The Return of the BFM Thread

[Budzak]

It was, I believe, the single most popular thread in the Amp & Speaker forum, so we may as well bring it back, get it going, and fill it with knowledge again.

For those not in the know, BFM speakers are DIY designs aimed at providing good sound at a low dollar cost. The more popular ones here were the Tubas: horn-loaded subs on a budget.

For more info, hit up the BFM website: http://billfitzmaurice.com/

[Lazerick]

Good one, I was thinking about bringing this back

[Lazerick]

I always wanted to build the tuba 24

[g-sep]

Rugged!! Wish I knew about that sight when I was designing a guitar cab for a design project for class. Woulda helped out a lot understanding what sizes I needed.

[Budzak]

I have yet to build one, but I still would love to make a pair of dual-loaded Tuba 24s. I'd do 30s, but I don't think I can fit them in my car with the rest of my gear.

I've ever-so-slowly acquired the bits and pieces for this. I have tops, I got a second amp, I have a DSP for crossover duty... Now I need plans and materials to build the Tuba.

[Incognito]

Does anyone have any of the pictures from the old thread?

[Estacy]

there are loads of pics to be found on the BFM forum

[Incognito]

there are loads of pics to be found on the BFM forum

Yes but since this is the BFM thread for DJFM it would of been nice to repost a couple of the old pictures that once where posted here.

[Rek_Aviles]

what was the name of said thread? BFM?

[Rek_Aviles]

Looks like Monomer started the thread, but archive site only cached a few pages.. No pics.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080702014554/http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38107

[rec]

Here is a pic of my 4 24" T30 subs (4012HO drivers)
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii31/outerbounds/BFM%20pics/100_1282.jpg

[DTR]

I hope Bill re-registers, I liked that guy.

[Incognito]

Here is a pic of my 4 24" T30 subs (4012HO drivers)
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii31/outerbounds/BFM%20pics/100_1282.jpg

Looks good, I like how you integrated the handles into the sub itself. Do you use a trolley of some sort or a caster board since I don't see any attached casters?

[Incognito]

I hope Bill re-registers, I liked that guy.

:tup:Ditto:tup:

I think an invite is in order.

[DJMC]

Everyone knows BOSE is better.....





(LOL -- this is j/k --- I know how much Bill Fitzmaurice hates BOSE)



DJMC is a Sacramento Wedding DJ (http://www.dj-mc.com) who specializes in non-cheesy receptions and private events.

[rec]

incognito, I have a rock n roll cart with pneumatic wheels. Makes moving them around pretty easy as long as I dont have to lift them up onto a stage. They are a hand full if you dont have help. All 4 together produce pretty brutal bass. I cant imagine needing more, other than for large venues. I can rattle the rafters in a gym with a pair and all 4 together are amazing.

[Incognito]

incognito, I have a rock n roll cart with pneumatic wheels. Makes moving them around pretty easy as long as I dont have to lift them up onto a stage. They are a hand full if you dont have help. All 4 together produce pretty brutal bass. I cant imagine needing more, other than for large venues. I can rattle the rafters in a gym with a pair and all 4 together are amazing.

Yes I am familiar with the potential of the T30 & what they can do when clustered so I 100% believe you but I don't remember them being heavy (actually I remember the opposite).

[rec]

I have the 4012HO drivers installed which weigh 22.5lbs each, I have never weighed the cabs so I am not sure what the overall weight is. I am in my late 40's so the ole back is not what it used to be.

[Incognito]

I have the 4012HO drivers installed which weigh 22.5lbs each, I have never weighed the cabs so I am not sure what the overall weight is. I am in my late 40's so the ole back is not what it used to be.

Not much difference in weight, the drivers loaded in the T30's where 19 pounds each but I guess it all comes down to perspective & yes as the years weigh in things that I once found easy does seem to take a little more effort these days.

[DTR]

Everyone knows BOSE is better.....


Buy Other Sound Equipment?

:P

[windspeed36]

I hope Bill re-registers, I liked that guy.

Djteknovibe is also a bit slow in re-joining..

[Incognito]

Djteknovibe is also a bit slow in re-joining..
I don't think he had any BFM speakers.

[djscrizzle]

I built some TLAH 'look-alikes' just after DJF went down. I gigged 'em in December, and they sounded better than the venue's installed sound.

Specs:
8x 5" Sony poly-propylene cone 4-ohm woofer, 10WRMS/20W Max, 85.3db/1W@1M,
8x KSN-1016 piezo tweeter.
12" wide, 12" deep, 60" tall
5/8" CDX outdoor grade plywood with PL-Prem. Polyurethane glued and 1.5" ring-shank nailed joints
Weight: 35Lbs
Ground stack splayable, and Flyable.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/djscrizzle/IMG_0185.jpg

With these for subs:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/djscrizzle/NewSubs.jpg

And these for amplification:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/djscrizzle/NewAmpsLoaded.jpg

The idea came from these 1983 vintage LAs my dad built... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/djscrizzle/PAStack.jpg

[djhustle]

starting my build tomorrow for the otop 12s, but i still havent decided on a sub yet. Are the tuba 30s really better for djing, or should i go for the t48?

[djscrizzle]

If memory serves me properly, it was said on the old DJF that the following applied to T30 vs T48...

The Titan 48 was 'voiced' more for live band music, than DJing, and sacrifices lower-end for more power; more 'Kick' in the 70-100Hz region. The Tuba-30 goes deeper and really shines in groups of 4 or more stacked and vee'd together.

[windspeed36]

I don't think he had any BFM speakers.

I was meaning along with BFM missing, Tek and a few others i remember are missing..

[swine]

Friday I put on my first coat of duratex onto my auto tuba. Then I crashed really hard snowboarding and my shoulder is in incredible amounts of pain so I cant move it to put paint on.. Ill post pictures soon

[Incognito]

I was meaning along with BFM missing, Tek and a few others i remember are missing..

Ahhh, ok I got you. I was thrown off since this is the BFM thread & we where talking about BFM designs plus inviting back Bill.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

With these for subs:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/djscrizzle/NewSubs.jpg
Those aren't subs. These are subs:
http://www.users.on.net/~flippy/T48/T48-5.jpg

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

(LOL -- this is j/k --- I know how much Bill Fitzmaurice hates BOSE)

Not at all. I think the L1 Compact is a perfectly adequate $695 system, and the L1 Model 1 is a perfectly good $1295 system. Now buying them at the price they're actually worth is a different story.

[Incognito]

Welcome back on board Bill, glad you're here with your wealth of knowledge.

[monomer]

Looks like Monomer started the thread, but archive site only cached a few pages.. No pics.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080702014554/http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38107

My most successful thread, ever.

Shame none of the 200+ pages were saved.

[swine]

Those titans(?) are f-ing sexy! I love how the supports are carved out.

[Incognito]

My most successful thread, ever.

Shame none of the 200+ pages were saved.

Nice to see you back Monomer, now the DJFM is starting to get back to its' old self but a few people are still amongst the missing.

[djscrizzle]

Those aren't subs. These are subs:
http://www.users.on.net/~flippy/T48/T48-5.jpg

One day, I'm looking forward to buildin some good ol' BFM Tubas or Titans. 'Till then, I've got them $80 used subs to work with. Couldn't build em that cheap, so I took 'em.

[djscrizzle]

Seconded. I did something similar on a Tuba-18 I built back in '09. I curved the outer mouth a bit. Lemme see if I've got a pic of that 'mod' I did...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/djscrizzle/IMG_0001-3.jpg

[Incognito]

Finally this thread made it as a sticky,it only took seven years but good to see all the same.

[DTR]

Finally this thread made it as a sticky,it only took seven years but good to see all the same.

We never bothered to sticky it because it was hardly ever off the first page anyway :)

[djscrizzle]

We never bothered to sticky it because it was hardly ever off the first page anyway :)

:tup: And if were off the frontpage, somebody usually ended up bumpin' it every 4-6 days as well.

[fueledbymusic]

I always wanted to build the tuba 24 You wont regret it! I love mines. I built these myself. took 2 weeks
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee435/fueledbymusic/DSC01313.jpg

[lastcat]

https://home.comcast.net/~lastcat/BFM/18.jpg

DR250's

[lastcat]

http://home.comcast.net/~lastcat/School%20Dances/Mark%20Morris%20Sept%2030/IMG_0002.jpg

Four 24" wide 3012LF T39's.

[Incognito]

I'll have to search for my old BFM speaker pictures, after having a hard drive failure & not knowing which external hard drive I used for backup makes it
a little tricky.

[fueledbymusic]

http://home.comcast.net/~lastcat/School%20Dances/Mark%20Morris%20Sept%2030/IMG_0002.jpg

Four 24" wide 3012LF T39's. Man! If I really love the performance of my pair of T24s 22" wide, I can imagine what those 4 are like!

[monomer]

Man! If I really love the performance of my pair of T24s 22" wide, I can imagine what those 4 are like!

I've sat in the mouth of four t36s


It's mindblowing, quite literary.

[Incognito]

I've sat in the mouth of four t36s


It's mindblowing, quite literary.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8571/img1730h.jpg

[monomer]

Those are t30's.


The 36s were downtown, and ran much hotter. I had a pic saved somewhere.

[monomer]

KMS rocking out on four THTs:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/Monomer001x/Shows%202011/DSCN0386.jpg

Crowd:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/Monomer001x/Shows%202011/DSCN0389.jpg

Detroit's most powerful end table:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/Monomer001x/Shows%202011/DSCN0383.jpg

[bigCcat]

Here are a few pictures of my rig.
They sound great and the four DR's can even be packed into a geo metro! Every time I play them we get great compliments on the sound. The biggest thing I like is how it just cuts right though the crowd, the sound carries a long way, and there is never a bad seat in the house:)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/j_dunavin/NauvooDJ3.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/j_dunavin/100_2656.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/j_dunavin/NauvooDJ5-1.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/j_dunavin/IMG_2775.jpg

Actually the metro fits, four Dr200's, two peavey IPS400's, two Peavey CEX4LA's, one Peavey 215EQ, Sound craft 16ch mixer, box of cable, box of microphones, two speaker stands, and me!

[djthunder]

Yo. Been a while, but I need to post something here out of respect. Built a pair of Tuba 30's, now running a pair of Titan 48's :)

[lastcat]

The 4 T39's are just hard to explain, they Rock! Even though they are off to my right side, about 25', they can be loud! But in a School Gym, ya need the volume. This system just is the Best, nothing like it. Clean, Clear and Loud.

[lastcat]

Nice work bigCcat, I recall seeing your post at BFM. From one Cat to another :bing:

[DJ Higgumz]

On the way for me are 4 t60s! they run at 105 db down to 25hz! gonna cost only 1000$!

[Incognito]

On the way for me are 4 t60s! they run at 105 db down to 25hz! gonna cost only 1000$!
Standard (unofficial) rules apply, post pics & keep us updated:tup:

[DJ Higgumz]

Standard (unofficial) rules apply, post pics & keep us updated:tup:

when i do it will be the question, but i will probably sell my dirtbike and other stuff i don't use. I plan on putting the thread on the bfm forums, but i will post a thread here with a link to the forum.

[Incognito]

when i do it will be the question, but i will probably sell my dirtbike and other stuff i don't use. I plan on putting the thread on the bfm forums, but i will post a thread here with a link to the forum.
Sounds good.

[whiterob]

On the way for me are 4 t60s! they run at 105 db down to 25hz! gonna cost only 1000$!

What driver's will you be using? I figured it is going to be around $7-800 for just two Lab 12 T-39's? but thinking I may need 4 now, just because

[DJ Higgumz]

What driver's will you be using? I figured it is going to be around $7-800 for just two Lab 12 T-39's? but thinking I may need 4 now, just because

Actually I forgot to mention it's 4 20" wide single lab 12 loaded I go for efficiency of power, no necesarily packspace

[Incognito]

Found a couple of my old Tuba pictures plus one slide show

http://img213.imageshack.us/slideshow/player.php?id=img213/76/1143881202lpn.smil

[Incognito]

My old BFM system.

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/2466/dscn21523rc.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3757/tuba4a5qd.jpg
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/3235/picture009ai9.jpg
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1663/picture006nr6.jpg

[ampnation]

The idea came from these 1983 vintage LAs my dad built... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/djscrizzle/PAStack.jpg
Aren't you the same guy whose dad put 1w through some high sensitivity speakers illustrating how wattage is highly overrated?

[Incognito]

Aren't you the same guy whose dad put 1w through some high sensitivity speakers illustrating how wattage is highly overrated?

Watts alone are over rated but in context it's a very important rating to consider depending on the sensitivity of the given speakers in question.

[ampnation]

I'm not in a spot right now to do it, but eventually I'll start actively marketing school dances. Before I do, I'll be building some BFM's with the top two goals being bass extension and faithful reproduction. I'll make as many as I need to reach my SPL goals which should be 4 to 8 cabs.

I'll be replacing my car at some point too and when I do that, I intend on loading the new one with an Auto Tuba.

I'll have to buy an update CD from Bill when I'm ready because my original CD is a couple of years old already plus I have no idea where it is.

[DJ Higgumz]

Have you made a choice on what design? If you have the packspace and strength go with t60 20" single lab 12. 4 of them would be great for a gym

[djscrizzle]

Aren't you the same guy whose dad put 1w through some high sensitivity speakers illustrating how wattage is highly overrated?

Different guy... But my dad used to have a vintage Panasonic boombox with speaker outputs that he'd hook these up to when he wasn't using them with a 100 watt DIY mono PA mixer/amp. Got nice n loud on a few watts.

[Leland Crooks]

Back in the saddle again.

[djscrizzle]

Good to have ya back, Leland.

[on1sony]

My Titan 48's being pushed in mono with my qsc RMX2450 amp.http://i41.tinypic.com/2hx4zgw.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2nu370w.jpg

[on1sony]

BFM Tuba 60 - What amp and speaker you guys push in each cabinet?

[Leland Crooks]

Speakers are determined by the plans. Lab12 and Lab15 are the recommended drivers.

[ampnation]

This is a question for Bill. My brain explores concepts all the time that might seem wierd to quite a few. One of the ways this manifested lately was a question about horn loaded subs and I don't know anyone who knows more about them than Bill Fitzmaurice. I suppose there are quite a few out there, but I don't know most of their names, let alone have access to pick their brains. Only Tom Danley comes to mind off the top of my head.

At any rate, I started thinking about how, if I had a nightclub I would strongly consider the use of horn loaded enclosures because of their high efficiency. As I understand it, the horn in typical horn loaded enclosures acts as a post-amplifier, taking the energy created by the traditional power amp, after it's been converted to acoustic energy by the transducer, and adding additional amplification. Obviously though, no additional energy is being added by the horn. So, I'm wondering a) how does it actually add amplification and b) is there a point at which additional horn path experiences a decrease in efficiency or even a negative effect? I suspect that we're dealing with two or more competing curves...that of the increased benefit halving with every x amt of horn path on the one hand, and the inverse square law being applied from the point of the driver itself as the point source.

My first thought was, if one had enough space, could you use a modestly powered but robust driver like those recommended in BFM cabs, but extend the horn until it had an opening say 8 or 10 feet high and roughly the same wide, and get tremendous output from very little energy? That's when I started thinking about the points above. Plus I'm sure the math changes things as one moves through the frequency range of the audible spectrum.

I doubt I'll ever be consulting for a nightclub being built where real estate is cheap enough to commit to 1/3 of the facilities footprint being committed to the horns for the speakers, but it is fun to explore ideas like this.. for me anyway.

[monomer]

A horn better matches electrical impeadance to acoustical. Toms got a great artical hosted on the dsl site.

[JamesRoss]

YES! this thread is back. quick, check out my speakers:

http://youtu.be/AuPJxr8Ljpw
i built 2 DR200s and a Titan 39. They sound FANTASTIC. I never bothered to paint them because I like the way they look unfinished.

[ampnation]

I assume this is the white paper to which you refer, monomer.


To meet this requirement the horn needs to be at least one-half wavelength long at the low frequency cut-off of the horn and the circumference of the mouth must be at least one wavelength.

As I understand it, the lowest audible frequency of 20 Hz has a wavelength of approximately 17m at sea level.

If we go a bit higher to 34 Hz as our low frequency cut off, we get 10m.

Half of that is 8.5 or 5 meters respectively so that would be the needed length for a traditional horn at the respective frequencies.

"Circumference of the mouth must be at least one wavelength" so assuming a square mouth, we're talking each side of the square is 1/4 of the full wavelength or 4.25 meters for 20Hz reproduction, 2.5 meters for 34 Hz reproduction.

In feet for those of us more used to that measurement, that's 14 feet and 8.2 feet respectively and these are the pertinent numbers to me. It isn't inconceivable to me to have a 14 foot square sub enclosure opening especially if it were located directly overhead with the body of the horn in an upstairs room or in open space above a suspended ceiling.

I'm wondering how much advantage this horn has in energy efficiency compared to something like a Titan, LAB12 or even a TH221 which I believe are all 1/4 wavelength designs. Also wondering if 1/2 wavelength designs have more flat FR curves apples to apples with 1/4 wavelength designs.

[DJ Higgumz]

yeah i heard on some other forum that people didn't understand bills designs, in how he doesn't have ripple because of the small mouth to wavelength ratio. some said that there is a ripple, it is just smaller than 1/3 octave so it isn't audible. idk i don't understand what they're saying, all i know is it works! I am soon building my slim t60s, for those who don't know it goes to 25hz 96db with a single 12 driver. if you do dual loaded it is 100db! when i make sawdust i will post a link to the build thread on bfm ;)

[ampnation]

yeah i heard on some other forum that people didn't understand bills designs, in how he doesn't have ripple because of the small mouth to wavelength ratio. some said that there is a ripple, it is just smaller than 1/3 octave so it isn't audible. idk i don't understand what they're saying, all i know is it works! I am soon building my slim t60s, for those who don't know it goes to 25hz 96db with a single 12 driver. if you do dual loaded it is 100db! when i make sawdust i will post a link to the build thread on bfm ;)

I'm assuming you're quoting sensitivity (1m/1w) decibels, not max SPL. Those are good numbers for sensitivity... not good at all for max SPL. I have the plans and could look it up, but can't be bothered. hehe

[DJ Higgumz]

Haha no. The fact it can be mistaken is just great.

I think max is 126 for single 12, and then if you corner load it you get an extra 6db and then since I'm building 2 you add 6 more for coupling and then you're sitting at a hefty 138db 1m! To think that's only 50v... (400 watts at 4 ohms, wired in series) going to cost me about 300 each to build. Mmmm low cost navy gravy!

[Dj DRPX]

Just a quick question. I don't have much experience with constructing stuff, but has anyone built a Tuba-24 with no to little previous experience in building this type of stuff? If so, how hard was it? I'm thinking it looks basic enough, but I'd just like a second opinion before I try to do it this summer. I know the site post a skill level 1-10, but that means nothing to me because I don't know who the scale is based off of. Thanks!

[ampnation]

Just a quick question. I don't have much experience with constructing stuff, but has anyone built a Tuba-24 with no to little previous experience in building this type of stuff? If so, how hard was it? I'm thinking it looks basic enough, but I'd just like a second opinion before I try to do it this summer. I know the site post a skill level 1-10, but that means nothing to me because I don't know who the scale is based off of. Thanks!

I've seen enough people talk about the difficulty to say only those with no common sense should be NOT able to build them. I have the plans but haven't built any yet. They don't look hard at all. I took one wood shop class in Jr. High School and wasn't anywhere near the best student. I haven't done anything since then (I'm 51 now) requiring the precision required here, but I'm confident I'll be able to build a decent cabinet following the plans.

[edited to make it say what I meant hehe]

[DJ Higgumz]

only build the t24 if packspace is premium. if you have the extra space, go t39, same frequency response just different spl. these cabs are light, much lighter than they look. my t39 i built 30'' wide weighs a little over 70lbs. many newcomers choose the t24 because they are dicouraged by heavy 18s and mdf of the same size and don't want to go bigger. same happened to me. i just want you to know that before it is too small! again this is my opinion and i don't know your situation or what your looking for, but keep in mind that the smaller the cab the smaller the hands need to be! and which ever route you go, there is no such thing as too much glue...

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

yeah i heard on some other forum that people didn't understand bills designs, in how he doesn't have ripple because of the small mouth to wavelength ratio.The same way that Danley doesn't: proper design. My cabs don't have any smaller mouth to wavelength ratios than his do. Tom's actually a newbie, he's only been doing horns for about 30 years. I did my first in 1969.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

could you use a modestly powered but robust driver like those recommended in BFM cabs, but extend the horn until it had an opening say 8 or 10 feet high and roughly the same wide, and get tremendous output from very little energy?Yes, but unless it's literally part of the building it's not practical.

[JamesRoss]

Just a quick question. I don't have much experience with constructing stuff, but has anyone built a Tuba-24 with no to little previous experience in building this type of stuff? If so, how hard was it? I'm thinking it looks basic enough, but I'd just like a second opinion before I try to do it this summer. I know the site post a skill level 1-10, but that means nothing to me because I don't know who the scale is based off of. Thanks!

The subs are super easy to build. The DR 200 (top) was a little bit of a challenge though. You should be fine. Just don't skimp on the glue.

[DJ Pyro]

4 Tuba30 16" wide with uhhhhh I think BP102 or something loaded... I can't remember but its one of the recommended drivers. I haven't used them in a few years, I'd actually consider trading them for a set of Tech 1200

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/399137_10100137187277503_1930024124_n.jpg

[Scott]

^Looks great man! I'm looking to build around 8 Tuba 30 eventually. Probably gonna build 1 pair at a time as I obtain enough funds. And looking at how well they perform, I'll need to get another pair of tops to keep up!

edit: Probably going to use the LAB 12 drivers

[DJ Higgumz]

lab 12 all the way!

[Scott]

lab 12 all the way!

I figured from reading tons of threads/charts that the performance will be much better with fewer cabs by using the good drivers. Normally it's a discussion of quantity vs quality, but I plan to have both. :D Chances are I'll be rocking 4 of 'em for a while until I can afford another set of SRX725, amps, etc.

[KLH]

I've read this thread for years, but always wondered about the practicality of making these subs active with passovers, independent volume, and thru features like retail subs.

Has anything been discovered that would be easy to add to the BFM subs that would be like this:

http://www.qscaudio.com/images/products/hpr/HPR181iControls_small.jpg

-KLH

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I've read this thread for years, but always wondered about the practicality of making these subs active with passovers, independent volume, and thru features like retail subs. There are no affordable DIY options. The primary independent manufacturer of OEM amps does not sell at retail, and outfits like QSC won't sell the amps because they don't want to lose the sale of a complete speaker. In any event there's no particular advantage to on-board anyway.

[DJ Higgumz]

Yes, active is a PITA. Subs should be in a corner, and if a corner is available then it is likely to be 50 ft away from your booth. And that means extra power outlets to worry about, and gain knobs you need to leave your booth to get to.

Let's say your onboard amp goes. That gives you less options when in crisis in the field. Not to mention the extra weight you have to carry at one time up a flight of stairs.

Active has it's up sides, less pack space, and some come with remote control linking for line array rigs. But not my cup of tea :)

[KLH]

There are no affordable DIY options... In any event there's no particular advantage to on-board anyway.
Thanks for the insight guys. Rep to you.

EDIT: I have to recharge, dammit!

-KLH

[monomer]

Someone needs to buy my 2x12 otops.


They need a new home. My pair of 1x12's suffice for the gigs I get.

[DJ Boom Bap]

Someone needs to buy my 2x12 otops.


They need a new home. My pair of 1x12's suffice for the gigs I get.



Pics, and price?

[monomer]

Pics, and price?

Posted in the BFM forum.


Where in MI are you? I'd let you inspect and I'll fire them up, even.

[DJ BONES]

I dont have 60 post yet on this new account, damn shame I had about 1000 on my old one but f*ck it.. Im selling a bunch of stuff good for BFM applications

CROWN XTI4000: $600 Shipped (Great Condition, Lightly Used)
Crown Drivecore XLS1500: $300shipped (Great Condition)
3015lf: $300 pair $150 each shipped (Good Condition)
2512(4): $100 a pc for the two inGood Condition; $90 a pc for the two in fair condition
Lab15: $150 (Fair Condition)
dbx 215: $100 (Great Condition)
Gator GR-2L, 2U rack case: $80 shipped (Good Condition)
Gator G-PRO-4U-19, 4U Rack case: $75 shipped (Fair condition)

Gonna start shipping to anyone interested after sep 25.. for the equipment i dont have offers for they will be thrown on ebay

[ronchee]

YES! this thread is back. quick, check out my speakers:

http://youtu.be/AuPJxr8Ljpw
i built 2 DR200s and a Titan 39. They sound FANTASTIC. I never bothered to paint them because I like the way they look unfinished.

how wide is that t39?

[Danimal]

Also interested in your cabs, how much are you looking to get for them?


Posted in the BFM forum.


Where in MI are you? I'd let you inspect and I'll fire them up, even.

[ampnation]

I was just explaining to someone in another post some of the benefits of BFM cabinets and I thought of a question for Bill.

I don't know much about CNC processes, but I understand you build a computer file that details the shape one needs cut, or the specific cuts and the precision can be very good. So what I'm wondering is, are all CNC machines from different manufacturers able to use the files from others? If not, is it possible, or difficult to port the file to another format? And the big question...

Would it be possible to create CNC files to go with the plans so someone could have a precision flat pack made locally?

I'm thinking with this option, even the screw pilot holes could be pre-drilled with little extra effort and by ensuring the cuts are going to be high precision, even the more difficult cabinets would, I think, be a simple matter of assembly including the gluing, coating, installing drivers, etc. Yes? I do understand that some woodworking projects don't allow for precut panels, and I'm thinking due to slight variations in how much PL people use and things like that, maybe it wouldn't work.

So Bill. What's your 2 cents on this idea?

[DJ Higgumz]

I am a metal machinist, and no, for the most part it is not universal. The toolpath can be sent as g code, which is a nearly universal code on alot of CNC machines, but the individual tools or "bits" will not be the same length or type in separate shops. These parts also have to be on mills with larger travel designed for panel cutting as most are within 4x2x2. You would need at least half sheets of ply.

If you have your own shop and know how to tool path you could ask the person who makes flat packs for the g code, and then pay them whatever for it.

I also thought about making molds for the dr throats, and making them out of fiberglass to sell. It would lighten the cab and builder labor!

[ampnation]

I am a metal machinist, and no, for the most part it is not universal. The toolpath can be sent as g code, which is a nearly universal code on alot of CNC machines, but the individual tools or "bits" will not be the same length or type in separate shops. These parts also have to be on mills with larger travel designed for panel cutting as most are within 4x2x2. You would need at least half sheets of ply.

If you have your own shop and know how to tool path you could ask the person who makes flat packs for the g code, and then pay them whatever for it.

I also thought about making molds for the dr throats, and making them out of fiberglass to sell. It would lighten the cab and builder labor!

Thanks. Always looking for that silver bullet to make things better for someone out there. Usually, there's a reason it isn't being done. Once in a while though...

[monomer]

You'd need to find someone with a cnc router, very few mills have enough travel. Many shops don't like dealing with wood - chips soak up to much oil/water and clog everything and cutting dry gets dust everywhere.

Tooling is defined per machine, and is called out in the programs g-code. Same with work offsets. Programming is 2d is pretty easy to do without software/post processing.

People do it, Hell people DIY cnc routers. Neither is cheap. Checkout cnczone.com


I personally have a a haas vf4 at my disposal at work, but I wouldn't dare ask to cut sheet on it.

[monomer]

Also:


Leland over at speakerhardware.com sells flatpacks/kits.


Already been done ;)

[DJ Higgumz]

I'm not familiar with CNC routers, but they should have a tool changer correct? For our mills if we have to mill fibrous materials or wood, we mount a vaccuum hose to the spindle, and it sucks up most of the chips.

[monomer]

I'm not familiar with CNC routers, but they should have a tool changer correct? For our mills if we have to mill fibrous materials or wood, we mount a vaccuum hose to the spindle, and it sucks up most of the chips.

None I've seen have a toolchanger setup. Most DIY's use a regular router motor with a VFD.

Vacs are terrible, unless its a micron filter. Filter size also determines what size particles are allowed to pass. Smaller particles do more damage to the respiratory system. I once worked in composite tooling: Lots of renboard and fiberglass floating around. Cyclone vac OUTSIDE.

TIL: Mastercam has settings for routers.


....but still no undo button

[Leland Crooks]

Also:


Leland over at speakerhardware.com sells flatpacks/kits.


Already been done ;)

Man I had completely forgotten about this forum. Thanks for thinking about me Monomer.
My stuff is not cnc, but considering I have close to 10k in tablesaws, my accuracy is pretty damn good. There are some of the cabs I just won't do flatpacks for. The expectation for a flatpack is lego simplicity. And you just can't do that without a cnc, and pretty much a redesign.

Tool changer CNC's get pricey REALLY quick. I've been checking them out for several years, off and on. One of these days.

[neonpachyderm]

Aren't you the same guy whose dad put 1w through some high sensitivity speakers illustrating how wattage is highly overrated?

Actually, I think that was me. I do recall telling about Dad's 1W experiment. No one could stand in the living room, and the audio was clear at the mailbox, which was a full football field away.

That said, I'm loving some of these BFM speakers. Seriously considering going with the PA version of the TLAH. Not sure yet. Got to price some components.

[fueledbymusic]

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee435/fueledbymusic/IMAG3210_zps88353384.jpg
I had my tuba 24s for 2 years now! I couldn't be more happy with them as of NOW! Especially since I'm using the crossover feature on my QSC GX3.

[P25CT]

Can someone give me an idea of raw materials cost and time for an average person with average ability to complete a Tuba60 with dual 12s?

[DJzrule]

Can someone give me an idea of raw materials cost and time for an average person with average ability to complete a Tuba60 with dual 12s?

Estimated cost is within the product page and the plans. Minimum cost for a 2x12" Tuba 60 is around $400 per speaker, and being a horn sub, it's recommended you build them and use them in pairs of 2. You'll get a ton more output, and a flatter frequency response but coupling or v-plating them (explained throughout the plans and Bill's own forum).

[DJ Higgumz]

It took me a week for a pair working 4-6 hours a day. X that by 2-3. I'm a fast woodworker. I built an autotuba in a day ;) also fyi t60s don't get vplated, the already long horn path makes it not a significant difference to make the use of space efficient

[Incognito]

You can save a lot of time if you do all the measurements & cut outs for one but not assemble it but instead use it as a template for the rest of your subs. I did this with my Tuba 30s & that dramatically cut down on my build time to just around 3-4 hours an evening for 3 evenings (make all cuts one evening, assemble the next then tape & paint on the last) for a pair of complete painted & ready to use cabinets.

[djhustle]

Hopefully starting on my subs this week after putting them off for a year lol. built the otop 12s and love them. only problem i'm having now is i have 2 bp102s and cant decide on which build to do.

i have the plans for both the tuba 24 and titan 39. kinda leaning towards the 24s for right now as i want to eventually have 4 t39s with the premium drivers. seems like it would be a waste to build the t39s with b102s only to have to build 4 more.

plus i could always use the t24s for smaller gigs or renting out.

[DJ Higgumz]

Go with premium drivers, one cab loaded with a lab 12 is the equivelent to 3 with bp102s... premium is better for performance and your wallet

[djhustle]

Go with premium drivers, one cab loaded with a lab 12 is the equivelent to 3 with bp102s... premium is better for performance and your wallet

yea that's what i was thinking. i bought the bp102s when i didnt have much money a yr ago, thinking about selling them. only problem is i need some subs by june 8th for a wedding i have booked. so i'm teetertottering between using the bp102s in some t24s to get me through this wedding and buying the premium drivers and taking my time building the t39s.

[DJ Higgumz]

just keep them. if it was a high school prom with lots of hip hop i would be worried

[P25CT]

Along same lines.. making a decision on bfm subs.. T60 is the choice, leaning toward dual 12s in a 30wide rather than a single 15 in a 27. A couple more hundred investment but seems per SPL charts its well worth the 5db increase in SPL.

Interesting though that the Titan 48 above 35hz or so outperforms a single 15" T60 at 30 wide. Thus if response below 30-35 isnt a big deal, and many times for us it really isnt, the Titan is a somewhat more economical build and less obtrusive in required floorspace.

Still I believe the dual Lab12 T60 is the way to go.

Just sharing some thoughts and my decision process here at the end of my long road of debating what to do...

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Interesting though that the Titan 48 above 35hz or so outperforms a single 15" T60 at 30 wide. Thus if response below 30-35 isnt a big deal, and many times for us it really isnt, the Titan is a somewhat more economical build and less obtrusive in required floorspace.
+1. I didn't add the T60 to the line because average DJs really need to have a cab that goes as low as it does, I did so because some of them think that they do. For most users T30, T39 or T45 are all they actually need.

[DJ Higgumz]

It's not a matter of if you need it, you want it, and it sure is nice to have it ;)

[P25CT]

For anyone thats used or heard both bfm tubas and yorky 801p's which model is comparable to the 801p for output and for a 60 or titan 49 how would you compare the two (2 801s for one 60)? Looked at spl numbers but you know how that can be deceiving... I recently heard a pair of yorky 801s and I gotta say if its got more on those then that would be somethin... Was planning two 60s in lieu of 4 801Ps. 3200 for a pair of 60s built plus another say 1000 for good reliable (qsc plx or rmx) amp for 4200 total vs 4400 for 4 yorkies powered.. My guess it would be close if not about the same.. of course the T60 will outperform 30-45 a given but that to me is moot and not a factor. Price breaker would be DIY on the 60s or 49s, however Im no Norm Abrams (most of you too young to know who that good man is). Good lord thats scary. Anyway..your feedback as always is worth its weight in gold... so thanks again in advance..

[ampnation]

Im no Norm Abrams (most of you too young to know who that good man is). Good lord thats scary.

I think the real tell tale on being old, would be remembering Bob Vila. I looked it up and I didn't remember Norm being there from the beginning but I guess he was. But Norm is still with the series whereas Bob Vila was around for 10 years, also from the beginning. I used to love watching that show.

[Incognito]

I can tell you this, either of the BFM designs would sound much better then the 801 & the full size T60 would leave the 801 in the dust performance wise as well.

[Incognito]

I think the real tell tale on being old, would be remembering Bob Vila. I looked it up and I didn't remember Norm being there from the beginning but I guess he was. But Norm is still with the series whereas Bob Vila was around for 10 years, also from the beginning. I used to love watching that show.

Heck, I still tell Bob Vila jokes to this day. I never stopped to think that some of thee people I tell them to just may not be old enough to even know who I am talking about & thus miss the whole point of the joke...

[fueledbymusic]

Hopefully starting on my subs this week after putting them off for a year lol. built the otop 12s and love them. only problem i'm having now is i have 2 bp102s and cant decide on which build to do.

i have the plans for both the tuba 24 and titan 39. kinda leaning towards the 24s for right now as i want to eventually have 4 t39s with the premium drivers. seems like it would be a waste to build the t39s with b102s only to have to build 4 more.

plus i could always use the t24s for smaller gigs or renting out. The 24s are great! The halloween party I did (in the garage). I had one guy commenting to me. "It sounds like you have more of those!" Meaning he thought I had more subs than the 2 I already have! With BP102s!

To this day, I have not regretted my decision on the 24s

[DJNR]

I am in the process of developing my build for two T30s at the moment and I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice on my specific situation.

The initial system I am building will be used for basement gigs of 150 people and will be used to play underground electronic music. As time goes on I will be expanding on the system in hopes of playing larger warehouse events. I picked the T30 because of what I consider a "traditional sub" shape, but maybe there is a better sub for future expandability.

In designing this system, I followed the Soundsonic "Sound for Underground Dance: The Technical Foundation" (http://www.unrec.com/sunsonic/sound2.htm) guide.

My initial build is as follows:
Sub: Two Tuba 30s
Drivers: Single loaded Eminence Kappalite 3012LF
Speaker Management: DBX Driverack PA 2
Amps: ...

...and that's where it starts to fall apart. I'm having a hard time deciding on an amp. I am a QSC fan so I took a look at their offerings, and the only amp that can handle two of those subs in stereo without bridging is the RMX4050a, which is a BEAST of an amp.

Am I missing something? Is there a more efficient way to attain the system I'm trying to achieve?

[Unknown DJ]

I am in the process of developing my build for two T30s at the moment and I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice on my specific situation.

The initial system I am building will be used for basement gigs of 150 people and will be used to play underground electronic music. As time goes on I will be expanding on the system in hopes of playing larger warehouse events. I picked the T30 because of what I consider a "traditional sub" shape, but maybe there is a better sub for future expandability.

In designing this system, I followed the Soundsonic "Sound for Underground Dance: The Technical Foundation" (http://www.unrec.com/sunsonic/sound2.htm) guide.

My initial build is as follows:
Sub: Two Tuba 30s
Drivers: Single loaded Eminence Kappalite 3012LF
Speaker Management: DBX Driverack PA 2
Amps: ...

...and that's where it starts to fall apart. I'm having a hard time deciding on an amp. I am a QSC fan so I took a look at their offerings, and the only amp that can handle two of those subs in stereo without bridging is the RMX4050a, which is a BEAST of an amp.

Am I missing something? Is there a more efficient way to attain the system I'm trying to achieve?

Look at an Inuke from Behringer. The built ion DSP is awesome and they are super light. I just got a Inuke 6000DSP and can pick it up with one finger. They are also really cheap I picked mine up for $399 from www.Sweetwater.com

[DJNR]

I'm not sure how I feel about trusting a Behringer amp to run a rave system for several years. Can anybody speak to the reliability of the iNuke series? I'm more of a buy once kind of guy...

[Unknown DJ]

I'm not sure how I feel about trusting a Behringer amp to run a rave system for several years. Can anybody speak to the reliability of the iNuke series? I'm more of a buy once kind of guy...

Inuke series is pretty new up there EP series has been solid. The Inuke 6000DSP only weights 12 pounds the RMX4050a weighs 68 pounds and is almost 4 times the price. You could put 2 Inukes in a rack for have the price and about 1/3 the weight. They also make a 4 channel non DSP version for $399.

[DJNR]

Inuke series is pretty new up there EP series has been solid. The Inuke 6000DSP only weights 12 pounds the RMX4050a weighs 68 pounds and is almost 4 times the price. You could put 2 Inukes in a rack for have the price and about 1/3 the weight. They also make a 4 channel non DSP version for $399.

I'm not doubting the weight or the power, I'm doubting the reliability. If I have to pay 4x the price to get an amp that will last me a lifetime, I'm alright with that. Regardless, I'll look into the iNuke series and see what people think.

[DJNR]

Aside from the amp choice, can anyone comment on my idea for the system design and its function?

[Windows 95]

Heck, I still tell Bob Vila jokes to this day. I never stopped to think that some of thee people I tell them to just may not be old enough to even know who I am talking about & thus miss the whole point of the joke...He's only been off the air for about seven years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Vila

Robert Joseph "Bob" Vila (born June 20, 1946) is an American home improvement television show host known for This Old House (1979–1989), Bob Vila's Home Again (1990–2005), and Bob Vila (2005–2007).
Plus I think his name & face are still on some Sears products.
Here's his web site:
http://www.bobvila.com

[ampnation]

He's only been off the air for about seven years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Vila

Plus I think his name & face are still on some Sears products.
Here's his web site:
http://www.bobvila.com

Thanks for pointing that out, whipper snapper.

[Windows 95]

Thanks for pointing that out, whipper snapper.My whipper quit snapping years ago. :lol:

Teacher: "Come to the blackboard & show us your answer."
Whipper Snapper; tries walking to to chalkboard with his legs crossed.

[light-o-matic]

LOL Norm Abrams.. I used to love watching This Old House and also Hometime years ago, because I love learning about building stuff.. also Junkyard Wars and American Chopper.. and other shows like that. But over time they added more and more commercials and promos until there is hardly any show, and they don't show you any of the details of anything or explain anything, they just flash from two seconds of this to two seconds of that. All these shows suck now and aren't worth watching. Around 8 years ago I ditched my cable.. then for a couple of years I had satellite because my gf at the time insisted on it, but for the last 4+ years, nothing but internet/netflix and I'm happy with that. I refuse to watch shows that are 50% or more commercials.. my time is worth more than that.

As far as the subs, yea, the Yorkville 801's output is very impressive and if you are a mobile DJ doing school dances with lots of hiphop and whatnot they are a great choice because really with the price + size + convenience + output + features (settings) on these you are getting a great package that is really unmatched. But as far as the sound they are really kind of boomy.. not nearly as nice as a lot of other subs. Personally if I were buying powered subs I'd rather have let's say four x QSC KW181 than two LS801P's, because they sound better. But if I was a mobile guy doing school gyms etc weekend after weekend I might feel differently and prefer the two 801's.

But as far as the BFM 60's.. Yea of course they are going to stomp all the above, because they are a MUCH bigger box. In bass, SIZE MATTERS. But of course you are going to have to move those suckers. And if you are in a small room you might have probs finding a place to put them.

[maelstrom99]

Aren't the th118's plans open source? I have a 'longer' term dream of building four of those. I am really wondering how they would sound face to face with tuba 60's.

[ampnation]

Aren't the th118's plans open source? I have a 'longer' term dream of building four of those. I am really wondering how they would sound face to face with tuba 60's.

As I recall, the TH118 plans are not open source, but a very similar cabinet, designed by Danley, is. The Lab18 subwoofer and its smaller cousin, the Lab15. Check out prosoundweb.com for details and a forum dedicated to the LAB. It is my understanding this isn't the easiest cabinet to build, but if you have the skills and shop, it could be rewarding. Resale would be a bit better than most DIY speakers due to it being well known, but not as high as commercial built cabs I don't think. There may also be restrictions on building for the purpose of reselling, but I don't think that applies here. If it does, check into that first.

Personally, I would be more likely to load a BFM with a LAB driver. I know there are some models which will work with it, and it is readily available at Parts-Express.

[Paris McBryde]

I can tell you this, either of the BFM designs would sound much better then the 801 & the full size T60 would leave the 801 in the dust performance wise as well.
i dont question the tuba 30,48,60 sounding better than the york 801 but i am curious how they compare in output.

Are there any measurements on them for their continuous/long term spl ?

[Incognito]

i dont question the tuba 30,48,60 sounding better than the york 801 but i am curious how they compare in output.

Are there any measurements on them for their continuous/long term spl ?

There are measured graphs found on each product page for different variants of the given BFM designs. I would say you could directly compare between them but Yorkville doesn't provide such information on their product pages so maybe you would have to contact them directly for such information.

[maelstrom99]

Here's a thought, those of you who are helping me setup my system on here will know I have a single pair of basstech 7's. I am thrilled with them, and really enjoy the sound of horns.

I know mixing brands/types of subwoofers is a big no no... but since they are both horn loaded, if I built 2 tuba 60's (in the far future) and stacked them on top of my basstechs... would they meld or clash?

Just wondering.

[light-o-matic]

Running different model subs together is possible.. a digital processor is really necessary to get decent results.
Running similar subs like one model 18 inch ported sub with another model ported 18, will usually work pretty well and if your only other option was to make it through the gig with half as many subs as needed, then despite phase and frequency response issues (which you can try to smooth out with the processor) it's usually worth it. Horns definitely require delay to match one up with the other and you can have other issues.. but again, if you have no choice other than to make do with too few subs for the gig, I would give it a go.

All that said, it's not ideal, and you shouldn't plan your system around that strategy. It's certainly not something you'll see full time pro's doing.. of course they can usually afford enough matching subs, since they are gigging regularly.

As I said before, you can make use of two sets of subs if you need to cover different frequency ranges and the subs complement each other in that way. In your case, you could use your BT7's from 60Hz down, since they are better down there.. and use your EV TX's to handle above that to 110-120Hz, taking some heat off the tops and giving you a cleaner kick.

[maelstrom99]

Running different model subs together is possible.. a digital processor is really necessary to get decent results.
Running similar subs like one model 18 inch ported sub with another model ported 18, will usually work pretty well and if your only other option was to make it through the gig with half as many subs as needed, then despite phase and frequency response issues (which you can try to smooth out with the processor) it's usually worth it. Horns definitely require delay to match one up with the other and you can have other issues.. but again, if you have no choice other than to make do with too few subs for the gig, I would give it a go.

All that said, it's not ideal, and you shouldn't plan your system around that strategy. It's certainly not something you'll see full time pro's doing.. of course they can usually afford enough matching subs, since they are gigging regularly.

As I said before, you can make use of two sets of subs if you need to cover different frequency ranges and the subs complement each other in that way. In your case, you could use your BT7's from 60Hz down, since they are better down there.. and use your EV TX's to handle above that to 110-120Hz, taking some heat off the tops and giving you a cleaner kick.


What a good idea!!! I am going to try just that. Thank you O sound guru :teef:

[light-o-matic]

Yer welcome, just be sure to put some delay on both your tops and your EV subs (but not on your servodrives) in order to compensate for the extra length of the horn. In other words, the sound from the driver in the horn has to travel a further distance than the others, before it reaches your ear. So you have to delay the others, so that everything arrives at the same time.

[maelstrom99]

I will do that. Can this be achieved by ear or should I calculate it? I have been one of the "by ear" learners for most things until now.

[Incognito]

I will do that. Can this be achieved by ear or should I calculate it? I have been one of the "by ear" learners for most things until now.

10.5ms

[maelstrom99]

10.5ms

*tips hat*

[fueledbymusic]

Should I build 2 more Tuba 24s, to have a total of 4 tuba 24s or have 2 bigger BFM subs?
Probably an easy question, hah? I'm thinking, the advantage of 4 tuba 24s, I can bring just 2, if space is limited, etc.

Or should I stay with my current 2 24s and do "premium" drivers. I have BP102s now

[monomer]

Should I build 2 more Tuba 24s, to have a total of 4 tuba 24s or have 2 bigger BFM subs?
Probably an easy question, hah? I'm thinking, the advantage of 4 tuba 24s, I can bring just 2, if space is limited, etc.

Or should I stay with my current 2 24s and do "premium" drivers. I have BP102s now

Find some hl10c's. Use clamps to hold them down (I think the hole spacing is different)

It's a completely different beast. I've used t39's loaded with them, and they blew my slims with the bp102s out of the water. Not sure how the new 3010lf work, I've not yeat heard one.


Do you NEED the extra extension?

[fueledbymusic]

I was wondering.

Although, I have never never heard the JBL, Yorkville, and other subs. However, I have heard the JBL JRX subs.

Which subs in today's (or "yesterday's) market do the tubas (particularly the 24s I have) compare to?

[truitt]

im thinking about building a pair of tuba 24s or tuba 30's for my bigger gigs. by big I mean 300-400 kids at prom in a gym or a outdoor gig. if I like them i'll build another pair and have 4. I have no idea where to start except I probably want 12's instead of 10's. are they only good for big areas like gyms?

[fueledbymusic]

im thinking about building a pair of tuba 24s or tuba 30's for my bigger gigs. by big I mean 300-400 kids at prom in a gym or a outdoor gig. if I like them i'll build another pair and have 4. I have no idea where to start except I probably want 12's instead of 10's. are they only good for big areas like gyms?

You gotta try them. They sound incredibly good! Lots of low end. And they do not need much power to run them. Obviously the 30s will be even more kick ass! But anyway, I love the 24s so much, I decided to build another 2. It is not expensive at all! I promise you, you WILL love it! I think you should go with the 30s. 12's will not fit in a 24, it will fit in the 30s.

Check out this thread I started just about a week ago in building a new pair of 24s. Progress and everything. It is a fun project.
http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?47425-A-subwoofer-embryo-in-my-house!

[truitt]

yeah. you and everyone else seems to love them. ill have to talk my cousin into building me a pair of tuba 30's. two should be good for me right now. its really important for me to get the most bass I can and try to keep the weight down. I have cerebral palsy and its hard for me to move a bunch of subs so if I can just use two tuba 30's instead of a bunch of heavy front loaded 18's that would help

[fueledbymusic]

The Tuba 24 weighed in at 50 lbs. Not too bad. I don't know about the 30s though. When I do any gig. I typically dolly in the two 24s easy! And I can do it myself.

[truitt]

that would be awesome. my 18's weigh 90lbs each so i'd be happy with anything under 75lbs.

[BigPanda]

Anyone in the UK built the Tuba subs? Interested in pricing as I imagine the BFM plans will all be US focused.

[truitt]

any driver recommendations for a tuba 24 or a tuba 30? can I put two 12'' drivers in a single tuba 30?

[Incognito]

any driver recommendations for a tuba 24 or a tuba 30? can I put two 12'' drivers in a single tuba 30?

All that information is found in the plans.

[truitt]

ok. ill just buy the plans then.

[fueledbymusic]

All that information is found in the plans.

Well, it's rypically BP102s (for the T24s). I don't know about the 30s though. I know for the T24, we can put two drivers in the cab. I'm sure a 30 can do this as well, As long as either cab is built wide enough.

[truitt]

will two drivers make much of a difference over one?

[highjump]

All these questions should be asked on the bfm forum.

[truitt]

then why is there a BFM thread if you cant ask questions about it?

[allensmusic]

then why is there a BFM thread if you cant ask questions about it?

you can but I think Bill checks the bfm forum more often

[truitt]

oh ok that makes sense. I bought the tuba 24 and 30 plans so I can look at the specs and decide which to build. I cant wait to hear them when theyre done though

[highjump]

You can ask here, but on the bfm forum theres more knowledge of bfm speakers.

On here, some have never heard of them, physically I mean.

[light-o-matic]

For years there was no BFM forum, this thread was one of the primary places people went to get questions answered. But when this forum went down for a while Bill set up his own forum and now he won't answer questions here because he wants people over there. Makes sense actually.

[allensmusic]

For years there was no BFM forum, this thread was one of the primary places people went to get questions answered. But when this forum went down for a while Bill set up his own forum and now he won't answer questions here because he wants people over there. Makes sense actually.


So much was lost when DJF went down......

[truitt]

I keep having issues signing up for the BFM fourm.

what I don't understand with the tuba 30 is the "better" the driver on the list of recommended 12" drivers the lower the sensitivity but it goes lower in hz. I get that you want the lowest frequency response possible but id kinda rather sacrifice the 30-40hz range in exchange for 4-6 more db of sensitivity. but I know specs can be deceving and tuba subs work differently then what im used to using

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I keep having issues signing up for the BFM fourm.
The issue is that you did not read this:
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3973

The key to a successful DIY build is to follow instructions.

[truitt]

thanks bill. I registered a few times cause I didn't see that before

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

thanks bill. I registered a few times cause I didn't see that before
It's the first topic at the very top of the page. :err:

[truitt]

when I was scanning through the topics/threads I ignored anything that didn't say tuba 24 or tuba 30

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

when I was scanning through the topics/threads I ignored anything that didn't say tuba 24 or tuba 30And this?
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

[truitt]

ive been reading through the "got a question" thread for a bit. I think im going to use a single lab 12 for a tuba 30 if it will get me the highest SPL. but I haven't decided how wide I want to make the box

[fueledbymusic]

ive been reading through the "got a question" thread for a bit. I think im going to use a single eminence KAPPALITE 3012LF for a tuba 30. but I haven't decided how wide I want to make the box

Hey truitt. So I take it, you are good at wood working right, obviously. And have a skil saw and a jig, right? When I built my first set of subs. I didn't feel 100% confident. And especially because I did not have any saws. I never even used a skil saw before:eek:. But suddenly I decided to give myself the GO! I went ahead and bought the skil saw and the jig saw. And found it was not that hard. The concept is simple. (For the T24 anyway). Every piece to put together are all the exact same width. Front, back and the entire horn "assembly". The sides are a "fixed" 24" x 24"

[truitt]

my uncle has all that. I also want to use a belt sander to put a round edge on the edges and corners

[truitt]

does sensitivity not matter with tuba 30's when it comes to SPL and how loud the sub is? I know in the lay out it said to look at driver displacement and not wattage but I wasn't sure about sensitivity and how important that was. I noticed most the recommended subs have low sensitivity ratings, most between 88-95dB of sensitivity.

[Evil Steve]

The sensitivity of the driver, in free air, does not translate to the sensitivity and response of the loudspeaker you construct. There are parameters listed (Thiele-Small) that can help a designer translate the qualities the driver has into the characteristics the finished loudspeaker will have.
There are computer programs that help do that.

You mentioned sacrificing frequency response (bass extension) in the very low bass range, for sensitivity. In the case of these designs, it's already been done. Bill has optimized his designs to accommodate a person with a limited budget, some woodworking skills, some time, and a desire for quality sound, within reasonable limits.
Every loudspeaker system is a series of compromises... Size, weight, bass extension, sensitivity, cost, ease of use, ease of handling... The list goes on and on. Bill's designs give the builder options. The builder just needs to decide what's best for his situation.

[truitt]

ok thanks. i'll just pick the most recommended driver then

[light-o-matic]

Any of you ever build or use the TH18 (xoc1) sub?

[Incognito]

Any of you ever build or use the TH18 (xoc1) sub?

I have seen a couple versions of these posted on various online forums some with videos posted some time ago but at the time I wasn't interested in building anything. I just don't know one persons version from another, there was one post with someone saying the version that was posted didn't sound like the original but that the builder should follow some link to a version that is claimed to be a direct clone. I would be interested in giving it a try if only I knew the difference between the available plans out there (that & if I was to ever find the time).

[light-o-matic]

Yes exactly, there are some big discussions out there, a bunch of build photos, plans, cut sheets.. It's apparently a very good box .. and designed to work with the 18sound drivers I have.. and to be similar to the TH118 which is awesome. So I'm trying to get down to the proper information...

[maelstrom99]

Yes exactly, there are some big discussions out there, a bunch of build photos, plans, cut sheets.. It's apparently a very good box .. and designed to work with the 18sound drivers I have.. and to be similar to the TH118 which is awesome. So I'm trying to get down to the proper information...

I would be extremely interested in this! I've looked through the xoc *sp thread, but I would love a more updated and thorough build guide. The poor mans th118!!!

[light-o-matic]

These threads on it are hundreds of pages, I'm working my way through it all. Looks like four of these with the B&C 18sw115 driver would deliver some pretty great results.. but I already have four dual 18 reflex boxes, 3 of them have the 18LW1400.. slightly less performance than the newer 18LW2400 that the box was designed for, which in turn is slightly less capable than the B&C.. but hey, the B&C driver is something in the 400's dollars, I own the other drivers... I'm still reading but it's a good move for me to get away from these huge dual br boxes. I'm not really interested so much in a "good for the money" build, this design seems more toward pro level performance (both output and sound) which is what I am looking for.. My system already attracts attention for its sound, so anything I add has to be up there in sound quality.

[fueledbymusic]

My T24s are MEAN now!
An awesome demo of my 4 Tuba 24s using the DriveRack PA+. Also demo a single one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPuxmCNg9ns

[truitt]

has any one built some DR250, DR280 or DR300 speakers. I thought they would be pretty cool for out door events.

[Incognito]

has any one built some DR250, DR280 or DR300 speakers. I thought they would be pretty cool for out door events.

You'll have to go on over to Bills forums, you'll find a number of owners there. http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=09f8f1030419a468a849e903922daccf

[fueledbymusic]

has any one built some DR250, DR280 or DR300 speakers. I thought they would be pretty cool for out door events.


You'll have to go on over to Bills forums, you'll find a number of owners there. http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=09f8f1030419a468a849e903922daccf


Are those supposed to be tops and subs in one? Can I get a simple answer of my question of curiosity here, rather than being redirected to Bill's forums?:)

[fueledbymusic]

has any one built some DR250, DR280 or DR300 speakers. I thought they would be pretty cool for out door events.

I found a video of those! This guy loves them!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcjeQ31_fVM

[monkeystyle]

Saw this and thought it fit in here... :D

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg177/Massivone/1070010_10200735874911094_1077689284_n.jpg

[ampnation]

That is AWESOME! He must be the ultimate BFM fan. LOL

[maelstrom99]

These threads on it are hundreds of pages, I'm working my way through it all. Looks like four of these with the B&C 18sw115 driver would deliver some pretty great results.. but I already have four dual 18 reflex boxes, 3 of them have the 18LW1400.. slightly less performance than the newer 18LW2400 that the box was designed for, which in turn is slightly less capable than the B&C.. but hey, the B&C driver is something in the 400's dollars, I own the other drivers... I'm still reading but it's a good move for me to get away from these huge dual br boxes. I'm not really interested so much in a "good for the money" build, this design seems more toward pro level performance (both output and sound) which is what I am looking for.. My system already attracts attention for its sound, so anything I add has to be up there in sound quality.

How do you think these drivers would do http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Eminence-Lab-12C-12-High-Excursion-LF-Subwoofer-4-ohm-Replacement-Speaker-/390904807598?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b03be00ae

[light-o-matic]

No idea, but it is designed for an 18 inch driver.. all the recommended drivers are 18. Not to say that it could not work with a pair of 12's but there would have to be some adjustment and I am not qualified to say what that adjustment would be.

I actually never got through the whole thread, things got busy.

Part of the way through a guy builds a test cabinet out of particle board or mdf just to measure it, and the frequency response isn't quite as predicted.. he did a good job with the build too, looks very precise. So then there's discussion as to what needs to be changed, and that's where I got busy and ran out of time so I'm not sure how the story ends. I'm still very interested though. I have still got my 4 x dual 18 boxes which happen to contain 6 of one of the suggested drivers for this project.. and I don't use those 18's much I am mainly using my four EAW dual 15 subs which in conjunction with the PL380 have been covering my recent gigs with ease. The temptation of this XOC1 design, if it has been worked out, is that it hits the sweet spot where I can get that few hz deeper response I want, and more output, while still fitting the whole rig into a standard uhaul van. If they really worked out I'd look at investing in the B&C driver which, while pricey, gives the most output per box. The problem with my current setup is that my dual-18's don't pack well in a van, so I don't use them unless the gig justifies a box truck. But the XOC's give (at least in theory) more output and somewhat deeper than my 15's in the same truck.

[maelstrom99]

No idea, but it is designed for an 18 inch driver.. all the recommended drivers are 18. Not to say that it could not work with a pair of 12's but there would have to be some adjustment and I am not qualified to say what that adjustment would be.

I actually never got through the whole thread, things got busy.

......... But the XOC's give (at least in theory) more output and somewhat deeper than my 15's in the same truck.


I was reading through this thread today, tons of different information, looks like some better builds out there, maybe the othorn or keystone? XOC and the keystone designer post here. Check it : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/270250-othorn-vs-xoc-th118-comparison-fun-3.html

[light-o-matic]

Cool thanks yea, the keystone looks cool too, tho it is quite a bit bigger which.. I will have to work out the truck pack, but will probably be an issue for me. But performance wise they seem to meet all expectations. The othorn is huge, like lab sub sized, which is def too large for me.. I'd rather have a smaller sub and have more of them.. even if they only go to 35-40hz

[maelstrom99]

Cool thanks yea, the keystone looks cool too, tho it is quite a bit bigger which.. I will have to work out the truck pack, but will probably be an issue for me. But performance wise they seem to meet all expectations. The othorn is huge, like lab sub sized, which is def too large for me.. I'd rather have a smaller sub and have more of them.. even if they only go to 35-40hz

I wasn't really even thinking about size, that is a consideration. This post was what I found most interesting from Xoc:

"I wish that the TH18 was not such a close clone of the Danley design as I feel this has stifled development of the design in the public domain. IE I feel wary about posting an updated version with a cone correcting Vee shape above the baffle.
Making the TH18 the same size as the TH118 was a mistake. Mostly because the TH118 is really a TH115 with an 18" driver shoehorned into it!
I would like to know what the effect is of double panel bracing around the mouth and adding a grille are, as I suspect that they would be beneficial to the lower end response of the speaker.
I wonder if the success of the TH18 is down to my concise documentation rather than any performance advantage!"

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

IMO if you want to talk about something other than my designs you should do it in their own thread. Thanks.

[light-o-matic]

It's been a long LONG time since this thread's been used to discuss speaker building.. which I understand you now discourage here and push over to your own forum Bill. So I'm not worried at all about disrupting existing conversations. When your speaker building discussion resumes here then you will have a valid objection.

maelstrom99: Yea unfortunately the dimensions of the Danley product happen to be a good fit with the rest of my gear in a truck :( But not the price at this time... But now that I have found that there is a really nice clean PDF plan for the Keystone http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/subwoofers/480211d1430328743-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers-art-welters-keystone-sub-v1.pdf and am able to really see that it is a bit smaller than the Danley and basically rotated from the TH118 in dimensions.. 22.5in deep x 25in wide, vs 22.5 wide x 28.5 deep for the Danley.. I see that by offsetting the wheel placement I may be able to get the truck pack I want: 4 subs, 2 dual 15 tops, 2 single 15 tops, 14U amp rack, cable trunk, 2 x powered monitors, decks/mixer(s)/stands/etc.. all in a standard cargo van. That is what I do now, it is a fine with my current 2 x 15 subs which are relatively small. The other thing I have to decide is whether I am ok with an additional 5 inch lift on my tops when stacked on the subs vs. the approx 40 inch height I get now. I would not mind a few inches more lift but 5 may be pushing it. Anyway it is something I am going to explore, I will go do some serious van measuring and see how it would all work. One thing I will say is that it does seem that the Keystone is for-real prosound and I trust Art Welter.

BTW speaking of gear I cannot afford, I went to an event this past weekend with an all-Danley system consisting of, in front.. two stacks each with an SH96 on three DBH subs. And in the back.. two stacks of an SH46 or SH50 on top of one DBH. Two racks full of Crest Prolight amps with a Sabine (Danley branded) processor. Very impressive bunch of hardware. I knew that this system was going to be there, it was one of the reasons I was looking forward to the event. Unfortunately, it sounded really disappointing :( When we first got there it was quite bass heavy.. the tops were just whispering really.. the bass was not deep either. Sure the DBH is intended for rock and roll and is not supposed to be a deep sub, but with three stacked I expected a flatter response, or should have been EQ'd. It was more of just a throbbing honk. Hours later, in the morning (this party went until 8), there was some correction.. the balance of bass relative to tops was straightened out, almost too much.. the bass was now not quite enough relative to the mids and highs. But it was a lot more listenable and was not bad.. it still did not sound what I would call great or even really good, I know what this gear is capable of, having had the chance myself to work several times with a Danley system with SH50's and TH215's.. also that it was running nowhere near its capacity in this size room. Def must have been some mistakes in processor settings combined with the corner placement of the stacks which resulted in this lackluster result, I was bummed at not being able to hear what it was really capable of.

[maelstrom99]

It's been a long LONG time since this thread's been used to discuss speaker building.. which I understand you now discourage here and push over to your own forum Bill. So I'm not worried at all about disrupting existing conversations. When your speaker building discussion resumes here then you will have a valid objection.

maelstrom99: Yea unfortunately the dimensions of the Danley product happen to be a good fit with the rest of my gear in a truck :( But not the price at this time... But now that I have found that there is a really nice clean PDF plan for the Keystone http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/subwoofers/480211d1430328743-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers-art-welters-keystone-sub-v1.pdf and am able to really see that it is a bit smaller than the Danley and basically rotated from the TH118 in dimensions.. 22.5in deep x 25in wide, vs 22.5 wide x 28.5 deep for the Danley.. I see that by offsetting the wheel placement I may be able to get the truck pack I want: 4 subs, 2 dual 15 tops, 2 single 15 tops, 14U amp rack, cable trunk, 2 x powered monitors, decks/mixer(s)/stands/etc.. all in a standard cargo van. That is what I do now, it is a fine with my current 2 x 15 subs which are relatively small. The other thing I have to decide is whether I am ok with an additional 5 inch lift on my tops when stacked on the subs vs. the approx 40 inch height I get now. I would not mind a few inches more lift but 5 may be pushing it. Anyway it is something I am going to explore, I will go do some serious van measuring and see how it would all work. One thing I will say is that it does seem that the Keystone is for-real prosound and I trust Art Welter.

BTW speaking of gear I cannot afford, I went to an event this past weekend with an all-Danley system consisting of, in front.. two stacks each with an SH96 on three DBH subs. And in the back.. two stacks of an SH46 or SH50 on top of one DBH. Two racks full of Crest Prolight amps with a Sabine (Danley branded) processor. Very impressive bunch of hardware. I knew that this system was going to be there, it was one of the reasons I was looking forward to the event. Unfortunately, it sounded really disappointing :( When we first got there it was quite bass heavy.. the tops were just whispering really.. the bass was not deep either. Sure the DBH is intended for rock and roll and is not supposed to be a deep sub, but with three stacked I expected a flatter response, or should have been EQ'd. It was more of just a throbbing honk. Hours later, in the morning (this party went until 8), there was some correction.. the balance of bass relative to tops was straightened out, almost too much.. the bass was now not quite enough relative to the mids and highs. But it was a lot more listenable and was not bad.. it still did not sound what I would call great or even really good, I know what this gear is capable of, having had the chance myself to work several times with a Danley system with SH50's and TH215's.. also that it was running nowhere near its capacity in this size room. Def must have been some mistakes in processor settings combined with the corner placement of the stacks which resulted in this lackluster result, I was bummed at not being able to hear what it was really capable of.


You are getting into some pretty tech packing and space considerations there. I'm very interested in your approach so keep me posted. If not here then start another thread with your findings, I will use and contribute! I have a Dodge van most of my smaller gear will pack easily into but my current LARGE subs (danley servodrives) won't fit in and therefore I would need to use a trailer (I have a nice open back trailer, obviously a box truck would be better but first things first) I would prefer a nice cargo van myself. Easier to drive, safer on gear, etc. My van is my DD though so I'm trying to combine as many things as possible. Anyhow keep me posted on the keystone I am going to dive into something soon enough here, I'd like to start when I have enough money and time to build a full system and do it all at once, use templates and knock it out. Will be saving and planning for a while. I might be asking a lot of my wood working skills, but we will see!

About the system you saw, it seems so often that there is one switch or setting on the processor, I know that happens a lot with production, where people will have a perfectly fine mix and then ruin it with a small detail or mistake, like an effect or mastering technique, or converting/down/upsampling wrong. It is a pity when a fantastic system is choked like that, worse than having a lower end system reach its potential

[truitt]

I just got a behringer Inuke 6000 for my BFM T48s I just got. we ran a 60hz tone from a sell phone at 100% on the amp and at peak on my mixer an used a voltage meter and got 98v from one channel continuously. which is awesome for a $350 amp. I also just got the DBX driverack PA+ which is incredible. the BFM t48s have 4ohm lab 15 subwoofers, and they're crazy loud and clear. they will beat any duel 18 but four good 18s will beat them

[fueledbymusic]

Damn, you built those yourself? They look really professional built! VERY NICE! I also have the driverack pa+ works so good with my set of T24s (4x)

[truitt]

no I bought them used from a guy who built them for himself eight months ago but wanted smaller subs. I got a great deal. I wish I could take credit for building them

[fueledbymusic]

no I bought them used from a guy who built them for himself eight months ago but wanted smaller subs. I got a great deal. I wish I could take credit for building them

Nice to be able to buy them already built. Its hard to find things like this. Before I decided to go with my T24s. I was originally looking for a used Mackie SWA1501 as the last resort over the rest of the subs. Because I heard about the sound quality was really good. While trying to find on craigslist...NO WHERE to be found. Really hard to find.

So I just went the T24s. At least its not the typical QSC or JBL we see "everyday" in the DJ world. (not that I'm trying to bash them in any way, except the price)

[truitt]

I went with the t48s cause they were the loudest and gave me the biggest bang for my buck. I would need at least four tuba 24's to equal the spl of my two titian 48's

[monomer]

Well, my rig of 2xotops and 4xt39 slims just sold.


They've served me well in the past six(ish) years. Still have a couple of wider t39's to load up, and new powered tops to buy.

[Incognito]

I am being asked (again) to do a repair/rebuild of my old T-30's that I sold 6 years ago (wow, time flies) since the person I sold them to has managed to blow all the drivers (I bought recone kits for him a couple years ago but he tried reconing them himself since he didn't want to pay me to do it for him so now two don't work & the other two are rubbing). He wants them to be now installed with 12" drivers (Eminence HL10a are hard to find now) so I'll have to find a way to squeeze some kind of cutter in there to open up the speaker baffle & I may have a harder time with one since it was left outside for some time & parts of it looks like it just may be rotten. I also have to make new driver covers for the Tubas since the new owner lost the 1/4-20 bolts I had securing the covers before so he replaced them with an overkill amount of drywall screws (he has scotch tape covering the old 1/4-20 holes). All this because the new owner didn't want to listen on using proper processing but instead used a Peavey Kosmos as his processing (I hate those things with a passion but they're popular here for some reason) with the synthetic bass enhancer (or as I like to call it the voice coil cooker knob) cranked 90% of the time to 3/4 full then powering them with far too large of an amp (Crest 9001). Don't think I'm going to take on the task though, it's hard to put in work for someone who doesn't follow advice & abuses something you put time into.

[monomer]

I am being asked (again) to do a repair/rebuild of my old T-30's that I sold 6 years ago (wow, time flies) since the person I sold them to has managed to blow all the drivers (I bought recone kits for him a couple years ago but he tried reconing them himself since he didn't want to pay me to do it for him so now two don't work & the other two are rubbing). He wants them to be now installed with 12" drivers (Eminence HL10a are hard to find now) so I'll have to find a way to squeeze some kind of cutter in there to open up the speaker baffle & I may have a harder time with one since it was left outside for some time & parts of it looks like it just may be rotten. I also have to make new driver covers for the Tubas since the new owner lost the 1/4-20 bolts I had securing the covers before so he replaced them with an overkill amount of drywall screws (he has scotch tape covering the old 1/4-20 holes). All this because the new owner didn't want to listen on using proper processing but instead used a Peavey Kosmos as his processing (I hate those things with a passion but they're popular here for some reason) with the synthetic bass enhancer (or as I like to call it the voice coil cooker knob) cranked 90% of the time to 3/4 full then powering them with far too large of an amp (Crest 9001). Don't think I'm going to take on the task though, it's hard to put in work for someone who doesn't follow advice & abuses something you put time into.

You charged him the Idiot tax, I hope....

[Incognito]

You charged him the Idiot tax, I hope....

I ended up not taking on the task, I directed him to a carpenter who I know does good work.

[light-o-matic]

I need new subs and have been revisiting the BFM designs.. years ago I paid him for the plans but never went forward.. but i still have the plans. My problem with most of them is that yea they are efficient but most capable in the upper end where I'm already crossing over. The Titan 48 does seem to be the one for output in the 40-70 range where I need it, def considering giving it a go. I potentially have the assistance of a professional furniture maker for whom building even the most complex box would be no challenge. But my concern is that I am well past the whole "Get a box rivalling $1500 pro boxes for half the price or less" kind of vibe. I already have boxes that sound that good. I need boxes that rival the big boy pro boxes costing $3000-$6000.

The Art Welter Keystone sub is pretty tempting, by all reports it's really good sounding. For me it's not enough to get a great box for the money, it has to be up there with the pro's in both sound quality and output. Right up there, no "for the money". Is the T48 actually capable of that?

[Incognito]

https://www.facebook.com/HennesseySoundDesign/ One of the guys from here made the claim to be in that uber class of subs with their "Battleaxe". Not a DIY via plans but they do sell flatpacks. Something familiar about certain aspects of some of their designs though....:freak:

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Something familiar about certain aspects of some of their designs though...'Familiar' isn't exactly the right term:
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23836
As to BFM being 'Uber Class', DR280s and T60s:

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13716121_10153805271508358_3123668243296506033_n.j pg?oh=9524fdb800cfe11560e821395968e522&oe=57EA3420

[Incognito]

'Familiar' isn't exactly the right term:
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23836

I had asked Sean directly on the similarities of the designs when he posted internal cut shots of his folded horns in a Facebook closed group of how his designs looked heavily based off of BFM designs. He claimed that while they have built BFM designs in the past but all of their designs where that of their own & any similarities where just by chance since all horn designs are based off of the same fundamental design. The similarities are just too close on too many of their designs to not notice where they got their designs from.

[Unknown DJ]

Bill should start selling flat packs.

[truitt]

'Familiar' isn't exactly the right term:
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23836
As to BFM being 'Uber Class', DR280s and T60s:

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13716121_10153805271508358_3123668243296506033_n.j pg?oh=9524fdb800cfe11560e821395968e522&oe=57EA3420
im not trying to be a ass to bill, cause I love his stuff. but give the Sean guy a break. its not like bill was the first to design folded horn subs either. any good folded horn sub design is gonna have similarities to BFM folded horn subs. after all how many different ways can a folded horn look? his are bigger and from what ive heard people say louder. bill made a thread about how he couldn't use 18s and I think most of sean's are 18s

[Incognito]

Bill should start selling flat packs.

You can already get BFM flatpacks https://www.speakerhardware.com/categories.php?cat=21&pg=3

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

im not trying to be a ass to bill, cause I love his stuff. but give the Sean guy a break. its not like bill was the first to design folded horn subs either. any good folded horn sub design is gonna have similarities to BFM folded horn subs. after all how many different ways can a folded horn look? That's simply not true. My horns bear some similarities to previous designs, but that's it, similarities. In many ways they're unique, unlike anything that came before them. Some of his cabs are virtual copies of mine. Making them larger to fit in bigger drivers doesn't equal originality. It's called theft of intellectual property.
I also did not say that I couldn't use eighteens. I said that I won't, because in a horn anything larger than a fifteen is unnecessary, if not counter-productive.

He claimed that while they have built BFM designs in the past but all of their designs where that of their own & any similarities where just by chance since all horn designs are based off of the same fundamental design.Hogwash. There was no more chance involved in their resemblance to my T30 and THTLP than there is a game of three card monty. All horns are based off the same fundamental design only in that one end is larger than the other. Both the T30 and THTLP have a number of features that are without precedent. Those features were copied by Hennessey. At any rate, it's in the hands of my lawyers now.

[truitt]

gotta say my DR250s I bought are very impressive. one easily out does my old prx715 speakers

[bigCcat]

Built these four T24s and two DR200s for a buddy.
I need to hurry and finish my six T45s..
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4zFKvDbILRbjC0O276CSLQ9CMWegK3cAChMJnxvyh94cWfIJ6 eyBd85g18Jow9Y-Ly86uzhBV_W6JE6gyq4xRv9KOexfbQIhotgCEFlGPEs9SN7uAB ySzJL0FQoZ2yJiN4jq-FgGw=w2400

[monomer]

^Nice!


I just bought a used pair of 250's. I've yet to even test yet.

[bigCcat]

post some pictures man, get those DR250s rockin'!

almost done with my six T45s and six DR200s
I'll post some pictures and a review after my gig on Saturday.

[bigCcat]

Gig went amazing! The six T45s absolutely rocked! You could even hear the metal ceiling tiles and rafters buzzing during set up :lol:
https://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=24926&start=45

[Delta V]

https://i.imgur.com/1bobyzCl.jpg

Last fall I built some Omnitop12s. I like the Otop12 design, love the mid range frequencies, they're easily built, but you can hear comb filtering just bobbing your head, uneven high frequency volume throughout the room and it's just too bright in the highs even with EQ. {Yes they were all in phase and wired correctly per the plans}

So I fixed it...

https://i.imgur.com/VBfhWL8l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UslXY2Dl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GlOjNJMl.jpg

I used a B&C DE250 1" compression driver with B&C ME15 horn. Sounds leagues better, no more comb filtering, constant volume everywhere. Was able to use the same structure. It still x/over at 2k hz but I would recommend lower if you go this route. You lose the "line-array" "capability" with this and I don't know how it compares to the BFM compression driver option, but that looks like a very hard build.

[Delta V]

Coming soon...

https://i.imgur.com/JVCFOwfl.jpg

Two Omnitop 212s and a pair of Titan 39s