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View Full Version : Traktor channel gains master output question



DJTJ
02-14-2012, 07:05 PM
So i use to dj with my master output at 0.0 and my channel gain down to -10 on each channel. that way my channel levels were in the greens. Then i always wonder why i saw other midi controllers red line in the channel faders and not in the master output. so i put my master output to -10 and keep my channel gain at 0.0 which is the autogain of each track from traktor. Im now red lining in the channel faders but not in my master output. does this mean im clipping. Im just trying to get my levels just right.

Andrew B
02-14-2012, 07:54 PM
Sounds like your master limiter is on. Turn it off. Turn down your master out if you need to.

Turn off auto gain while you're at it.

edit: Found an article (http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2011/03/traktor-gain-sound-level-settings/) on it.

Jason Cerna
02-14-2012, 09:05 PM
Adjust the Headroom

http://jasoncerna.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Screen-shot-2012-01-30-at-4.18.42-PM.png

DJTJ
02-14-2012, 10:04 PM
i havent updated to the newest traktor since i was scared that my cpu would go through the roof even tho i run a mac

Jason Cerna
02-15-2012, 11:54 AM
i haven't had any cpu issues with the latest version. never had any issues with tp2 on my mbp

DJTJ
02-15-2012, 02:39 PM
ok i will update it then

mostapha
02-15-2012, 04:02 PM
I can't figure out Traktor, honestly. But I've figured out part of it.

The channel gains don't mean anything. They're basically arbitrary, and slamming into them doesn't do anything. Traktor itself–inside the software–has a metric shit ton of headroom, and slamming the channel meters does nothing. If you don't believe me, download or generate a sin wave and turn everything you can up…it's hard to get it to clip if you keep turning down your master.

On the other hand, it's easy to clip your DAC (sound card) if the master is too hot, and the limiter sounds like garbage.

What worked for me was to use auto-gain with the channel gains at 0dB and turn the master way the hell down. It doesn't seem to cause artifacts until it's way down, and even if you're bit-crushing the audio by turning it down too far, it isn't audible for a long time.

That being said, NI's complete lack of decent level meters is one of the reasons I'm trying to transition away from their crap. Maschine makes the cut. Traktor didn't.

DJTJ
02-15-2012, 05:50 PM
^ that seems to work. i dl 2.1.2 and i really hate it everything feels different my scratching jogwheels and my cpu is going over 50% a lot i think i might go back to the old version

greenlight
02-15-2012, 06:09 PM
I wrote the article Andrew B linked to earlier. Mostapha has it spot on, turn the master level way down and you'll be fine (somewhere in the range -6dB to -12dB is good).

Turning the master down actually does exactly what the headroom feature in later versions does.

As Mostapha mentioned, Traktor has vast amounts of headroom internally, so as long as you avoid clipping the master output you won't get distortion.

And yes, Traktor's metering could be much better. To be fair, this is partly because Traktor works with any soundcard, so meter calibration is not straightforward.

Oh and one last thing - I happen to think Traktor's limiter is actually quite good. It will sound bad if you really hammer it but not nearly as bad as clipping, so it's a useful safety net.

Colin.

mostapha
02-15-2012, 06:25 PM
Oh and one last thing - I happen to think Traktor's limiter is actually quite good. It will sound bad if you really hammer it but not nearly as bad as clipping, so it's a useful safety net.

I disagree, but I was used to Live's internal limiter as the baseline for "not crap." Traktor's limiter sounds horrible to me, but it's entirely possible that I was hammering it. I only heard it once and then did a lot of experiments to figure out how to never hit it…I might have been getting 15dB of gain reduction through it, which would–of course–sound terrible.

DJTJ
02-15-2012, 07:45 PM
ya until traktor fixes this cpu problem i think i will stay with 2.0.3 and keep the master at -10db and have my channel levels at 0db. i really hate this new version 2.1.2 cpu is just getting higher and hate how the jogwheels seem more "loose"

greenlight
02-16-2012, 02:42 AM
I disagree, but I was used to Live's internal limiter as the baseline for "not crap." Traktor's limiter sounds horrible to me, but it's entirely possible that I was hammering it. I only heard it once and then did a lot of experiments to figure out how to never hit it…I might have been getting 15dB of gain reduction through it, which would–of course–sound terrible.

It's also entirely possible that you have better ears than me and can hear distortion I can't :-)

Never hitting the limiter should be something all Traktor dj's learn how to do IMO. The amount of dynamic range available in today's DJ kit is such that you should never need to be anywhere near clipping.

Earlier in the thread someone suggested turning the limiter off which is not a good idea unless you're sure you know how to avoid clipping and have a setup / workflow that means it won't happen.


ya until traktor fixes this cpu problem i think i will stay with 2.0.3 and keep the master at -10db and have my channel levels at 0db. i really hate this new version 2.1.2 cpu is just getting higher and hate how the jogwheels seem more "loose"

I had some CPU issues with early versions of Traktor 2 but I'm on 2.1.2 now and all seems fine. You might try turning off the multi-core processor support option in preferences > audio setup (fixed it for some people). As for the jog wheels can't help you there, maybe try starting a new thread to see if anyone else had the same issue.

DJTJ
02-16-2012, 01:39 PM
well i heard it helps to turn them on i will test it out. for the jogwheels i will just have to get use to or see if there is a setting. now its like if they double the senstivity (cant spell) of each deck

Andrew B
02-16-2012, 01:55 PM
Earlier in the thread someone suggested turning the limiter off which is not a good idea unless you're sure you know how to avoid clipping and have a setup / workflow that means it won't happen.

That was me. I suggested it because I believe it's something that every DJ must learn. Learning to use the gains properly is essential.

mostapha
02-16-2012, 02:00 PM
It's kind of like how I suggest Vestax to every beginner. Them sounding horrible when clipping is part of it.

I honestly don't remember whether the limiter was on or not when I was on Traktor, but I know I never hit it. IMHO, that's the way it should be.

DJTJ
02-16-2012, 03:15 PM
ya i never hit it either. i just wonder why my channel levels were in the red haha my master has never hit rred tho