Father of hip hop.

[peterwo2e]

cool dj hurc is being recognized as the originator or father of hip hop.
now back in the early 70s this guy was in the streets playing music in parks and school yards. by the time dj'ing became a street scene in t6he early 80s dj hurc had fade. but as a kid i grew up seeing this guy in my neighborhood i didn't know who he was at that time. I'm 54 now and recently i saw him again had a chance to talk a little. he is still involve in old school hip hop and is doing some shows around my area (Bronx). as far as i know nobody was out here in the early 70s doing what he did. is he the father of hip hop? i say YES!

[DjDisArm]

nice dude

[DavyDMX]

Definitely thee father if not one of the founding fathers of Dj'ing/HipHop

[bernardgregory]

I clicked on this thread and thought "if this isnt about Kool DJ Herc" then im gonna flag it as inappropriate.

props

spell check though

[GaFFLe]

I clicked on this thread and thought "if this isnt about Kool DJ Herc" then im gonna flag it as inappropriate.

props

spell check though
LOL.

Pretty cool to say you were there seeing the roots of a world-wide genre of music.

[bumpyjonas]

No doubt Kool Herc started it all....

[Somedj]

I clicked on this thread and thought "if this isnt about Kool DJ Herc" then im gonna flag it as inappropriate.

props

spell check though

Spell check? Leave your elders alone, the mans 54, hes beyond caring how to spell things..... whipper snapper! lol :)

Props on seeing the beginning though, thats amazing. Although, I bet its also depressing at the same time, considering what the public considers "hip/hop" these days.

[Unknown DJ]

http://www.toledohiphop.org/images/old_school_source_code/index_files/scan0075.jpg

only $1.00 before 10:30

[GaFFLe]

Here's the original flyer that started it all. Ladies, only 25 cents... all night!

http://realhiphop4ever.ucoz.com/_ph/1/2/833275596.jpg

[Era 7]

haha man one can only dream about that stuff nowadays.

[Nicadraus]

Wow! That's a really cool experience. It's always nice when you meet and have a good conversation with your DJ heroes. :tup:

[ccabungcal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjnc-X-Vfyg&feature=related
Birth of Hip hop and djing. Mad props to this man

[shocase241]

Definitely thee father if not one of the founding fathers of Dj'ing/HipHop
:tup:

[GaFFLe]

Definitely thee father founding father of HipHop

Fixed

[shocase241]

Please do not forget Coke La Rock...again...Herc and Coke La Rock are the founding fathers of "HIP HOP" in America. Herc simply brought over a tradition that was already happening in Jamaica to America. Jamaicans have been doing mobile sound system functions since the 50's. The DJ, is what we call the MC would Toast, we call it Rap or MC..while the selector what we call the DJ would play the music and pick the songs.

[moyo wilde]

I clicked on this thread and thought "if this isnt about Kool DJ Herc" then im gonna flag it as inappropriate.

props

spell check though

i had the same thought, his was the first name that came into my head. i am not from ny, the first time i heard/saw him was in "beatstreet".
this is a great book, filled in most of the holes i had in my hip hop history.the only book i ever gave somebody, a fellow dj.
http://ia700801.us.archive.org/zipview.php?zip=/6/items/olcovers18/olcovers18-L.zip&file=182002-L.jpg

*hate when i have a typo in the title on these boards and you can't change it.

[mrkleen]

Kool Herc was there from the beginning.....but so were Grandwizard Theodore, Grandmaster Flash and Melle Mel, and Afrikaa Bambaataa

Gil Scott Herron and the Last Poets were making "rap" records long before anyone put a name to it....and long before rap got its name.

[GaFFLe]

Kool Herc was there from the beginning.....but so were Grandwizard Theodore, Grandmaster Flash and Melle Mel, and Afrikaa Bambaataa...
I believe beginning was Herc, those others you mentioned followed in Herc's path. They were all very instrumental in Hip Hop culture but they weren't there in the beginning. They were inspired by Herc's parties and started doing their own.

[DavyDMX]

@ Gaffle
:) Thanks for correcting

[Hamza21]

I believe beginning was Herc, those others you mentioned followed in Herc's path. They were all very instrumental in Hip Hop culture but they weren't there in the beginning. They were inspired by Herc's parties and started doing their own.

Herc created the scene but Bambaataa created the culture. Both were influenced by Grandmaster Flowers (Club/mobile DJ from Brooklyn) and DJ Pete Jones (http://www.thafoundation.com/pete.htm) (Club/mobile Deejay from the Bronx).

[mrkleen]

@hamaza21

thanks for correcting

[Ravi Ravs Singh]

Yeah Herc is the father of Hip Hop....but wouldn't that make James Brown the Godfather of hip hop?

Just a thought?

[Ravi Ravs Singh]

Just to elaborate a bit, because Herc and every other hip hop DJ that followed after wards was cutting a James Brown break...still till this day.

[ilya]

Just to elaborate a bit, because Herc and every other hip hop DJ that followed after wards was cutting a James Brown break...still till this day.

uh really dude? #1 - herc wasn't 'cutting' anything #2 - you think he just sat there playing funky drummer? who knows how much he even played jb breaks at all?

ya, he definitely was the father of hip-hop DJing but hip-hop itself as a genre of music wouldn't be anywhere where it is without mantronix, egyptian lover, michael dee, and a bunch of disco producers who moved on in the late 70s/early 80s. not to take away from james brown or anything but seriously, that shit gets SO overblown every time someone brings up hip-hop history. :unamused:

[Ravi Ravs Singh]

uh really dude? #1 - herc wasn't 'cutting' anything #2 - you think he just sat there playing funky drummer? who knows how much he even played jb breaks at all?

ya, he definitely was the father of hip-hop DJing but hip-hop itself as a genre of music wouldn't be anywhere where it is without mantronix, egyptian lover, michael dee, and a bunch of disco producers who moved on in the late 70s/early 80s. not to take away from james brown or anything but seriously, that shit gets SO overblown every time someone brings up hip-hop history. :unamused:

I wasn't around then so I can't say what Herc was playing but after having conversations with Second and Third generation Bboys of the 80s from what I hear James brown was prolly the most recognisable artist at block parties. No doubt breaks from other bands Blackbyrds, Commadores, O Jays etc etc were all dropped. But wouldn't if be a safe bet that one of the most prominent artist of that whole era would also be the most popular played by not only Herc but by other DJs that followed.

Without a doubt Herc's background would have also influenced his crates with him being Jamaicam. Herc wasn't cutting anything? Apparently Herc was the first to extend a break from records according to the likes of Jazzy Jay (I'm using the term 'cutting a bit loosely').

Were you an OG popper/locker back the day? Reason why I ask is maybe you could shed some light into the whole East Coast/West Coast Rivalry thing? Oh yeah Mantronix, Egyption Lover are all dope and I love the whole classic electro-funk sound.

P.s. the whole reason why I don't think the JB thing isn't overblown mainly because if you go any Jam worldwide, dude will still be on heavy rotation.

[ccabungcal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tfNhL_R_rI
No doubt. James Brown is a fucking legend! JB FTW

[Unknown DJ]

Funny thing James Brown didn't create the funky drummer. It was Clyde Stubblefield who was drumming for James Brown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3xSXc1vy5I

[Austin GoGreen]

OP,

You know what would make this story even more DOPE? Some high quality pictures from where "it all began!"

Do you have any pictures of these places, buildings, etc? I would love to see some of these places in history.

Thanks for the story... cool stuff

[moyo wilde]

i had the same thought, his was the first name that came into my head. i am not from ny, the first time i heard/saw him was in "beatstreet".
this is a great book, filled in most of the holes i had in my hip hop history.the only book i ever gave somebody, a fellow dj.
http://ia700801.us.archive.org/zipview.php?zip=/6/items/olcovers18/olcovers18-L.zip&file=182002-L.jpg

*hate when i have a typo in the title on these boards and you can't change it.

for those that have questions, buy the dang blang book. seriously this is one of the best books i have ever read. the author fleshes out almost every major story. he even chronicles government polices which created the environments that shaped hip hip. most of the questions and controversies are covered in great detail. seriously this is a must read for anybody who is a music fan.

i mean even the part about the west coast i thought i knew most of it, but he still added info. wish i hadn't given it away, but it is that good that you got to pass it on.

BUY THE BOOK YOU SEE WHO DID THE INTRO, RIGHT?

[digi16v]

Will have to read that^^^^ book.
another good reading book on the fore-fathers is. "A dj saved my life".
Like mentioned before herc was a fore-father but there others out at the same time doing things oh-so -slighty- different.
They all seemed to compliment each others once the styles were heard.

my hat goes off to all the all of them.

[peterwo2e]

Here's the original flyer that started it all. Ladies, only 25 cents... all night!

http://realhiphop4ever.ucoz.com/_ph/1/2/833275596.jpg
is ironic but many years after i graduated from high school i meet my old girlfriend again living at this address. and she hates hip hop.

[ilya]

I wasn't around then so I can't say what Herc was playing but after having conversations with Second and Third generation Bboys of the 80s from what I hear James brown was prolly the most recognisable artist at block parties. No doubt breaks from other bands Blackbyrds, Commadores, O Jays etc etc were all dropped. But wouldn't if be a safe bet that one of the most prominent artist of that whole era would also be the most popular played by not only Herc but by other DJs that followed.

Without a doubt Herc's background would have also influenced his crates with him being Jamaicam. Herc wasn't cutting anything? Apparently Herc was the first to extend a break from records according to the likes of Jazzy Jay (I'm using the term 'cutting a bit loosely').

Were you an OG popper/locker back the day? Reason why I ask is maybe you could shed some light into the whole East Coast/West Coast Rivalry thing? Oh yeah Mantronix, Egyption Lover are all dope and I love the whole classic electro-funk sound.

P.s. the whole reason why I don't think the JB thing isn't overblown mainly because if you go any Jam worldwide, dude will still be on heavy rotation.

i gotta apologize here - what I said earlier definitely was/came off incendiary and a little extreme. i still do think it's a little much to call JB the godfather of hip-hop, but really that just comes from my experience that when someone is 'crowned' like that, alternate histories are so easily overlooked and their contributions under appreciated. i actually went back and read through an interview Herc gave to djhistory in 1998 and you were right:


What were your big records back then?

My big record back then was James Brown, Give It Up Turn It Loose. And a couple of records I used to play from the other clubs and as it went on I got The Mexican, I got Bongo Rock, you name them, Just Begun.

for those interested, you can check out the rest of the interview here... http://www.djhistory.com/interviews/kool-herc funnily enough, turns out he didn't get a chance to play much of the stuff he grew up/listened to with his father as "people wasn’t feelin reggae at the time." also some mention of grandmaster flash, although herc is a bit dismissive of the guy... ya he extended breaks and that was revolutionary but flash was actually cutting up records.

at the same time, i do stand by my point that while people like herc played an important role (to say the least) in the history of hip-hop culture and DJing, the musical genre itself as we now know it can be more directly traced back to early electro-funk and late disco-era producers. it really is disappointing talking to heads who are either ignorant or dismissive of this stuff... electro-funk, european electro (kraftwerk etc), even some of the early stuff from detroit (cybotron), etc. was and still is considered by many as weird or uncool, disco and rollerskating music was "gay". even george clinton/parliament/funkadelic was and still is, by some people, thought of as too cheesy and dismissed outright. however, without these giants and a large assortment of unknowns, we wouldn't have outfits like afrika bambaataa.

i mean, i rarely see folks like Arthur Baker and other truly revolutionary producers mentioned in discussions about hip-hop :/ everyone has their own version of history but to me - stuff like this best exemplifies early hip-hop music (again, rest of the culture - graffiti, djing, etc aside):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPYooHy3tzA

here's another excellent article by Greg Wilson about electro-funk... http://www.electrofunkroots.co.uk/articles/what.html
although a lot of it is more relevant to the UK dance scene, he does do a great job of tracing the roots of hip-hop, techno & house back to electro-funk and it's sister styles on both sides of the atlantic. and i also gotta echo what everyone else has been saying about Can't Stop Won't Stop - really awesome book, especially about the public/political aspect of the hip-hop movement.

also a bit off topic but this is too awesome not to share :P


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyW_VkOTo2k

[peterwo2e]

is funny for those that were born yesterday would only see this on movies or pictures. but it was fun. lots of wannabe dj's came from this era. many more were never recognized or gave up after one summer. the dj's crew usually the same kids that live on the area would close down a block on a Friday or Saturday afternoon. they would do it on their own with no police permission. by the time the police notice the whole street would be full of people and the dj's usually more than one would be pumping their music. rather than do paper work the cops would look the other way. taping for a power source was from a lamp post or somebody's apartment. when the cops were active the dj's would move their equipment to a school yard or a park. dj Herc had those big Christmas lights. not much was out there as far as dj lights were concern so some dj's improvised with those lights. dj hurc brought that tradition from his island. and i'm glad he is finally getting the recognition he deserves. I'm proud to be part of this tradition and part of this genre. i would never trade this experience for nothing.

[Ravi Ravs Singh]

i gotta apologize here - what I said earlier definitely was/came off incendiary and a little extreme. i still do think it's a little much to call JB the godfather of hip-hop, but really that just comes from my experience that when someone is 'crowned' like that, alternate histories are so easily overlooked and their contributions under appreciated. i actually went back and read through an interview Herc gave to djhistory in 1998 and you were right:



for those interested, you can check out the rest of the interview here... http://www.djhistory.com/interviews/kool-herc funnily enough, turns out he didn't get a chance to play much of the stuff he grew up/listened to with his father as "people wasn’t feelin reggae at the time." also some mention of grandmaster flash, although herc is a bit dismissive of the guy... ya he extended breaks and that was revolutionary but flash was actually cutting up records.

at the same time, i do stand by my point that while people like herc played an important role (to say the least) in the history of hip-hop culture and DJing, the musical genre itself as we now know it can be more directly traced back to early electro-funk and late disco-era producers. it really is disappointing talking to heads who are either ignorant or dismissive of this stuff... electro-funk, european electro (kraftwerk etc), even some of the early stuff from detroit (cybotron), etc. was and still is considered by many as weird or uncool, disco and rollerskating music was "gay". even george clinton/parliament/funkadelic was and still is, by some people, thought of as too cheesy and dismissed outright. however, without these giants and a large assortment of unknowns, we wouldn't have outfits like afrika bambaataa.

i mean, i rarely see folks like Arthur Baker and other truly revolutionary producers mentioned in discussions about hip-hop :/ everyone has their own version of history but to me - stuff like this best exemplifies early hip-hop music (again, rest of the culture - graffiti, djing, etc aside):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPYooHy3tzA

here's another excellent article by Greg Wilson about electro-funk... http://www.electrofunkroots.co.uk/articles/what.html
although a lot of it is more relevant to the UK dance scene, he does do a great job of tracing the roots of hip-hop, techno & house back to electro-funk and it's sister styles on both sides of the atlantic. and i also gotta echo what everyone else has been saying about Can't Stop Won't Stop - really awesome book, especially about the public/political aspect of the hip-hop movement.

also a bit off topic but this is too awesome not to share :P


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyW_VkOTo2k

Thanks for the share.

I totally agree with you. I think with what you said the issue is a lot of hip hop heads don't don't dwelve wide they may go back but they may not look at the whole spectrum of what was going down and what was influencing what. But I guess it also depends on what region we are talking about.

Its funny that you mentioned the whole Disco Sound and how it get dismissed when in fact it stimulated the whole G Funk movement.

From what I'm aware when electro gained prominence that when popping and locking started gaining prominence most BBoying was dieing art form in NYC. KwickStep at one point was the only active BBoy still holding it down. However this sound was huge in Europe and inspired a whole new generation of BBoys from the like of 'Second to None'. I'm sure without a doubt the prominent artists behind Electro Funk are still hailed as pioneers in Hip Hop. A few years back I was digging in SOHO London at Sounds of the Universe and picked up up heaps of dope electro. And even in Australia a beat digger always looking for electro, disco, funk that shit is easily snapped up and hard to get a hold of.

Fvck I have totally deviated from what I was trying to get at errm let me try sum it up. I think the artists you have mentioned do get the props they deserve and are held in high regard for their contribution, but maybe not by the wider hip hop community as it is so vast and has spawned so many different sounds by amalgamating sounds when it first started. The heads who know and are into their history are aware of that. Any crate digger new would be hungry for those records and any real crate digger old would already have those records.

Aww shit I don't think made much sense but fvck it.

[Ravi Ravs Singh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIUnpI6LBSo

One of my tunes =p

@ Ilya - anyways thanks you've just inspired me to do an electro mix...'old to new' electro from 80s, 90s and the last decade.

[Hamza21]

Will have to read that^^^^ book.
another good reading book on the fore-fathers is. "A dj saved my life".
Like mentioned before herc was a fore-father but there others out at the same time doing things oh-so -slighty- different.
They all seemed to compliment each others once the styles were heard.

my hat goes off to all the all of them.

That book is utter garbage!! It's filled with outright distortions. There was thread on that book on the old site where I pointed out all the distortions. The authors are 2 UK edm homosexual deejays who have have bias towards homosexuality and edm. I wouldn't believe half the things in that book and I definitely wouldn't tell anybody to buy it.

The whole subtext of the book is a follows: Disco was created by and for homosexuals, edm is an extension of Disco, Disco is at forefront of every musical genre since the 70s including Hip Hop,there's nothing wrong with homosexuality or disco. Even their site plainly tells about bias of the book:



"Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton. Despite growing up in Lincolnshire only several cornfields apart, Bill and Frank met on the corner of Bond and Broadway in New York in 1994. Within a week they'd decided to write a book together on New York disco, having spent several nights trading club stories collected from Sound Factory veterans, Roxy drag queens, and a couple of ancient gay truckers from Jersey. Thanks to guidance from Doug Young at Headline, this idea greatly expanded its horizons and became 1999's Last Night A DJ Saved My Life: The History of the Disc Jockey, the first book to trace the entire history of DJing."

http://www.djhistory.com/about


Don't be fooled by the title the book is not about dj history it's about disco and these 2 authors worldview on homosexuality.

[ilya]

dbl post woops

[ilya]

That book is utter garbage!! It's filled with outright distortions. There was thread on that book on the old site where I pointed out all the distortions. The authors are 2 UK edm homosexual deejays who have have bias towards homosexuality and edm. I wouldn't believe half the things in that book and I definitely wouldn't tell anybody to buy it.

never read the book myself so you could be completely right, maybe it does have some issues with its portrayal... curious as to what you think is specifically wrong with it though since i've only really heard people talk nicely about it. who cares if the authors are homosexual or from the UK though? seriously, why does that matter at all??




The whole subtext of the book is a follows: Disco was created by and for homosexuals, edm is an extension of Disco, Disco is at forefront of every musical genre since the 70s including Hip Hop,there's nothing wrong with homosexuality or disco. Even their site plainly tells about bias of the book:

Don't be fooled by the title the book is not about dj history it's about disco and these 2 authors worldview on homosexuality.

the book seriously claims disco was solely invented "by and for homosexuals"? no doubt that a lot of branches of disco were largely embraced by the homosexual community, lot of it was also embraced by black & latino communities... others by rich white people. and what the hell is wrong with disco and homosexuality? you really think disco wasn't a major predecessor to and inspiration for much of the dance music that exists today?? i honestly can't tell if i'm misreading you and making a big deal about nothing but when you talk shit about something because it operates under the assumption that "there's nothing wrong with homosexuality or disco" it makes you sound badly misinformed and bigoted.


and @Ravi: would love to hear it man, PM me a link when it's done!

[Hamza21]

never read the book myself so you could be completely right, maybe it does have some issues with its portrayal... curious as to what you think is specifically wrong with it though since i've only really heard people talk nicely about it. who cares if the authors are homosexual or from the UK though? seriously, why does that matter at all??





the book seriously claims disco was solely invented "by and for homosexuals"? no doubt that a lot of branches of disco were largely embraced by the homosexual community, lot of it was also embraced by black & latino communities... others by rich white people. and what the hell is wrong with disco and homosexuality? you really think disco wasn't a major predecessor to and inspiration for much of the dance music that exists today?? i honestly can't tell if i'm misreading you and making a big deal about nothing but when you talk shit about something because it operates under the assumption that "there's nothing wrong with homosexuality or disco" it makes you sound badly misinformed and bigoted.


and @Ravi: would love to hear it man, PM me a link when it's done!

The main premise of the book is that Dance music =Disco. so any music that you dance to is Disco...that's the conclusion.

Some of blatantly distortions is that Babe Ruth's The Mexican is a disco tune. Babe Ruth is a rock band. The Mexican is Funk styled Rock tune or Rock styled Funk tune but is in no way Disco. Another blatantly distortion is BBoying comes Northern Soul in UK (page 79 "Northern soul ... pioneer[ed] breakdancing" )




Disco is for homosexuals
"[disco]... was non-blond,queer,hungry"
(page 126)

"The stories of disco and gay liberation run in close parallel......It was movement through which gay people made substantial social gains.....it was also a trojan horse by which important aspects of gay culture were pushed into the mainstream acceptance"
(page 200)

Dance music is Disco
"...Disco would live on in numerous other dance forms.....House,garage,techno and hip hop are all reconstructions,deconstructions or selective evolutions of disco."
(page 202)

Hip Hop is Disco
"Think of hip hop as an offshoot of early disco which then grew in parallel - a version of disco's dance revolution tailored the tastes of the Bronx. The formula "hip hop = disco + ghetto" isn't too far from the truth."
(page 255)



I stated before the book is utter trash filled with distortions and lies. Hip Hop is not disco.

[Ravi Ravs Singh]

The main premise of the book is that Dance music =Disco. so any music that you dance to is Disco...that's the conclusion.

Some of blatantly distortions is that Babe Ruth's The Mexican is a disco tune. Babe Ruth is a rock band. The Mexican is Funk styled Rock tune or Rock styled Funk tune but is in no way Disco. Another blatantly distortion is BBoying comes Northern Soul in UK (page 79 "Northern soul ... pioneer[ed] breakdancing" )



I stated before the book is utter trash filled with distortions and lies. Hip Hop is not disco.

I have the book but it's at my folks place...

1. Agree Babe Ruth is funk styled for sure
2. BBoying origins is very debatable depending individual to individual. I think BBoying did have a major influence from Funk, Afro/Latin as thee were the first cats getting down. Funk more so on the rocking aspect of BBoying and Latin mainly due the Hispanic BBoy being the first to take it to the floor.
3. I think there are most def disco elements in hip hop. Without a doubt. Jackson sisters? The break at the start is a classic hip hop break and that is straight up a disco tune. Gwen Mcrae - That's funk,soul and disco. Agree that Disco is not hip hop but hip hop does have disco. If that made any sense.

Also I wouldn't just say the book as garbage I think its great and does give a background into deejay history but like anything it's the perspective of another human being. It shouldn't be taken as the be all and end all.

[mrkleen]

I stated before the book is utter trash filled with distortions and lies. Hip Hop is not disco.

There is a BIG difference between a person expressing a different point of view and a lie.

Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton are VERY well respected writers who have spent their lives living and writing about dance music and DJ culture. The book in question is about MUCH more than Disco and gay culture. The fact that you dont agree with them, doesnt mean shit.

[DJ Boom Bap]

I never got any of that message from "Last Night", hmmm.........

[Hamza21]

There is a BIG difference between a person expressing a different point of view and a lie.

Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton are VERY well respected writers who have spent their lives living and writing about dance music and DJ culture. The book in question is about MUCH more than Disco and gay culture. The fact that you dont agree with them, doesnt mean shit.

"(page 79 "Northern soul ... pioneer[ed] breakdancing" )

If you don't look at a that as bold face lie then you don't history and if you don't know history your opinion is worthless.

[mrkleen]

"(page 79 "Northern soul ... pioneer[ed] breakdancing" )

If you don't look at a that as bold face lie then you don't history and if you don't know history your opinion is worthless.

Yeah Hamza....your right. I was DJing when you were a child, but my opinion is worthless...LMAO

You can go line for line in any book and find small exaggerations and a point of view which you disagree with. To call divergent opinions "lies" just makes you sound foolish. Unless you were IN Blackpool back in those days, you have NO IDEA what did and did not go on.

Botton line that you made very clear in this thread is that you are a homophobe, plain and simple. There is no need to bring up all this criticism and constantly framing the sexual orientation of the authors in derogatory terms. That speaks volumes about you....and renders your credibility NILL.

[Hamza21]

Yeah Hamza....your right. I was DJing when you were a child, but my opinion is worthless...LMAO

You can go line for line in any book and find small exaggerations and a point of view which you disagree with. To call divergent opinions "lies" just makes you sound foolish. Unless you were IN Blackpool back in those days, you have NO IDEA what did and did not go on.

Botton line that you made very clear in this thread is that you are a homophobe, plain and simple. There is no need to bring up all this criticism and constantly framing the sexual orientation of the authors in derogatory terms. That speaks volumes about you....and renders your credibility NILL.


Yeah Hamza....your right. I was DJing when you were a child, but my opinion is worthless...LMAO

Really you 50 years old? I highly doubt that!



You can go line for line in any book and find small exaggerations and a point of view which you disagree with. To call divergent opinions "lies" just makes you sound foolish. Unless you were IN Blackpool back in those days, you have NO IDEA what did and did not go on.


I don't need to be in UK in 60's to know that Puerto Rican and Black bboys never heard or saw any of the dancing at Blackpool and to imply they did is a bold face lie not a divergent opinion. You will not find one BBoy from that era who will back that claim up. Saying blue is the best color is divergent opinion saying blue is created by combining black and white is a distortion of truth,a lie.



Botton line that you made very clear in this thread is that you are a homophobe, plain and simple. There is no need to bring up all this criticism and constantly framing the sexual orientation of the authors in derogatory terms. That speaks volumes about you....and renders your credibility NILL.

From your response it's clear you don't know how to read a book.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
How to Read a Book by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHIiqWqPOng)

The authors themselves stated on their website they originally started out by going to gay clubs to write a book about disco and then turned in a book (supposedly) about DJ history. The main focus of the book is about Disco, then how gay culture is intertwined with disco and dance music and thirdly there is some info about dj history. By the title "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life: The History of the Disc Jockey" the main focus is supposed to be about DJ History it is not. It's more focused on Disco and how that relates to gay culture than DJ History. Neither DJ Rob One nor Uncle Jamm's Army is mentioned in the book! DMC is only mentioned in half a paragraph on page 258. The book does contain some history of djing. The first few chapters does just that but when reaches the chapter of disco you plainly see the main focus as of the book has now changed to convincing the reader to accept the authors opinion of Disco.


"...Disco would live on in numerous other dance forms.....House,garage,techno and hip hop are all reconstructions,deconstructions or selective evolutions of disco."
(page 202)

That statement is the implied main focus of the book and it proceeds to prove this point. So it's not really book about Dj history it's book about Disco. That is a distortion when the subtitle is "a history of the DJ". The real subtitle should be " two authors theory about disco and how every form of "dance" music is nothing but a form of Disco". It' nothing more than bait and switch since both authors are well aware a book about Disco history wouldn't have sold well. However a book about "DJ history" released in time when turntablism and edm djs were getting huge exposure would indeed sell. The book is utter trash filled with nothing but distortions of history,odd ball opinions and bold face lies.

[Mahatma Coat]

Disco is for homosexuals
"[disco]... was non-blond,queer,hungry"
(page 126)

"The stories of disco and gay liberation run in close parallel......It was movement through which gay people made substantial social gains.....it was also a trojan horse by which important aspects of gay culture were pushed into the mainstream acceptance"
(page 200)

Dance music is Disco
"...Disco would live on in numerous other dance forms.....House,garage,techno and hip hop are all reconstructions,deconstructions or selective evolutions of disco."
(page 202)

Hip Hop is Disco
"Think of hip hop as an offshoot of early disco which then grew in parallel - a version of disco's dance revolution tailored the tastes of the Bronx. The formula "hip hop = disco + ghetto" isn't too far from the truth."
(page 255)

What is there here which is in any way non-factual to the extent it should be termed 'a lie'?

- Was Disco heavily influenced by gay culture, was it in fact part of gay culture? The answer is yes.

- Did the mainstream acceptance of Disco serve to highlight gay culture and soften mainstream opposition to such a culture? Again the answer would have to be a very resounding yes.

- Did house music descend directly from Disco? Did hip-hop use the breaks/elements from old records, including Disco records? Once again the answer is clearly and emphatically yes.

- Could hip hop be seen as an offshoot of Disco, is hip hop Disco + ghetto? Again, I think this could be argued to be the case; although this question is more subjective the above, that such an argument could be made is not in itself extreme or absurd.


I haven't read so much bullshit in quite a long time, but it look like we have a little homophobe who can't stand the fact that gay culture was a highly significant influence on modern music.

And linking to some Islamic scholar to 'teach' us how to read? Wtf?

Hamza, you are subjectively interpreting small elements from a book to provide basis for a strange and bigoted argument. Everyone knows that gay culture massively influenced modern music, especially EDM; yet this is in your eyes a falsehood of some sort. You are taking small quotes from a book to prove that there is some kind of conspiracy at work here, when all that appears to be presented is the truth.

Maybe you should learn how to read, rather than trying to perform some strange historical revision of dance music.

[mrkleen]

Really you 50 years old? I highly doubt that!

No I am not 50....but I have been DJing for more than 30 years. On the East Coast. I know all about the history of DJing and have been to many of the places (and clubs) mentioned in Last Night A DJ Saved My Life. Know lots of people who have been in the game as long or longer.....and know they all enjoyed that book and spoke highly of the authors and their research and point of views.


I don't need to be in UK in 60's to know that Puerto Rican and Black bboys never heard or saw any of the dancing at Blackpool and to imply they did is a bold face lie not a divergent opinions.

The fact that people in NYC (and you as well) are ignorant to something happening else where, doesnt mean it didnt happen. That is like saying North America didnt exist before Columbus showed up. If people in Blackpool were dancing to funky drummer breaks in a style that is similar to what eventually became breakdancing - then the authors have it RIGHT.

Just because people in NY didnt know about it, doesnt mean it was not happening. So saying b-boys started in the UK has NOTHING to do with what happened in NYC. You calling it a lie means nothing.


From your response it's clear you don't know how to read a book.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095
How to Read a Book by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHIiqWqPOng)

Thanks for the Tip...I have wondered why I struggled all these years getting multiple advanced degrees, little did I know I could not read a book the entire time...LMFAO


The authors themselves stated on their website they originally started out by going to gay clubs to write a book about disco and then turned in a book (supposedly) about DJ history. The main focus of the book is about Disco, then how gay culture is intertwined with disco and dance music and thirdly there is some info about dj history. By the title "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life: The History of the Disc Jockey" the main focus is supposed to be about DJ History it is not. It's more focused on Disco and how that relates to gay culture than DJ History. Neither DJ Rob One nor Uncle Jamm's Army is mentioned in the book! DMC is only mentioned in half a paragraph on page 258. The book does contain some history of djing. The first few chapters does just that but when reaches the chapter of disco you plainly see the main focus as of the book has now changed to convincing the reader to accept the authors opinion of Disco.

Yes, you are correct here in saying the main focus of the book is on the history of DANCE music....and focusing more so on the transition from Disco to Funk to House and Techno. And the FACT that many of the original pioneers of the sound (Larry Levan, Frankie Kunckles, David Morales, Danny Tenaglia, Junior Vasquez - WERE ALL GAY - must make you feel uncomfortable. But that doesnt change the fact that the history of house music is undeniably intertwined with gay culture.

And WTF are you to tell them what the "main focus" of their book should be? Many many books start out with one idea and morph into another. The fact that you dont like the conclusions they came to regarding hip hop means nothing. The majority of the book (as you said) focuses on dance music culture (something you clearly have very little knowledge about)

[Era 7]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/popcorn_yes.gif

this should be interesting

check this video from 3:00 onwards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX7w5Cjo3IU

/discussion

[ilya]

Some of blatantly distortions is that Babe Ruth's The Mexican is a disco tune. Babe Ruth is a rock band. The Mexican is Funk styled Rock tune or Rock styled Funk tune but is in no way Disco. Another blatantly distortion is BBoying comes Northern Soul in UK (page 79 "Northern soul ... pioneer[ed] breakdancing" )



I stated before the book is utter trash filled with distortions and lies. Hip Hop is not disco.

yeah uhh... i searched google books to see where the mexican was mentioned and nowhere do they make a claim that it's a disco tune - they merely explain that it was played by disco DJs too. as mentioned by multiple people, if you think hip-hop has little to do with disco, then it's you that knows very little about hip-hop... still waiting to hear what exactly is wrong with homosexuality and disco too btw, please do enlighten.

[Ravi Ravs Singh]

The thing I don't understand is why is there even a discussion about gay culture? So there were no straight prominent disco artists? Human beings pioneered in music/styles weather they were gay or straight is irrelevant. So is hip hop gay music and was reflective of the gay scene as well because there were pioneering BBoys that were gay? Because pioneering artists like Mantronix was Bi, does that make hip hop is part of the gay scene.

Sexuality should be irrelivant when it comes to music. Dope music is dope music regardless of gender, sex, race even though music may be more prominent is one of these areas it should not be subject to them.

[Hamza21]

mrkleen

The fact that people in NYC (and you as well) are ignorant to something happening else where, doesn't mean it didnt happen. That is like saying North America didn't exist before Columbus showed up. If people in Blackpool were dancing to funky drummer breaks in a style that is similar to what eventually became breakdancing - then the authors have it RIGHT.

Just because people in NY didn't know about it, doesn't mean it was not happening. So saying b-boys started in the UK has NOTHING to do with what happened in NYC. You calling it a lie means nothing.

For someone to claim to have "advanced degrees" you can't seem grasp simple concepts. BBoy or breakdnacing statred in bronx in 70's,no where else. It is a dance form created by Puerto Ricans and Black,no one else. Does that mean there were never at any time in any other place people who danced in ways similar (Read the definition of the word Here (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/similar)) to Bboys....NO. Caoperia is similar to Bboying but it not bobying! It is not bboying because Bboyin/breakdancing is a name of a dance form stared by people from a certain place in certain time. That place in time is not UK in 1960's! To say that is a bold face lie.

Read page 79 of the book:

bagging trouses-northern soul not only poineered breakdancing but also invented trousers big enough to accomdate afamily of four

So now we are believe not only did Brits created bboying but also bagging trousers too. Really? I suppose that Chicano and Black Zoot Suiters in 1940's and 1950's weren't really wearing bagging trousers? right?




Yes, you are correct here in saying the main focus of the book is on the history of DANCE music....and focusing more so on the transition from Disco to Funk to House and Techno. And the FACT that many of the original pioneers of the sound (Larry Levan, Frankie Kunckles, David Morales, Danny Tenaglia, Junior Vasquez - WERE ALL GAY - must make you feel uncomfortable. But that doesnt change the fact that the history of house music is undeniably intertwined with gay culture.


And WTF are you to tell them what the "main focus" of their book should be? Many many books start out with one idea and morph into another. The fact that you dont like the conclusions they came to regarding hip hop means nothing. The majority of the book (as you said) focuses on dance music culture (something you clearly have very little knowledge about)

how dense can you be? You obviously don't understand the concept of a bait and switch nor the idea a book meandering off topic.

As for dance music you don't know my history......it would definitely surprise you.


As i read all your responses I think I'm wasting my time since I suspect you never read the book and you have not once stated you did. So it seems you're arguing about something you nothing about. If you how read the book you will clearly see random information is combined with other random information and then there'sno tie in to supposed main focus of the book...the history of the DJ.

[Hamza21]

ilya


yeah uhh... i searched google books to see where the mexican was mentioned and nowhere do they make a claim that it's a disco tune - they merely explain that it was played by disco DJs too. as mentioned by multiple people, if you think hip-hop has little to do with disco, then it's you that knows very little about hip-hop... still waiting to hear what exactly is wrong with homosexuality and disco too btw, please do enlighten.

On a page 255 it reads:

Finally ,without disco it is unlikely that the hip hop scene would have discovered so many of it's importnat oddities. "The Mexican", a big Loft reord long before it was a hip hop anthem,is a case in point."

So there it implies that The Mexican is a disco record and it was played in disco club. It doesn't imply one or the other it implies both. It's a disco record played in disco club. The authors throughout the book portay disco not as just as a musical genre but also sub culture so any thing that becomes attached to culture becomes a part of that culture. If you read the book you will cleary see this.


Moreover Hip Hop has links to Funk,Rock Jazz and other forms of music inlcuding Disco but no one would stupid enough to say Funk + Ghetto = Hip Hop or Jazz + Ghetto = Hip Hop. That's total lie! Hip Hop dj's played many forms of music the main one being Funk not disco. Hip Hop is not a form ,evolution or reformulation of Disco, period. If you unsure of this you can ask any of the pioneers of Hip Hop yourself. Many of them are on facebook or you can ask them in person. Many of them attend park jams in NYC in the summer run by Christie Z & Fabel. Don't take my word on it ask them yourself.








Mahatma Coat


What is there here which is in any way non-factual to the extent it should be termed 'a lie'?

- Was Disco heavily influenced by gay culture, was it in fact part of gay culture? The answer is yes.

I never say it wasn't! show where I said it was a lie!



- Did the mainstream acceptance of Disco serve to highlight gay culture and soften mainstream opposition to such a culture? Again the answer would have to be a very resounding yes.

Does I say it didn't? show me where I said it didn't.




- Did house music descend directly from Disco? Did hip-hop use the breaks/elements from old records, including Disco records? Once again the answer is clearly and emphatically yes.
Did I say house wasn't an offshoot of disco? Nope sure didn't. Did I say Hip Hop didn't use disco songs? Nope I didn't say that either.



- Could hip hop be seen as an offshoot of Disco, is hip hop Disco + ghetto? Again, I think this could be argued to be the case; although this question is more subjective the above, that such an argument could be made is not in itself extreme or absurd.

I think it is extreme and absurd and said so many times. If you diagree so be it.



I haven't read so much bullshit in quite a long time, but it look like we have a little homophobe who can't stand the fact that gay culture was a highly significant influence on modern music.


And linking to some Islamic scholar to 'teach' us how to read? Wtf?

Hamza, you are subjectively interpreting small elements from a book to provide basis for a strange and bigoted argument. Everyone knows that gay culture massively influenced modern music, especially EDM; yet this is in your eyes a falsehood of some sort. You are taking small quotes from a book to prove that there is some kind of conspiracy at work here, when all that appears to be presented is the truth.

Maybe you should learn how to read, rather than trying to perform some strange historical revision of dance music.


Firstly you should have watched th video I guarantee you would have learned something because obviously you don't know how to properly read a book. You don't know how to understand how information is presented nor why it was present in such a way. I highly suggest you purchase the book (Here (http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Book-Touchstone-book/dp/0671212095)) and this one (Here (http://www.amazon.com/48-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/dp/0140280197/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1)).


Secondly it was nice try but that old tactic doesn't work with me. The old strategy of:
Ignore what I said,
Pretend I said something else,
attack and defeat that position,
and then make your opponent defend that position

That is an old tactic used by many. It only works on somebody who allows themselves to be lead their opponent. It doesn't work on me.

[Hamza21]

Ravi Ravs Singh

The thing I don't understand is why is there even a discussion about gay culture? So there were no straight prominent disco artists? Human beings pioneered in music/styles weather they were gay or straight is irrelevant. So is hip hop gay music and was reflective of the gay scene as well because there were pioneering BBoys that were gay? Because pioneering artists like Mantronix was Bi, does that make hip hop is part of the gay scene.

Sexuality should be irrelivant when it comes to music. Dope music is dope music regardless of gender, sex, race even though music may be more prominent is one of these areas it should not be subject to them.

Exactly!! somebody gets it finally! Most of Hip Hop deejays were black and puerto rican but there's no mention of politics and oppression that went on in NYC to create conditions to produce poor people set up thier systems and playing in parks but there are many details of gay culture mentioned within the book that has no revelency to DJ History such as stonewall riot. I would think the conditions leading up why someone would set their system in a park (and be allowed to do so by the authorities) is more important to the history of DJs them a riot at gay club in 1960's. Really if stonewall didn't happen there would be any advance DJ's techniques? Is that what I should take form that info? On the other hand no park jams no hip hop djs, no hip hop djs no dMC,No Turntablism,No scratching no rap groups. It's seems obviously the societel conditions in NYC in 1970's is more important than other information presented in book.

I'll say it again it's clear bait and switch. the book is not about history of djing it's more a history of Disco and edm than DJ history. Seriously a book about djing and no mention of Uncle Jamm's Army or even Cisco Kid?

[BuddyUK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbEuq54FcBg

Also acrobatic dance moves go back to the zoot suit/swing era, true, but the northern soul scene was a direct descendant of the mod scene, when did the zoot/swing scene die out exactly lad? Northern soul is stiil about today m8.

http://static.stickam.com/media/image/converted/original/1786/2575/5/1f1f1d9a-b1a0-11de-b969-934412e85e26.jpg

[DjDisArm]

piiimp

[Ravi Ravs Singh]

Before people start talking about BBoying and including it in this convo and start relating it to Caoperia and acrobatic moves done in blackpool in the 60s stimulated BBoying...lets just get one thing clear.

First and foremost BBoying/Break Boys/Beat Boys whatever you want to call it started from the bronx. As the dance developed it had more and more influence from martial arts Caoperia etc etc. But the dance originated from the Bronx. As it got exposure overseas people from overseas started to incorporating their own elements their own local influence to it. And i'm sure if you UK cats ask legendary BBoy crews what got them into breaking it sure as hell wasn't a Northern Soul break. It would have been Frosty Freeze's segment in flashdance which got global airplay. But it has always been a dance from the Bronx and to say a single label can be credited to its development is bullshit.
- Jimmy Castor Bunch - RCA
- Earth Wind Fire - Columbia
- Ojays - MCA
- Incredible Bongo Band - Polygram

To try and credit a whole subculture to the influence of one label is misleading. And don't get me wrong I love Northern soul but as far as it being a major player in the BBoy scene since it's birth is misleading.

Don't believe me watch the 'freshest kids' and 'Planet BBoy' to a certain extent.

Anyways lets try keep this discussion to DJing/music this aint no bboy forums =]

PZ

[Mahatma Coat]

Dude, you're full of contradictons on this one.


That book is utter garbage!! It's filled with outright distortions. There was thread on that book on the old site where I pointed out all the distortions. The authors are 2 UK edm homosexual deejays who have have bias towards homosexuality and edm. I wouldn't believe half the things in that book and I definitely wouldn't tell anybody to buy it.

The whole subtext of the book is a follows: Disco was created by and for homosexuals, edm is an extension of Disco, Disco is at forefront of every musical genre since the 70s including Hip Hop,there's nothing wrong with homosexuality or disco. Even their site plainly tells about bias of the book:

- Disco was heavily inspired by the gay scene
- Hip hop was heavily inspired by Disco
- Vis-a-vis: Hip hop has a lot to thank both the gay scene and disco for.

Its not lies, its not a homosexual conspiracy its simply music history.

Your approach to reading appears to be actively interpreting, (purposely misrepresenting?) what is written on a hugely exaggerated level. What you're suggesting is that you're reading between the lines and can see what Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton are really doing, that is changing history to overly & unfairly represent the gay influence.

Well that's bull shit, as any open minded familiarity with the history of disco, house or hip hop would clearly show. Disco and the gay scene were instrumental in the formation of modern music, including hip hop, I just don't see a problem with this being true.

[mrkleen]

Hamza

You are a straight joke…and this entire diatribe against a very well respected book written by well respected authors is laughable. Not only have I read the book, I know Bill Brewster personally – and have sat on panels with him at WMC and ADE in Amsterdam.

While he may not have got it all 100% right, he wrote an account of what he came to know from his research of first dance and disco culture, and later on what happened in the UK in the 50s and 60s. If that doesn’t jive with the history you would have liked to see him write…that is fine. But your constant insistence that the book was written to intentionally mislead people is just absurd.

Through all of these posts I am starting to see your real MO shine through.

You are nothing but an angry homophobe who is lashing out because you feel two gay authors from the UK wrote this book and intentionally slighted blacks and Latinos in there references.

I am done wasting my time here.

[Hamza21]

Hamza

You are a straight joke…and this entire diatribe against a very well respected book written by well respected authors is laughable. Not only have I read the book, I know Bill Brewster personally – and have sat on panels with him at WMC and ADE in Amsterdam.

While he may not have got it all 100% right, he wrote an account of what he came to know from his research of first dance and disco culture, and later on what happened in the UK in the 50s and 60s. If that doesn’t jive with the history you would have liked to see him write…that is fine. But your constant insistence that the book was written to intentionally mislead people is just absurd.

Through all of these posts I am starting to see your real MO shine through.

You are nothing but an angry homophobe who is lashing out because you feel two gay authors from the UK wrote this book and intentionally slighted blacks and Latinos in there references.

I am done wasting my time here.

hahahaha do you even read what you wrote?

"he wrote an account of what he came to know from his research of first dance and disco culture, and later on what happened in the UK in the 50s and 60s"

your constant insistence that the book was written to intentionally mislead people is just absurd.

Does that make any logical sense?

So the book is entitled The History of Disc Jockey yet you admit the book not about history of deejaying but about "dance and disco culture" and then you state: was[n't] written to intentionally mislead people. Huh?

Truth is truth even people in this thread who support the book admit the book isn't about the history of DJ but yet you fail to admit the bait and switch tactic of authors. Since you know the author what don't you ask you why since the focus of the book is clearly "dance and disco culture" not the history of the DJ why is it marketed as such. Why not changed the subtitle to more reflect the actual focus of the book. They're purposing misleading people, they even have a website portraying themselves a DJ historians. These authors are no different then people like Suze Orman ,Robert Kiyosaki and the like. People who success comes conning people to believe they actual know something they don't.

[Hamza21]

Dude, you're full of contradictons on this one.



- Disco was heavily inspired by the gay scene
- Hip hop was heavily inspired by Disco
- Vis-a-vis: Hip hop has a lot to thank both the gay scene and disco for.

Its not lies, its not a homosexual conspiracy its simply music history.

Your approach to reading appears to be actively interpreting, (purposely misrepresenting?) what is written on a hugely exaggerated level. What you're suggesting is that you're reading between the lines and can see what Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton are really doing, that is changing history to overly & unfairly represent the gay influence.

Well that's bull shit, as any open minded familiarity with the history of disco, house or hip hop would clearly show. Disco and the gay scene were instrumental in the formation of modern music, including hip hop, I just don't see a problem with this being true.

Nice try again I guess you'll slow learner. Here it is again this time pay attention you might win an argument one day.


The old strategy of:
Ignore what I said,
Pretend I said something else,
attack and defeat that position,
and then make your opponent defend that position

That is an old tactic used by many. It only works on somebody who allows themselves to be lead their opponent. It doesn't work on me.

[moyo wilde]

from a objective bystander, i think.

to say that any anything has no forebearers is strange on both parts. also everyone seems to be acting as though it all isn't fruit from the same tree, the blues (hip hop, disco, rock, northern soul). and yeah the blues came from or was influenced by something probably ion't know.

another thing it is my understanding that a lot of the music that is disco or was played in the loft/warehouse/garage was not actually created as "disco" music per se. anyting from rock, nu wave, electronica, to funk and rnb.

i think what you guys are attacking hamza for, homophobia, isn't what he was saying. i think you guys are being oversensitive here. he just said that the writers had an agenda when writing the book. he has supported the fact that they have an agenda (*better word is bias). and those agendas (biases) may have led to some partiality towards gay and britain.

all of hamza's points are very valid, athough i don't think hip hop existed without outside influences. i think a lot of you are saying disco exerted more influence than it did, which is to discredit those that actually were a part of creating the genre. a sort of regentrification of history. in fact hip hop at some levels was anti disco, the same as punk. and that wasn't (just) homphobia (i honestly don't know) but a reaction to the crass materialism that "disco" represented. discos were often seen as luxiurious and filled with the rich doing their coke (expensive drugs), while everyone else was suffering through a pretty harsh economic era. i think it would be more appropriate to think of them (punk, disco, hip hop) as cousins. interacting (good and bad) as it were, but still their own individuals, if that makes sense.

there do seems to be some inaccuracies in the book. are they fundamental enough to ruin the book? i don't know. but they do seem to be speaking about things that they didn't do adequate research into. but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water, as i am sure that the book is filled with valid info.

as a side note in Can't Stop Won't Stop, the author talks a lot about how those cultures rubbed against each other punk, hip hop, disco and a ton of other genres. influencing each other, and partying together as well as conflicts.

in the words of rodney king "can't we all just get along?"

[Mahatma Coat]

Nice try again I guess you'll slow learner. Here it is again this time pay attention you might win an argument one day.

Dude, you have a complete reality bypass on this one.

Believe what you want to believe.

[mrkleen]

So the book is entitled The History of Disc Jockey yet you admit the book not about history of deejaying but about "dance and disco culture" and then you state: was[n't] written to intentionally mislead people. Huh?

NOT what I said at all….but as with the rest of your posts here, why let the facts get in the way of your fable.
What I said was that the book was written with a focus on Disco and Dance Music culture. It also spoke of the beginnings of DJing from the first broadcast DJ (back in the early 20th century near Boston), to Alan Freed, Francis Graso, and onward. Hip hop was ONLY A SMALL PART of the entire book. So the fact that you disagree with some of their conclusions means nothing. 99% of the book focuses on other aspects of DJ History, so your claim that the book isnt about The History of the DJ is a laugh.


Truth is truth even people in this thread who support the book admit the book isn't about the history of DJ but yet you fail to admit the bait and switch tactic of authors. Since you know the author what don't you ask you why since the focus of the book is clearly "dance and disco culture" not the history of the DJ why is it marketed as such. Why not changed the subtitle to more reflect the actual focus of the book. They're purposing misleading people, they even have a website portraying themselves a DJ historians. These authors are no different then people like Suze Orman ,Robert Kiyosaki and the like. People who success comes conning people to believe they actual know something they don't.

Bill Brewster forgot more about DJing then you or anyone you know ever knew. He has been immersed in DJ culture for 25+ years…and has interviewed ALL of the big name DJs in the world.

In his newest book he includes interviews with Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Arthur Baker, Afrika Bambaataa, Grandmixer DST – etc etc.

Do you really think Herc or Flash would have sat down with the guy if they felt he was a deceptive, lying author trying to distort hip hop history and force gay agenda on the world?

You are making yourself look foolish here.

[Hamza21]

Dude, you have a complete reality bypass on this one.

Believe what you want to believe.

It's not about belief it's about fact. Anybody who reads this entire thread will see you ignored what I said because you couldn't find one post I made alleging the things you claimed I said. Instead you go back to my first post bypassing all other posts I made , which elaborated on my opinion of the book (which if you have read you would have come conclusion that Moyo Wilde did). Again nice try:Ignore what I said,pretend I said something else and make me defend those things. It didn't work anybody can see it.

[BuddyUK]

http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr154/bud1uk/p00lhc5d_640_215.jpg

ORIGINAL BAD BOY STYLE UHUEHUHEHUEUH!

[Hamza21]

NOT what I said at all….but as with the rest of your posts here, why let the facts get in the way of your fable.
What I said was that the book was written with a focus on Disco and Dance Music culture. It also spoke of the beginnings of DJing from the first broadcast DJ (back in the early 20th century near Boston), to Alan Freed, Francis Graso, and onward. Hip hop was ONLY A SMALL PART of the entire book. So the fact that you disagree with some of their conclusions means nothing. 99% of the book focuses on other aspects of DJ History, so your claim that the book isnt about The History of the DJ is a laugh.

That's exactly what you said and you're saying it again!!!

" that the book was written with a focus on Disco and Dance Music culture"

It if were history of DJ the focus wouldn't be on disco and dance music it would on the topic history of Dj. Instead what you have is a book focused on {your words} "Disco and Dance Music culture" interspersed with dj history. I find it hard to believe somebody who has advanced degrees can't tell the difference between a topic and subtopic and it doesn't know when an author of the book meanders off topic.




Bill Brewster forgot more about DJing then you or anyone you know ever knew. He has been immersed in DJ culture for 25+ years…and has interviewed ALL of the big name DJs in the world.

In his newest book he includes interviews with Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Arthur Baker, Afrika Bambaataa, Grandmixer DST – etc etc.

Do you really think Herc or Flash would have sat down with the guy if they felt he was a deceptive, lying author trying to distort hip hop history and force gay agenda on the world?

You are making yourself look foolish here.

Did I say that? No I didn't what I said was:

"They're purposing misleading people, they even have a website portraying themselves a DJ historians. These authors are no different then people like Suze Orman ,Robert Kiyosaki and the like. People who success comes conning people to believe they actual know something they don't."

Now you tell me where I said "force gay agenda on the world" show where I said that! You can't. You're just as bad as Mahatma Coat..ignore what I aid,pretend I said something else,etc.

I question for you have Herc,Bam,Flash and DXT read the book? Do they agree with the authors conclusion that Disco + Ghetto=Hip Hop? Which not only a bold face lie it doesn't make any sense since according to the authors disco was primarily Black and gay,right? so who were these black gays I think it's safe to assume they weren't wealthy elite or middle class so that makes them poor,ie ghetto. So if disco is a culture made of primarily poor black gays (ghetto) and hip hop is a version of disco wouldn't that make Ghetto + Ghetto=Hip hop? Does that make any sense? How can you not see that? I believe you're just blinded by your prejudices and biases. As someone who knows the authors of the book you just trying protect your friend at any cost regardless whether you're actually right or not. You don't care about what's right you just care about winning. so the fact that authors readily admit they set to write a book about disco and then instead released a book about the "history of DJ" at a time when deejays were in spotlight (2000) is irreverent to you because of you bias towards the authors. Anybody who reads the book can clearly see the topic of the book is disco (as you admit) and the subtopic is history of DJ. It's a clear bait and switch. Say what you want but you know it's true.

[mrkleen]

"They're purposing misleading people, they even have a website portraying themselves a DJ historians. These authors are no different then people like Suze Orman ,Robert Kiyosaki and the like. People who success comes conning people to believe they actual know something they don't."

You are right. Respected authors who have worked for Mixmag, DJ, Raveline and many other publications...who have written 5 books on the subject of DJing and Dance Music, and who actually met in the club scene of NYC in the early 90s dont know what they are talking about. But Hamza21 does. Got it. :lol:

[Hamza21]

You are right. Respected authors who have worked for Mixmag, DJ, Raveline and many other publications...who have written 5 books on the subject of DJing and Dance Music, and who actually met in the club scene of NYC in the early 90s dont know what they are talking about. But Hamza21 does. Got it. :lol:

I stand by my statement!! You can tell the authors I said that. Here's my website and email. You tell them to contact me if they have problem with that.

http://www.domeshotsandfatlaces.com
domeshotsandfatlaces@gmail.com

PS .. I noticed how you ignored what I said and can't defend it and veered the debate towards whether or not authors are respectable but not whether the book is a bait and switch. You can't win and you know it.

[dj f.m.]

I thought this was going to be about Gil Scott-Heron, but Kool Herc is dope too

[Mahatma Coat]

It's not about belief it's about fact. Anybody who reads this entire thread will see you ignored what I said because you couldn't find one post I made alleging the things you claimed I said. Instead you go back to my first post bypassing all other posts I made , which elaborated on my opinion of the book (which if you have read you would have come conclusion that Moyo Wilde did). Again nice try:Ignore what I said,pretend I said something else and make me defend those things. It didn't work anybody can see it.

Dude, you said the book was filled with outright distortions and lies, and then went on to say:
The authors are 2 UK edm homosexual deejays who have have bias towards homosexuality and edm.

Following with:
The whole subtext of the book is a follows: Disco was created by and for homosexuals, edm is an extension of Disco, Disco is at forefront of every musical genre since the 70s including Hip Hop

and
Don't be fooled by the title the book is not about dj history it's about disco and these 2 authors worldview on homosexuality.

In summary:
The main focus of the book is about Disco, then how gay culture is intertwined with disco and dance music and thirdly there is some info about dj history. By the title "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life: The History of the Disc Jockey" the main focus is supposed to be about DJ History it is not. It's more focused on Disco and how that relates to gay culture than DJ History.


You clearly suggest that the book is some form of conspiracy to promote gay culture at the expense of truth and hip hop history in particular, hence the above statements. Except that the book was never exclusively about hip hop, and as stated many many times now disco and the gay culture are intertwined and have had an influence upon the development of hip hop and DJ culture in general

To not include disco in any discussion of the evolution of the DJ would be nonsense, and to not mention the gay scene when discussing disco would also be ridiculous, so your contention that this book is some fabrication or lie is just plain ludicrous on several counts.

[moyo wilde]

okay guys can we get back OT!

the discrepancy is that hamza feels like you (and the authors) are discrediting/taking credit for/belittling what minorites have done and mahatma & kleen feel that hamza is is doing the same to homosexuals. geez. could you guys stop. i am tired of all of your agendas.

it takes an exceptional writer to present info/a story in an unbiased way. it is easy with most written material to see who the author(s) are male-female/black-white-asian/sexual orientation/political affiliation. i used to make a game of it when i read sometimes.

hamza it doesn't mean that it was the authors intent.

i wish i was a mod, i'd wipe all this foolishness away from what started out as a good convo/thread about hiphop history.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP!

[moyo wilde]

the first record i ever bought:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYzakWz3JxU

[Hamza21]

Dude, you said the book was filled with outright distortions and lies, and then went on to say:

Following with:

and

In summary:


You clearly suggest that the book is some form of conspiracy to promote gay culture at the expense of truth and hip hop history in particular, hence the above statements. Except that the book was never exclusively about hip hop, and as stated many many times now disco and the gay culture are intertwined and have had an influence upon the development of hip hop and DJ culture in general

To not include disco in any discussion of the evolution of the DJ would be nonsense, and to not mention the gay scene when discussing disco would also be ridiculous, so your contention that this book is some fabrication or lie is just plain ludicrous on several counts.

You're absolutuely wrong I said:



The main focus of the book is about Disco, then how gay culture is intertwined with disco and dance music and thirdly there is some info about dj history. By the title "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life: The History of the Disc Jockey" the main focus is supposed to be about DJ History it is not. It's more focused on Disco and how that relates to gay culture than DJ History.


I inferred or implied and directly said the authors have a bias not a conspiracy. read the dictionary definition of the words "conspiracy (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/conspiracy)" and "bias (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bias)". Did I ever say disco shouldn't be included in book on the history of deejaying? No I didn't! did i ever say gay culture wasn't big part of disco? No I didn't!

As much I tried explain things simple concepts you seem not to grasp them so let try this:

Book:Last Night a DJ Saved My Life: The History of the Disc Jockey


Focus of book: Disco


See the disconnect? The focus of the book is not topic of the book. So if one wanted learn history of the DJ by reading the book what you will get instead will be the authors bias opinion about Disco and how that relates to a)gay culture b)other genres of music. The history of DJ is just device used to as platform for authors opinion about Disco and dance music. If authors wanted to write a book about disco and dance music they should have done so not write a book supposedly was about DJ history but really is focused on "disco and dance culture". It's not conspiracy it's pure bias.

[squirrelmaster]

My two cents: I enjoyed "Last night a DJ saved my life." I find it to be a great book. There are many DJs we owe thanks. David Mancuso, Ron Hardy, as well as Bam and Herc...They all played a roll in dance music--perhaps for different crowds, but dance music nonetheless...

[mrkleen]

Anyone that has this book need look no further than the CHAPTER titles to see how out in leftfield Hamza is on this

Chapters Titles

Beginnings (Radio)
Beginnings (club)
Northern Soul
Reggae
Disco
Disco 2
Hip hop
Hip hop 2
Garage
House
Techno
The DJ as artist
The DJ as outlaw
The DJ as superstar

Sound like the focus of the book is "disco"? :lol:

[DJ Boom Bap]

I never got any of that message from "Last Night", hmmm.........

^this

[Hamza21]

Anyone that has this book need look no further than the CHAPTER titles to see how out in leftfield Hamza is on this

Chapters Titles

Beginnings (Radio)
Beginnings (club)
Northern Soul
Reggae
Disco
Disco 2
Hip hop
Hip hop 2
Garage
House
Techno
The DJ as artist
The DJ as outlaw
The DJ as superstar

Sound like the focus of the book is "disco"? :lol:

nice backtrack but you admitted twice that focus of the book is "Disco and Dance culture" (your words). Also you again you fail to comprehend the difference a topic and a subtopic. A subtopic is something you may delve into but the topic the thing you "focus" upon. Don't try run from your words:



I said was that the book was written with a focus on Disco and Dance Music culture. It also spoke of the beginnings of DJing from the first broadcast DJ (back in the early 20th century near Boston), to Alan Freed, Francis Graso, and onward. Hip hop was ONLY A SMALL PART of the entire book.

Here (http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?2374-Father-of-hip-hop&p=36279&viewfull=1#post36279)




Yes, you are correct here in saying the main focus of the book is on the history of DANCE music....and focusing more so on the transition from Disco to Funk to House and Techno.

Here (http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?2374-Father-of-hip-hop&p=34789&viewfull=1#post34789)


hahaha nice try but I see through you nonsense. I'll state again and your response just proves it:

I believe you're just blinded by your prejudices and biases. As someone who knows the authors of the book you just trying protect your friend at any cost regardless whether you're actually right or not. You don't care about what's right you just care about winning.

[mrkleen]

Zzzzzzzzzzz

[Hamza21]

http://www.nationalballinleague.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/you_lose_icon1129.jpg