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cheforee
03-15-2012, 11:59 PM
just wondering what's best for a basic amp rack set up for 2 subs and 2 full ranges

i assume an amp and crossover but what else would add to the quality of the sound ?

unsafe8989
03-16-2012, 12:11 AM
My simple Rack not the best gear in the world but it works well.
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j471/unsafe8989/20120225_220441.jpg

Ntertainment
03-16-2012, 12:34 AM
does your rack have carpet?

windspeed36
03-16-2012, 12:50 AM
Depends how advanced you are. Some people - especially in the US like to use power conditioners to keep a constant flow to their equipment so not to generate excess noise in their output. I hire out equipment to DJ's consisting of just a crossover, dual 31 band EQ and an optional compressor. The graphics EQ only really works well if you know how to use it. The 1 and 2RU graphics EQ's aren't very good in terms of being able to adjust between a 1dB increase and 6dB because the sliders are so damn tiny. Another option is a driverack/DSP. Sorta does everything in the one box, however they're somewhat fiddly and take a while to setup.

Don't bother with those Behringer Sonic Maximizers - 3D sound generation or any of that shit.

Also I know some people - especially DJ's often have a 19" rackmount 1 or 2RU mixer (live sound as opposed to say a DB2) instead of having an external one.

unsafe8989
03-16-2012, 01:01 AM
does your rack have carpet?

Yes indeed.

Incognito
03-16-2012, 01:22 AM
just wondering what's best for a basic amp rack set up for 2 subs and 2 full ranges

i assume an amp and crossover but what else would add to the quality of the sound ?
A decent entry level DSP, this will save you from starting out with a crossover, then having to invest in an eq, then investing in a compressor, limiter, then investing in this, that & the other. Just get a decent basic DSP to keep everything simple & clean, no need to have to get the more advanced more complexed DSP options available if you're not going to use all of the features but if you do then it could be something you can grow into in the future. See if you can find a deal on something like a BBE DS-24 or the like.

andythemusician
03-16-2012, 09:33 AM
Yeah, usually something like:
Graphic EQ
2ch compressor/limiter
Crossover
Top amp
Sub amp

Obviously this changes if you have a DSP, which throws the GEQ, comp/lim and crossover into the one rack space. Also changes if you are using more powerful amps and squeezing onto one amp, are bi-amping, are using powered gear (no amps in the rack in that case), and so on.

audiopyle
03-16-2012, 11:35 AM
One of these should do it:

http://www.powersoft-audio.com/images/banners/banner_m50q_t.jpg

http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/products/m-series-tour/m50q.html

cheforee
03-16-2012, 02:35 PM
what does the BBE DS-24 do exactly ? if i get this should i even bother getting an eq ?

and can i use the BBE DS-24 with my current crossover

thanx for all your suggestions this is great feedback

ampnation
03-16-2012, 02:51 PM
what does the BBE DS-24 do exactly ? if i get this should i even bother getting an eq ?

and can i use the BBE DS-24 with my current crossover

thanx for all your suggestions this is great feedback

http://www.bbesound.com/products/speaker-management/ds24.aspx
You could use it with your crossover... You could set the DS24 to make your mixer flat at output, and use the GEQ to adjust for the modalities of a given venue or to add the smiley face curve favored by many DJ's

Mahatma Coat
03-16-2012, 03:53 PM
Not all ample racks come with carpet, some are shaved.

ampnation
03-16-2012, 04:42 PM
Since this has already taken a sharp turn toward innuendo city...

here's my list for a good rack...

No carpet. However, if there is carpet, it is for UNDER the rack unless you prefer hardwood. If there is carpet, virgin wool carpet is nice. Shag carpet is a definite no.
I should be able to slide my equipment in and pull it out easily -- close tolerances are preferred.
Slant top
Easy access
Properly configured, a rack will allow you to turn everything inside on with the touch of a button


Once you've tweaked the rack, you should be able to feel the music shake your entire body and all parties will leave with a smile on their face, feeling satisfied.

Things to avoid...

Racks that have had multiple users
Worn hardware
Racks that exceed the load capacity of your vehicle


One last note... when you find a good rack and have it properly configured, be careful -- don't let someone come along and steal it.

Incognito
03-16-2012, 04:52 PM
Since this has already taken a sharp turn toward innuendo city...

here's my list for a good rack...

No carpet. However, if there is carpet, it is for UNDER the rack unless you prefer hardwood. If there is carpet, virgin wool carpet is nice. Shag carpet is a definite no.
I should be able to slide my equipment in and pull it out easily -- close tolerances are preferred.
Slant top
Easy access
Properly configured, a rack will allow you to turn everything inside on with the touch of a button


Once you've tweaked the rack, you should be able to feel the music shake your entire body and all parties will leave with a smile on their face, feeling satisfied.

Things to avoid...

Racks that have had multiple users
Worn hardware
Racks that exceed the load capacity of your vehicle


One last note... when you find a good rack and have it properly configured, be careful -- don't let someone come along and steal it.
http://www.guzer.com/pictures/walrus-lol.jpg

cheforee
03-17-2012, 01:32 AM
so if the BBE DS-24 is a crossover as well are there advantages to having 2 crossovers hooked up in series ?

djscrizzle
03-17-2012, 03:00 AM
You wouldn't see any benefits by cascading crossovers; You'd take the signal cable from the crossover to the first amp, then you'll plug another cable into the amp's (each channel) second parallel input jack, to the next amp in the line in the rack...

Breakin' up a group of several amps into separate racks can be done by either a crossover in a separate processing rack before the amp racks and doing a rack panel with Y splits in one of them, or a crossover in each rack.

monomer
03-17-2012, 08:09 PM
Furman's are a waste of $$ They do not "condition" anything. It's a handy power strip in a rack format; Amps should NOT be plugged into. True power "conditioners" are much more $$ and do not really help much, a proper distro would be a better investment.

I like SKB rolling racks, currently in the process of getting atleast a 6ru to go with my 4ru, it's just a bitch they have no rear rack rails.

Thats why m shocks rack and my 4ru (along with an rmx2450) is up forsale here. Going lighter, smaller and easier for myself (just ME) to setup and run, as I'm a one man show

monomer
03-17-2012, 08:13 PM
If you're really looking to upgrade to a DSP, go DR260 if you can afford it. Better yet, an ashly.

The DS line is very limited (but much better then you have) The 260 is better all-around. Mostly in he limiting, which is a HUGE deal for me (damn DJ's) and might not be a big issue for you.

ampnation
03-17-2012, 09:49 PM
The only time I can see two crossovers being needed, and this is a stretch, is if you have two crossovers with only two bands each but you're running subs and bi-amping tops. then you would crossover the full range signal into subs and tops with the first crossover and crossover the top signal into mid-range and high frequency with the 2nd crossover. Of course if one has a three band crossover, it isn't needed even then. Depending on the crossovers, it might not even be possible to do three bands with two, two band crossovers depending on the available frequencies for crossover.

If you're just using the crossover to separate tops and subs, you would only use one crossover, period.

Coronaoperator
03-22-2012, 05:46 PM
My simple Rack not the best gear in the world but it works well.
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j471/unsafe8989/20120225_220441.jpg


Having spaces between your gear may seem like a good idea but can create thermo shorts (front fans drawing in waste heat from rear of amplifier) actually leading to higher amp temperatures.

This (http://www.middleatlantic.com/pdf/ThermalManagement.pdf) article (page 16) explains why.

unsafe8989
03-22-2012, 07:14 PM
Having spaces between your gear may seem like a good idea but can create thermo shorts (front fans drawing in waste heat from rear of amplifier) actually leading to higher amp temperatures.

This (http://www.middleatlantic.com/pdf/ThermalManagement.pdf) article (page 16) explains why.

Thanks alot man. I have kinda noticed That the amps were actually a bit hotter.

Incognito
03-22-2012, 09:19 PM
Having spaces between your gear may seem like a good idea but can create thermo shorts (front fans drawing in waste heat from rear of amplifier) actually leading to higher amp temperatures.

This (http://www.middleatlantic.com/pdf/ThermalManagement.pdf) article (page 16) explains why.

Good point, the same reason why you shouldn't mix certain kinds of amps in the same amp rack, some blow back to front while other blow front to back (thus while one amp is expelling hot air the other amp will be drawing that same hot air in). I had this issue when I was making my transition from racks of Crown Macrotech amps to racks of QSC EX & MXa amps a number of years ago, I had to keep these amps in seperate racks to prevent this from happening.

Phil Lewandowski
03-23-2012, 03:03 PM
Hey Kevin, How have you been? Hope all is well!


Furman's are a waste of $$ They do not "condition" anything. It's a handy power strip in a rack format; Amps should NOT be plugged into. True power "conditioners" are much more $$ and do not really help much, a proper distro would be a better investment.



I will +1/2 on the Furman, and clarify that ultimately the basic Furman's are a glorified rackmount power strip, and having a basic voltage readout like that is convenient. So if you can get a good price on one, go ahead. But I am sure there are other places to look to find one or both those functions cheaper. (Also do not plug your power amps into any sort of Furman or the like. Amps go straight to the power source as short as power runs as possible.)




If you're really looking to upgrade to a DSP, go DR260 if you can afford it. Better yet, an ashly.

The DS line is very limited (but much better then you have) The 260 is better all-around. Mostly in he limiting, which is a HUGE deal for me (damn DJ's) and might not be a big issue for you.


Also, in my opinion, If you want something over a basic DSP I would skip over the DR260, and go the Sabine NAV series. Very comparable price but a better GUI and doesn't have all the other near useless stuff that the DR series has that unnecessarily pushes up the price. (The limiters in the DR260 aren't great either, and for the matter most DSP's in the under $1500 range don't have great limiters. Best way to get good limiters is to use Crown iTech amps, amazing thermal and mechanical limiters built into the DSP in them.)

In my opinion, the best value DSP is still the BBE DS24, and the Sabine NAV along with the Ashley offerings are near the top in entry level pro DSP's for under $1000.


~Phil