PDA

View Full Version : Confusion on Ortofon concorde selections



robscomputer
02-14-2012, 03:34 PM
Hello,

I'm returning to dj'ing after a break and wanted to ask about the details between the different Ortofon models. For many years I used the Ortofon Concorde DJS and they were my favorite, rarely skipped, never scratched the record when I made a mistake. But after a while they started to wear out and went with the Shure M447's. I tried many things with the Shures but never got them to "stick" right. They sounded great but the tracking for some reason wasn't great. I never tried going beyond 3.5g since I don't want cue burn.

So now I'm looking to return to Ortofon's but unsure which model is the better for all around use? I heard great things about the DJS (plus personal experience) but what about the Skratch (pink's) or the Elektro?

My dj'ing is just at home, and mostly scratching with mixing (vinyl and Serato Scratch Live). Don't mind spending more but I would like something that really lasts. :)

Thanks!

antFastic
02-14-2012, 08:53 PM
The M44-7 has better tracking ability than the concordes with up to 2g less tracking weight required. If you can't get them to track well then it might be a set up issue because I guarantee they have the ability to hold the groove better than even the Pinks. And you shouldn't really be running the M44-7 anywhere near 3.5g, let alone over!

I probably wouldn't use either the Pinks or the M44-7 for regular vinyl playback, they sound a bit harsh because they are geared up for scratching, but they are really great for scratch and DVS use. The DJ S isn't a bad all rounder, maybe check out the M44-G also? No idea about the Elektro never tried it but I wouldn't have thought it would be geared up for scratching at all?

EDIT: Just thought, there's the Nightclub S too, not sure exactly how this compares to the DJ S but it's more money.

Estacy
02-15-2012, 02:34 AM
It almost sounds like the antiskating was still on? you might wanna check that. Shures don't need antiskating since they're scratch needles

antFastic
02-15-2012, 06:52 AM
Pretty much yeah though it's not so much of a case that the M44-7 doesn't need it, more that if you add any anti skating to a stylus you are increasing the outward force which is a bad thing if you want to turn the record backwards alot.

Adding anti skating is worse for cue burn than adding tracking weight; the outward force on the stylus when you turn the record backwards is considerable, even with the anti skating set to zero. And if you add any extra tracking weight to try and overcome the increased outward force of anti skate, that's gonna make things worse still.

If you really need to back cue and scratch alot then anti skate should be zero though, it is a little better for your records to set the anti skate correctly for forward play. If you have set correct anti skate for forward play, then you should try to avoid back cueing or at least do it with caution.

robscomputer
02-16-2012, 01:09 PM
Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I have the M44-7H and currently set up as "0" anti-skate, 3g weight, and 3.5 height. I did not adjust the headshells at all, so this might be a possible reason why. Also the height might be too high as I'm using butter rugs and it's very low compared to the thicker slip mats. I'll be taking the turntables out of storage soon so I'll look at this further.

If I really damaged the needles, then the price is low enough I can pick up a twin pack.

Thanks again

Estacy
02-16-2012, 01:16 PM
its better to have height set toe low rather than too high, too high means it hacks into your vinyl, if its too low it drags along, which is better.

mostapha
02-16-2012, 03:31 PM
I don't think I've ever had my m-447s skip. There's a reason they were the scratch cartridge from basically the day they came out until Ortofon started giving carts to DMC winners.

Then again, I didn't have my n-447s or whitelabels skip more than a time or two either. It's all about the tonearm setup, honestly. And I'm using about 2.25g tracking weight, the "right" anti-skate (put a record with a blank side on, turn it on, gently place the needle, and balance the auto-stake until the needle doesn't track in or out…otherwise you're putting too much pressure on one wall or the other), and height so that my tonearm's level with my serato CV.

bernardgregory
03-03-2012, 12:50 PM
not to hijack the thread, but i was gonna start a thread about ortofon vs shure but i figure i would just ask here

so it seems like for serato and scratch use, the M44-G would be better over the Ortofon Pro S? I currently have the Pro S but I was thinking about switching over.

antFastic
03-03-2012, 01:26 PM
For DVS and scratching the M44-7 performs better than the Pro S, it holds the groove better with less weight and has higher output.

The only thing I do prefer about the Ortofon is that it's easier to see the stylus position, but the styli are more expensive to replace and require more weight.

pete
03-03-2012, 01:52 PM
i use the blue concorde cart with the qbert stylus.
gives me the balance i want between scratching and sound.
i found the pinks to be the nicest for scratching, the qbert slightly better sound but less tracking.
for sound quality and archiving i use hifi carts, because DJ stuff is not up to the job.

bernardgregory
03-04-2012, 02:42 AM
For DVS and scratching the M44-7 performs better than the Pro S, it holds the groove better with less weight and has higher output.

The only thing I do prefer about the Ortofon is that it's easier to see the stylus position, but the styli are more expensive to replace and require more weight.

thanks for the advice ! rep

robscomputer
04-03-2012, 10:17 AM
It's a late reply but I finally got the turntables setup, was building a small stand for everything in the room.

So starting off, I had the M447's set up as the following, height 1, anti-skate 0, weight 3, cartridge was in the middle of the headshell. I downloaded the Shure M447 PDF setup sheet and found some tips, plus from this thread.

Changed the cartridge from the middle to all the way back (towards the tonearm). Now it's tracking much much better, I tested this with 2 oz of weight but from the PDF, recommend 3 oz, and it tracked much better at 3. I didn't make any adjustments to the height, but I did add a slightly thicker slipmat, for mixing to cut down on the platter noise. The tonearm was as level as possible, before I was only using a butterrug which I think was slightly leaning down too much.

I did find some skipping but it was on a scratch record and the phrase that it skipped was worn. Tracking had no issues on newer records.

Still like the Ortofons better to view the needle, but these M447's work great for my needs and are much cheaper. :)