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DjDisArm
12-17-2013, 11:55 AM
i usually scroll down my songs according to BPM's but since i've been introduced to mixing in key... my song selection isn't as fast as i'd like.. i usually let it go a verse or two before i switch but is there a way to search for songs or is it something that comes naturally?

kick6
12-17-2013, 02:11 PM
I'm guessing you're using serato?

allensmusic
12-17-2013, 02:24 PM
it usually comes naturally to me, but sometimes I draw a blank and it is a huge struggle to just look through a list and pick a song.

hopefully you will just develop an ear and memory for what will work together.

DjDisArm
12-17-2013, 02:53 PM
I'm guessing you're using serato?

two 1200's and and a 57 sir. :)

Jimanee
12-18-2013, 04:35 AM
I'm one of the biggest advocator of mixing in key on DJF, but I wouldn't let it slow down my song selection.

It doesn't have to be harmonically compatible to be the song that should follow.

When I want to mix harmonically and quickly, I usually prepare flows of 2-4 songs and bang that out when I play the "first" song of them.

disparate
12-18-2013, 04:48 AM
Usually just comes naturally to me through lots of practice. I have good days and bad days but most of the time the next track I pick sounds good with the current one.

Just remember harmonic mixing is a tool in your box that sometimes comes in useful, not the main thing that should dictate your music choice.

sense
12-18-2013, 06:37 PM
I usually prepare flows of 2-4 songs and bang that out when I play the "first" song of them.
I use this same technique works well:tup:

Adzm00
12-19-2013, 08:34 AM
I'm one of the biggest advocator of mixing in key on DJF, but I wouldn't let it slow down my song selection.



I am basically anti Jimanee, anti-keying or BPMing your tracks and chosing your next track that way.

What I do, is play a track, and think what track I have that would mix nicely with it and take the mix towards the way I want to go with it.

What I have found is those using laptops have a big problem doing this. And I think the reason for it is because you are too quickly and easily distracted by the list of tracks in front of you.

Jimanee
12-19-2013, 09:41 AM
What I do, is play a track, and think what track I have that would mix nicely with it and take the mix towards the way I want to go with it.



Well you see I do this too and then I check my list of mixouts for alternatives because the brain can only store so much, sometimes I will then also look at lists either ordered by BPM or Key code see if something jumps out of leftfield.

Then I re-evaluate the potentials based on any requests I want to play, it's good to think ahead.

I find this approach selects better music, makes for better nights, than just banging out the first thought that comes into your head :P

DJ Highline
12-22-2013, 10:28 AM
I'm one of the biggest advocator of mixing in key on DJF, but I wouldn't let it slow down my song selection.

It doesn't have to be harmonically compatible to be the song that should follow.

When I want to mix harmonically and quickly, I usually prepare flows of 2-4 songs and bang that out when I play the "first" song of them.

I agree that the right song to played next doesn't have to be harmonic or even the right BPM....its just a feeling youget from reading the crowd and experience.

As far as preparing a flow of 2 -4 songs, I can appreciate that, but I think it leads to predictability.

Jimanee
12-22-2013, 11:05 AM
As far as preparing a flow of 2 -4 songs, I can appreciate that, but I think it leads to predictability.

It sure can, these days I prep a cluster of eight songs and play usually just 2 of them, then do something different next time.

DJ Nada
12-25-2013, 11:20 AM
As far as preparing a flow of 2 -4 songs, I can appreciate that, but I think it leads to predictability.

It's good to have some combos that work stored in your head. Sometimes I'll get stuck looking for that next song, and when there's 40 seconds left on the current track, it's good to know something that WILL work well. Some songs just flow together so well, it just makes sense to play them together, because anything else would be a worse transition.
I'm all about spontaneity and mixing in the moment, but sometimes you need a failsafe for when you lose the flow.

Jimanee
12-26-2013, 05:41 AM
It's good to have some combos that work stored in your head. Sometimes I'll get stuck looking for that next song, and when there's 40 seconds left on the current track, it's good to know something that WILL work well. Some songs just flow together so well, it just makes sense to play them together, because anything else would be a worse transition.
I'm all about spontaneity and mixing in the moment, but sometimes you need a failsafe for when you lose the flow.


^^ You can tell Nada plays out a lot

dj daywalker
12-26-2013, 06:55 PM
You have to organize your music. Arrange in folders by bpm or genre THEN sort by key

Vernski
12-30-2013, 05:11 AM
I'm not sure what you're using, but when I organise my tracks quickly on Virtual DJ - I Click the BPM column and it sorts it, then I click the key column and all the tracks are organised into descending/ascending BPM and then grouped by key.

BTW - I've never used this for live mixing ( Haven't live mixed yet;)), but this way does help me quickly find tracks that go well together.

With regards to Adzm's method, it's something to aspire to. To be able to confidently flow through your library is liberating way to mix, but I think something like that does come with experience and that is something Adzm does have plenty of.:tup:

JackStalk
12-30-2013, 10:51 AM
It also helps (depending on your style and genre you play) to periodically trim down your library and playlists. I usually have a maximum 100 songs on a single playlist and if I feel like I'm spending too much time scrolling I'll cut out tracks that have a low play count or just move them to a different playlist. Less is more, I can feel confident and easily navigate a list of streamlined tracks that I know will all work in a given scenario. The search button is pretty awesome too because I can just call upon any track I can think of at will, which was the biggest convenience when upgrading from CDs to digital.

M!TCH
12-31-2013, 03:53 PM
Knowing your music inside and out. I have over 1,500 songs that are specific to the "EDM" scene and I make damn sure I spend time rating and commenting on tracks when they are purchased so it doesn't end up getting a backlog. The fastest way is knowing your tracks and when you pick one having an idea of what would go great with it.

Sigma
12-31-2013, 05:27 PM
In a club situation, organising your music by BPM/key/whatever and running through it is fucking bullshit. Mixing by numbers. All that does is make life easy for you at the detriment of pretty much everything else.

dj daywalker
12-31-2013, 06:47 PM
It is possible to mix in key AND not blindly choose the next track

Jimanee
01-01-2014, 05:18 PM
In a club situation, organising your music by BPM/key/whatever and running through it is fucking bullshit. Mixing by numbers. All that does is make life easy for you at the detriment of pretty much everything else.

Says you, when was the last time you tried it in a club? :P

Sigma
01-02-2014, 01:59 PM
175 years ago!

I stand by what I said though. If you are organising your songs in order based on those criteria, the next track you drop may not be the best track in terms of what would get the best reaction. That stuff is more important with a pre-recorded mix than in a club situation IMO.

DJ_Apex
01-06-2014, 08:30 PM
What I find is that when I try to sort by bpm, I get a huge list of tracks that, even within a certain genre, style, etc, is all within range of mixing. So it takes a long time to sort through all those tracks and figure out which ones are similar harmonically, mood-wise, etc. I'm definitely not going to hate on someone who does a quick-sort by bpm to find a track when they have 30 seconds to mix (guilty) but if "Sort by BPM->find most appropriate track->choose mix/blend style is your default, than you lack creativity. A DJ should know their tracks enough to be able to hear a potential mix (or more) without a memory cue, and I think a lot of the digital organizing is inhibiting creativity.

Jimanee
01-07-2014, 05:36 AM
I stand by what I said though. If you are organising your songs in order based on those criteria, the next track you drop may not be the best track in terms of what would get the best reaction. That stuff is more important with a pre-recorded mix than in a club situation IMO.


I'm definitely not going to hate on someone who does a quick-sort by bpm to find a track when they have 30 seconds to mix (guilty) but if "Sort by BPM->find most appropriate track->choose mix/blend style is your default, than you lack creativity. A DJ should know their tracks enough to be able to hear a potential mix (or more) without a memory cue, and I think a lot of the digital organizing is inhibiting creativity.

Now I'm going to be nice, because I know what you guys mean and are trying to say. And I agree, in an ideal world all DJs play the music they love and know that music inside out.

But in many of my real world gigs that's not the situation, I play lots of requests, I mix them, it's a collaborative effort with me and the audience. I DJ a lot of unfamiliar songs, have to choose quickly from thousands of songs, I do this for hours and I can literally kill the night
with one bad mix. To suggest that I not use BPM and Key info would be as impractical as driving a bus load of people into London with no map or Satnav.

I do realise that I've kind of missed everybody's point :freak:

So I would like to add, that I've have really enjoyed using Rapid Evolution 2, I have found so so many great mixes using it's info and as it's stored ALL my moments of inspiration, it's the best "map" through my tunes.

I would say it's enhanced my creativity and is the solution to large digital collections.

Sigma
01-07-2014, 06:34 AM
All I mean is this: -

If I'm making a mixtape, I pay more attention to the technical side. I still want the tunes to be good, of course, but I want the mix to be seamless and technical as well, so it covers all the bases.

If I'm DJing in a club and I play a track that the crowd love, I will start to think of the next track, but that will be based on "OK, so if they love this, then I'll play this next!". Using other tools to decide for you - or to do at least some of the decision making - might not lead to you playing the best track next, because those tools are designed to make mixing easier - they're not an aid or alternative to picking great tracks.

TCMuc
01-07-2014, 06:55 AM
Using other tools to decide for you - or to do at least some of the decision making - might not lead to you playing the best track next, because those tools are designed to make mixing easier - they're not an aid or alternative to picking great tracks.

^^Exactly this.


And not only does this ptentially hurt individual sets, but could also lead lead to sets in general becoming more generic...

Everybody has access to the same music, and people who play more mainstream music usually rely on some kind of charts, be it the beatport 100 or something similar, meaning basically everyone has the same songs to chose from. If now everybody uses the same methods (bpm & key) to chose what to mix, many people will end up mixing the same songs.

JackStalk
01-07-2014, 10:29 AM
Now I'm going to be nice, because I know what you guys mean and are trying to say. And I agree, in an ideal world all DJs play the music they love and know that music inside out.

But in many of my real world gigs that's not the situation, I play lots of requests, I mix them, it's a collaborative effort with me and the audience. I DJ a lot of unfamiliar songs, have to choose quickly from thousands of songs, I do this for hours and I can literally kill the night
with one bad mix. To suggest that I not use BPM and Key info would be as impractical as driving a bus load of people into London with no map or Satnav.

I do realise that I've kind of missed everybody's point :freak:

So I would like to add, that I've have really enjoyed using Rapid Evolution 2, I have found so so many great mixes using it's info and as it's stored ALL my moments of inspiration, it's the best "map" through my tunes.

I would say it's enhanced my creativity and is the solution to large digital collections.

When playing a request, you don't always have to make sure the request is perfectly in key/BPM compared to the rest of the music (definitely not key). If it's a different genre, I just wait until I'm playing that genre to fit it in. If you're in F minor and someone requests a track in E minor or something, you're better off playing the track whenever it fits you instead of mixing in two "dead" tracks to get to the right key so it'll mix harmonically. Most "top40" and mobile DJs I see aren't mixing harmonically and it doesn't detrimentally affect their sets. As far as requests go, my CDJ-2000s have a search feature with the needle strip so I can search directly on the player for a given track and don't have to slave through my playlists to find it. I can also tag it onto a separate list to play later.

DJ_Apex
01-08-2014, 12:38 AM
I play lots of requests, I mix them, it's a collaborative effort with me and the audience. I DJ a lot of unfamiliar songs, have to choose quickly from thousands of songs, I do this for hours and I can literally kill the night
with one bad mix. To suggest that I not use BPM and Key info would be as impractical as driving a bus load of people into London with no map or Satnav.


Yeah, I get that and I have had to play a lot of crap I've never heard too. I've had people come up to me at weddings with Ipods and say "play this track!" I'm not saying you need to know every track ever made inside and out, but a good, well-schooled DJ should have a broad enough knowledge of music to be able to mix from a random track to something they know that is similar and have it come off sounding decent. Not knocking on using software, but I think that time spent listening to tracks and learning your library is time well spent.

And as far as one bad mix killing a night, I'm not sure where you play or who your audience is, but I've made some major mistakes in live sets and been able to come back and have a killer night. In my experience people tend to forget if you make a mistake during an otherwise good set, whereas if the set is flawless but mediocre people are more critical. I know it feels like the whole room is staring at you and quietly judging when you miss the phrase/lose the beatmatch/miss a mix, but for the most part people want to hear good music mixed well, and one hiccup usually won't be the talking point if programming and track selection are good and overall mixing is quality. That's my experience, and while I'm certainly not a big name DJ, I've played out my fair share and once I realized I could recover from my mistakes I got a lot looser and more willing to experiment, which I feel brought my mixing up a notch.

Deep N Sexy
01-08-2014, 12:26 PM
@ DjDisArm

Either Warp the tracks in Ableton or change the key of the tracks with a Soundeditingtool like Soundforge!

Jimanee
01-10-2014, 03:36 PM
Using other tools to decide for you - or to do at least some of the decision making - might not lead to you playing the best track next, because those tools are designed to make mixing easier - they're not an aid or alternative to picking great tracks.

Yes, that is a danger, no denying. But IMO there are too many factors to the decision making, to champion one over others is IMO wrong. I select tracks from the gut all the time and when that sense deserts me or suggest a song I've already played, I'll use key and BPM info.

BTW J'accuse you of falling into the same trap the mobile's do when they reckon they pick better tracks because they are not mixing...


many people will end up mixing the same songs.

I hear ya, not a concern of mine locally, but I could see this affecting niche DJs. But I will use Sigma's logic here; if you are letting what other DJs play, decide for you - or to do at least some of the decision making - might not lead to you playing the best track next :devil:


When playing a request, you don't always have to make sure the request is perfectly in key/BPM compared to the rest of the music (definitely not key).

you're better off playing the track whenever it fits you instead of mixing in two "dead" tracks to get to the right key so it'll mix harmonically. .

Agreed with the first, as for the second; the whole game changes when you have several requests and are sequencing them to play them in the best order. I'll quite happily tell someone I'll play their request in 2 songs because it will fit in better...


but a good, well-schooled DJ should have a broad enough knowledge of music to be able to mix from a random track to something they know that is similar and have it come off sounding decent.

And as far as one bad mix killing a night, I'm not sure where you play or who your audience is, but I've made some major mistakes in live sets and been able to come back and have a killer night. I know it feels like the whole room is staring at you and quietly judging when you miss the phrase/lose the beatmatch/miss a mix, .

The first point agreed and I'm quite happy to say I can do that, it does bring me back to the stuff I always play though and that to me is uncreative. Also as just mentioned above, I structure tunes in advance.

The second, well my audience is/ are stuck up bastards :lol:. It depends on what time period: 11 - 12 has to be flawless, 1:30 - 2:30 is a dangerzone, any other time is as you said.

allensmusic
01-10-2014, 04:11 PM
^^^^ this

Sigma
01-10-2014, 05:16 PM
BTW J'accuse you of falling into the same trap the mobile's do when they reckon they pick better tracks because they are not mixing...
Why is that a trap?

JackStalk
01-10-2014, 05:39 PM
Yes, that is a danger, no denying. But IMO there are too many factors to the decision making, to champion one over others is IMO wrong. I select tracks from the gut all the time and when that sense deserts me or suggest a song I've already played, I'll use key and BPM info.

BTW J'accuse you of falling into the same trap the mobile's do when they reckon they pick better tracks because they are not mixing...



I hear ya, not a concern of mine locally, but I could see this affecting niche DJs. But I will use Sigma's logic here; if you are letting what other DJs play, decide for you - or to do at least some of the decision making - might not lead to you playing the best track next :devil:



Agreed with the first, as for the second; the whole game changes when you have several requests and are sequencing them to play them in the best order. I'll quite happily tell someone I'll play their request in 2 songs because it will fit in better...



The first point agreed and I'm quite happy to say I can do that, it does bring me back to the stuff I always play though and that to me is uncreative. Also as just mentioned above, I structure tunes in advance.

The second, well my audience is/ are stuck up bastards :lol:. It depends on what time period: 11 - 12 has to be flawless, 1:30 - 2:30 is a dangerzone, any other time is as you said.

It depends on the time period and the genre. If someone requests country while I'm playing hip hop at an open format bar, they'll be getting their Luke Bryan later in the hour. I'm also not afraid to straight-up say NO to certain requests if they're in 'bad taste', I don't have them, or they most likely won't fit at any time during the night (like slipknot or 40's jazz or something). IF there are two dance-able 120-130bpm tracks that are on the "request list" I'll usually play them back to back, regardless of the key, as long as they have the same general flow.

DJ_Apex
01-19-2014, 04:40 PM
The second, well my audience is/ are stuck up bastards :lol:. It depends on what time period: 11 - 12 has to be flawless, 1:30 - 2:30 is a dangerzone, any other time is as you said.

Shit man, I feel bad for you. I hope you're getting paid well at least. I personally prefer to play fewer/lower paying gigs but be more selective in only picking good crowds, fun places, etc. Not knocking you by any means, but I would hate to have a gig where I had to either be flawless for large portions or totally bomb.

DJArmani
01-20-2014, 09:50 AM
knowing your music, and organization, which is what i'm working on right now. Took a few days off of practice just to organize and listen to my library that way I'm not only playing new stuff & stuff that I always play which usually happens.

DJ Que Yi
06-26-2014, 10:05 PM
I'm in the process of building one big"Bangers" folder. I still have genre and best of genre folders. But I noticed that I was spending too much time clicking between folders to find a specific track. I'm designing my bangers folder to include all the must play tracks that my guests respond favorably to. However I am also including all of my favorite tracks that I know will compliment the "standards". Like someone posted earlier it's about knowing and organizing your music in a way that works best for you. I haven't tested this folder yet a a gig, but I feel confident that this is going to work for me.