RCF Art 312A MKIII vs EV ELX112p

[HBL Entertainment]

I believe they are both around the same price point, but which would you guys recommend for mostly weddings? (medium size venues 200-300 people)

Which one is louder?

Which one sounds better?

Other pros and cons?

[azarraga053]

I haven't heard the RCF's, but I know what most are going to say:

Sound: RCF
Louder: Probably a wash, possibly RCF by a bit
Usefulness: EV, has great mixer with multiple inputs
Look: EV has white led, flat face, simple design

Would go EV if you have a variety of inputs and uses, but RCF for most uses and for overall sound. Want to hear them myself.

[GaFFLe]

Between the two, if you can get the full faced grills, RCF all day. Yes, looks play a factor in people's purchase decision.

[Al Poulin]

I would hope you are using a sub or subs for 200-300 person weddings... A single pair of active 12s won't cut stand alone it and you will probably end up boosting the lows - gobbling up amplifier headroom/damaging your woofers AND running into the limiters all night - in the process. If you are using a sub or subs, both 312A and ELX12 sound very good and probably get equally loud. The EV has more amplifier power than the RCF but less efficient components, so in the end the 1000 watt EV and 400 watt RCF will end up providing similar maximum SPL. I personally prefer RCF products (and transducers) to EV, but the EV has a better mixer section and is sexier. Both are good choices IMO. Oh, and the finish on the EV is fragile, so covers are recommended. You might also want to look at the Yamaha DXR series. Better mixer section than EV or RCF, 7 year warranty and similar output capability.

Al

[HBL Entertainment]

I would hope you are using a sub or subs for 200-300 person weddings... A single pair of active 12s won't cut stand alone it and you will probably end up boosting the lows - gobbling up amplifier headroom/damaging your woofers AND running into the limiters all night - in the process. If you are using a sub or subs, both 312A and ELX12 sound very good and probably get equally loud. The EV has more amplifier power than the RCF but less efficient components, so in the end the 1000 watt EV and 400 watt RCF will end up providing similar maximum SPL. I personally prefer RCF products (and transducers) to EV, but the EV has a better mixer section and is sexier. Both are good choices IMO. Oh, and the finish on the EV is fragile, so covers are recommended. You might also want to look at the Yamaha DXR series. Better mixer section than EV or RCF, 7 year warranty and similar output capability.

Al


I do have a sub albeit not a real great one. I like the look of the EV's and the mixer section is nice but I too
worry about the road worthiness.

[Sam Whitman]

I own both RCF all day.

[HBL Entertainment]

I read that the rcf has a max spl of 128 while the ev has 132. Is that a noticeable difference? My current jbl jrx115's say the have 128 max spl and I'm looking for something that can go louder. Now I know either would be a vast improvement in sound quality over the jbl's.

[Al Poulin]

I read that the rcf has a max spl of 128 while the ev has 132. Is that a noticeable difference? My current jbl jrx115's say the have 128 max spl and I'm looking for something that can go louder. Now I know either would be a vast improvement in sound quality over the jbl's.

No way in hell the EV does anywhere near 132DBs.... Their own sensitivity specs of 95db/W for the passive ELX112 means you would have to apply over 4000 wattts of power to achieve this SPL level, which would of course be impossible. As you mentionned, both the RCF and EV will sound noticeably better than your JRX cabs. As for will they get louder : possibly but not necessarily. Especially since the JRX cabs appear to be extremely loud because they are extremely harsh - so to many people the JRX cabs might actually seem louder because they hurt their ears.

Al

[Incognito]

No way in hell the EV does anywhere near 132DBs.... Their own sensitivity specs of 95db/W for the passive ELX112 means you would have to apply over 4000 wattts of power to achieve this SPL level, which would of course be impossible. As you mentionned, both the RCF and EV will sound noticeably better than your JRX cabs. As for will they get louder : possibly but not necessarily. Especially since the JRX cabs appear to be extremely loud because they are extremely harsh - so to many people the JRX cabs might actually seem louder because they hurt their ears.

Al
Excellent point, one I was just about to make myself. It would actually take 5,000 watts at a sensitivity of 95db (1w/1m) to achieve 132db, considering the ELX112 actually falls short of even that sensitivity (it's actually 94db 1w/1m http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1070) & only has an RMS power handling of 250 watts it shows that much of the 1,000 watt amp module is there for mainly headroom & marketing hype http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1066 .
I would say an actually output of 118db to 121db to be a more realistic output of one of those tops & if you read the spec sheet it does state that the 132db rating is only a calculated output, not an actual measured output.

That said unless the RCF 312a has a sensitivity of 102db then I would say that it's spec too is a calculated output since it only has a max of 350 watts available to it, so that spec too is a bit over inflated. http://www.rcf.it/products/pro-speaker-systems/art-series/art-312-a

[DJ Que Yi]

I've never heard of RCF until I joined this forum. But that was an issue of availability and popularity within the states. Till this day I haven't personally heard them or know of anyone using them in my local or surrounding areas of. (Texas). I was interested and close to buying a set but I couldn't be comfortable with buying speakers that I have never heard. I don't doubt their quality and I value the experience and knowledge on this forum.

I own the EV's which sound great and look great as well. For weddings where perception is paramount I would use the EV's. You won't compromise sound at any noticeable amount but the brand is noticeable and has is equated with quality in the states.

[Incognito]

I've never heard of RCF until I joined this forum. But that was an issue of availability and popularity within the states. Till this day I haven't personally heard them or know of anyone using them in my local or surrounding areas of. (Texas). I was interested and close to buying a set but I couldn't be comfortable with buying speakers that I have never heard. I don't doubt their quality and I value the experience and knowledge on this forum.

I own the EV's which sound great and look great as well. For weddings where perception is paramount I would use the EV's. You won't compromise sound at any noticeable amount but the brand is noticeable and has is equated with quality in the states.EAW used RCF drivers in some of their designs back in the 90's so a lot of people actually heard them without even knowing they where hearing them (though speaker design also contributes to the over all sound as well). Today they make their own designs & are actually a respected company though like all companies it's down to which tool is the correct for the job at hand, just because it carries an RCF badge doesn't automatically make it a perfect fit for all intended purposes.

Both of the companies at hand are great companies but I would say see which one is the easiest for the OP to have serviced if need be because spec wise these are pretty well evenly matched, sound quality wise may give a slight edge to RCF but by how much I am not 100% sure.

[DJ Que Yi]

Excellent point, one I was just about to make myself. It would actually take 5,000 watts at a sensitivity of 95db (1w/1m) to achieve 132db, considering the ELX112 actually falls short of even that sensitivity (it's actually 94db 1w/1m http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1070) & only has an RMS power handling of 250 watts it shows that much of the 1,000 watt amp module is there for mainly headroom & marketing hype http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1066 .
I would say an actually output of 118db to 121db to be a more realistic output of one of those tops & if you read the spec sheet it does state that the 132db rating is only a calculated output, not an actual measured output.

That said unless the RCF 312a has a sensitivity of 102db then I would say that it's spec too is a calculated output since it only has a max of 350 watts available to it, so that spec too is a bit over inflated. http://www.rcf.it/products/pro-speaker-systems/art-series/art-312-a

Thank you both or shedding some light on the actual vs. marketing specs. So is marketing spec hype common across the board by most if not all speaker manufacturers or just isolated to EV?
If this is a common practice then are we to omit the ratings and rely on personal hearing and word of mouth? I hope I'm not coming across as facetious. I just want to be better informed when I purchase my next set of speakers.

[disbjohn]

Thank you both or shedding some light on the actual vs. marketing specs. So is marketing spec hype common across the board by most if not all speaker manufacturers or just isolated to EV?
If this is a common practice then are we to omit the ratings and rely on personal hearing and word of mouth? I hope I'm not coming across as facetious. I just want to be better informed when I purchase my next set of speakers.

It is mostly all marketing hype, unless it specifically states Actual measured SPL

[Brom]

And really, how many of us are pushing our speakers to 120 dB or anywhere even close? 85 dB is the point of hearing damage with long-term exposure, a tractor at 1m is about 100 dB, real hearing damage can occur at 120 dB - which is about the same level as a Vuvuzela horn (not saying they're related :lol: ), and the threshold of pain is 130 dB.

Most of my events are maybe 95 dB tops. Do we really need speakers that can push out a real 130+ dB? Not saying anything about the "quality" of that sound, just the necessity of the actual SPL that provides. I know there would be a quality difference between an EV ELX pushing that level and a Danley SH50.

More on various dB levels here:

http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/virtualexhibit/6measuringsound.html

[Brom]

I've also never run my set of 312A MkII into clipping. Anyone know at what dB that happens? I usually have them set all the way up to try to level match my EX2.2 but I know I'm nowhere near clipping on any of them.

[Defiance]

And really, how many of us are pushing our speakers to 120 dB or anywhere even close? 85 dB is the point of hearing damage with long-term exposure, a tractor at 1m is about 100 dB, real hearing damage can occur at 120 dB - which is about the same level as a Vuvuzela horn (not saying they're related :lol: ), and the threshold of pain is 130 dB.

Most of my events are maybe 95 dB tops. Do we really need speakers that can push out a real 130+ dB? Not saying anything about the "quality" of that sound, just the necessity of the actual SPL that provides. I know there would be a quality difference between an EV ELX pushing that level and a Danley SH50.

More on various dB levels here:

http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/virtualexhibit/6measuringsound.html

I've used a Radioshack spl meter and my gf's iphone to figure out how 'loud' I want my system to be. I found most bar/lounge to be around 92-95db (usually a mobile setup) while the club or club/bar type places are about 95-99db. I used the same meters for all the places I tested, so while the actual numbers might be different, the variation was pretty close. I found my system can do a bit over 100db in most events on the dance floor if I am really pushing it.

I honestly think one you hit a certain threshold of quality of the speaker, you get extreme diminishing return, you get more from how your setup is at the particular venue.

[Al Poulin]

I know that in an actual compact active speaker shootout a few years ago (comparing 10'' models from JBL, Mackie, FBT, RCF, DB tech etc.) the RCF 310A ended up outperforming every other speaker in measured SPL capability - measured at about 123DB if I recall correctly. Most others were between 113 and 118DBs. The overall shootout winner was FBT however, because of its very ear pleasing out of box sound. This does go to show that actual SPL in real world use will always be MUCH LESS than the numbers listed by the manufacturer, which are often calculated BUT even when measured, might be measured for a few milliseconds with limiters deactivated and at a certain frequency only (just to be able to publish the number).

Al

[Al Poulin]

I've used a Radioshack spl meter and my gf's iphone to figure out how 'loud' I want my system to be. I found most bar/lounge to be around 92-95db (usually a mobile setup) while the club or club/bar type places are about 95-99db. I used the same meters for all the places I tested, so while the actual numbers might be different, the variation was pretty close. I found my system can do a bit over 100db in most events on the dance floor if I am really pushing it.

I honestly think one you hit a certain threshold of quality of the speaker, you get extreme diminishing return, you get more from how your setup is at the particular venue.


The numbers you are indicated here were meaured in the crowd or in the listening position. Manufacturer numbers are always at 1 meter away from the speaker.

[ampnation]

I've never heard of RCF until I joined this forum. But that was an issue of availability and popularity within the states. Till this day I haven't personally heard them or know of anyone using them in my local or surrounding areas of. (Texas). I was interested and close to buying a set but I couldn't be comfortable with buying speakers that I have never heard. I don't doubt their quality and I value the experience and knowledge on this forum.

I own the EV's which sound great and look great as well. For weddings where perception is paramount I would use the EV's. You won't compromise sound at any noticeable amount but the brand is noticeable and has is equated with quality in the states.

I would argue that anyone other than people involved in the sound business, EV is no more recognizable than RCF. I could be wrong.


The numbers you are indicated here were meaured in the crowd or in the listening position. Manufacturer numbers are always at 1 meter away from the speaker.

Al makes a great point here. I would add that one should take into consideration just how much distance there is between speakers and crowd when planning a gig as well as other major conditions like outdoors (no reflective surfaces) vs. a small room. When considering these things, think about the inverse square law of audio that dictates how much a sound wave will attenuate over a given distance, and the less scientific estimation of room gain (at least in a mobile DJ's world). Taking benchmark readings is a great idea so you know you're starting from real numbers. Knowing how different attributes of a venue will affect the result will help you plan.

[Defiance]

I just get annoyed when people are arguing about the specs on the speaker, it is the same as people as 'benchmark racing' new cars based on spec sheets they find on the internet. I don't know the two speakers in comparison, but if they are in the same ballpark, then the only way to choose the 'right' one is to check it out in person.

I personally like a 'soft' high end, which I find a lot of people perceive as being a quieter speaker, I also tend to run my tops with minimal low end and let the subwoofer do the work and have a 'punchy' sound to it. You might be completely opposite, but the point is to have an idea what you want from the speaker, take a listen and go from there. The only thing I'd use on the internet for a speaker is build quality (and sometimes reliability).

[Brom]

I never took physics but I found this formula:

Doubling the distance drops the intensity by about 6 dB and that 10 times the distance drops the intensity by 20 dB.

If that's the right formula and say we're just trying to put around 90 dB at the back of a dance floor at a wedding - roughly 10 meters from our speakers for simplicity sake - we'd want a speaker that puts out an honest 110 db at 1 meter, correct? Then adjust accordingly for higher distances and SPL?

[Incognito]

I never took physics but I found this formula:

Doubling the distance drops the intensity by about 6 dB and that 10 times the distance drops the intensity by 20 dB.

If that's the right formula and say we're just trying to put around 90 dB at the back of a dance floor at a wedding - roughly 10 meters from our speakers for simplicity sake - we'd want a speaker that puts out an honest 110 db at 1 meter, correct? Then adjust accordingly for higher distances and SPL? You've just quoted the inverse square law & yes you would require 110db at reference (1m) to achieve 90db 10m away.

[jayhwk]

I just get annoyed when people are arguing about the specs on the speaker, it is the same as people as 'benchmark racing' new cars based on spec sheets they find on the internet. I don't know the two speakers in comparison, but if they are in the same ballpark, then the only way to choose the 'right' one is to check it out in person.

I personally like a 'soft' high end, which I find a lot of people perceive as being a quieter speaker, I also tend to run my tops with minimal low end and let the subwoofer do the work and have a 'punchy' sound to it. You might be completely opposite, but the point is to have an idea what you want from the speaker, take a listen and go from there. The only thing I'd use on the internet for a speaker is build quality (and sometimes reliability).

I won't spec a speaker I haven't personally heard, but the spec sheets for reputable manufactures in high end product ranges for the major manufacturers are usually honest. Once you get to the JBL SRX / EV QRX speaker range and higher, the engineers write the spec sheets instead of the marketing people.

I also strongly dislike specing a speaker that doesn't give directivity data to the point that I'll go with a different manufacturer who makes a similar product and does supply the data.

We've also been talking about SPL measurements here - note that all SPL meters need to be calibrated (even Rat Shack ones should have a calibration knob somewhere - if it doesn't, don't buy it). The basketball arena here does "SPL" measurements and shows them to the crowd. Last game the meter hit 120, which is absurd, even for the loudest basketball venue in the country. I asked the sound guy if they were using an actual meter. He said it was a real SPL meter, but if I got anywhere near it with a calibrator they would need to physically restrain me. We've also been throwing around SPL numbers without saying what the weighting is - 105dB A-Weighted is very, very different from 105dB C-Weighted.

[Defiance]

Once you get to the JBL SRX / EV QRX speaker range and higher, the engineers write the spec sheets instead of the marketing people.



I'd believe that only when I hear it from the engineer. I'd suspect that they have raw data for each driver/speaker and in-house software to calculate the spl. A test would most likely be done to see how accurate the software was and if it falls within a set tolerance they would go with 'what numbers sound best.'

This is why a 1800w 131/spl speaker "sounds" louder than a 900w 131spl speaker to the average customer.

[HBL Entertainment]

I appreciate all of the discussion. I'm thinking of going rcf although I do like the versatility of all the inputs on the ev's. I'm really looking for something that has more clarity and sounds better at higher volumes.

[DJAkash]

RCF are super sweet sounding, I've heard alot of loud speakers that are great and all but most of them have a harshness too them, the mids on the RCF for the same song usually come out feeling smooth and natural, if that makes sense, also mounting lights on the speaker directly actually catches peoples attention, I have had clients who use it as an opening conversation piece to hire me for their event!

[ampnation]

I won't spec a speaker I haven't personally heard, but the spec sheets for reputable manufactures in high end product ranges for the major manufacturers are usually honest. Once you get to the JBL SRX / EV QRX speaker range and higher, the engineers write the spec sheets instead of the marketing people.

I also strongly dislike specing a speaker that doesn't give directivity data to the point that I'll go with a different manufacturer who makes a similar product and does supply the data.

We've also been talking about SPL measurements here - note that all SPL meters need to be calibrated (even Rat Shack ones should have a calibration knob somewhere - if it doesn't, don't buy it). The basketball arena here does "SPL" measurements and shows them to the crowd. Last game the meter hit 120, which is absurd, even for the loudest basketball venue in the country. I asked the sound guy if they were using an actual meter. He said it was a real SPL meter, but if I got anywhere near it with a calibrator they would need to physically restrain me. We've also been throwing around SPL numbers without saying what the weighting is - 105dB A-Weighted is very, very different from 105dB C-Weighted.

I've seen Judas Priest, Ted Nugent and Def Leppard live. None of them compared to game 7 of the Kings/Lakers Western Conference Finals in 2002. My ears HURT at that game to the point I held my hands over my ears when it got really bad... The official report was that it hit 112 dB. I really can't imagine a basketball game getting to 120 dB unless they have shotgun mics picking up the crowd noise and feeding THAT thru the PA in which case the culprit(s) should be prosecuted for endangering the health of the patrons unnecessarily. The more logical explanation is as you suggest... hype.

and back to the OP... the key to your observations will be ensuring the 110 dB at 1m are to be believed. That is to say, that you can actually get 110dB at 1 m continuously without clipping, limiting or destroying.