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View Full Version : Pay to play? Really?



The Blackest
03-03-2012, 07:32 AM
So on another forum I'm on, I saw a post about a party happening in Miami at a Hotel(around WMC time) and they were looking for djs. Then I noticed that in order to play at this, you have to pay them $200. My question to you guys, would you pay to play somewhere? And why? I really can't think of a reason why I would pay to play anywhere. I mean its one thing if this is for a benefit. I've played tons of those for free and actually shelled out a few bills for the cause. This isn't the case though. The $200 is to cover expenses for the equipment they are "renting" or bringing. I've thrown parties before and the venue either had tables and a mixer, or me and my crew provided that.


Personally, I feel that if you have to pay to play somewhere....you're probably not that good.

peterwo2e
03-03-2012, 07:43 AM
is like I'm throwing my own birthday party but i want somebody else to pay for it. lol your invited to my birthday party bring me a gift min 100 bucks and pay entrance feed. that has to be one hell of a party!!

Dix
03-03-2012, 07:59 AM
Yes & no.... it depends on the situation.

I dont fully understand the gig your describing but it appears that it benefits them for you to "pay to play". In this case, no I wont pay to play. I would possibly play at a discount for a cause of some sort.

On the other hand, I do pay to play, for example, bridal shows. Sure it benefits them because they make a profit off of the show. But the show benefits me as a business owner as the show is geared solely to attract brides which are the clients I am looking for.

If its for my benefit & its worth the risk to "pay to play", yes. However, if its more for their benefit than mine, no.

Hope this helps :)

Hausgeist
03-03-2012, 08:53 AM
I've heard of "pay to play" where you have to buy tickets then sell them yourself to make the money back. That is shady enough, imo. What you are describing is just plain stupidity. I guess there's a sucker born every minute.

Manu
03-03-2012, 08:58 AM
Someone opened a account on 1.0 and posted the exact same pile of shit: come and play in our hotel, you'll only have to pay for all the expenses we're about to put on your back. Told him to f* off elsewhere to find talentless idiots who got too much money.

TLDR: it's a tarp.

Hausgeist
03-03-2012, 09:00 AM
talentless idiots who got too much money.

There are plenty of those around.

DjBlanco
03-03-2012, 09:02 AM
what it sounds to me like they are doing is throwing a party during miami music week and whatever "unknown" or "underground" dj thats hungry enough will do anything to dj @ a WMC/ULTRA party just to have the chance to be heard by one of the big dogs

Manu
03-03-2012, 09:03 AM
Would love to see them handing the cash upfront then being told they get a 12 minutes slot, in between DJ wannabee from room 16 and DJ bigbucks from room 44...

MeowMix
03-03-2012, 09:08 AM
Its pretty simple really. This is part of a change in business dynamics around music performers and owners/promoters in the lower gig tier. Because digital has made djing so accessible and flooded the market owners and promoters have begun shifting the duties that were primarely theirs in the past onto djs. There are so many of us trying toget gigs in the lower tier where quality is not a huge factor that bookings go to thosewho will bring the most people and get piad the lowest or nothing.

This specific example is just the next level of the process. You wanna claim to have played a wmc party and promote yourself?
Well now you can and all for the low price of 200 bucks.



The way i see it,this lower tier flood will last maybe another 5 to 7 years when those who are not really comitted will get tired of the cutthroat competition to play free gigs that you hve to bring at least 20 friends to. Eventually it will temper off although it will never go back to the days of vinyl where a few could and gotpaid for it.

Badger
03-03-2012, 11:37 AM
I'd pay to play, sure: I'd pay to rent an establishment to hold my own party. :)

However, if a promoter told me that I needed to pay $200 for the privilege of paying at his/her event, then that promoter could piss off.

:badger:

Atomisk
03-03-2012, 11:49 AM
I wonder if I can pay $20k to play at ultra

Nicadraus
03-03-2012, 12:04 PM
That policy is ridiculous! Even if it's a WMC event, I will never pay to get a gig because it would be very insulting. That kind of action from their part is very, very degrading.

Hausgeist
03-03-2012, 12:11 PM
Even if it's a WMC event, I will never pay to get a gig because it would be very insulting. That kind of action from their part is very, very degrading.

Of course, but I am sure there are plenty of kids who would.

mix4fix
03-03-2012, 12:21 PM
I need $200 in order to respond to this thread.

bernardgregory
03-03-2012, 12:21 PM
If it was a BIG networking opportunity then yeah. A person hearing you DJ one time could lead to gigs for the rest of the year.

But, it would have to be a hugh opportunity.

The Blackest
03-03-2012, 12:35 PM
I need $200 in order to respond to this thread.

Whats your paypal? I'll send it over right away.

Archon
03-03-2012, 12:45 PM
uhhh. i kind of disagree. if i happened to be in the netherlands, and Q-dance said "come play at Qlimax if you pay us $200." id do it in a fucking heartbeat. i do lots of gigs free. just for fun. i dont do it for money, that ruins it.

login
03-03-2012, 12:56 PM
Last year SONAR music festival auctioned a DJ performance of one hour at night, it ended at something like 25,000 euros. But the winner didn't paid.

Interracial Tea
03-03-2012, 01:08 PM
I'd pay $200 to play on the main stage of some major festival*. :shrug:


Conditions apply.

mostapha
03-03-2012, 03:16 PM
Because digital has made djing so accessible and flooded the market owners and promoters have begun shifting the duties that were primarely theirs in the past onto djs.

Absolutely nothing to do with digital. That's just shortsighted hatered of something you don't understand.


I'mma just leave this here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/78468650/La-Club-Owners

MeowMix
03-03-2012, 03:44 PM
Absolutely nothing to do with digital. That's just shortsighted hatered of something you don't understand.

HTML
I'mma just leave this here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/78468650/La-Club-Owners

Oh you mean the article that I posted here, yea thanks. it has nothing to do with hatred of digital, especially since im digital too. My point is digital has opened the gates to everyone flooding the market and allowing owners and promoters to ask for free or even pay to play gigs

Marc S
03-03-2012, 03:48 PM
^^ i agree, its the only negative side to the format imo,

mrkleen
03-03-2012, 03:53 PM
. My point is digital has opened the gates to everyone flooding the market and allowing owners and promoters to ask for free or even pay to play gigs

Completely agree.

Hygro
03-03-2012, 03:58 PM
In the book TOUR:SMART ANd Break the Band they discuss this.

The answer is YES given the following conditions:
There is a famous main act or two
You are playing on the same stage
You are playing when people are there to see you
You have the chance to get recognized and remembered...
...leading to you building a fanbase where you lack one


Basically its for the up and coming artist who has her own brand (aka music or unique show) to promote, and you get to play for a much larger crowd than usual while on tour (and therefore already big enough to tour, even if its to crowds of 50) and showcase yourself to industry folks. It's a chance to sell more merch and a chance to come back to that town for your own show later.

It's not good if you're some semi-anonymous DJ playing local shows.

Hausgeist
03-03-2012, 04:32 PM
So on another forum I'm on, I saw a post about a party happening in Miami at a Hotel (around WMC time) and they were looking for djs.

How did that get turned into playing the main stage of a large festival?

propertrax
03-03-2012, 07:20 PM
And the continual stooping to the lowest common denominator continues in the overall "scene."

Basically what meowmix said. And in 5-7 years, when all the trend chasers are done with dubstep and moombahton, there will continue to be the heads, keeping it real for the next generation of dipshits to profit.

Ignotus
03-03-2012, 08:03 PM
there was a benefit party in seattle for a local DJ, bit name in seattle, any-who, they sold the opening slot on main stage for 100$... I woulda never done it, because realistically, the chances of you getting more gigs off that is slim to none!

BuddyUK
03-03-2012, 08:23 PM
And the continual stooping to the lowest common denominator continues in the overall "scene."

Basically what meowmix said. And in 5-7 years, when all the trend chasers are done with dubstep and moombahton, there will continue to be the heads, keeping it real for the next generation of dipshits to profit.

trufax the underground will survive in the end, bandwagon jumpers are as likely to jump on as they are off, the hardcore will never die :slayer: If you think playing at WMC or Eye-bee-tha is going to make you some sort of 'player' you are a fcuking mug, create your own scene don't follow the herd.

BuddyUK
03-03-2012, 08:34 PM
:lush:

Here's a toast to the real hardcore, nothing to do with fashion, no compromise, no sell out, it's all about heart. :love:

PONTUS.2
03-03-2012, 08:37 PM
sounds like some straight herb shit to me.

i could imagine a maw fucka thinkin "this will be a good look, ill rock this party and gain a shitload of new fans and that will propel me into the DJ elite" fuck outa here :mad:

DJP >>>

mostapha
03-04-2012, 11:03 AM
Oh you mean the article that I posted here, yea thanks. it has nothing to do with hatred of digital, especially since im digital too. My point is digital has opened the gates to everyone flooding the market and allowing owners and promoters to ask for free or even pay to play gigs

Yes, that article. And digital DJing has nothing to do with it if it's also happening to musicians–like, the kind that play instruments.

It's not about the scene, the technology, the music, mainstream shit, or anything else……it's about the industry screwing over performers because there have always been more than enough musicians to play every club in the world on any given day…now, it's just easier to find them.

…and make them do ridiculous shit in the name of marketing, which no one seems to understand and is probably going to crash and burn once people figure out that no one's actually selling anything except more targeted ad space.

fat8ack
03-04-2012, 02:19 PM
I mean it will be WMC and, well, there will be some big shots around..........

-J
03-04-2012, 02:44 PM
So on another forum I'm on, I saw a post about a party happening in Miami at a Hotel(around WMC time) and they were looking for djs. Then I noticed that in order to play at this, you have to pay them $200. My question to you guys, would you pay to play somewhere? And why? I really can't think of a reason why I would pay to play anywhere. I mean its one thing if this is for a benefit. I've played tons of those for free and actually shelled out a few bills for the cause. This isn't the case though. The $200 is to cover expenses for the equipment they are "renting" or bringing. I've thrown parties before and the venue either had tables and a mixer, or me and my crew provided that.


Personally, I feel that if you have to pay to play somewhere....you're probably not that good.

No... absolutely not and the people who do pay to play (that includes selling tickets) make these jerkoffs think this kinda crap is OK.


Thrown off of a structure of moderate height.

-J
03-04-2012, 02:47 PM
I mean it will be WMC and, well, there will be some big shots around..........

I doubt it... places that usually have pay to play make promises for exposure and better gigs, but it almost never materializes. If big shots were gonna be there, they wouldn't be concerned about money, and wouldn't make people pay to play.

People need to stop doing these gigs until these BS types of things go away.


Thrown off of a structure of moderate height.

xyloft
03-04-2012, 04:01 PM
i'd do a pay to play if it was part of a competition. (there was an entry fee for a battle of the bands comp that I did 15 years ago.).
or if it was for a charity.

but just for the possibility of maybe being seen by someone who may be connected in the scene seems more like an empty promise.

frandomeda
03-04-2012, 10:18 PM
xyloft I can do a charity event you can pay for :D. Proceedings would go straight to my pocket, which happens to be in need.

ampnation
03-04-2012, 11:47 PM
Pay to play would be something I would have to look VERY hard at before doing. 99.99% of the time -- no way.
There are many other ways to spend $200 to market yourself that would be more successful.

The Blackest
03-05-2012, 07:16 AM
I mean it will be WMC and, well, there will be some big shots around..........

I will say that I have seen a few big names hanging out at some of the hotel parties I've played at/hung out at and honestly they are there to get rinsed and pick up a groupie to bring back to their hotel, not to check out the dj, unless he/she is a friend of theirs.

Adzm00
03-05-2012, 07:32 AM
No, never.

Paying to play is for people too shit to get paid to play.

TCMuc
03-05-2012, 07:45 AM
I will say that I have seen a few big names hanging out at some of the hotel parties I've played at/hung out at and honestly they are there to get rinsed and pick up a groupie to bring back to their hotel, not to check out the dj, unless he/she is a friend of theirs.


That's how it's gonna be. The chances that a promoter sees you wants to book you aren't zero, but probably not much higher than at any other party/clubnight/whatever.

Probably the only real benefit is that you can add "played at WMC" to your resume. If you feel like the increase in the number of gigs you play or a (potential) "WMC-bonus" you can add to what you could charge before will make up for the 200 $ go for it if you want to.

Just remember that many many promoters will either never have heard of that play or know that it's a "pay to play" place.

Mick Benjamins
03-05-2012, 07:54 AM
That ridiculous!

Adzm00
03-05-2012, 11:58 AM
That's how it's gonna be. The chances that a promoter sees you wants to book you aren't zero, but probably not much higher than at any other party/clubnight/whatever.

Probably the only real benefit is that you can add "played at WMC" to your resume.

Its not really a benefit though, if you are a nobody and you are shit, you still won't get booked.

Marc S
03-05-2012, 12:07 PM
i paid to play once, (ish, i donated my fee) but it was a charity night and even the bar owner paid to rent his own room,

Nicadraus
03-05-2012, 12:29 PM
I have played for free many times. Friends' birthdays for instance or a charity event. But never paid to play for a any event (big or small) because doing so is even worse than begging for a gig.

Hygro
03-05-2012, 01:18 PM
No, never.

Paying to play is for people too shit to get paid to play.

Or someone with a growing following outside their hometown under certain circumstances as I outlined before.

Nick Bike
03-05-2012, 02:31 PM
fuck that

Nick Bike
03-05-2012, 02:56 PM
uhhh. i kind of disagree. if i happened to be in the netherlands, and Q-dance said "come play at Qlimax if you pay us $200." id do it in a fucking heartbeat. i do lots of gigs free. just for fun. i dont do it for money, that ruins it.

you also pirate your music so your point is pretty much moot.

mrkleen
03-05-2012, 03:13 PM
you also pirate your music so your point is pretty much moot.

+1

Gotta love people who try and justify playing gigs for free - by saying they "do it for the love, not the money"

They dont do it for the money, because they are shit DJs with not enough self confidence to go out and demand they get paid a fair wage.

Austin GoGreen
03-05-2012, 03:17 PM
Mr. Kleen is right, pay your dues, don't pay to play

mrkleen
03-05-2012, 03:25 PM
If you really want to open for big name hip hop acts, you need to work hard in your local market - to become THE MAN when it comes to that style. Then when acts come to town, they will want you to open for them.....as you already have a strong following.

Paying to DJ is like paying for sex. It shows you have no game and need your wallet to do the talking for you. Very sad.

Sigma
03-05-2012, 03:27 PM
Paying to play?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????

:mad:

Evolved
03-05-2012, 04:39 PM
You might want to keep in mind that the Miami Winter Music Conference has gone to shit I think after about the first 2-3 years it became more about money and selling gear than an actual 'conference'. This is what I've been told from most of the DJ fellows I know that used to do it.

I just found this article. Rather informative about what is going on with WMC nowadays. http://www.miami.com/winter-music-conference-2011-article

mrkleen
03-05-2012, 04:40 PM
WMC has been going on for 27 years. It started getting bad about 5 years ago and has gone downhill in the past few...but it was solid for a lot longer than 2 years.

DJNR
03-05-2012, 05:03 PM
You might want to keep in mind that the Miami Winter Music Conference has gone to shit I think after about the first 2-3 years it became more about money and selling gear than an actual 'conference'. This is what I've been told from most of the DJ fellows I know that used to do it.

I just found this article. Rather informative about what is going on with WMC nowadays. http://www.miami.com/winter-music-conference-2011-article

They really pointed out Aoki's inherited fame. :lol:

fat8ack
03-09-2012, 10:35 AM
I will say that I have seen a few big names hanging out at some of the hotel parties I've played at/hung out at and honestly they are there to get rinsed and pick up a groupie to bring back to their hotel, not to check out the dj, unless he/she is a friend of theirs.

True that...

peterwo2e
03-09-2012, 06:09 PM
uhhh. i kind of disagree. if i happened to be in the netherlands, and Q-dance said "come play at Qlimax if you pay us $200." id do it in a fucking heartbeat. i do lots of gigs free. just for fun. i dont do it for money, that ruins it.
what planet you from again?:lol:

Unknown DJ
03-09-2012, 06:44 PM
I would do it if I was guaranteed a x amount of playing time. I would go on stage and place the worst music and sounds possible like nails on a chalkboard making sure to clear out the room. making sure I'm playing in the red the whole time. The make a few bucks off me but i will kill there night.

Mahatma Coat
03-09-2012, 07:52 PM
You shouldn't have to pay to let the damage free

Alert
03-09-2012, 10:26 PM
I've heard of "pay to play" where you have to buy tickets then sell them yourself to make the money back. That is shady enough, imo. What you are describing is just plain stupidity. I guess there's a sucker born every minute.

That's the scam of Afton Live:

http://neverpaytoplay.com/Afton/&NP2Pafton.htm

:tup:

Ferryman
03-11-2012, 08:15 AM
Year before last I nearly played at Glastonbury, but I wouldn't of got paid and I'd still haev to pay to go to the festival.

I still would of done it if I could of got the time of work.

:majorregret: