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View Full Version : Loudness war cherry popped - RANT



thehadgi
12-22-2012, 01:22 PM
:argh:

(possible tl;dr, it's fine :lol:)

Ran into my first loudness qualm with a label. I am fully aware of the fact that 'loudness' increasing (at the mastering stage) is nothing new whatsoever, and that especially with genres like teh dubstepz and electro-house, the stuff is getting slammed pretty hard. Yeah it promotes sales because the stuff will slam a dancefloor pretty hard, whatever. In the right hands, slamming a track with compression can make it sound pretty good, but to a point. In my case, I don't really write and mix my tracks to go for this kind of sound though. The label guy approached me and said that he felt my tracks needed to be pumped more to match the stuff on the charts. I explained that what he was looking for was probably more directed at the style I actually write music, and that limiting the hell out of tracks I've made isn't going to achieve what he wants; it's just going to make my tracks seem distorted, since I write/mix with more dynamic range than typical dance tracks. He's not convinced however, and is pushing to have the tracks to resemble more a electrohouse sausage waveform than a well balanced perty looking one.

Ugh dunno. The mastering guy I use is extremely talented and offers very fair and reasonable prices, and you should all check him out (won't include names in this thread, however :ninja:).

So to continue the backstory, the label guy advised me to get in contact with a mastering guy he uses, that I've actually had run ins with before. Some of you producers actually may have also been contacted by him if you've posted stuff on other sites. The guy did 'free' job on one of my tracks as a demo for me, I almost laughed aloud when I heard it. It sounded like he literally just slapped iZotope on the track, limited it to hell and back, added reverb that was waaay past what is called for in mastering, and popped the highs to almost deafen my ears.

Not only that, but he went further :squint: After sending his master, he asked for the stems, which I for some reason provided him with. He said he had some suggestions. This is what he did:

1. CHANGED MY ENTIRE KICK FOR THE TRACK
2. Removed some string parts entirely from parts of the track that I had written
3. Re-arranged my buildup into the final chorus
4. Added unnecessary delay
5. Added his own white noise
6. Added a ridiculous amount of white noise
7. SET THE TRACK TO MONO - This was because 'club songs are all better heard and played in mono for the club setting'

Are you kidding me? :badpc: Granted he offered the master for free as a demo of his services, and he labeled his 'creative interpretation' of my track as a 'remix'. But he posted the song on his soundcloud, with my name on it :facepalm:. He's a nice guy to be sure, but I feel that when you are dealing with an artist's creative work, you need to at least strike a conservative approach to altering the feel of the original, instead of over-reaching and altering the track with a heavy hammer.

I could have went back and forth with him on different things he did, and asked to not have my name on a track that I wasn't happy with, or it taken down. (I actually did this on another run-in I had with him, but that's a different story). But it just wasn't even worth it. And this is the guy I'm getting a recommendation for from my label, as if this guy is going to make my tracks 'more sellable.'

Eh, rant over. I'm actually lucky, the label owner is a nice guy and willing to work with me on differences in opinion, and has mentioned multiple times to me how big a fan he is of my music. So I guess I'm just more complaining because I have nothing better to complain about :P. I'm working with my current mastering guy on coming up with a solution everyone will be happy with, so it's not like I've gone through anything unreasonable. I'm still not going to make a lot of money either way lol. Just invested a bunch of time and money in music so far, and sometimes it's frustrating to have to let other people take your track and have them influence it in a way that you dont feel is reflective of you and your sound you try to achieve...

That is all for now. Life shall continue I'm sure (but only just barely... :squint:)

Sigma
12-22-2012, 05:32 PM
Can you not just put your own stuff out? I wouldn't be very happy about having to pander to that label's demands, even if the owner is a nice guy, that is, assuming he is actually demanding you do this in future and not just trying to nudge you in that direction.

As for the mastering guy, the only part of that that would have pissed me off is him putting it on his SoundCloud page. All the other stuff I could just ignore as he's doing it for free, even though it's a bit cheeky really, but it doesn't sound like the guy really knows what he's doing. Putting a track that isn't his out on SoundCloud without the artist's permission is very unprofessional though.

ezelkow1
12-22-2012, 07:04 PM
was that the mastering guy over on kvr offering to do stuff for cheap/free? I vaguely remember something coming up a few months back over there about some mastering guy who has posting peoples tracks on his soundcloud and doing a horrible job to boot

AdrianR
12-23-2012, 12:46 AM
My mastering guy is great. He KNOWS that I will occasionally go for that hard over the top electro sound and I just record the master really low and he brings it to life. He really does get the most out of it. Even my House work (Deep House) which is laid back and mellow, he makes it sound so so good.

Why don't you make your own label? I did. Put out what ever you want. If you're making stuff you don't like then you won't make it well, which means, it'll never sell. I like that big bass electro sound. I don't like Dub Step but more for the drums than the bass.

I understand where the label guy is coming from but, to be BRUTALLY honest, if he wants to take the label in one direction and you want your music to go in another, it may be best to part ways on good terms or even form a side project otherwise it won't work. I'm not putting out my Electro House work on my Deep House label, but it's my label so theoretically, I could if I wanted to, however, it's a clash of concepts. If I was working with a Deep House label or signed to one and offered them Electro House, of course they'd so "No, get off our label." Your music has to represent the label as much as the label has to represent you.

Manu
12-25-2012, 07:37 AM
So you gave your stems to a noob?

thehadgi
12-25-2012, 02:34 PM
was that the mastering guy over on kvr offering to do stuff for cheap/free? I vaguely remember something coming up a few months back over there about some mastering guy who has posting peoples tracks on his soundcloud and doing a horrible job to boot

Ha I think it may be... I ran into him first on gearslutz, but I'm pretty sure he hits all the forums up.


Can you not just put your own stuff out? I wouldn't be very happy about having to pander to that label's demands, even if the owner is a nice guy, that is, assuming he is actually demanding you do this in future and not just trying to nudge you in that direction.

As for the mastering guy, the only part of that that would have pissed me off is him putting it on his SoundCloud page. All the other stuff I could just ignore as he's doing it for free, even though it's a bit cheeky really, but it doesn't sound like the guy really knows what he's doing. Putting a track that isn't his out on SoundCloud without the artist's permission is very unprofessional though.

Yeah it's mostly whatever; aside from just thinking "Wow, feel free to destroy the original intent of the track" I didn't really care other than him putting on his SC. Should've asked him to take it down, but it was a while ago and now I probably would in the same case.


My mastering guy is great. He KNOWS that I will occasionally go for that hard over the top electro sound and I just record the master really low and he brings it to life. He really does get the most out of it. Even my House work (Deep House) which is laid back and mellow, he makes it sound so so good.

Why don't you make your own label? I did. Put out what ever you want. If you're making stuff you don't like then you won't make it well, which means, it'll never sell. I like that big bass electro sound. I don't like Dub Step but more for the drums than the bass.

I understand where the label guy is coming from but, to be BRUTALLY honest, if he wants to take the label in one direction and you want your music to go in another, it may be best to part ways on good terms or even form a side project otherwise it won't work. I'm not putting out my Electro House work on my Deep House label, but it's my label so theoretically, I could if I wanted to, however, it's a clash of concepts. If I was working with a Deep House label or signed to one and offered them Electro House, of course they'd so "No, get off our label." Your music has to represent the label as much as the label has to represent you.

Yep, you're right. I think it's not a big enough deal breaker for me to switch labels; some decent conversation appears to fix the problem for now.


So you gave your stems to a noob?

Pretty much :lol: