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Mystic
02-05-2012, 05:04 PM
So for many years now I've worked with more pop/rock/industrial style music and am now starting to move into EDM because frankly, rock music has been boring me lately. I've found I've been running into some walls though and it brings me to a very important question:

What is the deciding factor in which sounds you use?

I've got a lot of solid material in my head, the problem now has become getting it from in my head and into the DAW the way I hear it in my mind.

Working with industrial and even in some of the rock I've done, I've used a lot of synths both software and hardware driven, but overall, you always kind of knew where to go with sound and what you were going to use to get that sound. With EDM, it's like an overwhelming process because there is an infinite number of VSTs and samples out there to choose from. I'm ranging around close to 1TB in EDM samples just from the collection I've used for industrial in the past due to VSTs I've bought over the years. Obviously I don't want to sit down and start going through them one by one to figure out which sounds I want to use. There has to be a simpler, more productive way to make this process easier.

Also, another issue with this same topic is one that I didn't need to worry about as much working with samples in the past: using the same sounds. Obviously, stock sounds would be the lazy and uncreative way to go, but there are programs out there, Reason for instance, that have a certain sound of their own that when you hear it you can go, "Well, they are using Reason" even when they are heavily edited because you're still basing it 95% of the time off stock soundbanks. Obviously you have the option to move away from stock soundbanks, but then you run into the first problem I mentioned.

See the trend here?

drumpusher
02-05-2012, 05:47 PM
Don't use stock sounds so. Unless they are the go to 808/909 variety. Tons of one shots and VSTs out there to be mangled with processing and synthesis. :P

Mystic
02-05-2012, 05:58 PM
I should rephrase some of that.

Stock sounds without editing and processing would simply be lazy, but don't most people use the stock soundbanks that come with the program and just do a lot of changing within the sounds they use from it?

Tons of VSTs seems to be my biggest hurdle. I have too many sounds to look through and it's become crazy overwhelming when I've got a sound in my head and begin trying to find something I can edit into what I hear in my mind.

drumpusher
02-05-2012, 06:34 PM
You could use the same argument for an analogue dude who for example just possessed a TR909 and a Monopoly. He'd have to use stock sounds. Sounds like a moot point to me. :shrug:

Mystic
02-05-2012, 08:33 PM
That's true as well. I'm just trying to gain a better grasp on how to streamline finding samples and sounds to use in a song.

Jason Cerna
02-05-2012, 09:12 PM
might get some ideas from this old article.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr99/articles/20tips.htm

thehadgi
02-05-2012, 11:30 PM
I found for me it's about 50% striving to achieve a 'certain' sound, and 50% stumbling upon various things that work and mistakes that ended up being kind of cool. Looking back the stuff that has made me better are all the times I sat down and just straight out re-created entire songs, or covers. I just listened, and recreated. I would do that every now and then while working on some tidbits of my own, and somehow both piled up to me learning techniques used by pros and my own variation of things. The closest feeling I can think of as to how I got where I am is being thrown into the water and having no idea how to swim. I try to remember what I've been taught or seen, but also am panicking and stumbling about in the water, and somehow after just keeping at it I developed a workflow that gets stuff from my mind into the speakers.

Apart from just re-creating existing tracks, because that can get boring, maybe get one cool loop or line/melody you really like, and then copy everything else from an existing son you like on top of the melody. Make a cool arp or melody, and then just copy all the percussion and structure from a song you know to the comp. That way you feel out your own sound, but get to hear it in an EDM context without worrying about every aspect of production all at once

Ignotus
02-06-2012, 12:40 AM
i used to mod the preset sounds (i use reason), i thought that was the best method, but after long trial and error, i learned building patches from scratch really was the best method

*G*.~JerryMoon
02-06-2012, 11:12 AM
I dont usually use the preset sounds I also agree with Jaosn Cernas post the Synth Secrets journals are bomb but I use what ever VSTs I find and reset the program (u can usually find that in the options menu) but I start with a simple sine or saw and build from there then I throw some plugins onto the sounds and master them from there I always find its easiest to make the sound u want when u start with nothing and build it up it takes a lot of messing around but its worth it :)

I'd also suggest looking up tutorials specific to your software I've learned a lot of cool techniques that way.

mostapha
02-06-2012, 01:09 PM
What has been working for me is to start with the simplest thing you have, delve into it, and figure out what happens when you hit a wall. For me, the simplest thing I have (that I enjoy working with) is Maschine's sampler device. It's a basic VA synth tht plays any audio file instead of having an oscillator. And it comes with some sin, triangle, and square waves. It was basically trivial to re-create a 303 sound. And even things like dubstep wobbles are possible.

I have Logic and all it's synths, Reason, some NI and other soft synths...and taking away a lot of it and going back to basics helped immensely. Plus, I actually get to turn knobs this way.

Sometimes, constraints are the best teaching devices.

Giran
02-06-2012, 03:27 PM
I found for me it's about 50% striving to achieve a 'certain' sound, and 50% stumbling upon various things that work and mistakes that ended up being kind of cool. Looking back the stuff that has made me better are all the times I sat down and just straight out re-created entire songs, or covers. I just listened, and recreated. I would do that every now and then while working on some tidbits of my own, and somehow both piled up to me learning techniques used by pros and my own variation of things. The closest feeling I can think of as to how I got where I am is being thrown into the water and having no idea how to swim. I try to remember what I've been taught or seen, but also am panicking and stumbling about in the water, and somehow after just keeping at it I developed a workflow that gets stuff from my mind into the speakers.

Apart from just re-creating existing tracks, because that can get boring, maybe get one cool loop or line/melody you really like, and then copy everything else from an existing son you like on top of the melody. Make a cool arp or melody, and then just copy all the percussion and structure from a song you know to the comp. That way you feel out your own sound, but get to hear it in an EDM context without worrying about every aspect of production all at once


Agreed.

Mystic, from a personal/professional stance, I think you're just wasting time with collecting samples and VSTi's.
Reason being is that alot of EDM producers these days (especially the veteran professionals) stick to a handful of plugins and master them. They know the inside/outside, what oscillator to choose and how to modulate certain parameters etc. Yes, it's definitely handy to have a variety of plugins as some are better than others, but if you master just a few, you wouldn't need to use anything more. :tup:

I personally find myself using Sylenth1/Massive as my main soft synths these days. I'm not the best person when it comes to sound design, but I definitely can tweak a patch to make it sound the way I want. It's all about listening carefully to a particular sound you want to emulate, research common production techniques in that genre, and then simply experimenting until you get the desired result. :D
For example, alot of dubstep basslines either have 3-4 layered synths or just one synth sent to 4 different channels and modified in specific frequency bands with FX units on each.
If you are particularly lazy (like myself), you can buy a soundbank for your plugin and use/tweak whichever sounds you like. :P

On a side note, I used to use Reason 4 until 2 years ago. Everyone says their is a certain "reason" sound and personally I don't think it's got to do with the stock refills. If anything I think it's the poor EQ units (which still isn't fixed...) and sound engine (probably better than Reason 4). :mad:

ezelkow1
02-06-2012, 03:42 PM
Another one for limiting yourself. I found myself with way too much GAS and so my synth collection exploded for a while. Now in my vst dir I have everything narrowed down to a 'synths-favorite' folder that has my 4-5 main synths that I really like, and everything else gets stashed in another dir, so if I know there is specifically something I want to do that my main ones cant Im going to have to go searching it out specifically instead of just having them lumped together with everything else. Same goes for effects, recently went through and cleaned out all the cruft, narrowing down each category to 1-4 effects, e.g. few reverbs, few delays, few distortions etc. Helps with just picking out the one you want quickly without having to hem and haw over it

I also found the sound search to be limiting since starting something out I would focus way too much on getting that sound, and less on what the sound should be doing. So now I usually throw in something quick n easy like sylenth, browse through a bank to find a generic sound sort of similar to what Im aiming for, something with a similar timbre, adjust envelopes to suit for the length, then lay down the midi first. Then later go back and actually find the sound I want

Mystic
02-06-2012, 05:33 PM
Mystic, from a personal/professional stance, I think you're just wasting time with collecting samples and VSTi's.
Keep in mind I use those for other projects in other genres, so they are getting used, this is just a whole new style for me. :)

I think I might update my NI and start there.

Giran
02-06-2012, 05:45 PM
Keep in mind I use those for other projects in other genres, so they are getting used, this is just a whole new style for me. :)

I think I might update my NI and start there.

Fair enough, my apologies! I thought you were collecting VSTi's for the sake of learning a new genre. :)

thehadgi
02-06-2012, 05:55 PM
I think too many producers sound alike not because of the sample/drums/stock presets they use, but because they don't use them in creative and new ways. Brostep producers don't sound all the same because of their drum samples or choice in synths, they sound the same because they write music the same way skrillex and the other big dogs do it.

For every lady gaga there are a thousand crappy blonde chicks that have horse faces that try to be weird enough to get on gaga's level and sing professionally. But they won't get there, because the world doesn't need another gaga (doesn't need *a* gaga to be exact... heh). And it's not because these dumb chicks are using a different instrument that gaga, it's because they aren't using the same instrument in a new way that's not copying an already popular artist.

That's the end of my rant that really doesn't have anything to do with mystic, but just making it known that as always, it's not what you have, it's how you use it.

thehadgi
02-02-2013, 12:06 PM
any updates mystic? you find your zen yet? :)

xyloft
02-02-2013, 12:21 PM
I found for me it's about 50% striving to achieve a 'certain' sound, and 50% stumbling upon various things that work and mistakes that ended up being kind of cool.

most of my stuff is "accidental" i wish i knew enough about sound design to make what i hear in myt head from scratch, but i'm just not there yet.

but typcailly there is a type (bass, wobble, lead, polyphonic, etc) of sound i'm looking for and will go through the presets in absynth or massive under those headings. sometimes while looking for a good bass, i find a great lead.

Mystic
02-02-2013, 11:15 PM
I've actually been delayed a bit on the EDM project because being a father takes up a lot of time. However, I've been spending more time in Reason 6.5 lately when I am working on the EDM stuff and really getting into the sound design aspect which has helped a lot with creativity. I also came to the conclusion that I don't care if people can pinpoint random stock sounds if I'm happy with the end result (which is rare).

Right now my main focus in studio has been on things that make me immediate money to pay the bills while messing with ideas and working on a mainstream band oriented project.

Ignotus
02-02-2013, 11:49 PM
If you got any questions man, lemme know, i have started to post some samples of my sound design in this thread :)

http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?17532-Reason-Questions-Thread&highlight=reason+question

Hygro
02-04-2013, 03:13 PM
+1 more for KISS (keep it simple stupid). I do most of my work with Logic ES2, Logic EXS24, and Logic Ultrabeat. I have a patch that does a complete reset on the ES2 so i build em all from scratch. With the EXS24 I use a combination of stock samples and samples I specifically wanted or created for deliberate reasons. Ultrabeat is just a convenient drum machine and it has enough presets to do some good percussion lines.

After that, I made sure to learn all the stock plugins over a couple of years. I can make most of the sounds I want. If I can't it's because I don't know how, as it's totally doable once I learn.

When I do an Indaba remix I usually sample the drums and use them for other projects :teef:

Mystic
02-04-2013, 11:40 PM
I've done quite a few remixes now but I've mainly been using some very well designed presets and samples. It worked and sounded fantastic. The important people liked them at least which is good for business for me. :)