Pioneer CDJ 2000 Nexus...Everyone knows a DJ

[Divercity]

First off I want to say that I am not a DJ. Props for the people that put in the time and energy to become good without the need for syncs. There are way too many people that are in it for the wrong reasons.

Now with bullshit like this it's just ridiculous.



Pro DJ Link: Sync up to 4 CDJ-2000nexus to share one audio source, Beat Sync, and identify music key via Traffic Light

http://pioneerdjusa.com/gear.aspx?product=CDJ-2000nexus&cp=1



http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Pioneer-CDJ-2000nexus.jpg



Now Dj's can focus on the jesus pose and making hearts with their hands. :lol:

[Firebr4nd]

You realize that if Pioneer didn't start including sync on their players, they would risk losing their market because of the lack of that technology right? Stop crying and appreciate the fact that technology is moving forward and allowing for more cool shit to be done up on the stage.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[DJNR]

Firstly, there's already a thread about the the CDJ2000NXS. (http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?10607-Pioneer-to-update-the-CDJ-2000-at-the-DJ-Expo-in-August)

Secondly, I am going to quote something Mark Settle said on DJWorx in his write up about the project:


Some call it the death of DJing, but I call it the unleashing of creativity. Locking beats IS NOT MIXING – it’s a chore that has been automated, thus by definition not an art. Mixing however is, and that is not what sync does. Think of it like MIDI clock – it simply ties the BPMs together, but you still have to do all the skilled creative stuff. I’m sure many will argue with me but I don’t care – sync is good, is not the death of DJing, nor were CDJs, DVS, controllers, iPads and the demise of Technics, and if used properly can free up DJs to get way more creative than they could when they had to ride the pitch. It’s a time saver and nothing more. You try pitching down 4 decks in perfect sync.

In other words, it's opening djing to a whole new level, and I totally agree.

Answer me this: Why on earth would someone who solely wanted the sync feature buy these decks when they could easily get that same feature from a cheaper turntables and a DVS or controller?

[Era 7]

i don't know what's the big deal. there are some big DJs out there already syncing with different gear. so what?

[DJ_BLAKNITE]

what bother me the most is the price. retail 2399$ pretty hefty!

[hoff]

There are about a million other things I'd complain about over the inclusion of sync. Still 3 hotcues only? Nobody uses SD cards, put another hotcue. At least include a second layer to make the total 6. Hardware revisions shouldn't make people cream themselves these days. Hardware is not the future.. it starts becoming obsolete the second it's released. They should focus on making their players meaningfully upgradable via firmware updates.

[Synergy]

im just not a looper, button pusher and effect user. if i were to use that i would bring in elements of the next track early and work on super smooth transitions.

[Ryan Ruel]

what bother me the most is the price. retail 2399$ pretty hefty!

Real price isn't much more than the CDJ-2000 MK1. $2399 is just the MSRP.

I agree regarding the sync button, if you really wanted to use auto-sync for all your mixes, there were already a bunch of different products on the market to do this already. We seem to be in an age where "top" DJ's can stand on stage with the best DJ gear in the world, without any of it actually turned on or plugged in, waving their arms around. This button is the least of our worries :)

Personally I have sync on Traktor now, I can see the feature being quite useful for OCCASIONAL use when you are syncing up a quantized loop, beat jumping, etc. You don't have to use it all the time! I know how to beatmatch, thank you!

[DJNR]

The decks will likely retail for $1999 street.

[login]

I was expecting the beat jog whell from the aero, that is one feature that seems fun.

[The Blackest]

Answer me this: Why on earth would someone who solely wanted the sync feature buy these decks when they could easily get that same feature from a cheaper turntables and a DVS or controller?

Because its the biggest baddest next thing from THE INDUSTRY STANDARD and I want to be as good as all the big names and look cool at the same time.

[VjQue]

they added sync cause there gear toward edm dj. there latest video has 3 decks. sync is a horrible ideal cause every dj that uses probable cant beat match by ear.

this just gives pauly d, paris hilton, etc a way to sound professional and start up there posing war.

pioneer sux.

[DJNR]

Have you guys heard about how awesome Serato is? Only "Real DJs" use it I hear.

[DJNR]

Because its the biggest baddest next thing from THE INDUSTRY STANDARD and I want to be as good as all the big names and look cool at the same time.

I really doubt the majority of people who are entering the scene and want a sync button are going to pay $4000-$5000 to get it. And even so, the sync will do nothing for their DJ ability. In other words, they will still suck.

Guys, the button is there. Get over it.

Edit: And guess what else, you don't have to use sync if you don't want to! What a concept.

Edit edit: To all of you who are up in arms about sync functionality, I would take some time and read this article. (http://djworx.com/sync-the-djs-big-red-button/)

[Capitan]

they added sync cause there gear toward edm dj. there latest video has 3 decks. sync is a horrible ideal cause every dj that uses probable cant beat match by ear.

this just gives pauly d, paris hilton, etc a way to sound professional and start up there posing war.

pioneer sux.

Can any of them string a decent sentence together?

Why do you care if other people use sync? Do you feel threatened by them?

Beat matching isn't some mystical power, anybody can do it if they can count.

[DJNR]

Can any of them string a decent sentence together?

Why do you care if other people use sync? Do you feel threatened by them?

Beat matching isn't some mystical power, anybody can do it if they can count.

Sync is bad, but Serato waveforms are okay!

[Andrew B]

Have you guys heard about how awesome Serato is? Only "Real DJs" use it I hear.

Yeah, real DJs like the aforementioned Pauly D. :lol:

[DJNR]

Yeah, real DJs like the aforementioned Pauly D. :lol:

Ding ding ding Winner!

[JackStalk]

If you can afford $4000+ for a pair of these thing, you're probably established enough to already beatmatch. They're out of most inexperienced DJs price ranges.

[DJ_BLAKNITE]

If you can afford $4000+ for a pair of these thing, you're probably established enough to already beatmatch. They're out of most inexperienced DJs price ranges.

unless mommy and daddy come along and maybe good ole Santa

[Andrew B]

If you can afford $4000+ for a pair of these thing, you're probably established enough to already beatmatch. They're out of most inexperienced DJs price ranges.

Skills don't have anything to do with cash.

[decarto]

I hope since now that even the industry standard player has auto sync, that it will trigger people to start realizing that real skills start with basic beatmatching based on listening. We need to move backwards and go back to vinyl.

The 1200 factory will once be up and running and people will go to record stores to pick records?

Too ambitious?

[BurntToast]

When I got into this shit, I bought entry level CDJs so it would force me to learn how to beat match and understand where the skills come from. About 2 months later, I started wanting more out of it. It was plain stupid for me (a beginner who isn't serious about DJing) to buy that set up. I love music (play guitar/bass/drums/keys) and I just wanted to see what this shit was all about as I've been a listener of electronic music and EDM from before. I could have gotten a Traktor S4 for the same $, learned to beat match, and then start using it to do a lot more cool shit. I'm not a professional DJ and have no aspirations of being one. I just wanted to start having fun with it and making mixes for me and my friends to listen to. Burning a fuckload of CDs could not be any less practical for someone with my interests. Now I'm selling it and maybe getting a controller.

Beat matching is not a difficult skill to learn. I personally don't care if a DJ uses a SYNC button. It's kind of lazy if he (or she) never learned to beat match, but it's not like I'm going to be able to hear that anyway unless they fuck it up. If a DJ can match it close enough and use a SYNC button to keep it going while he (or she) does some other cool shit, then good. It's not like it should be a requirement to get songs in sync and then have to pay attention to keep them perfect while you'd rather be doing other things. I have respect for everyone that came before the CDJ and SYNC era, but as technology changes, so does the game. All that matters to me is what's coming out of the speakers.

NEWS FLASH: Technology exists to make things easier. It also allows us to do new things that we couldn't before it existed. Embrace it. You don't have to use it. Just make sure if you're going to use a button to replace beat matching, that you're using that time to advance something else.

From Gareth Emery's Facebook page:

"Seeing as we are on the subject, here are my thoughts on the infamous 'SYNC' button on the new Pioneer CDJ.

FIRSTLY: laptop DJs have had this feature for years. So if you have a problem with 'SYNC' you should probably stop seeing anyone who plays from a laptop, and I guarantee a few of your favourite DJs will fit this group (not me though).

SECONDLY: The actual art of beat mixing (ie: getting tracks in time) hasn't exactly been difficult difficult since CDs took over from vinyl anyway. I used to play entirely from vinyl, and I'm not going to bullshit you - keeping the music in time was more difficult back then than it was after I switched to CDs in 2005.

HOWEVER, this did not mean DJing itself got easier... in fact actual, the opposite was true, because you needed to up your game in other ways. More crowd interaction, edits, fx, tricks etc. In the vinyl days all you really cared about was not letting the music get out of time, nothing else really mattered. But now we rightly expect a lot more from our DJs. It's as challenging, demanding, and difficult to learn as it ever was, just in different ways.

Until they invent a button that allows you to read a crowd, give a great stage performance, program a perfect set, or select fucking great music, I am pretty sure the art of DJing is going to live on. Gaz"

[JuxtaPoser]

In my opinion this thread is two separate discussions:

1. Talking about the new Pioner CDJ2000 Nexus
2. The implications of a sync button

My two cents: I don't care AT ALL if high profile DJs use the sync feature, because A) they're obviously talented anyway as they're already successful and B) they're not gonna stay at the top by being lazy with it. As such I don't care that a sync feature exists on high-end equipment, like the new CDJ2000s.

What I DO care about and see as a major problem is the prevalence of sync features on low-end equipment and the way that reduces the barriers to entry to the DJ industry. 10 years ago it took a lot of time, money and passion to become a DJ - you had to hunt for records, pay ludicrously expensive (compared to today's digital prices) prices for records, and then you had to learn those records inside out. This dedication and investment of time and money was rewarded by well-paid gigs and respect.

Flash forward to 2012 and anyone, literally anyone, can buy a budget controller, some free software and download torrent-loads of MP3s and offer their services to clubs and bars etc.

Capitan wrote:
Why do you care if other people use sync? Do you feel threatened by them?

The answer, in my opinion, is a resounding yes and if you don't feel threatened by them then you probably should...

Unless you're a renowned DJ who gets bookings based on your status (as a producer, radio dj, promoter, blogger, etc) to play headline slots then YOU are at risk of being replaced by an 18 year old kid with a midi controller and nothing better to do on a Friday night than DJ five hours for £20.

Yes, you're going to be a way better DJ than them, but if you think for one moment that 90% of the bars and clubs out there are going to pick you over someone willing to do your job for 10% of your wages then you need to wake the hell up. Most bars/clubs don't really want a DJ anyway, they want a talking jukebox with a bit of personality. Most people who go to bars and clubs don't care either. They do NOT care about how you're carefully building the energy in your set and keeping the dance floor in a groove. They don't care how good you are at beatmatching or if you're playing vinyl or using Ableton Live. All these people want is to hear their shitty song, and they want to hear it right now. That's not something most DJs will tolerate or accommodate, but you can bet your bottom dollar that an 18 year old kid with a Mixtrack Pro and this week's top 40 torrent will be more than happy to.

I don't agree with it, I fucking hate it, but that's the reality of the matter.

So to all the people that think it's not a big deal, tell me, what are you doing to protect yourselves from being replaced by the next generation of button pushing minimum wagers? In a world where everyone's a DJ, why should people pick you?

[Sigma]

The answer, in my opinion, is a resounding yes and if you don't feel threatened by them then you probably should...
Exactly!

Imagine you're a computer programmer. Suddenly someone finds a way to vastly simplify computer programming which means more people can do it and with less training. Would you be concerned then? Do you think that would lead to lower wages? Do you think that would lead to more competition when it comes to finding a job and if so, how is that NOT a bad thing for you?

So the questions to ask experienced DJs are - how does making DJing easier benefit me as someone that's already a DJ? Does it benefit me at all, or does it actually make things worse for me? Is the trade-off between "this equipment lets me be more creative" and "this equipment allows more passionless n00bs to jump into DJing" even worth it? And to answer these questions, you also have to look at how DJing has changed over the last few years and whether you feel it's changed for the better overall, or whether you feel it's got worse. Of course a n00b that is using auto-sync is going to defend it! They're not qualified to answer the questions I've just asked though.

[DJNR]

I think we're beating a dead horse. It seems, for the most part, that people do not care that sync functionality is on the new CDJ 2000s. With that being said, could we possibly go back to discussing the CDJ (you know, the original topic?) and leave the sync debate for another thread?

[Capitan]

A thought provoking post Juxta, here's my take on it...


10 years ago it took a lot of time, money and passion to become a DJ - you had to hunt for records, pay ludicrously expensive (compared to today's digital prices) prices for records, and then you had to learn those records inside out. This dedication and investment of time and money was rewarded by well-paid gigs and respect.

As a DJ who started in 1977 I'd say it was way before 10 years ago. As soon as CD's started to really take hold, which was 20 odd years ago, I noticed that, suddenly, there were more and more "DJ's" about. They could, and did, buy a cheap pair of domestic CD players and bought a stack of compilation CD's to give them an instant record collection. Records which were difficult and often expensive to get were suddenly available in compilations of 20-40 at a time, and whilst there was an expense, it was far, far less than hunting for and buying the records.


Flash forward to 2012 and anyone, literally anyone, can buy a budget controller, some free software and download torrent-loads of MP3s and offer their services to clubs and bars etc.

Capitan wrote: Why do you care if other people use sync? Do you feel threatened by them?

The answer, in my opinion, is a resounding yes and if you don't feel threatened by them then you probably should...

Unless you're a renowned DJ who gets bookings based on your status (as a producer, radio dj, promoter, blogger, etc) to play headline slots then YOU are at risk of being replaced by an 18 year old kid with a midi controller and nothing better to do on a Friday night than DJ five hours for £20.

The sync button bears no correlation to why bars and clubs are able to choose a "DJ" who charges next to nothing. They decide on price and the sync button has nothing to do with that. It's the availability of free downloadable music, irrespective of quality, that enables these "DJ's" to charge stupid prices. They have no real outlay anymore. Gone is the expense and time of getting off your backside and go trawling round numerous record shops and paying for the records or CD's. Now they just sit in front of a computer, hit a few buttons and download it for either free or very little cost compared to the past.

It really makes me laugh when I read posts that complain how expensive a track is when it's 79p, 99p, $1 or whatever. Similarly, I howl when I read posts that ask, "where can I find new music?". Then there are those that have spent a large amount of money on equipment and have to ask how to wire it all up. They can't be bothered to research beforehand, ask in the shop they bought the gear from, read the manuals or search themselves on the Internet. No, those type of people want everybody else to do it for them.

There are lots of them on here and these are the people who would have never become "DJ's" before the Internet made it easy for them. They would not have put in the work to learn and find out if they had to get off their backsides and actually leave the house!


Most bars/clubs don't really want a DJ anyway, they want a talking jukebox with a bit of personality. Most people who go to bars and clubs don't care either. They don't care how good you are at beatmatching or if you're playing vinyl or using Ableton Live. All these people want is to hear their shitty song, and they want to hear it right now.

I don't agree with it, I fucking hate it, but that's the reality of the matter.

This is what it's all about! As you say, they don't care if you can beat match and that's why the sync button is not the reason why people should be worried. It's all about cost and that's down to cheap, poor quality equipment and free music, not the sync button.

[QuentinisCue]

I think we're beating a dead horse. It seems, for the most part, that people do not care that sync functionality is on the new CDJ 2000s.

Wouldn't say so, have a look at Pioneer facebook pages.

[DJ Nutty]

The way I see it, there comes a point when technology can do things better than humans. And sync is one of those things.

Some DJ's just suck at the technical aspects, but still rock out some amazing tunes. I saw Oakenfold not too long ago, and hes never been a great technical mixer. He even completely trainwrecked his set right on the last track. The entire club winced. Was the set shit ? No it was effing awesome!

Now imagine if he'd had 2000's with sync, he'd still be rocking it all night, but he wouldn't have made that fuckup right at the end. For me, as a clubber, it just makes it better. And thats all I care about, how good the music is coming out.

[Marc S]

if people worried more about how they do it rather than how everyone else is doing it the world would have a whole bunch of better dj's.

[JohnXVI]

DJing is just progressing into live music production. Learn to make music or lose your spot. The whole mixing thing nowadays is mostly to show off and remix your tracks on the fly. Not long ago I saw a live set with Van Helden that made me ears bleed. It was a terrible train wreck, but people did not care. He played all of his hits and people were pleased. If anything, sync will prevent my ears from such punishment in the future.

[Sigma]

Isn't that a bit like paying to see a singer who can't hold a note, but being pleased cos she sang songs that you like? Fuck that. Pay to go and see DJs that can do the job properly.

[JohnXVI]

I agree. But can't hate the player. These kids eat it up, DJs get away with it.

[The Blackest]

Isn't that a bit like paying to see a singer who can't hold a note, but being pleased cos she sang songs that you like? Fuck that. Pay to go and see DJs that can do the job properly.

I mean I remember back in the day w/ dnb djs from the UK people didn't care how bad they were because of the tunes they played. As mad as it would make me, Dj Trace mixed dnb like techno, but it didn't matter because the tunes he played were so mental. Same w/ Goldie, Grooverider, Dj Fresh, Nicky Blackmarket and a few others I'm forgetting.


From a few posts ago, I find it hilarious that Monkeyfold is still clanging after all of these years of playing out. Someone teach that man how to mix.

[Marc S]

Isn't that a bit like paying to see a singer who can't hold a note, but being pleased cos she sang songs that you like? Fuck that. Pay to go and see DJs that can do the job properly.

i understand and agree wth what you're saying for the most part, but this analogy dont work for me, a bad singer will make your songs you like sound like ass, all this djig tech is meaning you get a more flawless performance almost every time, (if not somewhat unimaginative and generic) on that note, singers/dj's who are genuinely skilled at their art will still stand out.

[BurntToast]

Isn't that a bit like paying to see a singer who can't hold a note, but being pleased cos she sang songs that you like? Fuck that. Pay to go and see DJs that can do the job properly.

No. Not at all, because the song that comes out of the speaker for a DJ is not out of tune like the singer. No one can hear whether or not the DJ is using a sync button. Beat matching is not a hard skill to learn, so I don't really care that much if someone chooses to automate it, as long as the music is good. Should they at least be able to do it? Yeah, because they could perform a set on different platforms and that makes them a better DJ. If they want to be lazy and skip a once crucial (but relatively easy) rite of passage, then whatever. They should make up for it in other areas.

The more difficult of aspects of DJing (and the ones that I appreciate as a listener) are quality mixing, track selection, reading a crowd, and building a set. No one can make a button for those things. I don't go to see a DJ because he's the best beat matcher.

This issue with the "passionless n00bs" undercutting you has very little (I'll admit it's a small factor) to do with a sync button.

[QuentinisCue]

Sync is more like playback singing.

[Wakka]

you guys are missing the big picture on the sync button here. Previously on CDJ's if you wanted to change the pitch of all the songs playing it would be fairly difficult. Now, with the sync button you can have 3 songs going say at... 128 bpm, say you want to do some kind of cool build up thing, you can drop the tempo way down to 60 bpm or something and all the tracks mirror it. Try doing that on the MK1's.

Watch laidback lukes demo of the cdj 2000 nexus, he does that and it kind of opened my eyes for the amount of creativity these decks really allow you to do.