PDA

View Full Version : Need some general help in making subwoofers



DJ-Veaux
07-14-2013, 12:13 PM
The title says it all, but let me give you a quick background story of WHY I have to build them:

So I am a house music producer by hobby. I have two alesis elevate 3's that I use to mix my sounds. As good as my tracks might be and as well as they might be mixed, they all lack one thing: The bottom end.

To address this problem I decided to ask my dad for a loan to buy myself a subwoofer with the hope that I could pay him back. This request spurred a 30 minute debate on why I need a subwoofer. Eventually, we came to a compromise that if I could build my own subwoofer I could have one.....


So I come to you guys today to ask a few questions on subwoofer building:

1. What will I generally need? (I know it differs from sub to sub, but in general what would you guys suggest that I get as a foundation point?)

2. Knowledge-wise where should I look if I am interested in building a subwoofer? Are there any other projects you could point me to that I could watch and learn from? Maybe some personal experiences?

3. Do you think I could build a fairly good sized one (I'm thinking 12" x 12 ") with $100? Or how much do you think I should save up in order to build such a piece of equipment?

If you guys need me to fill in any gray areas in my requests just let me know! I'm no speaker expert as you know so my questions may not be quite on the dot.


Hope you guys can help!
Cheers,
-DJ Veaux

EDIT: Yes guys I do have an amp.

Evil Steve
07-15-2013, 08:19 PM
You ask the age-old question.
I have $100 and I want to build a sub to shake the foundations of the earth. It must be small, light, loud, powerful, and bulletproof. What should I get?

What you seek doesn't exist.

There are some DIY sites around for loudspeaker systems.
The first that comes to mind is Bill Fitzmaurice. Here's a link to his site:
http://billfitzmaurice.net/


Since you haven't stated what you want to do, how loud you want to get, or how low you want to go, I'm just throwing out guesses.
If you want to provide more detail, like info on the stuff already mentioned, that would be helpful.
Here are some other questions...
Are you planning to use this sub in your car?
In your basement?
In your bedroom?
At a club?
Will it be portable?
What do you plan on powering this sub with (amplifier)?
Do you have any woodworking skills?
Do you have access to tools?
Do you have a shop you can work in?
Do you have space that you can spread the materials out in?
Do you plan on storing this sub when it's not in use?
Will you need to move it?

The question you pose is a difficult one to answer.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent question to ask.
Bill's site can be very helpful.
Before you start making sawdust, you should find the answers to the questions asked, and you should do much research.
It's really easy to build something bad. It can be easy to build something good, as long as you know what you want before you start the building project.

I probably haven't given you a good answer, but, then again, you haven't asked a specific enough question.
Hope the info helps.
Cheers
Evil

Michael Cullen
07-15-2013, 08:57 PM
You ask the age-old question.
I have $100 and I want to build a sub to shake the foundations of the earth. It must be small, light, loud, powerful, and bulletproof. What should I get?

What you seek doesn't exist.

Actually it does ;) If you REALLY want to wind your dad up, get a few (big) sheets of MDF, and a couple of cheap Skytronic 5.25" or 6.5" drivers off eBay (the Chinese ones with the yellow Kevlar cones), and then Google "tapped horn enclosure".

From a single 6.5" driver you can build yourself a 40Hz horn which will not only give you more bottom end than J-Lo, but is likely to make your dad rue the day he made that agreement with you.

DJ-Veaux
07-15-2013, 10:36 PM
You ask the age-old question.
I have $100 and I want to build a sub to shake the foundations of the earth. It must be small, light, loud, powerful, and bulletproof. What should I get?

What you seek doesn't exist.

There are some DIY sites around for loudspeaker systems.
The first that comes to mind is Bill Fitzmaurice. Here's a link to his site:
http://billfitzmaurice.net/


Since you haven't stated what you want to do, how loud you want to get, or how low you want to go, I'm just throwing out guesses.
If you want to provide more detail, like info on the stuff already mentioned, that would be helpful.
Here are some other questions...
Are you planning to use this sub in your car?
In your basement?
In your bedroom?
At a club?
Will it be portable?
What do you plan on powering this sub with (amplifier)?
Do you have any woodworking skills?
Do you have access to tools?
Do you have a shop you can work in?
Do you have space that you can spread the materials out in?
Do you plan on storing this sub when it's not in use?
Will you need to move it?

The question you pose is a difficult one to answer.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent question to ask.
Bill's site can be very helpful.
Before you start making sawdust, you should find the answers to the questions asked, and you should do much research.
It's really easy to build something bad. It can be easy to build something good, as long as you know what you want before you start the building project.

I probably haven't given you a good answer, but, then again, you haven't asked a specific enough question.
Hope the info helps.
Cheers
Evil

I guess I was misinterpreted, but I do not want to shake the foundations of the earth. All I want is a sub that I'll be able to actually hear what the kick is doing in the low range, I'm thinking no more than maybe a foot for the length and width of the driver "enclosement" (sorry for not using technical language, but the actual name for the object that holds the driver escapes me). I just want a small subwoofer that gets the job done, and I'm hoping it won't rock the house because if it does it gets taken away :P

No I am not planning to use it in a car. I'm planning to use it in a pseudo "basement" (its our downstairs living area, but besides a window or two and a carpet it might as well be one).

I am planning to use an amplifier that is currently hooked up to our TV (its an old one, but I can get the model number if anyone is interested).

I have a little bit of woodworking skills, but I definitely need to spend about a week or two getting the basics down (if you guys know of any good websites for learning such things I'd be glad to know).

I have access to a neighbor of mine's woodshop, and its the size of a three car garage.

I'm planning on using this sub 5-6 days out of the week, so at least in the short term I'm not planning to store/move it anytime soon.

Thanks for the link though. Anything else I'm missing?

DJ-Veaux
07-15-2013, 10:37 PM
Actually it does ;) If you REALLY want to wind your dad up, get a few (big) sheets of MDF, and a couple of cheap Skytronic 5.25" or 6.5" drivers off eBay (the Chinese ones with the yellow Kevlar cones), and then Google "tapped horn enclosure".

From a single 6.5" driver you can build yourself a 40Hz horn which will not only give you more bottom end than J-Lo, but is likely to make your dad rue the day he made that agreement with you.

I guess I should've made it clearer that if my dad starts to complain about my homemade subwoofer, he'll take that away as well. Gotta love parents :P

Estacy
07-16-2013, 02:06 AM
heres the thing: a 100 dollar sub you made yourself with no expierence might give you some low end, but it will never be accurate enough to be of any use for studio use.

and how are you going to power them and make sure that your speakers don't get the low end? you'll need an amp and a crosover, both will be way above 100 alone.

Nisho
07-16-2013, 05:09 AM
How about something like this?

http://www.vellemanusa.com/products/view/?id=523187

allensmusic
07-16-2013, 10:12 AM
so you want to make a small, cheap quiet sub?

DJ-Veaux
07-16-2013, 11:30 AM
removed.

DJ-Veaux
07-16-2013, 11:33 AM
heres the thing: a 100 dollar sub you made yourself with no expierence might give you some low end, but it will never be accurate enough to be of any use for studio use.

and how are you going to power them and make sure that your speakers don't get the low end? you'll need an amp and a crosover, both will be way above 100 alone.

I already have an amp, although I didn't think about a crossover network (though it is only $50 after some searching around amazon).

DJ-Veaux
07-16-2013, 11:34 AM
How about something like this?

http://www.vellemanusa.com/products/view/?id=523187

It's suggesting professional experience, so unless I get a vast amount of knowledge within a week it ain't happening. Thanks for the link though, you've been one of the most helpful so far :)

+rep

DJ-Veaux
07-16-2013, 11:37 AM
so you want to make a small, cheap quiet sub?

If you want to play strawman all day, I can play that game as well.

If you think I can't make a decent sub for $100 bucks, then how much would you suggest I invest? After hearing people's feedback I'm thinking maybe $200 now, but really if its anything over I would think the reasons why it would be over would just be plan semantics.

Evil Steve
07-16-2013, 10:19 PM
When you start talking about building any kind of loudspeakers, you're going to get your chain pulled. All part of the process. Especially when you're just starting out.

If all you can say is you want a box that's about 12" x 12" then you're not really giving enough information. It's kinda like saying you want a car to drive around in, and you think it should have fuel injection. You have given other good info, so keep it coming. You'll probably want to determine how loud 'loud' is, and what you really mean by 'subwoofer' i.e. what frequency range to you expect it to cover. How much power does the amp you expect to use provide?

To get to the basics of building loudspeakers, you need to understand a few things.
First, and most important, a loudspeaker design and build is just a huge series of tradeoffs and compromises.
Second, there's an "iron law" when it comes to subwoofers. You have a choice to make; loud, low, small... Pick two.
Third, nothing costs nothing. If you want something good, you must make an investment.

You've been given some good links. There are forums on Bill's site that can give you lots of valuable information. If you want to capitalize on that information, you must invest time reading.

There are other DIY loudspeaker sites on the 'net. Google DIY subwoofers and you'll find lots of sites.

If you want to make sure you are going to invest your money wisely, you must take time to research.

If you're looking to have this project completed within two weeks, with the knowledge you presently have, be prepared to be disappointed. I know you didn't say you expected to be completed in two weeks, but be warned, it does take time.

I'm not trying to be an asshole. It just comes naturally. It's just that, even when you leverage the knowledge on this forum, you still need to have a basis to determine who's telling you the truth, and who's full of crap. The double edged sword of forums.

Here's a starting point, for what it's worth.
Option 1: Pick a loudspeaker (driver) manufacturer, and decide what driver you want to use. If it is a reputable loudspeaker manufacturer, then they'll have recommended enclosure plans for that driver. The plans will tell you how low the system will go, and how loud it will get. Examples of professional quality loudspeakers would be Electrovoice, JBL, Eminence, B&C, Caire, Eighteensound, RCF, and many, many others. Professional loudspeakers can be expensive. The advantage to using pro stuff is that the results are repeatable.

Option 2: Pick a DIY cabinet plan (google -- DIY subwoofer). If the plan is from a reputable cabinet designer, then they'll have recommended drivers that will work in that enclosure. They should also give you an idea of the expected performance of their box with the specified driver.

If you find a manufacturer that says their driver works in any box, then they're full of crap, and you should avoid that manufacturer.
If you find a designer that says any driver will work in their box, then they're full of crap, and you should avoid that designer.

Hope that helps. Take your time, and do it right the first time.

sss18734
07-16-2013, 10:27 PM
The trouble here is that a small sub needs to have a lot of power and use a high extension driver to really sound like a sub. That's expensive.

You could build a pretty decent sub for $100 since you already have an amp, but you're going to have to make it BIG if you want something good (by big I mean 3-4 cubic feet, ported, tuned low).

I currently use a 12" JBL GTO in my room off 100 watts, and it beats most 500+ watt "hi-fi" subs in the $500-1000 range and it will extend down to 20 hz easily. I built it for right around $100 years ago.

DJzrule
07-17-2013, 08:11 AM
If you want to play strawman all day, I can play that game as well.

If you think I can't make a decent sub for $100 bucks, then how much would you suggest I invest? After hearing people's feedback I'm thinking maybe $200 now, but really if its anything over I would think the reasons why it would be over would just be plan semantics.

For $200 you can get a pretty decent powered subwoofer by a brand like KRK, Yamaha, etc...

djmickyk
07-17-2013, 08:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOS1fdDcoPw might be of some use to you,theres a link for a volume calculator in the comments also. :)

allensmusic
07-17-2013, 11:07 AM
If you want to play strawman all day, I can play that game as well.

If you think I can't make a decent sub for $100 bucks, then how much would you suggest I invest? After hearing people's feedback I'm thinking maybe $200 now, but really if its anything over I would think the reasons why it would be over would just be plan semantics.

ok, you are right. I was a bit of a jerk by not explaining.

first off, I agree that any subwoofer within your budget will most likely not reproduce accurately, as mentioned earlier.

I think an average computer subwoofer would easily fit your specified needs with the exception of DIY.
I think building your own will sound lousy, or worse yet, work really well and irritate your father.


also, I think your size requirement is possibly way off. you are wanting a sub enclosure that is twelve inches square. I think you will find that the larger a sub enclosure is, the easier it is to design and build. In my opinion, your size limitation is the most difficult hurdle.
however, if you make it a full size sub, it will certainly irritate your father. subs are generallya source of complaints if they work properly. even small ones.

DJ-Veaux
07-17-2013, 11:41 AM
For $200 you can get a pretty decent powered subwoofer by a brand like KRK, Yamaha, etc...

But I can't, read my explanation why in my original post.

DJ-Veaux
07-17-2013, 11:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOS1fdDcoPw might be of some use to you,theres a link for a volume calculator in the comments also. :)

Oh yeah this video!!! This is actually what I'm basing most of my project on, though its always good to see that another person can play it as well.

de.j.l
07-17-2013, 11:47 AM
Veaux clear your damn inbox bro!

This is the msg I was trying to send you

Hey man.

"If you want to get a low end for producing why don't you just get a set of monitors with a BIGGER driver.

The m audio bx8a's are VERY bass heavy.

I use both the bx5a' and bx8a's for when I produce one set for my highs and mids and the other set for my low end of things.

I got my set of 8a's for 300$.

I wouldn't bother going a cheap route esp with your bottom end, you will want a quality for what you're doing.

I know guys who simply buy really bass heavy headphones for when they do their basslines...

Just a suggestion.

Go which ever route you feel works best for you"

DJ-Veaux
07-17-2013, 11:47 AM
When you start talking about building any kind of loudspeakers, you're going to get your chain pulled. All part of the process. Especially when you're just starting out.

If all you can say is you want a box that's about 12" x 12" then you're not really giving enough information. It's kinda like saying you want a car to drive around in, and you think it should have fuel injection. You have given other good info, so keep it coming. You'll probably want to determine how loud 'loud' is, and what you really mean by 'subwoofer' i.e. what frequency range to you expect it to cover. How much power does the amp you expect to use provide?

To get to the basics of building loudspeakers, you need to understand a few things.
First, and most important, a loudspeaker design and build is just a huge series of tradeoffs and compromises.
Second, there's an "iron law" when it comes to subwoofers. You have a choice to make; loud, low, small... Pick two.
Third, nothing costs nothing. If you want something good, you must make an investment.

You've been given some good links. There are forums on Bill's site that can give you lots of valuable information. If you want to capitalize on that information, you must invest time reading.

There are other DIY loudspeaker sites on the 'net. Google DIY subwoofers and you'll find lots of sites.

If you want to make sure you are going to invest your money wisely, you must take time to research.

If you're looking to have this project completed within two weeks, with the knowledge you presently have, be prepared to be disappointed. I know you didn't say you expected to be completed in two weeks, but be warned, it does take time.

I'm not trying to be an asshole. It just comes naturally. It's just that, even when you leverage the knowledge on this forum, you still need to have a basis to determine who's telling you the truth, and who's full of crap. The double edged sword of forums.

Here's a starting point, for what it's worth.
Option 1: Pick a loudspeaker (driver) manufacturer, and decide what driver you want to use. If it is a reputable loudspeaker manufacturer, then they'll have recommended enclosure plans for that driver. The plans will tell you how low the system will go, and how loud it will get. Examples of professional quality loudspeakers would be Electrovoice, JBL, Eminence, B&C, Caire, Eighteensound, RCF, and many, many others. Professional loudspeakers can be expensive. The advantage to using pro stuff is that the results are repeatable.

Option 2: Pick a DIY cabinet plan (google -- DIY subwoofer). If the plan is from a reputable cabinet designer, then they'll have recommended drivers that will work in that enclosure. They should also give you an idea of the expected performance of their box with the specified driver.

If you find a manufacturer that says their driver works in any box, then they're full of crap, and you should avoid that manufacturer.
If you find a designer that says any driver will work in their box, then they're full of crap, and you should avoid that designer.

Hope that helps. Take your time, and do it right the first time.

When I said 12x12, I didn't say it HAD to be 12x12. I said I was thinking 12x12, which means I'm still open to expanding/shrinking if my mind gets changed otherwise. In fact, I'm currently designing a box that is coming out to be 19x18x19 (more or less). And I wouldn't say that your analogy would be all that accurate to the current situation, but I do get your gist.

Thanks for you input, I really appreciate it. I especially loved your little "pick two of the three" analogy. One question though: What in the world "I'm not trying to be an asshole, it just comes naturally" supposed to mean???? Is that supposed to mean you're naturally an asshole or something!?!? :confused:

DJ-Veaux
07-17-2013, 11:56 AM
ok, you are right. I was a bit of a jerk by not explaining.

first off, I agree that any subwoofer within your budget will most likely not reproduce accurately, as mentioned earlier.

I think an average computer subwoofer would easily fit your specified needs with the exception of DIY.
I think building your own will sound lousy, or worse yet, work really well and irritate your father.


also, I think your size requirement is possibly way off. you are wanting a sub enclosure that is twelve inches square. I think you will find that the larger a sub enclosure is, the easier it is to design and build. In my opinion, your size limitation is the most difficult hurdle.
however, if you make it a full size sub, it will certainly irritate your father. subs are generallya source of complaints if they work properly. even small ones.

Actually I've already started to design my subwoofer and it has come out to be about 19x18x19 (go figure you were right :lol:). And even as fun as it would be to irritate my father, if it irritates him to much he gets to take it away from me :P