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Redcon-1
02-18-2012, 03:56 PM
I'm writing a paper for my MBA program on Scratch Live and the company's different pricing structures and strategies. It would be useful for a section of the report if I could point to general marketshare info for the major competitors, but I'm not sure where I could find this.

Any ideas?

Somedj
02-18-2012, 04:55 PM
In the DVS arena, aren't there really only 2 heavy hitters? Obviously Serato Audio Research being one and Native Instruments being the other one. Unless of course you throw in Atomix Productions. But, I dont know if they would be in the same category as Serato or NI.

xyloft
02-18-2012, 05:09 PM
there is also torq.

seems like you may be able to get it from the manufacturer. if they are a publicly traded company (have no idea if they are) it maybe in their financial report.

Redcon-1
02-18-2012, 05:22 PM
and virtual dj... see my point? :P

Andrew B
02-18-2012, 05:36 PM
None of the companies release that information.

Somedj
02-19-2012, 09:13 AM
and virtual dj... see my point? :P

virtual dj is an Atomix Productions product... :blank:

Redcon-1
02-19-2012, 11:05 PM
does anyone know how I can view UK prices on NI's website for Traktor Scratch Pro 2 / Duo. Or could somebody from across the pond take a screen shot of this screen for me?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7045/6907668789_4b2768d487_z.jpg

Redcon-1
02-20-2012, 09:18 AM
could somebody take a screenshot of this for me? I tried viewing the website through a UK proxy and there was an issue with the flash not loading, so I can't figure out how to view UK prices for Traktor

Redcon-1
02-20-2012, 09:34 AM
also, if anybody has any links that compare the popularity/penetration of edm in the USA vs UK....

Somedj
02-20-2012, 09:39 AM
oh, ok, so basically you want us to do your research for you for your MBA.... gotcha.... :mad:

Redcon-1
02-20-2012, 09:43 AM
somedj, you are a douche. I asked a UK member to take a screenshot cuz I can't view the UK site with a USA ip address. Hardly qualifies as asking somebody else to do research

Then I asked IF somebody knew any links, if they could share them, NOT "please go do my research"

gtfo

nem0nic
02-20-2012, 11:38 AM
You won't find this information in the format you're expecting. There is a sales tracking entity in the US called MI Sales Track that tracks certain statistics for Musical Instrument sales (hence the name, right?). You could use this sales data to extrapolate us sales of DVS software and from there determine market share. But it would only be for a percentage of US sales - and wouldn't include things like online sales (which is VDJs primary method of distribution). So the data will still be skewed.

Of course, your other stumbling block is that MIST data is private and very expensive.

Somedj
02-20-2012, 06:40 PM
somedj, you are a douche. I asked a UK member to take a screenshot cuz I can't view the UK site with a USA ip address. Hardly qualifies as asking somebody else to do research

Then I asked IF somebody knew any links, if they could share them, NOT "please go do my research"

gtfo

Yea, Im the douche? You come on here asking for help with a research project you're doing for your MBA, but Im the douche? How about you do your own work, your own research, and use your own effort do do YOUR project. Instead of coming onto a web forum and pleading for info that you should be figuring out how to find on your own. Outstanding that a wannabe exec is incapable of figuring out their school work on their own. When you did your case study for your undergrad did you hit up helpmefigureoutbusiness.com forums for help? How'd you pick your company? Did you need help from cpa.com forums to figure out how to read the companies annual report?

Get bent scrub..... (oh and well done not knowing who atomix productions were.... glad you've got a firm grasp on your subject of choice)

Jason Cerna
02-20-2012, 06:47 PM
bro


chill

Somedj
02-20-2012, 06:58 PM
bro


chill

/chilled :)

Redcon-1
02-20-2012, 10:26 PM
I asked for two things. One somebody to take a friggin screenshot for me. ***HOLY SHIT, HOLY SHIT, YOU CAN'T DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH??? OMG OMG****

Two: IF.. IF... IF... you knew of something off the top of your head that talked about the popularity of edm in UK vs USA, to please share-- since 90% of the ppl here are into in EDM and I'm not. Never even was really necessary for my paper, just would have been a nice touch ****HOLY SHIT! HOLY SHIT! OMG! OMG!****

Didn't know Atomix was VDJ because I started w/ Torq Connectiv and promptly upgraded to SL3. But you're right all the "real" DJ's know about VDJ so you'd have to be a moron if you don't know who produces a piece of software that's not relevant to you. Right? Right. The only reason somedj knows who produces VDJ is b/c he started on a pirated copy of it ;)


Yea, Im the douche? You come on here asking for help with a research project you're doing for your MBA, but Im the douche? How about you do your own work, your own research, and use your own effort do do YOUR project. Instead of coming onto a web forum and pleading for info that you should be figuring out how to find on your own. Outstanding that a wannabe exec is incapable of figuring out their school work on their own. When you did your case study for your undergrad did you hit up helpmefigureoutbusiness.com forums for help? How'd you pick your company? Did you need help from cpa.com forums to figure out how to read the companies annual report?


Get bent scrub..... (oh and well done not knowing who atomix productions were.... glad you've got a firm grasp on your subject of choice)

^^^^^^^


Yea, Im the douche?

^^^^^^^

Indeed. Case in point :lol:

And btw, it's "company's" (since your so studious and all) :school:

xsonixs
02-20-2012, 10:47 PM
I guess another approach would be to literally start making phone calls and see what kind of sales music stores have. This would only give you data on music store share so it would essentially eliminate VDJ from your dataset. Perhaps getting some DVS adoption from DJF and DTT and other forums could get you some numbers that you can work with.

Do you need to focus on nationwide marketshare? perhaps statewide marketshare would be easier to get if you target points of sale.

Just my 2c.

Redcon-1
02-20-2012, 10:52 PM
It's not even that deep, though either one of those would be a reasonable approach for a basic estimate (except for the having to call shops in the UK part!)

The point I was hoping to make with the info was that Traktor is more popular in the UK and Scratch Live is more popular in the US (at least in relative terms), and therefore Traktor has more marketshare in the UK and Scratch Live has more market share in the US. And due to Traktor's popularity in the UK, Scratch Live is priced at less of a premium (compared to Traktor) in the UK than it is in the US. But like I said it wasn't pertinent to the paper, it just would have been nice to have something to point to.

The main thing was that I needed those screenshots of NI's UK website and I couldn't get it to show the UK site on my IP, but Sigma took care of me :)

xsonixs
02-20-2012, 10:58 PM
So it sounds like you only need to focus on NI and RANE. If a basic estimate is all you are looking for, then making a few phone calls would probably get you the data you need. I'm sure if you call PSSL, AGI and some other specialty stores, they will be willing to give you some rough estimates. Then just do the same for the same type of store across the pond, then do the figures.

May not be quintessential to your paper, but if its a good lead into something, why not take the 30 minutes to do it? :). Good luck with your paper and finishing your MBA!

Somedj
02-20-2012, 11:02 PM
I asked for two things. One somebody to take a friggin screenshot for me. ***HOLY SHIT, HOLY SHIT, YOU CAN'T DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH??? OMG OMG****

Two: IF.. IF... IF... you knew of something off the top of your head that talked about the popularity of edm in UK vs USA, to please share-- since 90% of the ppl here are into in EDM and I'm not. Never even was really necessary for my paper, just would have been a nice touch ****HOLY SHIT! HOLY SHIT! OMG! OMG!****

Didn't know Atomix was VDJ because I started w/ Torq Connectiv and promptly upgraded to SL3. But you're right all the "real" DJ's know about VDJ so you'd have to be a moron if you don't know who produces a piece of software that's not relevant to you. Right? Right. The only reason somedj knows who produces VDJ is b/c he started on a pirated copy of it ;)



^^^^^^^



^^^^^^^

Indeed. Case in point :lol:

And btw, it's "company's" (since your so studious and all) :school:

First of all junior, if you go back and actually read the thread you'll see I was the very first person to answer your helpless request with the information you first asked for. I listed the names of a few companies that dealt in the dvs realm. One of them was atomix productions; who created vdj. Then you responded with... what about vdj? Obviously, if you had done ANY of your own research you would have known who atomix was and what they created and you could have reduced the level of ignorant that you are now at.

Second, atomix should be relevant to you because it is part of the subject matter of your own paper. So... once again, you obviously have no idea what you're writing about. As for what I use and that other babble about what "real" djs know about.... that nonsense was never stated by me. Personally I could care less what dvs a "real" dj used or did not use. Furthermore, anyone with access to google can simply type in "virtual dj" in the search bar and it takes you to their web page. Then you click on company.... and wow... the information is right there.

As for what I started on? They were these little plastic things called cds; not a pirated copy of vdj.

Oh, and its "you're" since YOU'RE so adept at the english language and all... :school:

xsonixs
02-20-2012, 11:09 PM
is anyone keeping score on this? LOL

Redcon-1
02-20-2012, 11:11 PM
First of all junior, if you go back and actually read the thread you'll see I was the very first person to answer your helpless request with the information you first asked for. I listed the names of a few companies that dealt in the dvs realm. One of them was atomix productions; who created vdj. Then you responded with... what about vdj? Obviously, if you had done ANY of your own research you would have known who atomix was and what they created and you could have reduced the level of ignorant that you are now at.

Second, atomix should be relevant to you because it is part of the subject matter of your own paper. So... once again, you obviously have no idea what you're writing about. As for what I use and that other babble about what "real" djs know about.... that nonsense was never stated by me. Personally I could care less what dvs a "real" dj used or did not use. Furthermore, anyone with access to google can simply type in "virtual dj" in the search bar and it takes you to their web page. Then you click on company.... and wow... the information is right there.

As for what I started on? They were these little plastic things called cds; not a pirated copy of vdj.

Oh, and its "you're" since YOU'RE so adept at the english language and all... :school:

Remind me again how a FREE product's pricing structure would be relevant in my PRICING paper?

And thanks for being the first to help. Let me go add that: "there's really only two heavy hitters in the dvs arena*"

Thank god I had somedj to inform me of the two products I was already discussing, and then to chastise me for not knowing the producer of the third product I am already aware of. Where would I be w/out that guy?


*Somedj

edit: just noticed my "your." Irony strikes! :lol:

DJStevieRay
02-20-2012, 11:16 PM
If you are looking for Market penetration I would say...
Automix (VDJ)
Serato (Scratch/Itch)
Traktor
PCDJ (Their 40 different products)
Torq
Then the 100 other products (note: DJ Power and PCDJ where the first 2 accepted DJ apps available)

Andrew B
02-20-2012, 11:30 PM
The point I was hoping to make with the info was that Traktor is more popular in the UK and Scratch Live is more popular in the US (at least in relative terms), and therefore Traktor has more marketshare in the UK and Scratch Live has more market share in the US.I don't think that's true.


And due to Traktor's popularity in the UK, Scratch Live is priced at less of a premium (compared to Traktor) in the UK than it is in the US. But like I said it wasn't pertinent to the paper, it just would have been nice to have something to point to.That's definitely not true.

Redcon-1
02-20-2012, 11:42 PM
I'm saying that per capita, the number of traktor users in the UK is higher than per capita in the US. I'm not saying that there are more Traktor users in the UK than SL users. You don't think that is true?

And according the numbers I have, TSD is the same price from NI as SL2 is from amazon.co.uk. TSD was a bit cheaper on amazon, but the numbers were too random for me to use. It's not really a perfect comparison, but it doesn't need to be. They just want to see the thought process. They aren't going to go through and check to see if my market shares are perfect or anything like that.

these are the numbers I was using. I can't get the columns spaced, but I think it's pretty self-explanatory

SL2 (USA) $499 Duo 2 (USA) $399 $100 25%
SL4 (USA) $899 Pro 2 (USA) $669 $230 34%
SL2 (UK) £349 Duo 2 (UK) £349 £0 0%
SL4 (UK) £699 Pro 2 (UK) £599 £100 17%

Somedj
02-20-2012, 11:45 PM
Remind me again how a FREE product's pricing structure would be relevant in my PRICING paper?

And thanks for being the first to help. Let me go add that: "there's really only two heavy hitters in the dvs arena*"

Thank god I had somedj to inform me of the two products I was already discussing, and then to chastise me for not knowing the producer of the third product I am already aware of. Where would I be w/out that guy?


*Somedj

edit: just noticed my "your." Irony strikes! :lol:

Do I even respond to more of your nonsense? Eh... why not, Ive got nothing better to do at the moment.....

You started off by talking about Serato (which frankly it looks like you really have no clue about them either) which would be ONE product you were discussing. Not two. You didnt actually start talking about any other products by name until after you were spoon fed the other ones. Hmm.... sort of solidifies my point...

And, if you want to get technical, serato scratch live is free too.... You pay for the box which enables full serato functionality. Much like vdj is free, but if you want full functionality, you purchase the full version.

But, of course, I'm sure you knew that right?

Redcon-1
02-20-2012, 11:52 PM
except that vdj can be programmed to a controller, amiright? Whereas Scratch Live is useless w/out the box, amiright? Which kinda changes everything, amiright?

So if you want to get technical, you can gtfo of my thread and go troll somewhere else

(and yes, I knew that)

Interracial Tea
02-20-2012, 11:58 PM
I'm saying that per capita, the number of traktor users in the UK is higher than per capita in the US. I'm not saying that there are more Traktor users in the UK than SL users. You don't think that is true?

Isn't that still saying there are more Traktor users? Feel free to correct me or re-word it, but it still sounds like you're saying there are more Traktor users than Serato users in the UK.

EDIT: somedj calm the fuck down.

Andrew B
02-20-2012, 11:58 PM
Per capita? I have no idea. You'll never be able to get hard numbers on something like that.

If you go by MAP prices:

SL2 £349
SL3 £499
SL4 £699

TSD2 £299
TSP2 £499

Redcon-1
02-21-2012, 12:00 AM
where are you finding the MAP price?

Somedj
02-21-2012, 12:03 AM
except that vdj can be programmed to a controller, amiright? Whereas Scratch Live is useless w/out the box, amiright? Which kinda changes everything, amiright?

So if you want to get technical, you can gtfo of my thread and go troll somewhere else

(and yes, I knew that. Not the VDJ unlocking functionality part, but the "paying for functionality part" is irrelevant since VDJ is notorious for being pirated)

No, you are wrong. The free version of vdj cannot be used with a controller. So, again, the free version of vdj is just as useless as serato is without the box. Which doesn't change anything, other than the fact that I am further proving how wrong you are and how ultimately you are extremely ignorant about a subject that you are trying to do a paper on.

And, I'm hardly a troll. Maybe before 06 I could have been considered a troll (although I didnt post, I just read) but not now.

To clarify, Im calm/chill. :)

Andrew B
02-21-2012, 12:03 AM
DJ equipment retailers. Looks like Sapphire's has the Traktors for £10 less.

Somedj STOP.

Redcon-1
02-21-2012, 12:08 AM
Isn't that still saying there are more Traktor users? Feel free to correct me or re-word it, but it still sounds like you're saying there are more Traktor users than Serato users in the UK.

EDIT: somedj calm the fuck down.

I'm saying as an example:

UK - 30% Traktor 39% SL
US - 20% Traktor 55% SL

SL has a dominant market share in both instances, but the difference is smaller in the UK

DJStevieRay
02-21-2012, 12:12 AM
But if you factor in all the free users of VDJ through the Mac App Store, and torrents, then VDJ (Automix) is the leader....Plus VDJ has been around longer, and there are thousands more mobile DJ's than club DJ's, and the majority use VDJ, so check your facts. I am not saying VDJ is better than either, just stating market share, why the hell do you think it is so important for Pioneer, Denon, ADJ, and others to make sure their hardware is VDJ compatible.

Redcon-1
02-21-2012, 12:21 AM
Somedj somehow keeps failing to recognize that I am willingly and knowingly ignorant of VDJ because it is irrelevant to my paper and was never on my radar as a purchase for my setup. :facepalm:

But that said, even though I have done extremely little research on VDJ (for reasons just mentioned), I am about 80% sure that VDJ doesn't have to be tied a piece of proprietary hardware in the way that SL does, which is the reason we all love to poke fun and have a laugh at the "I just bootlegged a copy of VDJ and now I've got my first gig next week" stereotype.

This would also mean that VDJ is a totally different animal than SL which must be used with a SL box and turntables, and that somedj once again hasn't proven anything other than the fact that he is very bad at reading comprehension and interpreting personal "successes"

Redcon-1
02-21-2012, 12:27 AM
This conversation has gotten so off track. :lol:

I never said VDJ was irrelevant. It's irrelevant to my paper.

I'm supposed to write a short synopsis of a product/company's pricing strategies. It would be nice to have data I could cite, and all this marketshares, VDJ, etc is def relevant in a general sense, but it's irrelevant to the things I am writing about. In the end all that matters is that the synopsis makes sense from an economic perspective, not that all the data is perfect.

Windows 95
02-21-2012, 12:29 AM
If you are looking for Market penetration I would say...
I might agree with that if we were only taking about people who make a living at DJing.
Since this is pure speculation, my guess for total sales (including both bedroom & professional) of DVS products only, would be:
Rane Serato
Numark Virtual Vinyl
M-Audio Torq Conectiv
Native Instruments Traktor Kontrol
PCDJ Reflex


Now if we were talking just DJing software in general (stand alone, controller & DVS) I would think it's something like:
VDJ
PCDJ
Traktor
Serato
MixMeister
Ableton Live
Torq
FL Studio
Reason
MixVibes
Cue
OtsAV DJ
Sony ACID
UltraMixer
Stanton DJ Academy MIX
ProDJ / ProVJ
Digital DJ
djay (Mac, iPad, iPhone & iPod touch)
DSS DJ
Softjock Audio (Rockit, Multi Zone Audio, RockBox)
Mixman DJ Megamix

I'm sure there's a lot more, but I don't scope out every DJ software available.

DJStevieRay
02-21-2012, 12:37 AM
there are thousands more who make a living using CDJ as a mobile DJ, then Serato at a club......I use VDJ and make between $1200-$2000 a night as a mobile DJ. Most club jocks I know make $200 or less a night not what a call making aliving when you factor in expenses, life insurance, retirement, etc.... Again I am not saying CDJ is better, just has a larger presence than most people here think as club DJ's.

Somedj
02-21-2012, 12:42 AM
I'm writing a paper for my MBA program on Scratch Live and the company's different pricing structures and strategies. It would be useful for a section of the report if I could point to general marketshare info for the major competitors, but I'm not sure where I could find this.

Any ideas?

You said you wanted to find out about market share info of Serato and its major competitors. Atomix is a competitor! If you wanted to do a fair and thorough comparison you HAVE to factor them in. It has NOTHING to do with what you've used and not used nor does it have anything to do with what you respect or do not respect. As was pointed out by stevieray, there is a HUGE mobile dj piece that you're leaving out. If you factor in legit sales of Vdj I guarantee you'll find that it is a direct competitor to Serato.

SL does NOT have to have a box to function. Free vdj does NOT have to be the full version to function. However, neither one of them will be running the preferred fully functional way without their supporting pieces (box for sl and full software version for vdj).

Windows 95
02-21-2012, 12:43 AM
I use VDJ and make between $1200-$2000 a night as a mobile DJ.Which is why as a DVS I only placed it as #2, but as DJing software in general I placed it at #1.

Redcon-1
02-21-2012, 12:55 AM
I should just said Traktor. So my bad, you win.

I am not doing it on all DVS's and DJ software programs. I am doing it on "professional grade" DVS with major qualifying factors being the accuracy and response of the timecode and the stability of the system. I'm not saying VDJ isn't pro-grade, but I sure don't hear it recommended much for turntablists, or find too people that wouldn't rather have Traktor or SL if the price was the same.


SL does NOT have to have a box to function. Free vdj does NOT have to be the full version to function. However, neither one of them will be running the preferred fully functional way without their supporting pieces (box for sl and full software version for vdj).

Except that any person w/ two brain cells can torrent a full version of VDJ w/ a key, whereas it's pretty hard to download a SL box through your internet connection, which was my point.