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Johnnotestine
02-20-2012, 08:51 PM
I was getting some great advice on which subs to purchase from DJF 1.0. I am now closer to actually buying, and am hoping I can get some more help!

My current speaker/sub setup is:

2 – FBT Verve 12m passive speakers (300w RMS@ 8 ohms, Maximum SPL: 123dB)
2- FBT Verve 15a active speakers (450w RMS, Peak power: 1900w, Maximum SPL: 123.5dB)
2 – Danley TH-mini’s (Max SPL: 135db, Sensitivity: 101db, Mag Response: 48-200hz, Power Rating: 1400W)

I am looking at purchasing one of the following:

2 – JBL PRX-XLF’s (Max SPL: 129db, Freq response: 50-100hz, Power Rating 600w) $2000
2 – FBT Verve 18sa (Max SPL 126.5, Freq response: 33-100hz, Power Output: 600w RMS) $3000
2 – Yorkville LS801P’s (Max SPL: 140db, Response: 45-150hz, Power Rating: 1500w peak) $2250
1 – Danley TH-118 (Max SPL: 143, Freq Response: 35-250hz, Power Rating: 3600w) $3000

I mainly DJ weddings and school dances. The TH-mini's will still work well for many of the smaller weddings I do, but I would like more and lower bass for the school dances. I would prefer active boxes, but I would consider passive boxes that are a good deal (I realize the Danley's are passive). I am also open to other choices/suggestions.

Questions: Which would sound the best with my current speaker setup? Which would give the loudest/lowest bass?

I am currently leaning toward the JBL's. The single Danley 118 made the list because I love my TH-mini's. I would hopefully purchase a second 118 and amp; however, that would probably be a ways off.

Thanks!

windspeed36
02-20-2012, 09:10 PM
I'd go the FBT's because you've got FBT tops. They will be engineered to work together well. The LS is a very heavy sub but goes louder than the JBL which goes deeper. The Danely will probably overpower your tops, yes you can set them up so they are at a good output level ratio however that goes out the window when you change your main volume

Johnnotestine
02-20-2012, 09:25 PM
Well I will have to look harder at the FBT's and see what I can get them shipped to Alaska for.

So you really think a single th-118 would overpower my active 15's and 12's?

windspeed36
02-20-2012, 09:29 PM
You'd certainly run out of tops before you run out of bass with the Danely sub

Paris McBryde
02-20-2012, 09:39 PM
in order of choice.

Danley TH-118
Yorkville LS801P’s
JBL PRX-XLF’s
FBT Verve 18sa

Johnnotestine
02-20-2012, 09:41 PM
Paris - Even considering I can only currently afford one TH-118 and an amp?

Rors
02-20-2012, 09:48 PM
(I realize the Danley's are passive)

Danley make a powered version of the th-118, Am looking at getting four of them myself :)

Johnnotestine
02-20-2012, 09:53 PM
Rors - Any clue on the cost of that active?

What tops are you going to use?

windspeed36
02-20-2012, 10:01 PM
Keep in mind also the current an power draw that you will create/require if you use the Danely

Johnnotestine
02-20-2012, 10:04 PM
I should be fine with current/power draw. Most of the schools I play at have access to and plenty of circuits.

Rors
02-20-2012, 10:07 PM
Yes there around 4000 but thats including delivery to the uk.

I have a pair of Turbosound TA 500DP that are fantastic!

Actually have a pair of Turbosound TSW 218DP subs that am not entirely happy with hence the reason for the Danley upgrade.

windspeed36
02-20-2012, 10:11 PM
Its not circuits and amps you should be concerned about, more about actual wattage - I haven't got the specific details for the Danely infront of me but if thats 3600w constant your going to have a bit of a problem

Johnnotestine
02-20-2012, 10:20 PM
Windspeed - Problem, how so? Not enough power for the amp? Not a big enough amp?

Paris McBryde
02-20-2012, 10:20 PM
Paris - Even considering I can only currently afford one TH-118 and an amp?

hell yea, the danley TH-118 is in a totally different league as compared to all the other subs. also 1 danley will go louder , lower than 2 of the other subs while having better sound quality.

Incognito
02-20-2012, 10:28 PM
A cheaper option then the Danley TH-118 that performs right in line with it & also comes in a powered version would be the JTR Orbit Shifter. http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/orbit-shifter/

windspeed36
02-20-2012, 10:32 PM
out of a standard 120v/15amp wall socket paris you only get 1800w - thats only half the supply needed if the Danely has a constant power rating of 3600w

Johnnotestine
02-20-2012, 10:33 PM
Icognito - Looks good, but I can't find a price for the powered version. Any idea what it goes for?

Incognito
02-20-2012, 10:39 PM
out of a standard 120v/15amp wall socket paris you only get 1800w - thats only half the supply needed if the Danely has a constant power rating of 3600w

OK a few things wrong here, first the maximum constant draw of any circuit is not to exceed 80% of it's capability so a 15 amp circuit shouldn't have a constant draw exceeding 1,440 watts or the equivalent 12 amps.

The 3,600 watts listed in the spec of the Danely TH118 is based on the built in amp modules power delivery to the driver, not the draw from the wall. There actually isn't any mention of power requirements from the wall listed anywhere on the spec sheet that I have notice at a glance http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/TH%20118%20spec%20sheet.pdf Actually looking over the spec sheet some more this is a passive sub "The connectors shall be Neutrik NL4" though a powered version is available. Here are the amp modules that are used in the powered version http://www.speakerpower.net/ & here are the power draw charts http://www.speakerpower.net/uploads/4/9/5/7/4957539/specifications_sp.pdf so you'll be fine powering these.

Incognito
02-20-2012, 10:41 PM
Icognito - Looks good, but I can't find a price for the powered version. Any idea what it goes for?

Send a email on over to Jeff & he'll get back to you pretty quick, he used to offer the price but I guess more people where ordering the passive version so he now does the powered version to order but his prices are decent compared to other offerings.

windspeed36
02-20-2012, 10:42 PM
OK a few things wrong here, first the maximum constant draw of any circuit is not to exceed 80% of it's capability so a 15 amp circuit shouldn't have a constant draw exceeding 1,440 watts or the equivalent 12 amps.

The 3,600 watts listed in the spec of the Danely TH118 is based on the built in amp modules power delivery to the driver, not the draw from the wall. There actually isn't any mention of power requirements from the wall listed anywhere on the spec sheet that I have notice at a glance http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/TH%20118%20spec%20sheet.pdf

Cheers for that, I only figured that off the top of my head - we've got completely different power here in Australia..

Incognito
02-20-2012, 11:00 PM
Cheers for that, I only figured that off the top of my head - we've got completely different power here in Australia..

No problem mate.

Johnnotestine
02-20-2012, 11:53 PM
If I decide to go with the 118, what amp would you recommend? I saw Gaffle ran a single 118 with a QSC PL325. I have a RMX 2450 running bridged mono for my Mini's. Would this be way too small for the 118?

windspeed36
02-21-2012, 12:04 AM
Nah, it should be okay not that i'm a big fan of bridging amps. The TH118 is 1800w continuous and 3600w program at 4ohm...

Keep in mind it weighs in at 160lbs, and has a continuos output of 108dB compared to 98db sensitivity for the FBT 15A's

DJStevieRay
02-21-2012, 12:07 AM
The RCF 705's or 905's sound great with FBT MAXX's, I have a friend that has that combo, I cannot comment though with the Verve tops, as I have never heard them.

Johnnotestine
02-21-2012, 12:10 AM
Yeh, prolly not ideal but saves me from buying one right away.

I understand what your saying about overpowering my tops. The thing is, can you have too much low end at school dances? Also, I'm not too worried about the weight because I have an enclosed trailer with a ramp.

Incognito
02-21-2012, 12:11 AM
If I decide to go with the 118, what amp would you recommend? I saw Gaffle ran a single 118 with a QSC PL325. I have a RMX 2450 running bridged mono for my Mini's. Would this be way too small for the 118?
If you're going to passive you may as well go for the JTR Orbit Shifter since you can get them for under $2,000 (plus shipping) & you'll still be getting the same performance & quality as the Danley at a cheaper price.

Incognito
02-21-2012, 12:12 AM
The thing is, can you have too much low end at school dances?

Yes, trust me you can & the results isn't pretty...

Johnnotestine
02-21-2012, 12:17 AM
I'll look hard at these and see what my shipping will be, sometimes we get hammered being in Alaska. There is a local company that can get Danley shipped at a reasonable price. No clue what my JTR options are.

Incognito
02-21-2012, 12:45 AM
I live on an island & my shipping rate from JTR was unbelievably reasonable when compared to other systems I have had shipped. Jeff will work with you & get you as decent a shipping rate that can be found but really with the savings from just the speaker alone compared to the Danley will put you ahead of the game. Also JTR has a buy more save more program where as the more speakers you buy from him (doesn't have to be all the same type or even at the same time) the more you save & the customer service is first class.

Rors
02-21-2012, 12:56 AM
Has anyone compared the Danley th-118 against the JTR Orbit shifter?

Incognito
02-21-2012, 12:59 AM
Has anyone compared the Danley th-118 against the JTR Orbit shifter?

Yep, been done but it will take a search on the ole web to find it. Results came out pretty much even.

But a quick side by side spec for spec at a glance goes a little like this

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tapped_horn.asp?MODEL=TH%20118

http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/orbit-shifter/ (Jeff still needs to update his webpage a little)

Both weigh in at 160 pounds, the Danely has a -4db to 35hz while the JTR has a +/-3db to 37hz, the Danely reachs a max continuous output of 137db while the JTR reaches a continuous output of 139db. (It needs to be noted that these are the REAL WORLD SPL figures). The Danley is 4 ohms & 3,600 watts program while the JTR comes in either 8 ohms or 2 ohms & 4,000 watts program.

Paris McBryde
02-21-2012, 01:37 AM
Has anyone compared the Danley th-118 against the JTR Orbit shifter?
ive only compared them on paper but both companies are known to be honest with their specs. the biggest difference between these 2 subs is only price and for that reason i too would go with the Orbit shifter. but the danley is definitely a sexy mfin sub....lol

windspeed36
02-21-2012, 01:47 AM
I'd need to check with Bill or Dick Rees but aren't horn loaded subwoofers very directional - not offering great horizontal coverage? I.e if you want to use them successfully don't you need atleast 2 side by side centered? I may be wrong..

Incognito
02-21-2012, 01:56 AM
I'd need to check with Bill or Dick Rees but aren't horn loaded subwoofers very directional - not offering great horizontal coverage? I.e if you want to use them successfully don't you need atleast 2 side by side centered? I may be wrong..
Yeah you just could be...

Bass is omni directional & when you get into this league of subs one can prove to be too much for some applications.

Check what one T60 can do

BSn0oizGxFs

Though when you go into multiples with this class of subs it just gets sweeter.
Staring DJBman & his four Orbit Shifters

YVK7adzBOh8

I just love how they all just disperse.

Then you have the simply insane use of multiples

8TNjr91FxaA

windspeed36
02-21-2012, 02:04 AM
...I just remember seeing it somewhere - I think on PSW someone was saying something about a lack of horizontal coverage

Incognito
02-21-2012, 02:15 AM
...I just remember seeing it somewhere - I think on PSW someone was saying something about a lack of horizontal coverage

You're thinking of quarter wave length.

Johnnotestine
02-21-2012, 02:24 AM
Local dealer told me the same thing(need 2) when I was looking at the 115's.
The JTR seems to be a little more power hungry. Still think I could use my 2450?

windspeed36
02-21-2012, 02:29 AM
The TH-118 needs 1800w at 4ohm constant, from memory the QSC RMX2450 bridges at 2400w, 4ohm 20HZ-20Khx

Incognito
02-21-2012, 02:33 AM
Local dealer told me the same thing(need 2) when I was looking at the 115's.
The JTR seems to be a little more power hungry. Still think I could use my 2450?

Horns work best in multiples but as I mentioned, once you get up in this league of subs you're already reaching levels with a single sub what lesser subs require multiples to achieve.


How so? The Danley is 1,800 watts RMS at 4 ohms while the JTR is 2,000 watts RMS at either 8 or 2 ohms. 200 watts is not going to make any difference in potential output so you can just as easily send 1,800 watts into the JTR without any ill effect. Remember it takes a doubling of power just to gain 3db so 200 watts is nothing once you're in this range.

Bill Fitzmaurice
02-21-2012, 08:45 AM
...I just remember seeing it somewhere - I think on PSW someone was saying something about a lack of horizontal coverageWhomever said so is without a clue. Total bollix, unless you stack them horizontally to a total of at least twenty feet wide, and the same narrowing of the dispersion that would then result would occur with any type of sub, not just horns.

Johnnotestine
02-21-2012, 12:19 PM
Well sounds like I am hearing spring for the Danley or the JTR.

Anyone else think these are going to be too much for my tops (FBT Verve 15a and 12m's)? I would not be able to upgrade tops for a while if I made this purchase.

I really missed this forum - so much great information and this topic is not even a day old. Thanks for brining this back!

GaFFLe
02-21-2012, 01:17 PM
Well sounds like I am hearing spring for the Danley or the JTR.

Anyone else think these are going to be too much for my tops (FBT Verve 15a and 12m's)? I would not be able to upgrade tops for a while if I made this purchase.

I really missed this forum - so much great information and this topic is not even a day old. Thanks for brining this back!
You WANT them to be too much for your tops... Haven't you ever heard the saying... go hard or go home? :D (no misquote)

I run a Crown MA-12000i with my Danley TH-118's. It does up to 4500W/channel but I use the RMS and peak limiters to limit it at 1000W RMS and about 5400W peak. I used to have a PL325 with my former 2 TH-115's but I sold them and upgraded to the TH-118's. The amp needed upgrading with the change, thus the switch to the Crown.

You'll find that it doesn't take a lot of power to get the Danleys going; they are very efficient. When I hook the included System Architect software to my amp, at several hundred watts, this sub hums! With only 128watts of power, you're essentially doing 129dB! That equals and exceeds two of the sub models you listed. You shouldn't under power your sub though, as you need the headroom to prevent distortion and other sound-related issues.

You've gotten some good advice here. IMO, Danley makes some of the best speakers on the planet. The JTR OS option is good too, especially considering the price point. If you go the high-end route, you won't look back. You're already in nice shape with the Italian tops. Check with DJ BMan (or DJBeeMan) about the JTR OS's for personal experiences.

As far as my personal experiences, check this post and the aftermath just two clustered TH-118's did to the venue... http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,2924.msg16124.html#msg16124
(http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,2924.msg16124.html#msg16124)
One other note is these sub are not just about booming bass. They are the epitome of sub sound quality. You'll rethink what sub bass response should sound like after experiencing them.

GaFFLe
02-21-2012, 01:44 PM
Though when you go into multiples with this class of subs it just gets sweeter.
Staring DJBman & his four Orbit Shifters

YVK7adzBOh8

I just love how they all just disperse...
$8000 in subs and he's using Mackie tops?!?!?! :eek::mad::blank::cry:

J/K :P I think BMan runs Triple12x tops. I guess that Mackie was his monitor.

Johnnotestine
02-21-2012, 02:03 PM
Gaffle- Thanks for the advice. I was hoping I might hear from you since my interest in the 118's came from your blog and posts.

How did the single 118 sound with the PL325? Did you feel like you had enough headroom?

Thanks!

GaFFLe
02-21-2012, 03:01 PM
Gaffle- Thanks for the advice. I was hoping I might hear from you since my interest in the 118's came from your blog and posts.

How did the single 118 sound with the PL325? Did you feel like you had enough headroom?

Thanks!
It sounded great. Like I mentioned, the sub is very efficient so a little power goes a long way. You do have to bridge the PL325 to drive that sub though. I've read that bridging is not the best practice but the amp is capable of doing it and it worked w/o issue. You'll have to be very careful at NOT clipping the amp with that little amount headroom.

Incognito
02-21-2012, 03:33 PM
$8000 in subs and he's using Mackie tops?!?!?! :eek::mad::blank::cry:

J/K :P I think BMan runs Triple12x tops. I guess that Mackie was his monitor.

Yep, he's using the Mackies as monitors & JTR Tripple 12x as his mains.

If only the sale of my Growlers went through a few weeks ago as it was supposed to I would be sitting on JTR Orbit Shifters right now myself (more so out of curiosity then need really) but since everyone seems to want something for nothing I decided to hold on to my Growlers until such time a serious buyer comes along.

Incognito
02-21-2012, 03:34 PM
One other note is these sub are not just about booming bass. They are the epitome of sub sound quality. You'll rethink what sub bass response should sound like after experiencing them.
[/FONT]

Speaking truth:tup:

Johnnotestine
02-21-2012, 03:58 PM
Yep, he's using the Mackies as monitors & JTR Tripple 12x as his mains.

If only the sale of my Growlers went through a few weeks ago as it was supposed to I would be sitting on JTR Orbit Shifters right now myself (more so out of curiosity then need really) but since everyone seems to want something for nothing I decided to hold on to my Growlers until such time a serious buyer comes along.

I had the same problem with my TH-mini's, that's why I've decided to keep them. Why do people expect to pay 1/4 value on lightly used/mint condition gear?

Incognito
02-21-2012, 04:13 PM
I had the same problem with my TH-mini's, that's why I've decided to keep them. Why do people expect to pay 1/4 value on lightly used/mint condition gear?

On top of that they wanted me to include my QSC PL380 & DBX Driverack. I must confess I have been known to sell off good gear for low prices but I made it a point to clarify that this wasn't going to be one of those times long before I even made the final decision to go ahead with selling the Growlers.