PDA

View Full Version : Which turntable would you suggest?



Asaf Lavie
01-27-2013, 09:41 AM
I want to buy a turntable for scratching which I will use with a timecoded vinyl and as of now the options are:

technics 1210 mk2

stanton str8-100

vestax - pdx a2 mk2

Technics SL 1200

Which one of them do you suggest I should get? and is there anyone of them that you suggest I definitely should NOT get?
Also if you have ANYTHING to say about any one of them I would be very grateful.

Era 7
01-27-2013, 10:16 AM
most people on here will probably say technics 1200/1210 MK2 ;)

Windows 95
01-27-2013, 10:48 AM
I wouldn't get Technics SL-1200. The Technics SL-1200 MKII is the lowest I would go.

From your list the Stanton STR8-100 is the best turntable, especially for scratching. Although a pair of Numark TT-500, TTX, or TTXUSB would be your best option.

Original
01-27-2013, 06:21 PM
I want to buy a turntable for scratching which I will use with a timecoded vinyl and as of now the options are:

technics 1210 mk2

stanton str8-100

vestax - pdx a2 mk2

Technics SL 1200

Which one of them do you suggest I should get? and is there anyone of them that you suggest I definitely should NOT get?
Also if you have ANYTHING to say about any one of them I would be very grateful.
Look for used Stanton 150s. There's no reason to buy Technics anymore.

I wouldn't advocate buying the vestax - pdx a2 mk2 or Technics SL 1200. The only turntable from your list i would consider is the technics 1210 mk2, but I don't like the price.

Windows 95
01-27-2013, 08:41 PM
Look for used Stanton 150s.You get the best of both worlds with the ST.150 & STR8.150. A lot of torque like a Numark TT-500 & TTX, plus high end audio like a Technics SL-1200 series.

ewe
01-27-2013, 11:13 PM
Technics 1210s, without a doubt, they will probably outlive you

Nicadraus
01-27-2013, 11:45 PM
Technics SL1200/1210 series. Reliability, parts availability, build, performance. :tup:

Asaf Lavie
01-28-2013, 05:53 AM
What do you guys think about the technics sl-1700?

Windows 95
01-28-2013, 06:19 AM
What do you guys think about the technics sl-1700?Since it's a Technics the torque isn't going to be very good, so learning to scratch is going to be more difficult.
And since it has rotary pitch instead of slider pitch, controlling the pitch is probably going to be harder.

Nicadraus
01-28-2013, 06:44 AM
Since it's a Technics the torque isn't going to be very good, so learning to scratch is going to be more difficult.

Sorry Charlie but you're talking big time BS here. Whoever says that Technics torque isn't very good is illiterate about it. Q-Bert and countless of world famous DJs, scratch DJs, turntablists, DMC contestants, etc. can prove that Technics torque is the standard. Stanton and other OEM turntables just made theirs stronger which in my (and many others) opinion isn't really necessary. Because if you believe that Technics torque isn't enough, then you have a problem with your hands' weight pressing on the platter.

FYI: The torque of the SL-1300, 1400, 1500, 1600 & 1700 is almost identical to SL-1200 torque if they're not exactly the same.

Your Technics hatred had gotten out of hand in the past and you're still not over it yet.

Windows 95
01-28-2013, 06:55 AM
Sorry Charlie but you're talking big time BS here. Whoever says that Technics torque isn't very good is illiterate about it. Q-Bert and countless of world famous DJs, scratch DJs, turntablists, DMC contestants, etc. can prove that Technics torque is the standard. And most likely every single one of those people have no problem at all scratching on belt drive turntables. That doesn't mean that it's easy to learn how to scratch on belt drive turntables.

Just because people learn to scratch on 1200s. Doesn't translate as 1200s being the easiest turntables to learn to scratch on. Or the easiest turntables to scratch on, period.

I have no hate for Technics, at all.
It's just that they are way over priced & there are better DJ turntables out there.

Scratching on a cheap portable record player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4IR-EXorLk

Windows 95
01-28-2013, 07:11 AM
FYI: The torque of the SL-1300, 1400, 1500, 1600 & 1700 is almost identical to SL-1200 torque if they're not exactly the same.Since they probably all have the same motor in them, my guess would be the torque is identical. Which is to say, not very good.


Because if you believe that Technics torque isn't enough, then you have a problem with your hands' weight pressing on the platter.
Extremely weak argument.
In fact that argument is more of an endorsement to learn how to scratch on belt drive turntables, than to learn how to scratch on SL-1200 turntables. Since belt drive turntables have even worse torque than Technics turntables, you should learn to scratch on belt drive turntables so you don't have a heavy hand when you scratch.

Nicadraus
01-28-2013, 10:17 AM
Since they probably all have the same motor in them, my guess would be the torque is identical. Which is to say, not very good.

Only the 1600 has the same motor as the 1200, but the platter is different. So I think they may have slight torque difference. But I still don't agree with your "not very good" torque argument.


In fact that argument is more of an endorsement to learn how to scratch on belt drive turntables, than to learn how to scratch on SL-1200 turntables. Since belt drive turntables have even worse torque than Technics turntables, you should learn to scratch on belt drive turntables so you don't have a heavy hand when you scratch.

Not to brag but I am certain that I have held, spun, scratched, and mixed on more turntables than you did so I know what I'm talking about. That includes many belt driven turntables (Technics, Kenwood, Sansui, Sony, Pioneer, etc) when I was just starting out. I learned the basic scratch on a belt driven but performance can never be compared to direct driven.

Obviously, I have to defend the Technics SL-1200/1210 brand/name not only because I refurbish/rebuild/modify them and make a few extra cash on them but mainly because I love and believe on this product. No other turntable brand has given me the same happiness and satisfaction.

Windows 95
01-28-2013, 10:27 AM
I learned the basic scratch on a belt driven but performance can never be compared to direct driven.And the performance of a 1200 can't compare to the performance of a ST.150 or a TTX.

As a Hi-Fi record player I highly recommend any of the 1200 series turntables.
As a DJ turntable it's just way too expensive & under performing to justify even considering.

Nicadraus
01-28-2013, 10:30 AM
As a DJ turntable it's just way too expensive & under performing to justify even considering.

Ok then tell that to the millions of DJs who use, used and owned 1200s. Let's see if you can convince them and what majority of them has to say. Good luck.

Windows 95
01-28-2013, 10:35 AM
Ok then tell that to the millions of DJs who use, used and owned 1200s. Let's see if you can convince them and what majority of them has to say. Good luck.Would be as useless as trying to convince people who own Bose speakers, that Bose speakers are over priced & under perform.

Nicadraus
01-28-2013, 10:53 AM
Would be as useless as trying to convince people who own Bose speakers, that Bose speakers are over priced & under perform.

Hahaha! What a comparison. You will never give up this argument and will try to stand on your ground even if you have fallen many times. Admit it or not, your Technics hate has gotten old. Accept the true facts. You can never put a good product down. The Technics brand has been discontinued but the SL1200 remains to be the king of turntables that millions of DJs chose regardless of the other super OEM copy cats that came out.

Give it up Charlie. You've lost. You'll lose again.

ewe
01-28-2013, 11:01 AM
Ive only ever used technics and they are pure sex imo, wouldnt mind trying another brand tho, dont think they would compare

Windows 95
01-28-2013, 11:02 AM
the SL1200 remains to be the king of turntables that millions of DJs chose regardless of the other super OEM copy cats that came out.

The same can be said for the Bose 901 which has been around since 1968, was an immediate commercial success & is still popular today. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the best selling audiophile speaker of all time.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=737262 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=737262&is=REG&A=details&Q)

Nicadraus
01-28-2013, 11:22 AM
The same can be said for the Bose 901 which has been around since 1968, was an immediate commercial success & is still popular today. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the best selling audiophile speaker of all time.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=737262 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=737262&is=REG&A=details&Q)

I owned the 2nd gen 901 back in 1990 which was a hand-me-down from my cousin and I should say it sounded well. Not the best, yet it was good. But you are redirecting the topic to Bose which is irrelevant. The 901 was never abused and never a standard in clubs. The 901 is a home speaker and not a DJ turntable. The 901 isn't built like the 1200 was. So stop the comparison because they are totally different products.

Windows 95
01-28-2013, 11:38 AM
Totally different products, but the same weak sauce arguments used by SL-1200 fan boys like yourself can be used by a 901 fan boys.

i.e.

Expensive but justified because they are tanks that last forever. There are plenty of 901 speakers from the 1960s & 1970s that are still being used by people today.

Because they have been around for so long & so many have been sold. If you can't afford a new pair, you can buy used & have them refurbished.

If they aren't the best home speakers ever made, why do so many people own them?

Sure there are a lot of other audiophile speakers. And they might go lower & go louder. But nothing sounds better than 901.

ewe
01-28-2013, 12:01 PM
So what do you dislike about technics apart from the cost?

Windows 95
01-28-2013, 12:08 PM
So what do you dislike about technics apart from the cost?Nothing, just the cost & the Technics fan boys.
Technics fan boys make Apple fan boys look like the most reasonable open minded people on the planet.

ewe
01-28-2013, 12:11 PM
I picked up a 1210 when I was in the UK last for 80 quid from cash converters, a bargain imo, I dont wanna say what I paid for my pair here

Interracial Tea
01-28-2013, 12:18 PM
Nothing, just the cost & the Technics fan boys.
Technics fan boys make Apple fan boys look like the most reasonable open minded people on the planet.

So basically, you're cheap. I bet you're the guy who would rather eat at McDonalds than a restaurant with Michelin stars.

-J
01-28-2013, 12:18 PM
As a Hi-Fi record player I highly recommend any of the 1200 series turntables.

Argument out the window. The SL1200 are terrible as just a record player, way too much noise and rumble from the motor. Anyone who likes to listen to records and isn't bothered with DJing will tell you belt drive is the way to go because the motor vibrations are isolated from the platter.

drumpusher
01-28-2013, 12:19 PM
Charlie stop talking shite out your hole. Are you a scratch DJ? All your doing is rattling off specs you've read.

I mix, and learned on Stantons and I wouldn't piss on a pair if they were on fire. Get the SL1200 mk2. Stantons are built poorly and fall apart from my experience with them, in saying that though they will do the job provided you're never gonna leave your bedroom with them.

Windows 95
01-28-2013, 12:31 PM
Argument out the window. The SL1200 are terrible as just a record player, way too much noise and rumble from the motor. Anyone who likes to listen to records and isn't bothered with DJing will tell you belt drive is the way to go because the motor vibrations are isolated from the platter.With the exception of turntables costing thousands of dollars, the wow & flutter isn't very good on most belt drive turntables. Wow & flutter in my opinion is much, much more noticeable than motor noise. Direct drive turntables have very low wow & flutter. Motor noise is only heard when there isn't any music playing & maybe during very soft passages of music.

The SL-1200 is very quite for a direct drive turntable.
Keep in mind SL-1200's place in history. It was built as a Hi-Fi record player & was a hit as a Hi-Fi record player, before it was a hit as a DJ turntable.

DTR
01-29-2013, 02:10 AM
Stantons are built poorly and fall apart from my experience with them

Were they ST150s? If not then it's not a valid argument. If they were, what went wrong with them?

Windows 95
01-29-2013, 02:46 AM
So basically, you're cheap.If not wanting to pay extra money for an inferior product makes me cheap. Than I proudly admit to being cheap.

drumpusher
01-29-2013, 06:26 AM
Were they ST150s? If not then it's not a valid argument. If they were, what went wrong with them?

They were ST100s, and it is a valid argument because OP said one of the only options at the moment is a STR8100. The only difference is a straight tonearm as opposed an s one. They were alright bedroom wise, over the space of two years hauling them and gigging about town though buttons came loose, the casing came off on one the pitch sliders became loose to the point there was barely any resistance in them having to resort to the pitch bend buttons. Just shoddy overall. :P

Nicadraus
01-29-2013, 09:34 AM
Nothing, just the cost & the Technics fan boys.
Technics fan boys make Apple fan boys look like the most reasonable open minded people on the planet.

Look Charlie, you're falling down again. You keep on redirecting things. My being of a Technics fanboy is justified. Your hate is not.

You're a big JOKE! Grow up and stop whining about your Technics hate (or probably envy).

Finnish_Fox
01-29-2013, 01:21 PM
If they aren't the best home speakers ever made, why do so many people own them?

Worst. Argument. Ever.

VjQue
01-29-2013, 07:06 PM
Since it's a Technics the torque isn't going to be very good, so learning to scratch is going to be more difficult.
And since it has rotary pitch instead of slider pitch, controlling the pitch is probably going to be harder. these are the decks I learned to scratch and blend on.so your wrong.

djkvg
01-29-2013, 08:29 PM
i wouldn't say the torque on technics are bad, but aren't as good as the TTX or the 150. But it gets the job done. The reason why people choose the 1200s compared the the TTX is because its a tank. there are so many replaceable parts; i can't say the same for other tables.


and the 1200 isn't outdated....... don't say disrespectful things of such legendary DJ equipment. You wouldn't be where you're at if there wasn't the 1200s.


i suggest the 1200s cuz they also have high resell value compared to others

Windows 95
01-29-2013, 08:49 PM
i suggest the 1200s cuz they also have high resell value compared to othersValid point. (As long as you don't buy new.)

fatcatdj
01-30-2013, 01:02 AM
I've owned EIGHT 1200's....how about something different like a Vestax

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VESTAX-PDX-3000mkII-PDX-3000-mkII-mk2-PRO-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE-/280659209242?pt=US_DJ_Turntables&hash=item415897ac1a

Irrational_Fear
01-30-2013, 02:20 AM
I've owned EIGHT 1200's....how about something different like a Vestax

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VESTAX-PDX-3000mkII-PDX-3000-mkII-mk2-PRO-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE-/280659209242?pt=US_DJ_Turntables&hash=item415897ac1a

I've got a pair of Vestax PDX-2000-mkII on semi permanent loan (my mate now has no room for them with his CDJs) and I flippin' love them. He bought them second-hand way back in 2007(!) and used them pretty much every week till he got his CDJs last year, regularly being lugged in & out of cars, venues etc- and despite looking a little rough around the edges these days, they still function like new. Brilliant torque, a few extra features such as ultra pitch & straight tone-arm (if these things appeal), and they appear to be pretty much indestructible.

I can only imagine the 3000 is even better.

It's just a shame that I really don't like the look of the PDX series turntables!! :blank:

Asaf Lavie
01-30-2013, 03:45 PM
Thank all of you for all the help. I've just bought a technics sl-1200 mk2!
What do you think about this sound card:
http://www.planetdj.com/i--STEREOIO

And this mixer:
http://www.planetdj.com/i--M2NUMARK

I'm going to also need a cartridge, headshell, needle and a time code vinyl. Any suggestions what should I get?
Am I forgeting anyhing?
Remember I only want to scratch, not to mix

Nicadraus
01-30-2013, 07:57 PM
Thank all of you for all the help. I've just bought a technics sl-1200 mk2!


Good choice! :tup:

Windows 95
01-30-2013, 08:19 PM
Remember I only want to scratch, not to mixShure M44-7

Windows 95
01-30-2013, 08:24 PM
What do you think about this sound card:
http://www.planetdj.com/i--STEREOIO
I don't see a headphone output, does it have a headphone output?

For time code vinyl you need a soundcard that has stereo inputs & stereo outputs, plus a headphone jack.

American Audio VERSA PORT 4x4 Soundcard w/Mic/Hdphn/Level
http://www.planetdj.com/i--VERSAPORT

Or look for a used Serato SL1 system or a used Traktor system.
(I can't recommend Torq as I've had their soundcard crap out on me.)

fatcatdj
01-30-2013, 08:41 PM
Thank all of you for all the help. I've just bought a technics sl-1200 mk2!
What do you think about this sound card:
http://www.planetdj.com/i--STEREOIO

And this mixer:
http://www.planetdj.com/i--M2NUMARK

I'm going to also need a cartridge, headshell, needle and a time code vinyl. Any suggestions what should I get?
Am I forgeting anyhing?
Remember I only want to scratch, not to mix

OK cool, so you went standard missionary position with the 1200. However if you
get the same mixer I went and got, the American Audio MXR14 (or MXR10)
there won't be a need for a soundcard.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLVCeP84acM

Windows 95
01-30-2013, 08:54 PM
Oh wow, nice mixer. First time I've seen it.
How much was it?

fatcatdj
01-30-2013, 09:30 PM
the 14MXR is $299.99. NOT a Denon X1600 by all means but WTF, we're playing CRAP Mp3's :)

Windows 95
01-31-2013, 07:53 AM
NOT a Denon X1600 by all meansAs if I can afford a thousand dollar mixer on my pay. :lol:

fatcatdj
01-31-2013, 09:46 PM
As if I can afford a thousand dollar mixer on my pay. :lol:

Not to hijack this thread (but I already did) here's a thought. I bought 4 Denon SC3900's. Way over my head now.
I am selling 4 Denon HS5500's on flea bay and have some gigs coming up to try to break even.
I put the 4 Denons on my credit card (I know--bad move)

But as soon as I sell the Denons on ebay, I will transfer funds to my checking acct. and use that
money for a payment towards the 3900's. Also, all the gigs coming up---100% of the funds will
be put down towards the credit card funding.

What I did was empty out my Mastercard. Zero balance. Purchased the 4 decks and nothing else.
This will be the CC that will be dedicated only for paying off the Denons. There will be no confusion
about balances, nothing else charged on that card. (until there is a zero balance)

I suggest anyone who has or can open another credit card to do it this way so there won't be any
confusion on how much you owe on dj equipment you purchase, especially ones that are $1,000 or more)

Now if I lose my day job, I'm screwed and will have to resell the 3900's on ebay and most likely lose
$100 on each deck. But I'm thinking positive. Good luck!

PS---this is the way I paid off my hot tub last month! I opened up a Citibank ZER0 % interest card
for 14 months and put a $4,000 spa on it. I charged nothing but the spa, some chemicals, steps & hand rail
on it. Every month I put $250-$300 on the card so i can quickly pay off the mother f'er. It worked
flawlessly as I got to the finish line almost 2 months before the 14 months ended.
Warning: If you do not make it to the finish line you will end up paying huge interest charges for 14
months. Its kind of a scam but you have to read the fine print. Citibank is a business too. :)

murderline
02-02-2013, 12:15 AM
I recently bought a TTX-1 (the original model) in a flight case for $150. Pretty much mint condition which is surprising because it's an old deck. I actually REALLY love the features over 1200's: the adjustable pitch range, display that shows pitch fader position in % or BPM, key lock (if I'm playing real vinyl, that is). What I don't like is the design of the fader. Why is it rounded and covered with soft touch plastic?? It's all slightly sticky on the fader cover because it's been worn away. Why wouldn't they just make this smooth and flat plastic (aluminum would be nice) knowing it's going to get worn away? 1200's have the design on lock (minus the double 0 issue).

For the money, a used TTX is a good deal right now, if its in full working condition (I would also suggest the TT200's if you can find some cheap, I had a pair and loved them). I just wish this turntable felt like a real quality piece of pro audio gear and not a toy with some of these parts.

123xyz
02-02-2013, 06:59 AM
Would it be too much if i buy 2 Stanton ST150's for Timecode use only?Or a pair of TTX's would do the same job?

GaFFLe
02-02-2013, 07:44 AM
Thank all of you for all the help. I've just bought a technics sl-1200 mk2!

Best choice! :tup:
Fixed...

I've got a pair of 1210 M5G's that are for practice but I gig with a Numark NS6 for weight reasons. Someone mentioned Denon 3900's, which are next on my purchase list. Why did you purchase 4 of them? My concern is whether or not they're reliable. I already know they're a nice option to scratch on... absolutely better than any controller or CDJ-type option.

Asaf Lavie
02-03-2013, 07:01 AM
get the same mixer I went and got, the American Audio MXR14 (or MXR10)
It's a little bit too pricey for me, and It seems like it's a bit over qualified for what I need.
What do you think about the one I mentioned:

http://www.planetdj.com/i--M2NUMARK

There are alot of other decently priced ones in here:

http://www.planetdj.com/category_search_results.tpl

Can anybody recommend any of them?

Also, does anybody here has any exprience with "serato scratch live" or "traktor scratch pro", and if so, which one would you recommend for scratching?

Windows 95: This shure M44-7 is already mounted on a headshell. Is it good?
http://www.planetdj.com/i--M44-7-H

Windows 95
02-03-2013, 08:11 AM
Windows 95: This shure M44-7 is already mounted on a headshell. Is it good?
http://www.planetdj.com/i--M44-7-HYes
Keep in mind you're paying an extra $15 for the headshell.
http://www.planetdj.com/i--M44-7
If your record player (Or record players.) already has a headshell (has headshells), you're pretty much throwing $15 ($30) away. Because it's very easy to mount a cart to a headshell.

Era 7
02-03-2013, 08:42 AM
Also, does anybody here has any exprience with "serato scratch live" or "traktor scratch pro", and if so, which one would you recommend for scratching?


i've used both. currently using traktor scratch pro 2 with an Audio 6. serato is more of a streamlined program without bells and whistles while traktor has a lot of advanced features. either one will do the job though if you buy new TSP is much cheaper than SSL (250-300$ vs. 450$-500$).

DJzrule
02-03-2013, 09:10 AM
With the exception of turntables costing thousands of dollars, the wow & flutter isn't very good on most belt drive turntables. Wow & flutter in my opinion is much, much more noticeable than motor noise. Direct drive turntables have very low wow & flutter. Motor noise is only heard when there isn't any music playing & maybe during very soft passages of music.

The SL-1200 is very quite for a direct drive turntable.
Keep in mind SL-1200's place in history. It was built as a Hi-Fi record player & was a hit as a Hi-Fi record player, before it was a hit as a DJ turntable.

You're still COMPLETELY talking out of your asshole. Belt drive turntables have LESS wow and flutter BECAUSE the motor is isolated, and ironically usually has more torque than direct-drive turntables. HOWEVER, because they are linked using a belt, the benefits of this torque are lost because of slippage. Since belt-drives are used for mixing and listening rather than scratching, this is a non-issue.

And Windows 95, get with the times. The Technics are tried and true. I'd end up being able to use Technics 1200's without roadcases (protecting the tonearm at least) for years gigging, and would end up nicking/denting/scratching the shit out of Stanton or Vestax decks. Why do you think people buy them? Not for bells and whistles, they just work.

If you think you need more torque than a 1200mk2 provides, you're a heavy handed idiot who needs to practice his/her scratches.

Windows 95
02-03-2013, 12:49 PM
You're still COMPLETELY talking out of your asshole. Belt drive turntables have LESS wow and flutter BECAUSE the motor is isolated, and ironically usually has more torque than direct-drive turntables. HOWEVER, because they are linked using a belt, the benefits of this torque are lost because of slippage. Since belt-drives are used for mixing and listening rather than scratching, this is a non-issue.Obviously you have no idea what "Wow & Flutter" means.

This is a demo of extremely exaggerated Wow & Flutter:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cs6cFCiDsA

Most direct drive turntables have very low Wow & Flutter, because the plater is basically part of the motor & the RPM of the motor is Quartz controlled.

The SL-1200 series specifically:

Very low wow and flutter (0.01%), which means that the platter will stay within 1/100 of 1% of the desired speed

Compare that to this $25,000 Clearaudio record player:
http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Master-Innovation-Wood-Turntable

•Speed accuracy (measured): less than 0,05 %

Asaf Lavie
02-04-2013, 03:11 AM
Any thoughts about the mixer...?

Windows 95
02-04-2013, 03:24 AM
A used Rane TTM 56 is good choice for scratching.

Which mixers are you looking at?

Asaf Lavie
02-04-2013, 06:11 AM
The Rane TTM 56 is way above my budget.
I was looking at the Numark M2. I've read good things about it, and it seems simple and like it will fit my needs

DTR
02-04-2013, 06:31 AM
Very low wow and flutter (0.01%), which means that the platter will stay within 1/100 of 1% of the desired speed



•Speed accuracy (measured): less than 0,05 %



W&F and speed accuracy are not necessarily the same thing. A turntable at 45rpm could have an infinately small W&F, but spin at 45.02rpm, hence a 0.05% error. That may or may not be what's advertised here, but imo it's misleading either way (misleading advertising in the world of hifi? Never!)

I find it interesting that this, and many other hifi turntables, have massive thick platters. This is to reduce the effects of vibration, but it will also act like a flywheel to regulate the speed. Better engineering will also help this (ie better balancing, which I would expect on a $25k turntable)

Windows 95
02-04-2013, 06:42 AM
I was looking at the Numark M2.Buying a mixer that cost $80 new to scratch with is not a good idea.
Look for a used Stanton M.207 ($400 new) or a used Pioneer DJM-250 ($350 new).

Asaf Lavie
02-04-2013, 01:44 PM
I saw there's a mixer called stanton m.203 that looks really similar. Is it good?
What do I need to look for in a mixer? it basically needs to be well built and have a crossfader that can take an abuse, right?
Wouldn't it be better to buy something like the numark m2 and buy an INNOFADER PRO?

Windows 95
02-04-2013, 07:31 PM
I saw there's a mixer called stanton m.203 that looks really similar. Is it good?Stanton claims it has the same build quality as the M.207, which I find hard to believe since it's a hundred dollar mixer. I would pick it over the M2, since Numark has a history of releasing junk when it comes to their lower end products.

http://www.djbooth.net/index/dj-equipment/review/stanton-m.203-mixer/

The Stanton M.203 mixer is literally, the best two-channel mixer any DJ can purchase for only $100. The only mixer that I can say comes close is the American Audio QD5-mk2 which is priced at $150 but is also a very worthy entry-level scratch mixer. The overall quality of the mixer is exceptional. It is built with the same materials (all steel inner chassis) and workmanship found on the much more expensive Stanton M.207. The included Alpha Crossfader is more than adequate enough for beginners and veterans to pull off their entire scratch inventory without fear of destroying its integrity.

You can transfer an Inno-fader to a different mixer, so there's really no issue if you do buy one.

HBBoogie
02-04-2013, 08:00 PM
American Audio Dv2 - Comes with an optical crossfader, soundcard, and midi for $249.99 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG5ID_5SPz8

Or a DJ Tech DIF-1s - Comes with mini Inofader for $149.99 http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?20026-New-%A399-149-scratch-mixer-with-a-mini-Innofader-in-it

murderline
02-05-2013, 03:07 AM
Pick up a Vestax on eBay. No sense in buying new junk when you can find quality gear used.

Asaf Lavie
02-05-2013, 03:28 AM
The DJ Tech DIF-1s looks real good! But I couldn't find any store that sells it in the U.S

Asaf Lavie
02-05-2013, 04:22 AM
Oh and another thing.
I see that all these mixers have headphone outputs. Why do I need a headphone output in both the mixer and the sound card?

HBBoogie
02-05-2013, 04:52 AM
Oh and another thing.
I see that all these mixers have headphone outputs. Why do I need a headphone output in both the mixer and the sound card?

You don't. The Headphone jack is there just in case you're trying to use a midi controller that has no sound card/headphone jack.


The DJ Tech DIF-1s looks real good! But I couldn't find any store that sells it in the U.S

It's brand new and hasn't (fully) hit the market yet. It should be shipping everywhere in the next few weeks.

Asaf Lavie
02-05-2013, 05:45 AM
You don't. The Headphone jack is there just in case you're trying to use a midi controller that has no sound card/headphone jack.


I don't see a headphone output, does it have a headphone output?

For time code vinyl you need a soundcard that has stereo inputs & stereo outputs, plus a headphone jack.

American Audio VERSA PORT 4x4 Soundcard w/Mic/Hdphn/Level
http://www.planetdj.com/i--VERSAPORT

Or look for a used Serato SL1 system or a used Traktor system.
(I can't recommend Torq as I has their soundcard crap out on me.)


So this means I can get the "Numark STEREO i/O Analog To Digital DJ Interface" for less then half the price of the "American Audio VERSA PORT 4x4 Soundcard w/Mic/Hdphn/Level" if the only issue is the headphone output, right? or is there another reason I should consider the American Audio sound card?

mix4fix
02-05-2013, 11:31 AM
Speaking of torque, didn't DJ Tutor put out a video asking for a manufacturer to install switch that would reduce the torque?

HBBoogie
02-06-2013, 06:35 PM
So this means I can get the "Numark STEREO i/O Analog To Digital DJ Interface" for less then half the price of the "American Audio VERSA PORT 4x4 Soundcard w/Mic/Hdphn/Level" if the only issue is the headphone output, right? or is there another reason I should consider the American Audio sound card?

Numark STEREO i/O Analog To Digital DJ Interface - This only has two stereo inputs and one stereo output. You will need at least, two stereo phono inputs and two stereo line out outputs.


What kind of software are planning to run?

Serato Scratch live only works with SL sound cards. SL1, SL2, SL3, SL4.

NI Traktor Scratch only works with NI audio sound cards. Audio 4, Audio 6, Audio, 8, Audio 10.

Virtual DJ can use many different sound cards, but only recommends a few. http://www.virtualdj.com/products/hardware.html

I think the cheapest way to go (with Virtual DJ) would be the Maya44 sound card or the American Audio Versa Port that Windows 95 already posted.

fatcatdj
02-06-2013, 10:14 PM
...is this thread still going? Like Ferris Bueller said at the end of the movie...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRJ38y4Jn6k

Asaf Lavie
02-07-2013, 10:21 AM
I decided to go for the American Audio DV2 USB and use traktor scratch pro. Will they work together?

Windows 95
02-07-2013, 10:44 AM
I decided to go for the American Audio DV2 USB and use traktor scratch pro. Will they work together?Sort of, because you'll still need a Native Instruments audio interface since Traktor is proprietary.

Asaf Lavie
02-07-2013, 04:27 PM
So I'll only be able to use it as a mixer? That kinda defeats the purpose of buying it.
So I'll only be able to use it with virtual dj? Would you guys recommend using virtual dj for scratching?
I'm sorry i'm being a pain, but this whole dj equipment shit is really confusing. I'm a keyboard player and I know how importent it is to know your equipment before you buy it.

TheRabbitMonk
02-10-2013, 02:18 PM
1210's rule all other decks. Used numarks, vestex and Gemini.

murderline
02-11-2013, 06:33 PM
Meh...

They're really good but not everything for everyone.

Key lock is amazing to have. My ears can't stand discordant blends.

Asaf Lavie
02-13-2013, 04:10 AM
I ordered everything I need and am waiting to get it.
I want to thank all of you! you've all helped me tremendously

Windows 95
02-13-2013, 08:52 AM
Would you guys recommend using virtual dj for scratching?Basically Serato is most popular with scratch DJs, Traktor is most popular with mix DJs & Virtual Vinyl is most popular with mobile DJs.

But all three types of DVS' can be used by all three types of DJs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reDKpKZ5EXQ

DJAlexKayne
07-02-2013, 11:07 AM
...I know I'm jumping onto this thread late, but the Technics 1200 turntable series has been king of the DJ world since the 70's for a reason.
I really don't care about manual specs. Those numbers mean very little to me in the real world of DJ'ing especially if you make a living at it. The 1200s are workhorses with motor drives so strong and so much torque they feel like if you stood on the platter they could spin you around. You could upgrade them to straight arms if you're a scratch maniac. There is a reason why at one point they were installed in every major dance club around the globe. Some 30+ year old 1200 series are still in use today. You can't sat that about Geminii, Numark, Vestax, Stanton, or any other make. In this case, you get what you pay for. I am curious however to see how the new Reloop RP6000 mk6 stacks up against the King. Anyone get their hands on a pair of Reloops? Maybe a new thread about 1200s vs Reloops is in order? As the 1200s become rarer in existence, it is apparent the jury is still out on what turntable will reign as the next king.

Sigma
07-02-2013, 11:37 AM
^^Arguments like this aren't very good ones really. If you're going to bring up torque as a selling point and the turntable having a strong motor, well, perhaps you should look how much torque other turntables have first. Technics 1200 have the lowest amount of torque of any high end direct drive DJ turntable.

There are lots of DJs that don't use Technics as their first choice. Qbert prefers STR8-150s: -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3P1PhQHjos

Unkut uses PDX: -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4UJ31EDqmU

DJs like that who are really giving turntables a real beating/workout, wouldn't choose decks that weren't up to the job.

Technics fanboys do get upset when you say that their decks aren't the best though, but for me they aren't and haven't been since the Vestax PDX-2000 came out years ago, and there have been several other better alternatives released since then.

djdiggla
07-02-2013, 11:48 AM
1210 or str8 150

Christen.a
07-02-2013, 12:18 PM
Now that Technics are no more (R.I.P) if you want to buy a new set of turntables its got to be the Stanton STR8-150's. I had a look around but most places don't seem to stock them anymore, but then I found this site http://www.getinthemix.com/dj-equipment/turntables/stanton-dj-turntables/str8-150-stanton-str8-150-turntabel.htm :) You cant go wrong with these if I didn't still have my original technics 1200 mk2's I would be all over these little babies!

DJAlexKayne
07-02-2013, 01:44 PM
...As I said, I don't care about manufacturer specs. Those dolts can plug in any numbers they want. The 12's have plenty of torque, even if they are the lowest in spec terms. In recent years, there are a lot more turntables available, which is a good thing - one can choose to work with whatever they feel is best. I've been using 12's since the 70's. I will continue to use them. That does not mean I won't purchase a set of STR-150's at some point, or whichever table takes its rightful place. In terms of history, the 12's have made it into more DJ's capable hands, worked more clubs, battles, more sound systems, have had more vinyl placed on them, and have reached more sets of ears over the past 3 decades than any other deck. Far more of an accomplishment than any knockoff with a reverse switch. You can beat on any 12 just as hard as those shown. Maybe Qbert prefers his Stantons but in this clip as you know, it's the 12's that are in the Octagon. You can down Technics all you want, you can throw around the word Fanboy in forums. It doesn't matter to me. My choices are mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxgKCmGVnG0

kir mokum
07-02-2013, 01:59 PM
other turntables have higher specs (torque, start speed, brake speed, pitch range) but the 1200 has a build quality way beyond them and a lot of those specs can be changed in the 1200 (start/brake speed, pitch range) and the torque is more than enough unless you are shit at scratching or your hand weighs 50lbs on the platter. the tone arm assembly, pitch fader, platter, strobes, pop up light, durability, longevity, repairability, etc, etc. are all higher quality, more thought out, or just plain better on the 1200 (yes, the leads are far from great). the tone arm on the vestax are fucking awful, lack of strobes is irritating sometimes, the pitch response is weird (on the PDT-5000 anyway) and switching from the digitally controlled pitch of vestax tables to the quartz lock response of a 1200 and vice versa takes time getting used to and you WILL have to make the transition since zero clubs worth playing at have anything but 1200s to play on. i would never buy a vestax turntable (again). they were the biggest waste of money. i think they lasted 2-3 years. i haven't used a stanton turntable in probably 10 years but they feel cheap as hell and straight tone arms have their own set of problems. and anything comparable to the 1200 is going to be about the same price, built worse, last 1/2-1/10th as long, and you will rarely use them outside of your bedroom.

Sigma
07-02-2013, 02:45 PM
Technics fanboys in full effect!

PDT-5000? You haven't used Stanton decks for 10 years? lol.

Technics have massive torque! Oh wait, other decks have more? In that case, I don't care about specs any more and I'll waffle on about history.

Dear lord......

kir mokum
07-02-2013, 02:59 PM
wat? :/

DJAlexKayne
07-02-2013, 03:02 PM
...waffle? oh, a Brit. That explains a lot.

Sigma
07-02-2013, 03:15 PM
wat? :/
What decks aside from Technics have you actually used? The Vestax PDT-5000 are fucking ancient.

As for well thought out, you know that the 1200 was designed as a home hi-fi turntable, yeah? I'll tell you what's well thought out. Having RCA cables that connect externally. Having no ground wire. Having a target light that just pops off so you don't have to carry out brain surgery to replace a bulb. Having dual start/stop buttons so that they're well placed no matter if you have your decks regular or battle style. Having no centre click on the pitch slider. Having a separate quartz lock button.

When you start using terms like "quartz lock response of a 1200" I have to question if you even know what you're talking about. Quartz lock kicks in automatically on Technics 1200 turntables when the pitch slider is at 0 and the green light comes on. Quartz lock isn't a feature that's unique to Technics 1200 turntables either.

Vestax turntables have an analogue pitch slider too. Some of them have a digital pitch display, but that doesn't mean that the pitch slider is digital and goes up and down in small steps like on CDJs. But comparing a PDT-5000 to the current Vestax PDX models is like comparing a 200 bargain basement laptop to a high end Ultrabook.


...waffle? oh, a Brit. That explains a lot.
Well, you were waffling on about the torque of Technics turntables until I said that they have the lowest torque of all the high end turntables, then you started blabbering on about how many clubs they're in and how many people have heard music played off them and what have you. Pointless shit.

KLH
07-02-2013, 03:44 PM
While I just bought Stantons and are getting used to TTs, I wonder why there's so much reverence for the Technics line. It seems solely due to the longevity of life, not performance. They are constantly modded to address grounding, the center click, and double-zero issues. Yes, the motor lasts forever, but is that really enough to justify being the best TT?

What led me to Stanton's 150 line is that knowledgeable turntablists always conceded that the Stantons are superior in every performance measurement. Still, being based on a Hanpin TT clone of the Technics line, the reason that Stanton 150s aren't perceived as better is because they aren't likely to last longer than Technics. To that, I say okay. Give me superior turntablism performance because that's what I want to learn.

If simply mixing, just about any direct-drive TT with a pitch-shift will work, right? In that case, it's simply the vinyl feel that people are after because mixing isn't impacted by differences in torque.

-KLH

kir mokum
07-02-2013, 04:01 PM
What decks aside from Technics have you actually used? The Vestax PDT-5000 are fucking ancient.

a lot (vestax, gemini, numark, random old ttables with pitch, hacked together frankentables...) but i haven't used any non-standard turntables in a long time because almost no one i know has them, if they do they're never brought to a show, and i wouldn't want to use them anyway.


As for well thought out, you know that the 1200 was designed as a home hi-fi turntable, yeah? I'll tell you what's well thought out. Having RCA cables that connect externally. Having no ground wire. Having a target light that just pops off so you don't have to carry out brain surgery to replace a bulb. Having dual start/stop buttons so that they're well placed no matter if you have your decks regular or battle style. Having no centre click on the pitch slider. Having a separate quartz lock button.

i mentioned the leads. the MK 5s have LED target lights. i agree that changing the bulb isn't great (by a long shot). i've never had an issue with the placement of the start/stop. there's no centre click on M3Ds and later models. and most turntables that compete with the 1200 have pitch reset buttons and the quartz lock is only in effect when the reset button is used (vestax, stanton numark...).


When you start using terms like "quartz lock response of a 1200" I have to question if you even know what you're talking about. Quartz lock kicks in automatically on Technics 1200 turntables when the pitch slider is at 0 and the green light comes on. Quartz lock isn't a feature that's unique to Technics 1200 turntables either.

the pitch is continuously quartz controlled across the pitch fader range which is unique to the 1200. vestax decks are digitally controlled and the response of the pitch faders is noticeably different (some people like it, some people don't, my point is that they're different and since 1200s are ubiquitous in clubs, that's an issue if you own non-technics). what failed on my vestax decks was the motor control and it rendered them unplayable. at the time vestax was fighting with stanton who was their n. america distributor and they weren't honouring their warranties (which is partly why stanton's first line of turntables and mixers looked exactly like vestax mixers) and i was going to have to send them across the country with no guarantee that they would be fixed or if the repair would even last.


Vestax turntables have an analogue pitch slider too. Some of them have a digital pitch display, but that doesn't mean that the pitch slider is digital and goes up and down in small steps like on CDJs. But comparing a PDT-5000 to the current Vestax PDX models is like comparing a 200 bargain basement laptop to a high end Ultrabook.

the PDT-5000 had an analogue pitch read out and was the same price as the 1200 but the motor control for vestax decks is digitally controlled (they all are). it was one below their flagship model which is the one that had the digital readout. the PDX line was a slight step down, AFAIK (like $50/table or something over here). and considering the MK5 came out shortly after, i think they're a pretty fair comparison.



as for the torque, more doesn't mean better. it's one baseline feature among many. i've never heard anyone have an issue with the torque on a 1200 unless they're super heavy handed and amateur scratch DJs. and i wasn't going on about their history.

Sigma
07-02-2013, 04:51 PM
the pitch is continuously quartz controlled across the pitch fader range which is unique to the 1200.
What would be the point of engaging quartz lock at 0% if that were true?

As for torque, I have heard DJs say that the extra torque of non-Technics decks makes a big difference, UK DMC champion Muzzell for instance. It depends what you're doing I guess. If you're just doing straight up mixing, then any high end decks will do the trick (despite what Technics fanboys say) and I have never had any problem adjusting to using Technics when I've used them at clubs or at friend's houses. I prefer the extra torque of the STR8-150s both for scratching and mixing though and I've had mine for years and they still work great. No way would I downgrade to Technics - and for me, it would be a downgrade and a hindrance (largely because of only having a +/-8 pitch range).

As for going on about their history, I was talking about the other guy.

kir mokum
07-02-2013, 05:13 PM
the quartz reset locks it to exactly 33 1/3 or 45 as it was originally designed as a hi-fi turntable and with continuous pitch it would be difficult to find that exact point for listening purposes especially since pitch values can drift (something that happens in any analogue gear).

page 4 top left.
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/SL1200MK5.PDF


you *can adjust the pitch range of the 1200 to +/- 10% but you start losing accuracy. on the vestax (PDT-5000 at least) the pitch response isn't linear so when you need to beatmatch outside of +/- 4% they're way less accurate.

Sigma
07-02-2013, 05:27 PM
The Technics 1200 has a centre click on the pitch, so it wouldn't be difficult to find that point at all.

+/-10 is still way too narrow for me. I need +/-50 sometimes.

At the end of the day, if I get 2 copies of the same song perfectly beatmatched on my STR8-150s, I can play them all the way through and they'll stay locked. In fact, ProfessorBX did the same thing with another Super OEM turntable in his review: -


Setting up doubles of various dirtstyle records and putting them in phase, I found that the motor’s wow and flutter was low enough to keep the records in phase for an entire 10 minute side, which is unheard of in a table of this price class.
http://www.djworx.com/skratchworx/reviews/hdt45.php

Maybe you're doing blends that are longer than 10 minutes though. :D You should get a set of Super OEMs and try them.

kir mokum
07-02-2013, 05:43 PM
The Technics 1200 has a centre click on the pitch, so it wouldn't be difficult to find that point at all.

well, the MKIIs don't have a reset button (it's built into the centre click) and the M3D and later have the reset button because they're continuous.

owning anything but 1200s makes no sense for me.

DJ COOKIE
07-16-2013, 04:41 PM
I personaly have 4 technics 1200's and love them i have had my first set for 21 years and i just resently ended up with 2 more I wont trade them for anything else , now if you cant get technics get the vestax 2200 they are very good

djpenguin
07-16-2013, 05:34 PM
What would be the point of engaging quartz lock at 0% if that were true?

This is a common misconception. Although people like to call the click/green light/0% pitch combo "quartz lock", it is a misnomer. The quartz crystal is used for motor timing, and quartz lock merely means that the platter speed will jump immediately back to its set speed after a drag/speed-up instead of slowly coming back to the proper speed. On the 1200 series, quartz lock is always on unless you perform modifications to the main PCB to disable it.

The center click (on MK2s) or the reset button (on M3D +) is a switch that turns the pitch control circuitry on and off.

Once upon a time the SL-1200 was the only design that used quartz motor control, but that stopped being true after their motor design patent expired in 1997. Vestax's PDX-A1 was the first turntable to copy the Technics motor design after the patent expired.

DJAlexKayne
08-02-2013, 03:50 PM
..."Well, you were waffling on about the torque of Technics turntables until I said that they have the lowest torque of all the high end turntables..."

Not true.
Here is what I said in response to your low-torque waffling: ...As I said, I don't care about manufacturer specs. Those dolts can plug in any numbers they want. The 12's have plenty of torque, even if they are the lowest in spec terms.

..."then you started blabbering on about how many clubs they're in and how many people have heard music played off them and what have you. Pointless shit".

Pointless only if you're a jealous hater, you've been living under a rock, or are deaf, dumb and blind. The 1200s undeniable history is absolutely relevant to this thread. Like it or not, it's part of DJ heritage. Our thread starter was considering turntable choices. Ultimately he made the right choice.

Sigma
08-02-2013, 05:25 PM
lol@me being jealous of Technics 1200s. Some of you Technics fanboys are fucking dongs.

DJ Retro Blaze
08-03-2013, 10:46 AM
So what do you dislike about technics apart from the cost?

For the OP, I just want to point out one main issues that I have with Technics 1200/1210, which might also pertain to some of the other turntables listed as well.

With the exception of the M5G, the pitch control is on Technics turntables is limited to +/- 8%. Depending on the genre of music the OP is planning to DJ, the aforementioned information should be taken into account.

eugguy
09-06-2013, 05:26 PM
I've owned a lot of the technics line. Rocked 1200s for a while, now on M5Gs. I actually like the performance of the 1200's analogue pitch vs the digital of the M5G. I don't see any reason to go above 8% regardless of any genre you spin. With or without master tempo/key lock, everything sounds "off" above 8%. If you are spinning "vinyl", real vinyl, then this is a different story all together.

Estacy
09-07-2013, 03:33 AM
Yes the Technics have the ' lowest' torque, yes the technics have no features, yes the Technics are expensive, yes there you cannot buy them new.
All this is true but irrelevant. Technics have something that other turntables simply don't have, its the feeling. Everything on a technics has this great feel. To the heavy yet smooth pitch, the way the motor correct to adjustments, the tonearm that simply has zero play, the long travel and firm click of the play button. The cold faceplate in the winter, the pop up lights that always have shot springs and just jump up. The pitch that doesn't work around the center click. And best of all, this is the same on every Technics around the world.

Adzm00
09-07-2013, 08:40 AM
Techs have enough torque, but there is no denying other tables have better specs. Technics will definitely last ages, I can't say I know so much about all the other options though, because there are a fair few options.

Either way, if you know how to use turntables you won't have a problem using a stanton or a technics. It's pointless arguing over it, they are both great turntables.

Finnish_Fox
09-07-2013, 08:58 AM
I agree with Ecstacy. Specs are one thing, feel is a whole other. While I'm sure there are decks that can more than handle the job, there is smoothness to the 12s.