zone before you fine adjust. So I think a proper full length fader is always going to be the best solution for pitch control.

When you say multi function does each rotary have more than one mode or something? How does this work in a practical sense?

Phil Noize
03-28-2012, 01:39 PM
Yeah, it does these functions ... seek/scratch + list/load + pitch + gain

When in seek mode, you push the button down for scratch functionality. When in list you push down for load. There are two small selector buttons & four LEDs that allow you to select which one you want.

KLH
03-28-2012, 02:50 PM
An M-Audio X-session may do the job. It has pitch sliders, but no soundcard. For the sound card, NI's Audio 2 DJ will fit the bill.
+1. The X-session Pro is probably the most compact controller for Traktor. I've seen these on sale for $50 or less...

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/WFRzKhh4uLNfmMrFhrApV-litlmbxaYqCv7Xtdm-a1o07jb0GmTDNxN8t3ouF5JvS4rv1DJ7nAzCnT7VFi0WtO-EQx03To8pF6DtTwcJK-WUFqcgguAEbEB51Oa_vzVq-rbmF6MCjj903QC6vmyBFKGbNP0C2Gkq2med1sSse5a2fIFpQcf FL4G0rQ

-KLH

ampnation
03-28-2012, 02:59 PM
I tried using the x-session pro with vdj and in the process of trying to map it, got all screwed up. Then I got busy with other things and now I think it's been stolen. ah well... Now I'm wondering, what out there might be similar to the faderfox DJ3 or the x-session pro but pre-mapped for Serato.

The way I envision using this would be, I would feed a single channel of my mixer from the controller and the controller would work on 2-4 Serato decks/samplers. If it is far easier to feed two mixer channels, that's fine too, but I would be using the software to do xfades via the controller.

antFastic
03-28-2012, 04:03 PM
Now I'm wondering, what out there might be similar to the faderfox DJ3 or the x-session pro but pre-mapped for Serato.

The way I envision using this would be, I would feed a single channel of my mixer from the controller and the controller would work on 2-4 Serato decks/samplers. If it is far easier to feed two mixer channels, that's fine too, but I would be using the software to do xfades via the controller.

Serato is desinged to be used with an external mixer, it has no internal mixer in the software so it can't be used this way. If you want to use Serato with a MIDI controller you need one of the supported controllers that can run with either the Intro or Itch versions of Serato.

ampnation
03-28-2012, 04:40 PM
Serato is desinged to be used with an external mixer, it has no internal mixer in the software so it can't be used this way. If you want to use Serato with a MIDI controller you need one of the supported controllers that can run with either the Intro or Itch versions of Serato.

EDIT: This is not correct -->> Thanks. Since I posted that, I did some digging and found the Rane MP25 seems to be able to be mapped to Serato including faders. <<--

EDIT: This isn't correct either, except that I DO own an HD2500 -->> But also in that digging I found I already HAVE a Serato controller and didn't even realize it because when I bought it I wasn't thinking I would go into digital DJ'ing at all. It is the now discontinued Denon DN-HD2500. It has the Serato interface built in. It doesn't have the mixer section but adding the MP25 could accomplish this end goal. For now I'm happy to use my DN-X500 as my mixer like you describe. <<--

So after noting the corrections as pointed out in posts below, I will revise and say, the low cost option is a used MP4 mixer -- 1u, rackmount mixer with the HD2500, combined street price around $800 used -- both are discontinued products.

EDIT: Obviously this is more of a mixing controller. Nothing a serious scratch/turntablist would consider.

djpenguin
03-28-2012, 05:08 PM
Thanks. Since I posted that, I did some digging and found the Rane MP25 seems to be able to be mapped to Serato including faders.

But also in that digging I found I already HAVE a Serato controller and didn't even realize it because when I bought it I wasn't thinking I would go into digital DJ'ing at all. It is the now discontinued Denon DN-HD2500. It has the Serato interface built in. It doesn't have the mixer section but adding the MP25 could accomplish this end goal. For now I'm happy to use my DN-X500 as my mixer like you describe.

For anyone else interested in this as a budget way to get into full version Serato Scratch Live, the HD2500 is being sold used on ebay and craigslist for about $350 give or take which is about the same as SL2 boxes and you get a pretty robust controller with a built in 40 GB hard drive, ability to use USB mass storage devices, and standard controller functions. Used X500's go for about $200, so one could have a full Serato rackmount DJ kit for $550ish plus laptop, cables and rack.

EDIT: Obviously this is more of a mixing controller. Nothing a serious scratch/turntablist would consider.

You still need an interface (SL-1, SL-2, SL-3, SL-4) to use SSL with the DN-HD2500. SSL will not work without an interface or authorized Rane mixer (TTM-57, sixty-one, sixty-two, sixty-eight, MP4) The MP25 has a USB audio interface, but it is not set up to work with SSL.

Jason Cerna
03-28-2012, 05:20 PM
iphone running touch osc with a native instruments audio 2 dj interface. :)

antFastic
03-28-2012, 05:42 PM
Thanks. Since I posted that, I did some digging and found the Rane MP25 seems to be able to be mapped to Serato including faders.

Video SL yes for control over the video mixer but SSL no as stated before, SSL needs an external mixer there is no other option.

As the penguin said, you need a rane interface or certified mixer, the DN-HD2500 is a MIDI controller that has native capability in SSL, the sound interface doesn't unlock SSL.

Thread is derailing.. can we stick to the OPs topic?

ampnation
03-28-2012, 06:29 PM
djpenguin and antFastic, Thanks. details details details... LOL

I was misled in both cases. I see now the HD2500 doesn't have an SL box built in :( and will edit the orig to reflect this.
I was misled by a couple of things... first off the Serato website has instructions for using the HD2500 with Serato and doesn't mention using an SL box ANYWHERE... It does say you need to plug the HD2500 into an "available USB port" but fails to mention that it means a port on an SL1, SL2, SL3 or SL4. You would think that would be important information.

http://serato.com/articles/scratchlive/1999/how-to-use-the-denon-dn-hd2500-with-scratch-live

The other thing that led me to believe the hardware was built into the HD2500 was mention of it being a "native" Serato controller which apparently only was referring to midi mappings.

And yes, it was video SL, a youtube video, where I saw the MP25 controlling faders.


http://youtu.be/bMwySLsnJMc

KLH
03-28-2012, 08:13 PM
iphone running touch osc with a native instruments audio 2 dj interface. :)
... and JC wins... but I'm not sure if the OP is still reading this thread.

-KLH

DJ Highline
03-28-2012, 10:53 PM
Sounds like you might want to wait for the Behringer CMD units to come out in a couple of months... Or if the jog wheels are not a deal breaker, the Denon SC2000 might fit your taste very nicely...

antFastic
03-29-2012, 07:14 AM
djpenguin and antFastic, Thanks. details details details... LOL

I was misled in both cases. I see now the HD2500 doesn't have an SL box built in :( and will edit the orig to reflect this.
I was misled by a couple of things... first off the Serato website has instructions for using the HD2500 with Serato and doesn't mention using an SL box ANYWHERE... It does say you need to plug the HD2500 into an "available USB port" but fails to mention that it means a port on an SL1, SL2, SL3 or SL4. You would think that would be important information.

http://serato.com/articles/scratchlive/1999/how-to-use-the-denon-dn-hd2500-with-scratch-live

The other thing that led me to believe the hardware was built into the HD2500 was mention of it being a "native" Serato controller which apparently only was referring to midi mappings.

And yes, it was video SL, a youtube video, where I saw the MP25 controlling faders.

The details aren't misleading at all, when you read the information about the sound interface itself, it is pretty clear this part is not going to unlock Serato. And it clearly states at the very top of the link you gave, "To use Denon DN-HD2500 with Scratch Live, you will need 2 available USB ports." You have to ask yourself, why? The answer is obvious, isn't it?

I think details are pretty important when you are giving advice, to say the least.

ampnation
03-29-2012, 05:50 PM
The details aren't misleading at all, when you read the information about the sound interface itself, it is pretty clear this part is not going to unlock Serato. And it clearly states at the very top of the link you gave, "To use Denon DN-HD2500 with Scratch Live, you will need 2 available USB ports." You have to ask yourself, why? The answer is obvious, isn't it?

I think details are pretty important when you are giving advice, to say the least.


Setup


Start Scratch Live and switch both decks to internal mode.
Turn on the Denon DN-HC4500. It will automatically be in PC link mode.
You will now be able to control Scratch Live with your Denon DN-HC4500!



You have a valid point, and yes I missed the details. mea culpa.
I suppose I should have posted this as a question instead of a statement, along the lines of, "Am I right?"

And now that you point that out about the USB ports I see another clue... Step 1 above says to switch both decks to internal mode before turning on the Denon which means there is already a Serato interface box attached. I'm pretty sure the document is the one they include in the package when you buy one of the SL boxes which means the person reading it already has a box and isn't concerned about how to get the software unlocked into full operating mode.

Anyway, I'm glad to be made aware of the now discontinued MP4. It seems that makes a good rackmount 2 channel interface/mixer. So now I'm wondering, if I were using the MP4, could I also use the HD2500 with each having their respective functions mapped to Serato? It would seem the answer is yes considering I've seen people with setups where they have what seem to be multiple controllers for various functions hooked up, but that's from casual observation.

There are two reasons why I'm investigating this route. I like as much of my equipment to be rackmounted if possible. While it is feasible to rackmount one of the Serato/Rane mixers, they would take way more than 1u leaving me no room for my controller and planned wireless mic receivers. Plus the cost is much less putting it in the realm of what is feasible for my loose business plan at this point. Hopefully in the future, they'll come out with another rackmount interface.