Breakdowns are getting way too long and ubiquitous again

[Hygro]

Remember trance in 2001? Remember this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/jonSUN/135.jpg

Iiiiiit's Baaaack


Then trance died. It's finally making a comeback after electro started cutting the bass to make more volume room for mids, making people realize that there's better mids-and-highs-house than bass music mastered like an n*sync track. But 10 years ago people started ditching trance because you could no longer dance to it. 4 minutes go by, BOOM 2 minute breakdown. Ok get your groove back, another 5 minutes BOOM 2 minute breakdown. Every track.

Part of what made electro so popular, when the sound in all its forms started around 2001ish, but really took off in 2005-2008 depending on where you lived, was that it went back to dance music's roots: raw synths, basslines, and strong drums to make you dance all night. You know, like funky house but for people who want that rave edge.

But then of course as the genre gets popular and people start looking for Sandstorm-esque super bangers, all the producers want to be the ones to have the big tension-release mega hit. Besides, as a producer I can tell you long ass breakdowns are fun to write.

Now we're at a point where all the dance music genres I liked are getting un-danceable. There will be 2 breakdowns in a 7 minute song for a total of 3 minutes. Sometimes 3. Most breakdowns are between 1 and 3 minutes long. I can't do 2-deck mixing anymore. I need a third deck just to loop intro kick drums under the breakdowns while I find the next track to play.

It sucks.

I want to play big room house sounds. I love where progressive house has gone, in terms of melodies and basslines. I still like to play electro. But I can't be playing an hour set only to have 15 minutes of hand waving for a crowd of 150 drunk 19 year olds in a dank ass warehouse at 11:07 pm.

When's the good shit coming back, like we had 4 years ago? Like when electro and french house kind of felt like the same shit and you could groove all night?

[DeadPhr0g]

Tiesto is my gawd. Period, comma. Yeah!

[Pavin]

I honestly feel like alot of techno is going in that exact direction.

[Ignotus]

better for me!!

[login]

Do you have listen latest Minilogue tracks?

They take the concept even further: 30 min of building tension. XD


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-kFpHHfcY

[Hygro]

I'll check it out later. If it's a 30 minute track it can't be cookie cutter :D

Ignotus, which part is better for you?

[Manu]

Funny you mentioned that Hygro, I was thinking about it a few days ago. Seems like it's all about the breakdown/buildup/drop combo again. How boring.



When's the good shit coming back, like we had 4 years ago? Like when electro and french house kind of felt like the same shit and you could groove all night?

That's just a matter of digging for tracks, still plenty of stuff out there, you just need to find it.

[howitzer]

Dude, youre a DJ. If you dont like the breakdowns, dont play them. You could spin faster or simply edit them out.

I agree with the 3 decks principle though. I dont spin Trance, I'm a dnb DJ, but most music is made along similar lines. I usually have 1-3 mins before the breakdown hits, by that point im mixing out deck 1 and mixing in deck 3 for the drop. Its a hell of a lot ot keep track of though, especially with the pressure of performing.

[Hygro]

Dude, youre a DJ. If you dont like the breakdowns, dont play them. You could spin faster or simply edit them out.

I agree with the 3 decks principle though. I dont spin Trance, I'm a dnb DJ, but most music is made along similar lines. I usually have 1-3 mins before the breakdown hits, by that point im mixing out deck 1 and mixing in deck 3 for the drop. Its a hell of a lot ot keep track of though, especially with the pressure of performing.
I used to do that but this is a problem. You are now largely playing the first half of songs. You are therefore, by convenience, playing the less energetic half. Additionally, you are depriving yourself the opportunity to keep a single track's mood for a full 5-8 minutes, which can be really nice in an entrancing setting (regardless of genre). And it's a lot harder to ride the pitch when one of the tables doesn't have a beat ;)

Now I could edit them out, but that's a hell of a hassle. I'd rather producers just stopped being prima donnas and kept their breakdowns to 30 seconds unless they had a damn good reason for it. I'm looking for a new genre.

[Hausgeist]

Obviously, you can start mixing in the new track when the first one begins to break down and mix through that ish. If you don't feel like starting a new track there, use a drum tool track just to keep the beats going until the ethereal wanking is done.

[Adzm00]

Part of what made electro so popular, when the sound in all its forms started around 2001ish, but really took off in 2005-2008 depending on where you lived

You are talking about that deadmau5 BS again aren't you.

[Ellissentials]

When's the good shit coming back, like we had 4 years ago?

I'm working on it ;) :lol:



I'd rather producers just stopped being prima donnas and kept their breakdowns to 30 seconds unless they had a damn good reason for it. I'm looking for a new genre.

I have yet to create a long ass breakdown, because I too do not care for them.

As for the new genre, I always have loved Breaks for many reasons. 1 reason being...I don't really find epic long breakdowns (ironically) in Breaks. What you will find is a shitload of creativity within the breakdown and a KILLER drop most of the time.

[howitzer]

I used to do that but this is a problem. You are now largely playing the first half of songs. You are therefore, by convenience, playing the less energetic half. Additionally, you are depriving yourself the opportunity to keep a single track's mood for a full 5-8 minutes, which can be really nice in an entrancing setting (regardless of genre). And it's a lot harder to ride the pitch when one of the tables doesn't have a beat ;)

Now I could edit them out, but that's a hell of a hassle. I'd rather producers just stopped being prima donnas and kept their breakdowns to 30 seconds unless they had a damn good reason for it. I'm looking for a new genre.

I guess the above bold points are something that dnb and trance do not have in common. Most breakdowns are 30secs or so and mostly the first half is the same as the second. Maybe you should try some dnb, ill shut up now.

[Hygro]

You are talking about that deadmau5 BS again aren't you.
Yes. Faxing Berlin was the height of the French house meets electro clash transition to electro house. Don't you know your techno history?

I'm working on it ;) :lol:




I have yet to create a long ass breakdown, because I too do not care for them.

As for the new genre, I always have loved Breaks for many reasons. 1 reason being...I don't really find epic long breakdowns (ironically) in Breaks. What you will find is a shitload of creativity within the breakdown and a KILLER drop most of the time.
Nice pun, I would have missed it. Breaks are fun, but don't quite move me the same. Maybe I should give it another chance. It was hella fun on NYE.
I guess the above bold points are something that dnb and trance do not have in common. Most breakdowns are 30secs or so and mostly the first half is the same as the second. Maybe you should try some dnb, ill shut up now.
D&B is awesome but there's not much of a scene here. Unfortunately John B style D&B isn't really the rage anymore either. I miss him.

[moyo wilde]

i warp and edit everything. if i am listening to a track and i find myself losing the beat i know the average dancer is going to lose interest during the breakdown, it gets edited down or cut out period

[mostapha]

You are now largely playing the first half of songs. You are therefore, by convenience, playing the less energetic half. Additionally, you are depriving yourself the opportunity to keep a single track's mood for a full 5-8 minutes, which can be really nice in an entrancing setting (regardless of genre). And it's a lot harder to ride the pitch when one of the tables doesn't have a beat ;)

I agree wholeheartedly with all of your artistic criticisms of the technique. The technical one…I say get over it and wave ride if you use a computer.

At any rate, here's a better solution:

http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/musical_instruments/detail-page/akai-mpc500-angled-450.jpg

Less than $500 and battery powered if need be. You'd be amazed how well hip hop grooves work under house breakdowns. I wish I had a recording of it, but I use/used Maschine like that. I didn't manage to record a set before I ditched Traktor and I don't have room on my table for it. I'm about to give up and just buy a music stand or something for it because the breakdowns in house are starting to get to me.


As for the new genre, I always have loved Breaks for many reasons. 1 reason being...I don't really find epic long breakdowns (ironically) in Breaks. What you will find is a shitload of creativity within the breakdown and a KILLER drop most of the time.

:stupid:

I wish I had more of an outlet for it. As it is, every time I buy it, I just feel guilty for spending so much on tracks that I probably won't get to play.


i warp and edit everything. if i am listening to a track and i find myself losing the beat i know the average dancer is going to lose interest during the breakdown, it gets edited down or cut out period

I did that for a while. Then I stopped spinning trance.

[MeowMix]

I dont really play a lot of electro but the house/tech house ive been getting does not have that issue. Most of the long, borderline un-danceable breakdowns that i hear are in chill prog house songs that i would play as warm up or lounge sets.

[login]

Faxing berlin was basically trance and his best song so far.

I see trance having two kind of structures the hypnotic never ending build ups and the build up - breakdown one, the second can become as cheesy as Justin Beiber. It's all about "easy melodies".

[Hygro]

I agree wholeheartedly with all of your artistic criticisms of the technique. The technical one…I say get over it and wave ride if you use a computer.

At any rate, here's a better solution:

http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/musical_instruments/detail-page/akai-mpc500-angled-450.jpg

Less than $500 and battery powered if need be. You'd be amazed how well hip hop grooves work under house breakdowns. I wish I had a recording of it, but I use/used Maschine like that. I didn't manage to record a set before I ditched Traktor and I don't have room on my table for it. I'm about to give up and just buy a music stand or something for it because the breakdowns in house are starting to get to me.

.
Blue: good call. I often in my own productions try to use breakbeats in place of no beats. Kind of like trance from the late 90s before they just decided to cut the beat entirely. Using a sampler and hip hop beats is probably really good advice. Not sure I want to lug extra gear yet, but something to consider. I'm still running CDs.

Pink: yeah seriously. Not okay.

[mr_ragz]

I still love my trance but I have had the same issue with finding music that is danceable. Much of the time when I am just patient and find tracks that dont have the breakdowns (YES! they do exist)

or just throw it in to ableton, warp it, chop it out, export it to wav and convert to mp3. Its about a 10 minute process per song, so its not that bad.

[mostapha]

Blue: good call. I often in my own productions try to use breakbeats in place of no beats. Kind of like trance from the late 90s before they just decided to cut the beat entirely. Using a sampler and hip hop beats is probably really good advice. Not sure I want to lug extra gear yet, but something to consider. I'm still running CDs.

Pink: yeah seriously. Not okay.

Yeah. It's not so much that it's a sampler but a sample-based groove box. It's just one of the cheapest that actually makes good sounds. There are a lot of them that work.

For most situations, a 3rd deck works okay. I just like being able to do things like play a beat or use a step sequencer (in Maschine…I'm told the MPC step sequencers suck, and I'd imagine they really do on the 500 with only 12 pads) to add in a snare/click roll instead of beat-mashing a whole track. I just want my 3rd deck to be a groove box of some kind.

[l0ckd0wn]

Hygro, I love you man... But I think you over-think some things sometimes. For instance, your comment on the first half of songs being the less energetic; maybe, but not always and this again comes back to you being the DJ.

There is like 20x things I could put here, but all of the thoughts revolve around one thing; mixing the way you want it to sound, regardless the way it sounds. For instance I mix a lot with the bridges and middle beat portions of tracks because they have more content and layering is more audible. I don't have to do this; I could just mix intro/outro. However this is my choice, just as you mixing is yours.

There is so much content out there sometimes I get lost in the wash of "new" or "exclusive" or "fresh new tracks" and really I'm looking for "something with a good melody and a solid beat, maybe even a key change."

Simply, if you are the wizard behind the decks, work your music magic to make it sound like you want by playing what you want. :shrug:

In DJing; you are what you sound like. So you can either be great or be dull, but the choice is yours.

[RDRCK]

Hygro, you're just getting old man. Welcome to my world ;)

I suggest either editing breakdowns to a length you are more happy/comfortable with, or just switching to a genre that doesn't suck :P

[KLH]

Is this still happening?

[Hygro]

I dunno but yesterday I was listening to Klaus Schulze's early works so.. the breakdowns, they got me

http://img15.laughinggif.com/pic/HTTP3N0cmVhbTEuZ2lmc291cC5jb20vdmlldy8xMjQ3MzQvdGh yaWxsZXItZGFuY2Utby5naWYlog.gif

[Crushgroove]

I feel like that also... Well what seems to be popular here in Houston atm is bass house. Extremely simple repetitive melodies (if any) LOOOOONG ass break down/ build only to drop back into the same old repetitive boring ass loop. Like, CHANGE up the bassline, add some instruments/ percussion... I don't know. I'm just saying, there's a TON of really boring shit out there. lol
I understand a track like that has it's place, but NOT A 2hr set of the SAME stuff.
Just gotta get creative in your set building / track selection. House music has a LARGE spectrum, so use it! and throw in some breaks while you're at it! ;)

[steveryan]

One way to get around this is to just set a hot cue at the end of the breakdown and simply skip over it right as it starts. I get annoyed with long breakdowns also. When they're over 96 beats it's just too long. Set the hot cue and skip over it. Done.

[alazydj]

only good for radio/study beats

[Hygro]

Hygro, I love you man... But I think you over-think some things sometimes. For instance, your comment on the first half of songs being the less energetic; maybe, but not always and this again comes back to you being the DJ.

There is like 20x things I could put here, but all of the thoughts revolve around one thing; mixing the way you want it to sound, regardless the way it sounds. For instance I mix a lot with the bridges and middle beat portions of tracks because they have more content and layering is more audible. I don't have to do this; I could just mix intro/outro. However this is my choice, just as you mixing is yours.

There is so much content out there sometimes I get lost in the wash of "new" or "exclusive" or "fresh new tracks" and really I'm looking for "something with a good melody and a solid beat, maybe even a key change."

Simply, if you are the wizard behind the decks, work your music magic to make it sound like you want by playing what you want. :shrug:

In DJing; you are what you sound like. So you can either be great or be dull, but the choice is yours.

This was the truth.

[steveryan]

Went to a club last night and spent a little while hanging out with the headliner.

We were talking about how much the tech has changed over the years. I was saying that it's pretty amazing how these new players can loop little sections on the fly and if you wanted to, you could loop the end of the outgoing record and let it play over the first breakdown on the incoming track. And then I asked him what he thought of all these long ass breakdowns and having many breakdowns in a single song.

He said it's kinda ridiculous how long the breakdowns can be. I asked him how he deals with them. His answer?

He puts the track into Ableton and reorganizes the structure. He basically chops it up, moves parts of it around, adds a few things, extends some parts and shortens others. None of the stuff he plays is off the shelf. He puts the track together the way he wants to in order to play the way he want's to play.

How ya like that?

[efinque]

He puts the track into Ableton and reorganizes the structure. He basically chops it up, moves parts of it around, adds a few things, extends some parts and shortens others. None of the stuff he plays is off the shelf. He puts the track together the way he wants to in order to play the way he want's to play.

The amount of preparation needed for that is ridiculous.

I'd say roughly by the time you get a solid 1 hour set done with a bit of variation too you'd have produced an original track..

[steveryan]

The amount of preparation needed for that is ridiculous.

I'd say roughly by the time you get a solid 1 hour set done with a bit of variation too you'd have produced an original track..


He said that it was suggested to him by DJ Dan who's been using Ableton in this way for years. I'm sure it does take a lot of work, but you could put some awesome sets together when you structure the songs the way you want.

The issue I run into is these long breakdowns right towards the beginning of the track. So, I either have to mix the track from the beginning and just let the breakdown play, or set a cue point at the beginning or end of it and mix from there to avoid it.

Looping the outgoing track and using it to cover up the breakdown sounds like a cool idea, but I'd rather just remove it and fill the space with beats from another part of the song.

[Hygro]

Yeah if you're headlining a circuit it would make sense to spend some time making your tracks right.

[djshire]

A proper breakdown should only last as long as necessary....for everyones raised arms to fall off.

[steveryan]

........The issue I run into is these long breakdowns right towards the beginning of the track. So, I either have to mix the track from the beginning and just let the breakdown play, or set a cue point at the beginning or end of it and mix from there to avoid it.


Just wanted to mention that I found a better work-around for this issue.

Usually, at the end of the first breakdown, the producers main idea or theme drops with it. So I decided to just set a hot cue 128 beats before the drop. So now this breakdown just plays underneath the current track. I also find a good mix-point to get it started which is usually near the end of the track 128 beats before the first sign of an outro.

Since it's a breakdown, I turn the bass to flat when it starts (Cautiously if there's a heavy bassline in there). As it drops, I touch the HP filter a little bit on the outgoing track to reduce it's bass kick, which allows the incoming bass kick to take over on the drop. From there, I slowly take the level down bit by bit on the outgoing track while doing minor reductions to the bass, mids and LP filter. Helps to do these little adjustments near the first beat of a bar but not totally necessary. The HP filter is actually pretty sweet when you use it as a tool rather than an effect.

That's one way (The main way for me) of doing it and it seems to work well.

[Era 7]

A proper breakdown should only last as long as necessary....for everyones raised arms to fall off.

You're not a real DJ, if your crowd can still raise their arms above shoulder level by the time you finish your set. Change my mind.

[Cybotron]

i threw a chapstick in the DJ booth in Matter during Sven Vaths set because the breakdown was so long and it did my head in. I wasnt aiming for the decks in particular but it made the record skip.

True story